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klye
03-08-2013, 04:57 PM
So i read a few comments that the creator spoke in AMOL in chapter 23. Is this confirmed? I cant find it in the interview database.

ckparrothead
03-08-2013, 05:11 PM
It's confirmed.

It also happened in The Eye of the World when Rand popped his head into Tarwin's Gap and started killing some trollocs. Something along the lines of an all caps voice saying "IT IS NOT HERE"

As he entered Shayol Ghul that all caps voice spoke up again and Rand thought something along the lines of, "a voice he had been waiting to hear again since.." and I think Moiraine and Nynaeve heard it too, some reference to their eyes popping out of their heads or something to that effect.

I thought someone in another thread brought up a good point how during the fight in the void with the Dark One, at one point Rand started speaking in all caps to Shai'tan. I'd have to go back and look but that fits along the lines of what I was thinking that Rand (post-Moridin) and Nakomi are both the two male and female faces of the Creator, no longer threads of the pattern but Creators of the pattern.

Rand al'Fain
03-08-2013, 06:32 PM
It's confirmed.

It also happened in The Eye of the World when Rand popped his head into Tarwin's Gap and started killing some trollocs. Something along the lines of an all caps voice saying "IT IS NOT HERE"

As he entered Shayol Ghul that all caps voice spoke up again and Rand thought something along the lines of, "a voice he had been waiting to hear again since.." and I think Moiraine and Nynaeve heard it too, some reference to their eyes popping out of their heads or something to that effect.

I thought someone in another thread brought up a good point how during the fight in the void with the Dark One, at one point Rand started speaking in all caps to Shai'tan. I'd have to go back and look but that fits along the lines of what I was thinking that Rand (post-Moridin) and Nakomi are both the two male and female faces of the Creator, no longer threads of the pattern but Creators of the pattern.

Really? I was thinking they were more like the avatars (or at least Rand is) of the Creator. The person who helps keep things flowing, and free will going as well.

Dom
03-08-2013, 07:22 PM
I was thinking that Rand (post-Moridin) and Nakomi are both the two male and female faces of the Creator, no longer threads of the pattern but Creators of the pattern.

It's fairly unlikely given that

a)Harriet was pretty insistent that Brandon did not make Rand be more than human (he had to convince her it would turn out to be tricks to put the "super Rand" stuff in TOM)

and

b) if Rand is a face or even avatar of the Creator, it cheapens massively his accomplishments. He's always been depicted as the Champion, the very human champion.

c) Jordan himself when asked about parallels to Jesus answered Rand was to him more a "cultural hero" like Arthur, Charlemagne etc. rather than a religious/messianic figure.

suttree
03-09-2013, 08:23 PM
It's fairly unlikely given that

a)Harriet was pretty insistent that Brandon did not make Rand be more than human (he had to convince her it would turn out to be tricks to put the "super Rand" stuff in TOM)


Do we have a quote on that Dom? Thanks!

Southpaw2012
03-12-2013, 08:30 PM
Q: Did The Creator speak in ALL CAPS at least once or twice?

Brandon: The same voice spoke in all caps in the series.


According to that, it makes it seem like it was the Dark One the whole time...

Zombie Sammael
03-12-2013, 09:00 PM
Q: Did The Creator speak in ALL CAPS at least once or twice?

Brandon: The same voice spoke in all caps in the series.


According to that, it makes it seem like it was the Dark One the whole time...

That's a very Aes Sedai answer though.

GonzoTheGreat
03-13-2013, 06:21 AM
Brandon: The same voice spoke in all caps in the series.
Nakomi!

Nakomi is the Voice of both the Creator and the Dark One. They signal to her, using omens no one else notices (moose, bears, bats, rabbits and such) to let her know what words she should speak.

Zombie Sammael
03-13-2013, 06:22 AM
Nakomi!

Nakomi is the Voice of both the Creator and the Dark One. They signal to her, using omens no one else notices (moose, bears, bats, rabbits and such) to let her know what words she should speak.

Tuon noticed, but she sucks at interpreting them.

Hugh the Hand
03-13-2013, 11:00 AM
Dom, and anyone else with an answer

I can see some of the tricks Rand played on others being explained. IE using the Force, I mean the OP to feel blood pressure rising etc, to see if someone is lying. Using the fatman angreal to help defeat the trolloc hords. And using the Song to make stuff grow. Further, even the bags of food going bad, all but the ones not opened, could just be luck.

But how is he parting clouds? Making food that tasted bitter, ie tea, all the sudden taste ok? Why was Andor better for food then other places? How was he able to have a bubble of the Light, blocking his madness? Did we get explainations for all this?

If we did, I missed it, which is very possible. But it seems to me that much of what we saw was beyond a normal human in TOM and Brandon kinda tried to backtrack a little in AMOL.

suttree
03-13-2013, 12:15 PM
Q: Did The Creator speak in ALL CAPS at least once or twice?

Brandon: The same voice spoke in all caps in the series.


According to that, it makes it seem like it was the Dark One the whole time...

Nope. Look a bit more closely.

But how is he parting clouds? Making food that tasted bitter, ie tea, all the sudden taste ok? Why was Andor better for food then other places? How was he able to have a bubble of the Light, blocking his madness? Did we get explainations for all this?


For the food and health of the land we have known for a long time that "There can be no health in us, nor any good thing grow, for the land is one with the Dragon Reborn, and he is one with the land." It parallels the old Fisher King myth.

As for the rest when he was growing worse with his "Dark Rand" persona he was seen with a dark aura around him. Post DM epiphany it makes sense that the opposite would be true with light.

Hugh the Hand
03-14-2013, 03:45 PM
For Rand/the Dragon to be one with the land, other then in a symbolic sense, would make him more than human, right?

So again, that seems to conflcit with the backtracking in AMOL.

And this is not Brandon bashing, it could have been in the notes, and just hard to convey.

suttree
03-14-2013, 06:24 PM
For Rand/the Dragon to be one with the land, other then in a symbolic sense, would make him more than human, right?

So again, that seems to conflcit with the backtracking in AMOL.

And this is not Brandon bashing, it could have been in the notes, and just hard to convey.

Well he is the DR, CoL so in that sense he is a special soul. We do know the "Jesus Rand" aspect was played up on purpose only to be downgraded later. It wasn't a retcon, it was a conscious decision. Whether it was handled well is a different discussion.

finnssss
03-20-2013, 04:51 AM
Dom, and anyone else with an answer

I can see some of the tricks Rand played on others being explained. IE using the Force, I mean the OP to feel blood pressure rising etc, to see if someone is lying. Using the fatman angreal to help defeat the trolloc hords. And using the Song to make stuff grow. Further, even the bags of food going bad, all but the ones not opened, could just be luck.

But how is he parting clouds? Making food that tasted bitter, ie tea, all the sudden taste ok? Why was Andor better for food then other places? How was he able to have a bubble of the Light, blocking his madness? Did we get explainations for all this?

If we did, I missed it, which is very possible. But it seems to me that much of what we saw was beyond a normal human in TOM and Brandon kinda tried to backtrack a little in AMOL.

The food thing was from being Ta'veren.
Rand's effect was just that much more wide-spread and more complete than that of Mat or Perrin.

Rand's effect, post VoG, would completely reverse any corruption in his presence. Mat and Perrin would only hold off the corruption from becoming complete.
No where in the books does something completely spoil in Mat's or Perrin's presence and we also have this...

ToM-2:
"Tell me, my Lord," Turne said as his group began to hike to the line of refugees. "Do you really have food?"
"We do," Perrin said. "I just said so."
"And it doesn't spoil after a night left alone?"
"Course it doesn't," Perrin said sternly. "Not if you keep it right." Some of their grain might have weevils in it, but it was edible. The man seemed to find that incredible, as if Perrin had said his wagons would soon sprout wings and fly off for the mountains.

mogi67
03-25-2013, 05:08 PM
The food thing was from being Ta'veren.
Rand's effect was just that much more wide-spread and more complete than that of Mat or Perrin.

Rand's effect, post VoG, would completely reverse any corruption in his presence. Mat and Perrin would only hold off the corruption from becoming complete.
No where in the books does something completely spoil in Mat's or Perrin's presence and we also have this...

Whoa! That's so cool, I never realized that re: Mat and Perrin

Weiramon
03-26-2013, 07:29 PM
Pshaw, you may as well claim that belief and order gives strength (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5912).

suttree
03-26-2013, 07:36 PM
Pshaw, you may as well claim that belief and order gives strength (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5912).

Indeed. We see it in the Seanchan held lands as well.

fionwe1987
03-26-2013, 07:41 PM
Indeed. We see it in the Seanchan held lands as well.

And we see it in Tar Valon. Egwene says several unspoiled caches were found after she was raised. But that had stopped pretty soon. That's because Egwene's victory was hamstrung fairly soon by Mesaana's continuing presence.

Master Ablar
04-04-2013, 05:14 PM
And we see it in Tar Valon. Egwene says several unspoiled caches were found after she was raised. But that had stopped pretty soon. That's because Egwene's victory was hamstrung fairly soon by Mesaana's continuing presence.

Wasn't that just due to Rand showing up in Tar Valon?

When was it mentioned that unspoiled food was found in Seanchan lands? Even Perrin's good had weevils in it if I recall correctly.

Rand al'Fain
04-05-2013, 03:47 AM
Wasn't that just due to Rand showing up in Tar Valon?

When was it mentioned that unspoiled food was found in Seanchan lands? Even Perrin's good had weevils in it if I recall correctly.

Weevils yes, but not spoiled. The weevils could be filtered out, or, less pleasing, be eaten, but the food was still good though.

Master Ablar
04-05-2013, 06:58 AM
Weevils yes, but not spoiled. The weevils could be filtered out, or, less pleasing, be eaten, but the food was still good though.

That's already different from the food around Rand though. The grain in Bandar Eban was perfect if I recall correctly.

Rand al'Fain
04-06-2013, 03:01 AM
That's already different from the food around Rand though. The grain in Bandar Eban was perfect if I recall correctly.

Wasn't saying anything about that, just pointing out that Perrin's food, other than the weevils, was perfectly good to eat.