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kivo
02-02-2013, 01:46 PM
Are we far enough from the release yet where we don't have to tag these as spoilers? I mean if its a month and you're not on the ball and you're going to message boards...

OK there's the buffer space.

So was Taim turned 13x13 style like the Black Ajahs said was going to happen in tSR or not?

I don't really anything in the book saying he wasn't turned. And he looked wrong to Bashere who had met him before.

It would make sense that he would employ that tactic with such vigor if it had been done to him.

I don't recall where this was ruled out except that he was clearly an effective tool for the Shadow and people who go through the turning are not as effective as they could be if they truly put their heart in the cause. But that just means he might have had even more potential, not that he wasn't turned.

Marie Curie 7
02-02-2013, 01:55 PM
Are we far enough from the release yet where we don't have to tag these as spoilers? I mean if its a month and you're not on the ball and you're going to message boards...

OK there's the buffer space.

We will let you know when the spoiler restrictions for thread titles and opening posts of threads are lifted. Until then, thanks for following the rules. ;)

Dom
02-02-2013, 02:27 PM
Are we far enough from the release yet where we don't have to tag these as spoilers? I mean if its a month and you're not on the ball and you're going to message boards...

OK there's the buffer space.

So was Taim turned 13x13 style like the Black Ajahs said was going to happen in tSR or not?

Joyia could only have lied. She was held by her Oaths unlike Amico, and could betray no plan of the Black Ajah.

So that Joyia claiming the BA planned to capture Taim and turn him pretty much makes fact that Joyia came up with a believable lie to send the girls on a fool's errand, not being aware of any such effort of the Shadow.

Liandrin and company had orders to proceed to Tanchico.

It doesn't mean the Shadow didn't have other plans for Taim Joyia didn't know the first thing about (it's sort of a downside of inventing believable lies.. .you can fall very close to the truth!). In fact, we know now that later on Demandred recruited Taim for the Shadow. From clues in the books, it seems likely black sisters among those sent by Elaida either helped breaking him out, or to cover up Demandred's operations. Mesaana was no doubt involved in some way, as Alviarin frustrated Elaida's efforts to recapture Taim.


I don't really anything in the book saying he wasn't turned.

What about Demandred stating he recuited him for the Shadow? Then later thinking, when he sees his hatred of Rand, that Taim always had shown promise?

That'd be one hell of a convoluted way to refer to having turned Taim 13 x 13, if you ask me.

Demandred also speaks scathingly of Taim using that process as "stealing dreadlords". It's very suggestive that Demandred thought poorly of the method, or of forcing people to join the Shadow. Demandred like Lanfear is too proud and confident in his leadership quality/charisma to want anyone other than people joining him willingly. He's no Graendal or Moghedien.

It's pretty much ruled out Taim was turned, all the more when you throw in Lanfear's opinion that this makes very inferior pawns, and the others's comments that these people are essentially dead, much like Gray Men.

It's also terribly visible in their dead, fish-like eyes.

It's not really conceivable this would not have been spotted by Rand, and the likes of Pevara.

And he looked wrong to Bashere who had met him before.

Jordan explained this convincingly before, and there's no reason to doubt he didn't tell us the simple truth. The proud False Dragon Bashere had seen in Saldaea wasn't the emaciated/beardless man he saw in Caemlyn, after Taim has had a very rough patch escaping him for weeks.

It would make sense that he would employ that tactic with such vigor if it had been done to him.

RJ's opinion given through Isam seems to contradict that notion. Isam commented that the turned Red-Veils had strong feelings about the turnings, and avoided those who performed it when they came to town.