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Cortar
02-21-2013, 08:03 PM
I don't get why, in the WOT Universe, Immortality is such an allure to DFs. I mean, they literally have proof that people are reborn. I understand power, but immortality? They basically already have that!

Weird Harold
02-21-2013, 08:51 PM
I don't get why, in the WOT Universe, Immortality is such an allure to DFs. I mean, they literally have proof that people are reborn. I understand power, but immortality? They basically already have that!

Your soul is reborn as a different person. That's not immortality to someone selfish enough to want to live forever; that's passing your "karma" down to your heirs.

Zombie Sammael
02-21-2013, 09:49 PM
This quote from RJ is enlightening:

Everybody fears death because the being that is reborn, while possessing the same soul, will not be the same person. The fear is simple. I will cease to exist. Someone else will exist, bearing my soul. But I will cease. I have met many believers in reincarnation, and most of them seem to fear death just as much as anyone else.

It is to be noted that many answers can be found in the interview database ("WOT Search" at the top of Theoryland, below the login). That said the question opens up possibilities for discussion.

In the past, I've humorously compared WOT to Dr Who, but in this instance I feel the comparison is apt. The Doctor has a form of longevity, if not outright immortality, as a result of his ability to regenerate, change his appearance and personality upon receiving some traumatic injury and thus evade death. But the new Doctor is not the same as the old Doctor. The Tenth Doctor outright states that it's some other man with his memories, "It won't be me". This is roughly how reincarnation works in the Wheel Of Time; some other person will have your soul, and might sometimes have a glimpse of your memories or personalities, but at the point of death, whatever it is that is "you" ceases to be. You become somebody else.

The best example of this is Rand and Lews Therin, but to avoid spoiling AMOL I can't go into as much detail about that as I'd like. Suffice it to say that there ARE answers to this question, of a kind, therein.

Cortar
02-21-2013, 10:18 PM
This quote from RJ is enlightening:



It is to be noted that many answers can be found in the interview database ("WOT Search" at the top of Theoryland, below the login). That said the question opens up possibilities for discussion.

In the past, I've humorously compared WOT to Dr Who, but in this instance I feel the comparison is apt. The Doctor has a form of longevity, if not outright immortality, as a result of his ability to regenerate, change his appearance and personality upon receiving some traumatic injury and thus evade death. But the new Doctor is not the same as the old Doctor. The Tenth Doctor outright states that it's some other man with his memories, "It won't be me". This is roughly how reincarnation works in the Wheel Of Time; some other person will have your soul, and might sometimes have a glimpse of your memories or personalities, but at the point of death, whatever it is that is "you" ceases to be. You become somebody else.

The best example of this is Rand and Lews Therin, but to avoid spoiling AMOL I can't go into as much detail about that as I'd like. Suffice it to say that there ARE answers to this question, of a kind, therein.

Ya I've heard that, but if your "soul" isn't you, then what is?

Ieyasu
02-21-2013, 10:35 PM
Ya I've heard that, but if your "soul" isn't you, then what is?

Your ego. The "I" in the following statements:

I read AMoL.
I made a phone call.
I am me.


;)

eht slat meit
02-21-2013, 11:24 PM
Given that the DO-granted rebirths are based on the whim of said creature, I suspect that immortality would be far preferable. Doing it the natural way means losing your prior set of memories unless you're lucky enough to go nuts or be the Dragon Reborn.

Daekyras
02-22-2013, 04:00 AM
Your ego. The "I" in the following statements:

I read AMoL.
I made a phone call.
I am me.


;)

I think therefor I am...

Cortar
02-22-2013, 04:23 AM
Your ego. The "I" in the following statements:

I read AMoL.
I made a phone call.
I am me.


;)

I always thought that people who believed in souls thought that THAT was the soul, the consciousness behind the eyes so to speak.

Weird Harold
02-22-2013, 08:47 AM
I always thought that people who believed in souls thought that THAT was the soul, the consciousness behind the eyes so to speak.
The Soul is the foundation upon which the personality is built. Those who desire immortality want to preserve the personality, not perpetuate the archetype.

GonzoTheGreat
02-22-2013, 09:04 AM
But, as Rand figured out, it is always the same personality too, isn't it?
If it would be a new personality, then LTT and Rand wouldn't have been the same person, after all.

Weird Harold
02-22-2013, 12:09 PM
But, as Rand figured out, it is always the same personality too, isn't it?
If it would be a new personality, then LTT and Rand wouldn't have been the same person, after all.

RJ disagrees with you:


Everybody fears death because the being that is reborn, while possessing the same soul, will not be the same person. The fear is simple. I will cease to exist. Someone else will exist, bearing my soul. But I will cease. I have met many believers in reincarnation, and most of them seem to fear death just as much as anyone else.

Rand is a special case, with access to ALL memories of a past life, and reborn according to Prophecy. Birgitte's various incarnations are a better example; always an Archer, but a different person each time.