PDA

View Full Version : Androl's mini-Gateway


Great Lord of the Dark
05-26-2013, 10:10 PM
After a lengthy (ugh) hiatus, I am back to updating by reread blog, and just discussed Androl's mini-Gateway. I repost my theory here, for further discussion. Coincidentally, I see the Tor.com reread has caught back up to me, and is discussing this very same chapter. In most cases, readers either say the dreamspike was being de-activated, or that Androl is just special. I delve into why he is special:

Androlís Talent for Gateways allowed him to make a miniscule Gateway over a very short distance even when the dreamspike was activated. The small Gateway he uses to catch Taimís balefire presumably also only carried it a very short distance. Perrinís deactivation of the dreamspike then frees Androl to make Gateways of any size, and he uses some exciting techniques to devastate Taimís cronies and send two Forsaken running. After such an intense build-up, the resolution is nothing but satisfaction. Importantly, Androl and the other Ashaíman have claimed their own freedom, usurping control from Taim with no observable outside help.

Androl isnít the only character whose desperate actions amazingly bear fruit. Rand did the same on several occasions, notably at the end of The Eye of the World, when he thrice appealed to the Light to intercede and save him, and then was able to regain control of the situation. Androl makes no such appeal for deliverance, instead drawing on his defiance and will to displace the barrier which prevents his Gateways from forming. Why does this work?

The simple explanation is that time runs differently in Telíaranírhiod, and Perrinís deactivation of the dreamspike is mirrored over a longer time frame in the waking world.

A different explanation requires delving into Androlís character and the reason for his Talent. Androl is a dreamer and a searcher, and has traveled far and wide across the world trying to find the elusive conditions that will give him closure and peace. He may have traveled to more places and tried more paths in life than almost every other character. He knows himself as much as he knows the places he has been. Androlís Talent and lack of ability in other areas is therefore a metaphor for his inner quest and lack of satisfaction with what he has found so far. Knowing himself is equated with knowing where he is, a condition required to form Gateways. When Androl finally succeeds in crafting his tiny Gateway, he has dug deep within himself and found that which he always sought elsewhere: the will to make part of the world fit his needs, to take his place as the heart and soul of the Black Tower, to defy Taim with his last breath and create the place he has long searched for. With this understanding comes his salvation, just as the dreamspike is deactivated.


Have at you, hail its brilliance or tear it to shreds Theorylanders!

Davian93
07-19-2013, 04:23 PM
Theory: Androl has special talents because the new author wanted to put his stamp on a series and bring some of his own mighty-morphin power rangers fighting brought into the final book. Thus, all sorts of zany, wacky things get to happen with gateways because "OMG!>?! ITS SO COOL!!!"

Zombie Sammael
07-19-2013, 06:35 PM
Theory: Androl has special talents because the new author wanted to put his stamp on a series and bring some of his own mighty-morphin power rangers fighting brought into the final book. Thus, all sorts of zany, wacky things get to happen with gateways because "OMG!>?! ITS SO COOL!!!"

Or perhaps it's because having Androl and Pevara's storyline actually gives AMOL a "through-line" of its own, making it readable as a novel on an individual level as well as simply the climax of the series, and making it a better book.

Not everyone shares your opinion on Androl.

GonzoTheGreat
07-20-2013, 03:55 AM
Theory: Androl has special talents because the new author wanted to put his stamp on a series and bring some of his own mighty-morphin power rangers fighting brought into the final book. Thus, all sorts of zany, wacky things get to happen with gateways because "OMG!>?! ITS SO COOL!!!"
Then again, we already have actual evidence from the books themselves that Traveling was supposed to be a Talent:
They would not find Rand Ė not unless he had slipped in unannounced; she had decided that he had somehow rediscovered the Talent called Traveling, but that put her no closer to knowing how it was done Ė yet whether they found Rand or not, they must not find Egwene. The best she could expect was to be hauled up short as an Accepted out of the Tower with no full sister to oversee her, and that could be expected only if Elaida really was not hunting for her. Even then they would haul her back to Tar Valon, and Elaida; she had no illusions that she could resist five or six Aes Sedai.
"Not at all, for you or any woman," Moghedien said, breathless and quick. The fear that boiled inside was plain on her face now. "That is how men Travel." The capital was plain; she was speaking of one of the lost Talents. "If you try, you will be sucked into... I donít know what it is. The space between the threads of the Pattern, maybe. I donít think you would live very long. I know you would never come back."
Some Talents (like seeing ta'veren, and making *angreal) seem to be a matter of "either you have it or you don't". But Healing is something just about any channeler can learn, however only those with the Talent for it can do more than the most basic stuff.

It seems likely that the same was true with Traveling. Every channeler can learn how to do it (though it takes a certain minimum amount of power to make it work, see Sorilea). But if you have the Talent for it, then you can do far more than just the basic stuff. When the AS lost the knowledge of how to Travel, they did remember that there was also a Talent involved with it, and erroneously assumed that Talent was a necessity.

Davian93
07-21-2013, 09:37 AM
Or perhaps it's because having Androl and Pevara's storyline actually gives AMOL a "through-line" of its own, making it readable as a novel on an individual level as well as simply the climax of the series, and making it a better book.

Not everyone shares your opinion on Androl.

Obviously. I never said or thought that people did. It doesn't make it any less of a valid opinion.

And a lot of people think it doesn't make it a better book FWIW.

suttree
07-22-2013, 12:01 AM
And a lot of people think it doesn't make it a better book FWIW.

It would be very hard for anyone to argue those scenes were handled well from a literary perspective. Yet another case of Brandon using a sledgehammer when a scalpel will do. Additionally it's pretty absurd to suggest that Androl was needed to play that role.

This Isam style write up on the double bonding scene was scarily close to what we actually got:

Pevara: I'm Aes Sedai, you're a man who can channel. You scare me.
Androl: I can't trust you.
Pevara: I can help you plan your coup against Taim. He's taken the rest of my sisters. That totally happened. I cried. Off screen.
Androl: You offer yourself as bait?
Pevara: Say what now?
Androl: Ah sarcasm.
Pevara: You really don't know anything about Aes Sedai do you?
Androl: Wait, what about your ideas for the coup?
Pevara: We're discussing Aes Sedai now. Keep up.
Androl: Well, sure I know alot about Aes Sedai. I know all your innermost flaws.
Pevara: So you've spent time studying us?
Androl: Oh no, I've avoided you as best I can.
Pevara: Then how can you know about flaws none but the Wise One's, some Kinswomen and maybe Fortuona know about.
Androl: I read this thread: http://www.dragonmou...f-an-aes-sedai/ . How did you know about those other things?
Pevara: eWoT, idiot. Let's link.
Androl: Well, okay, just so long as you don't freak out on me.
Pevara: Don't be silly. Now, break the laws of physics and initiate the link. Don't worry, I misunderstood something I studied earlier. It will work.
Androl: Okay...
Pevara: ZOMG YOU'RE CONTROLLING ME!!!!! #MindRapeBond
Androl: You said you wouldn't freak out. Just for that... #MindRapeBond.
Pevara: Well, that was certainly interesting.
Androl: Oh yes. I enjoyed it, myself. Look, the door is opening. I, the weak one, will take steps to protect us from the very likely reality that we're about to be Mindraped in a far less congenial way. You just stand there and wax lyrical about the One Power. Good girl.
FanStandInChild: Hey Mum! I'm on TV!!!
Pevara: Calm down sparky, at this stage it's just a book. Now, what terrible news do you have?
FanStandInChild: Weilyn 13.0 just rocked up. You can infer that Logain might suffer the same fate.
Pevara: OH NO NOT LOGAIN!!!!!
Androl: Poor Melare. She seemed nice.
Pevara: Who?
Androl: Never mind. Onward and upward my friends! Into the breach!
Pevara: You're strange. I have a feeling we're going to end up together.
Androl: Say what now?
Brandon: To be continued....

Nei
07-26-2013, 08:36 AM
Pevara: ZOMG YOU'RE CONTROLLING ME!!!!! #MindRapeBond
Androl: You said you wouldn't freak out. Just for that... #MindRapeBond.

And just like that, billions of bad smut fics were born.

Spasmodean
07-28-2013, 02:14 PM
Didn't we hear about Androl and his talent with gateways long before we ever had a PoV from him?

Isabel
07-28-2013, 06:36 PM
At least not from RJ. Androl was mentioned in book 9, but just as a normal ashaman.

yks 6nnetu hing
07-29-2013, 07:44 AM
come on guys, don't make us re-open the literary critique thread?

Alternatively, we do have a Your Fiction board - and we all know how RJ felt about fanfiction (not in favour)

Davian93
07-29-2013, 07:52 AM
come on guys, don't make us re-open the literary critique thread?

Alternatively, we do have a Your Fiction board - and we all know how RJ felt about fanfiction (not in favour)

So he'd be annoyed by the Androl subplot too then?

yks 6nnetu hing
07-29-2013, 08:24 AM
So he'd be annoyed by the Androl subplot too then?

*stare of doom*

Egwene used a self-invented Gateway to Travel (which later only got confirmed as the correct way of thinking about Traveling using saidar); Nynaeve made up a whole new way of Healing; to the point of Healing madness - Healing something that is mental rather than physical. Yet the male channelers have all been remembering or re-learning weaves either via Asmo's teachings or via LTT-memories,whatever those were; or via Taim who I presume got some weaves from the Forsaken. And then when a male character invents something, apparently the world can no longer hold together? That's reverse sexism, that is.

eta: which is funny because I bet that's the first time you've ever been called a man-hater?
eta2: and now I've made it more amusing by using the words "I bet". me, bet? never!

Tollingtoy
07-29-2013, 08:51 AM
When Rand is making the gateway to Camelyn to kill Rahvin in TFOH, he comments on how Asmodean told him that gateways are an inherent talent found in each individual channeler. Rand is arguably the strongest channeler alive, and yet the size of his gateway is limited by his aptitude for creating them. This would suggest that Androl's powers aren't necessarily entirely Brandon's fanboy fantasy, since RJ basically explains the justification for it here.

GonzoTheGreat
07-29-2013, 09:48 AM
Egwene used a self-invented Gateway to Travel (which later only got confirmed as the correct way of thinking about Traveling using saidar); Nynaeve made up a whole new way of Healing; to the point of Healing madness - Healing something that is mental rather than physical. Yet the male channelers have all been remembering or re-learning weaves either via Asmo's teachings or via LTT-memories,whatever those were; or via Taim who I presume got some weaves from the Forsaken.
Damer Flinn was busy inventing Healing based apparently on lessons from someone who can't do that and stories told by people who had no idea what was going on. From those (somewhat shaky) foundations he seems to have done nearly as well as Nynaeve did.

Some Asha'man (whoever it was, he was smart enough to remain anonymous) discovered a somewhat kinky variation on the Warder bond, once again based on no more than stories.

Taim had at least rudimentary Compulsion before he met any Forsaken; that's clear from the story told when he first meets Rand. This too may very well have been based on stories of AS (this time, how they always get people to do what they want).

All in all, it seems that if someone claims that an AS can do anything, then an Asha'man can find a way to duplicate it.

Yellowbeard
07-29-2013, 01:18 PM
Damer Flinn was busy inventing Healing based apparently on lessons from someone who can't do that and stories told by people who had no idea what was going on. From those (somewhat shaky) foundations he seems to have done nearly as well as Nynaeve did.

Some Asha'man (whoever it was, he was smart enough to remain anonymous) discovered a somewhat kinky variation on the Warder bond, once again based on no more than stories.

Taim had at least rudimentary Compulsion before he met any Forsaken; that's clear from the story told when he first meets Rand. This too may very well have been based on stories of AS (this time, how they always get people to do what they want).

All in all, it seems that if someone claims that an AS can do anything, then an Asha'man can find a way to duplicate it.

Perhaps all channelers have an ability to will what they need to happen a la Rand's pipe lighting to one degree or another, and based on how urgent their need is or how intense their emotions are about what they are trying to figure out how to do via channeling.

Davian93
07-29-2013, 08:28 PM
Perhaps all channelers have an ability to will what they need to happen a la Rand's pipe lighting to one degree or another, and based on how urgent their need is or how intense their emotions are about what they are trying to figure out how to do via channeling.

From what I understand, all that is required is the Will and the correct Word to unleash said Will...

GonzoTheGreat
07-30-2013, 03:50 AM
From what I understand, all that is required is the Will and the correct Word to unleash said Will...
Of course, if you try to use that to destroy something, then the result will not be what you intended. You yourself will then be destroyed, while your target remains intact.

Davian93
07-30-2013, 07:50 AM
Of course, if you try to use that to destroy something, then the result will not be what you intended. You yourself will then be destroyed, while your target remains intact.

Obviously, that's why Belrandion had to imprison the Dark One rather than destroy him.

Ishara
09-12-2013, 08:31 AM
To add another perspective, the New Age Channelers who 'invented' weaves or 'rediscovered' Talents all did so because they had no training and no preconcieved notions that the thing they wanted to do couldn't be done and therefore shouldn't be tried - they just did it. Nynaeve and Flinn are excellent examples of that. Androl may be a literary device, Davian, but he's also another example of this theme. He had his own limits in terms of his strength in the Power, but as there was no formal training to tell him otherwise (before he tried doing it), he taught himself to make those teeny tiny gateways. And by the time he was told that he couldn't/ shouldn't bother - it was done and learned. That his Talent for gateways had a purpose later on is also a throughline in terms of Nynaeve succeeding in healing madness - it's a natural conclusion and resolution to their learning the skuill in the first place.

padfoot89
09-12-2013, 02:59 PM
Taim had at least rudimentary Compulsion before he met any Forsaken; that's clear from the story told when he first meets Rand.

Which story ?

suttree
09-12-2013, 03:55 PM
Which story ?

LoC Ch.2

What does everyone not know, that you and Mazrim Taim will?" Focused on Bashere, he seemed unaware of his guards, or their swords still hovering near his ribs. "I hear you hid what happened to Musar and Hachari and their wives." The mockery was gone; he was just relating what had happened, now. "They shouldnít have tried to kill me under a parley flag. I trust you found them good places as servants? All theyíll really want to do now is serve and obey; they wonít be happy otherwise. I could have killed them. They all four drew daggers."
"Taim," Bashere growled, hand darting for his hilt, "you... !"

finnssss
12-28-2013, 11:36 PM
Couple of things...

First, Androl's expertise and ability to do things with Gateways that shouldn't have been possible or were unique goes back quite a ways under RJ.

First, that Androl doesn't require "knowing a place" to Travel from it and second, that Androl can make much larger Gateways than anyone else and especially for his power level.


Next, why shouldn't Androl be able to make Gateways inside the radius of the Dreamspike?
I don't recall there ever being mention of him or anyone else even trying to make a short distance Gateway.
They tried to make one outside of the radius and failed so just assumed none worked.
Perrin in TAR couldn't "jump" into the DS radius but he could "jump" around the radius once inside it.