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Cortar
02-19-2013, 03:10 PM
This just hit me yesterday.

Why are the Forsaken so surprised about the Bonding between an Aes Sedai and her Warder?

To me, it sounds almost exactly like the bonding between Trollocs and Fades. The Fade can force the Trollocs to do stuff. When the Fade dies the Trollocs go crazy. Etc.

GonzoTheGreat
02-20-2013, 03:07 AM
Aginor and Semirhage (and others too, maybe) had tried to figure out how Myrddraal do the things they do, and come up blank. What we've read was only about the "moving through shadows", but I suspect they had also tried to figure out other tricks. A Forsaken who could bond a bunch of Trollocs to him (or even better, a hundred Fades) would find that quite useful, I think.

So the Forsaken would simply not expect those half trained primitives to succeed where they had failed.
Then again, it is also possible that to them the differences between the two bonds were bigger than the similarities, and that they don't expect innovation from idiots like Elaida and Liandrin.

Tomp
02-20-2013, 04:44 AM
If they are bonded in a similar way as AS + W then perhaps a difference could be that Trollocs and Fades are bonded by the True power in some way.

Zombie Sammael
02-20-2013, 06:08 AM
If they are bonded in a similar way as AS + W then perhaps a difference could be that Trollocs and Fades are bonded by the True power in some way.

Well, there is this from RJ:


The True Power is reason that Ishamael's corpse had no eyes, just as it was the reason that his eyes had been caverns of flame, but it is not precisely the reason that Fades have no eyes.

That "not precisely" suggests that Myrddraal cannot or at least do not channel the True Power. If they did, then it would be accurate to suggest that that is "precisely" the reason they have no eyes, given the heavy symbolism associated with eyes, blindness, and the Shadow in general. The fact that they don't have eyes is just another example of the idea of those in the dark being unreceptive to the light, like Ishamael's eyes as caverns of flame, or the Darkfriend at Maradon who tried to scratch his own eyes out.

fdsaf3
02-25-2013, 12:05 PM
I've always sort of assumed that Fades being Eyeless is sort of a literal interpretation of the idiom that the eyes are the windows to the soul.

Zombie Sammael
02-25-2013, 07:04 PM
I've always sort of assumed that Fades being Eyeless is sort of a literal interpretation of the idiom that the eyes are the windows to the soul.

Eyes are a pretty important symbol throughout the series, and that idiom is a big part of it. There's a thread I started about it somewhere; I'm kinda-sorta working on an essay about it.

Dom
02-25-2013, 07:57 PM
Aginor and Semirhage (and others too, maybe) had tried to figure out how Myrddraal do the things they do, and come up blank. What we've read was only about the "moving through shadows", but I suspect they had also tried to figure out other tricks. A Forsaken who could bond a bunch of Trollocs to him (or even better, a hundred Fades) would find that quite useful, I think.

So the Forsaken would simply not expect those half trained primitives to succeed where they had failed.
Then again, it is also possible that to them the differences between the two bonds were bigger than the similarities, and that they don't expect innovation from idiots like Elaida and Liandrin.

Do we know for sure the Myrddraal have a trick to link with/bond Trollocs?

I've always suspected it's not choice or the result of a trick performed by a Fade before going to battle, that some Fades are rather born with a connection to closely related Trollocs.

It always seemed.. .pretty random.

Cortar
03-19-2013, 02:37 PM
Do we know for sure the Myrddraal have a trick to link with/bond Trollocs?

I've always suspected it's not choice or the result of a trick performed by a Fade before going to battle, that some Fades are rather born with a connection to closely related Trollocs.

It always seemed.. .pretty random.

Although its from Rand's POV and may not be accurate, its something

From TSR
Fades did not trust trollocs so sometimes they linked with them in a way that Rand did not understand.

Though after thinking about it, this still could mean its something that happens at the creation of fades and trollocs