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View Full Version : A theory, but not sure how accurate it is.


Rand al'Fain
07-25-2013, 03:42 PM
Ok, just to be clear, not sure how much there is to support this theory, but here it goes.

We know that the Aiel, from the time Rand went to the Waste up until Tarmon Gaidon itself, had a prophecy that said Rand would break them to where only a small number would survive. We obviously had a good number either throw down their weapons and become permanent gai'shain or join the Shaido, as well as an unspecified number lost in battle. And after the Battle of Shayol Ghul, we can safely assume they took a large amount of casaulties (Rhuarc becoming enslaved still stings), but the same can be said of all the nations/kingdoms that participated. And in the end, the Aiel became a sort of police force not bound by any one nation. Similar to the Whitecloaks, but they don't accuse everyone and their brother of being a DF if they don't get on their knees for the Aiel. All in all, a greatly respectable position that solidifies them for years to come. Hardly broken.

Meanwhile, you have the Sharans, whom up until the last book, where an almost complete unknown. And we got little tidbits of what sounds to be a prophecy where someone was supposed to bring them to their greatest glory, and they assumed Demandred's persona to be that person. Instead, their army is crushed and their channelers/nobles all but wiped out/captured. Their only "allies" being Trollocs, who were slaughtered and any left alive would just as soon eat the Sharans than anything.

My theory, is that the prophecies for the Aiel and Sharans got a little mixed up. We do know they've had contact over the years (like giving any "Treekillers" to the Xharans as slaves), so its not completely unthinkable for this. Although the Aiel lost people to being Brotherless, going gai'shain, or whatever else, it was not that different than other nations where people would use the Dragon Reborn as an excuse to break all bonds (including familial and marriage). It's just that the Aiel have a different "breaking bonds" than the others. And in the end, basically become a peace keeping force that is not tied to one nation or another, they're independent but with a great purpose. Whereas the Sharans are broken, their leader dead, and nobles almost wiped out.

Frenzy
07-26-2013, 02:10 AM
perhaps the 'remnant of a remnant' doesn't refer to their numbers, but to their lifestyle/culture. Their new role is certainly different than what they've been doing for the last few thousand years.

GonzoTheGreat
07-26-2013, 03:27 AM
We don't really know what happened to the Aiel Waste, from what I remember. If that was submerged again, then that would satisfy a couple of prophecies. The Sharan one that the Dragon would once again Break the World, and the Aiel one of having rather massive losses. It would also neatly take the Shaido out of the picture, as their survivors had just returned there.

Zombie Sammael
07-26-2013, 09:19 PM
I've always thought that "remnant of a remnant" referred to the modern day Aiel being a remnant of the few surviving AOL Aiel. Like Frenzy said, it's cultural rather than referring to population.

It also refers to their role. In the AOL the Aiel were Dai'shain and followed the Way of the Leaf, the path of peace. In the Fourth Age, they will be peacekeepers; transformed in the Third Age into warriors, but still sworn to peace.

Tomp
07-27-2013, 01:57 PM
I thought the remnant of a remnant referred to the returning Shaido.
They are the only ones to still keep to their old way of life.

GonzoTheGreat
07-28-2013, 03:15 AM
I thought the remnant of a remnant referred to the returning Shaido.
They are the only ones to still keep to their old way of life.
They weren't particularly saved by Couladin, and I'm not sure that they can maintain their old lifestyle (enslaving Wetlanders, setting up widows of clan chiefs as queen, and so forth) for all that long either.

Spasmodean
07-28-2013, 02:08 PM
Well, the meeting in which he presented the Dragon's Peace, Rand was muttering to himself that he was going to wake from the dream and the Aiel would be gone.

This echoed previous comments from the Aiel that they were a dream of Rand's that would be gone when he awoke from the dream.

So if the rest of the Aiel stay in the Wetlands as peace enforcers then perhaps the Shaido ARE the remnant of the remnant that their prophecies spoke of.

Davian93
07-29-2013, 07:56 AM
I'm sticking with it being the Shaido while the rest of the Aiel move on and integrate into Randland Proper as the police force. I think the Shaido find themselves in the Waste and turn back into normal pre-Dragon Aiel without any of their Couladin/Sevanna caused shenanigans.

GonzoTheGreat
07-29-2013, 09:39 AM
I'm sticking with it being the Shaido while the rest of the Aiel move on and integrate into Randland Proper as the police force. I think the Shaido find themselves in the Waste and turn back into normal pre-Dragon Aiel without any of their Couladin/Sevanna caused shenanigans.
They still have a captive Black Ajah AS, which isn't really entirely standard Aiel procedure either. Plus, they're gonna have to give up on the standard Aiel raids on other clans, or face the combined force of the whole rest of the world on the battlefield.

Yellowbeard
07-29-2013, 01:10 PM
I kind of thought the remnant of a remnant survivors of the Aiel was something still to come in the future. The Aiel of the 3-Fold land are pretty much gone. The Shaido have gone back to try to live as they used to, but the rest of the clans have not. So basically, there is no going back for the Aiel as an entire ethnic group.

Instead, who knows what will happen to the Shaido, but the Aiel in the wetlands will eventually evolve, and culturally will become very very different as the generations come and go. There will eventually be just a few that adhere to the cultural ways of their ancestors from the Waste.

Kind of like today's society in the USA...with the Amish being throwbacks to earlier times.

Rand al'Fain
08-03-2013, 02:57 AM
They still have a captive Black Ajah AS, which isn't really entirely standard Aiel procedure either. Plus, they're gonna have to give up on the standard Aiel raids on other clans, or face the combined force of the whole rest of the world on the battlefield.

Also considering their military force has been almost wiped out in 3 major battles. Cairhein, Dumais Wells, and against Perrin's allied forces, they wouldn't have the strength to oppose any nation still standing.


And this raises another question. Didn't the Aiel (the 11 clans besides the Shaido) leave about half of their effective military forces behind in the Waste to protect their Holds? I know they mentioned it when they were marching out of the Waste towards Cairhein. Meaning that other than Wise Ones, all non-combatants stayed behind along with some forces.

Cor Shan
09-02-2013, 01:14 AM
I kind of thought the remnant of a remnant survivors of the Aiel was something still to come in the future. The Aiel of the 3-Fold land are pretty much gone. The Shaido have gone back to try to live as they used to, but the rest of the clans have not. So basically, there is no going back for the Aiel as an entire ethnic group.

Instead, who knows what will happen to the Shaido, but the Aiel in the wetlands will eventually evolve, and culturally will become very very different as the generations come and go. There will eventually be just a few that adhere to the cultural ways of their ancestors from the Waste.

Kind of like today's society in the USA...with the Amish being throwbacks to earlier times.


In retrospect, having the "evil" Aiel clan being named "shaido" was way too obvious.