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SauceyBlueConfetti
04-30-2013, 09:55 AM
I am tired of the only "new" comments being in the literary pettiness....errrr, critique, thread.

Let us find a new topic. I don't think I will be spilling any beans if I mention that Brandon smiled and said he was suprised that folks weren't asking him the right questions about the end of the book. I took that as we all have fallen for the magician trick of ...look, over here, here, HERE, while I do this over HERE.

So what are we missing? I think a re-evaluation of the end of the book is in order.

What we seem to focus on:

The pipe (eyeroll, let it go folks)
The body swap
Nakomi
Who is a hero, who isn't
Did Lan die, or not?



What are we missing???? I plan on doing another re-read of the whole book starting this week. I am contemplating doing a 3 book re-read though...because in Brandon's smiley, evil little mind, is the 'end' the last 3 books together???

GonzoTheGreat
04-30-2013, 10:13 AM
When is the Dragon going to break the world?
"There is never fighting in Shara, Rand al’Thor. It is said the Trolloc Wars infested them" – Trollocs had entered the Aiel Waste too; since then the Trolloc name for the Aiel Waste was the Dying Ground – "but if there has been one battle since, no word of it has come to the tradeholds. Not much word of anything outside the holdwalls does come inside. They say their land has always been one, not many as here, always at peace. When you came from Rhuidean as the Car’a’carn, word of you spread, and of your title among the wetlanders here. The Dragon Reborn. Word traveled to the tradeholds along the Great Rift and the Cliffs of Dawn." Rhuarc’s eyes were calm and steady; this did not trouble him. "Now word comes back across the Three-fold Land. There is fighting in Shara, and Sharamen in the tradeholds ask when the Dragon Reborn will Break the World."
Which House uses the symbol of the Red Herring, and what happened to them?

Ieyasu
04-30-2013, 11:50 AM
I am tired of the only "new" comments being in the literary pettiness....errrr, critique, thread

Well...if we all weren't feeding the fanboy troll....

Maybe there will be something else worth talking about when the Unfettered anthology comes out with he river of.dreams...or pool of nightmares....whatever it is called...supposed to be released sometime this month....

Tollingtoy
04-30-2013, 03:59 PM
What is missing from the ending beyond those pieces you mentioned? What are people looking for exactly?


And thank you, that "Literary Critque" thread is awful!

Ishara
04-30-2013, 05:25 PM
LOL - theres still LOTS worth talking about. I feel like the relative silence is sort of like the giant sigh of completion. I'm starting a re-read of the series soon, and imagine that lots of stuff will fall into place while others will jump to the forefront in terms of relevance. Or not, but I look forward to finding out! Like, maybe Graendal will finally become intuitively obvious to me! ;)

In terms of not asking the right questions...

- where did Olver go?
- what happens with the Seanchan?
- The Black Tower: where and how will they establish themselves?

Interesting questions for which we will never get answers but are fun to speculate about anyways:
- will Rand ever touch base with Galad?
- the Boarderlands: how do they redistribute the land amongst themselves?
- will Aviendha's children still be born with the innate ability to channel right away?

And for those who didn't know, it's worth mentioning that EVERYONE (including Brandon, from the sounds of it) who beta read mentioned the ridiculousness of the bloody pipe, and it was still included. Think on that. ;)

Terez
05-01-2013, 01:57 AM
LOL - theres still LOTS worth talking about. I feel like the relative silence is sort of like the giant sigh of completion.
It's not for me. I just don't have any particular interest in discussing the ending, and none of the questions I've asked Brandon have had anything to do with the end at all, really. Not sure what questions he wants people to ask, but either way it won't be me.

Daekyras
05-01-2013, 11:03 AM
It's not for me. I just don't have any particular interest in discussing the ending, and none of the questions I've asked Brandon have had anything to do with the end at all, really. Not sure what questions he wants people to ask, but either way it won't be me.

Why not Terez?

Did you dislike it that much? ;)

Terez
05-01-2013, 12:11 PM
Eh, partly. There were bits I didn't like, but even concerning the bits I did like, I just don't really feel the need to discuss them. The Rand/Moridin merge for example is one of the more interesting aspects of the ending to me, but one of the least interesting to discuss because of most people's hard-held assumptions about what happened there.

SauceyBlueConfetti
05-01-2013, 01:20 PM
Was Lanfear's cour'souvra returned to her posession as was Moghedien's? I am blanking on this.

If not, then her death (by neck snap! such a sound in my head!) was a fairly impactful event in the fight between Moridin and Rand.

Ishara
05-01-2013, 04:27 PM
Wait, why?

If she had it, then dead is dead, right? If she didn't, then Rand had a fancy (disgusting) piece of new jewelry? What am I missing?

Tollingtoy
05-01-2013, 04:33 PM
I agree, the parts in the ending that left questions are such that we really won't know what happened anyway. I don't think the pipe really has much of an impact on the story one way or the other.

Nakomi is something I am curious about, did anyone see my theory that she could be Tigraine? I wondered what those more versed than I thought of it

SauceyBlueConfetti
05-01-2013, 07:03 PM
Wait, why?

If she had it, then dead is dead, right? If she didn't, then Rand had a fancy (disgusting) piece of new jewelry? What am I missing?

I always saw it as a big of a reverse bond/compulsion tool. I would think Moridin, if holding it still around his neck, would have felt her die. Not a mind tearing event like a warder. But enough of a disturbance to ruffle him briefly as he held Callandor

Zombie Sammael
05-01-2013, 08:30 PM
Part of the problem is that many of the plot points which are worth discussing are also those best left open to interpretation. I'm quite clear on what I think happened with the pipe, the circumstances of Lan's resurrection, and the nature of Nakomi, for example, but at this stage, I really feel no need to argue with others about my interpretation of these events. To have someone tell me I'm wrong about any of them, even because of what Brandon or other members of Team Jordan have said, would simply diminish my experience, and reading AMOL was such a powerful and lasting experience for me that I really don't want it diminished.

Fortunately that still leaves us with literary criticism, and by this I don't mean the sort of nonsense going on in the "Literary Critique" thread that really has nothing at all to do with critique and far more to do with bashing one or another of the parties involved in creating the work. I mean the sort of in-depth discussion of the themes and symbolism of the work that Linda at 13th Depository has engaged in so well. I am quite sure that as Theorylanders and HCFFs we are capable of turning our intelligence and creativity away from the plot and towards to kind of study the Wheel Of Time as a series actually deserves, and yet is unlikely to receive. Unfortunately, this type of discussion is largely dependent, to my mind, upon the completion of thorough rereads of the series in its complete form and including AMOL, in order to bring us to a full understanding. Then, of course, the flamewars can begin again.

As such I say go forth, ye Theorylanders, and reread! Think not on the pipe at the end of AMOL, but on pipes as a symbol in the series! Worry not about Nakomi, but on the sources and influences that created the Aiel as a people! For in these topics lies the future of this fandom.

Ishara
05-03-2013, 11:17 PM
Tollingtoy - I did see it, I haven't ignored it so much as I'm trying to find the time to sit and wrap my head around my thoughts to give you a thoughtful response.

Jokeslayer
05-04-2013, 05:22 AM
Was there ever any discussion on which of the scenarios the DO was actually after? I seem to remember a brief discussion in which people seemed to think that it was the "enslaved world" version, whereas I stand by the "nothingness" version as the DO's ultimate victory. But I haven't really paid attention to either this board or the post-release Q&A stuff, so my impression of either the general consensus or the actual answer could be wrong.

GonzoTheGreat
05-04-2013, 05:58 AM
Was there ever any discussion on which of the scenarios the DO was actually after? I seem to remember a brief discussion in which people seemed to think that it was the "enslaved world" version, whereas I stand by the "nothingness" version as the DO's ultimate victory. But I haven't really paid attention to either this board or the post-release Q&A stuff, so my impression of either the general consensus or the actual answer could be wrong.
There has been some discussion, and everyone seemed to have agreed that everyone else was wrong.

Not many seemed to be in favor of the scientifically robust "try and find out" approach.