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View Full Version : What the Hell is with Callandor?


Seeker
09-18-2013, 01:16 AM
"I dunno, Seeker. I've been wondering that since 2004."

Sorry, sorry, I couldn't resist. I figure we need a new topic, so.

Callandor is a true power sa'angreal, which means it was made with the true power. Last spring, I sent Matoyak to ask Brandon if the Dark One was aware of its existence and apparently he was. So, why didn't he tell Moridin? And why would he let Moridin channel through it if he had any inkling about the flaw?

Zombie Sammael
09-18-2013, 02:23 AM
Callandor is a true power sa'angreal, which means it was made with the true power.

I have no idea where you're getting that from, but the reason why Callandor functions as a TP sa'angreal is the same reason why it magnifies the taint; it's a production flaw. Conceivably, that flaw could have come about because of interference during it's creation by a True Power channeler, but there's no evidence of that, and RJ said it was because of the rushed nature of its creation towards the end of the War/early Breaking.

I'm not sure what the answer to your question to Brandon was. If the Dark One was aware of Callandor, that doesn't mean he was aware it magnified his essences. If he was aware, then Moridin was wholly and totally on his side, so there was no risk to letting Moridin channel through it unless he was also aware of the link to Rand, which he may not have been, depending on how Rand's ability to channel the True Power came about. The DO not telling Moridin is as simple as the DO being extraordinarily selfish; why let Moridin have more TP than he needed?

Davian93
09-18-2013, 08:52 AM
I was always under the belief that the amount of TP one could channel was wholly dependant on the Dark One's imposed limits and not on pure channeling strength (ie Moridin channeling it despite not even being in a channelers body)

Why would Moridin NEED a sa'angreal for the TP when he could already channel as much TP as needed based on the DO's wishes.

Ishara
09-18-2013, 10:23 AM
You're right about ones strength in the True Power - it has nothing to do with ones strength in the One Power, but rather is directly linked to how much True Power the Dark One wants you to have. As for the rest...I'm not sure.

Seeker
09-18-2013, 12:35 PM
I have no idea where you're getting that from, but the reason why Callandor functions as a TP sa'angreal is the same reason why it magnifies the taint; it's a production flaw. Conceivably, that flaw could have come about because of interference during it's creation by a True Power channeler, but there's no evidence of that, and RJ said it was because of the rushed nature of its creation towards the end of the War/early Breaking.

I'm not sure what the answer to your question to Brandon was. If the Dark One was aware of Callandor, that doesn't mean he was aware it magnified his essences. If he was aware, then Moridin was wholly and totally on his side, so there was no risk to letting Moridin channel through it unless he was also aware of the link to Rand, which he may not have been, depending on how Rand's ability to channel the True Power came about. The DO not telling Moridin is as simple as the DO being extraordinarily selfish; why let Moridin have more TP than he needed?


So, you're saying someone accidentally made a true power sa'angreal? Is that even possible? Does any sa'angreal that fails the QA test secretly have the ability to magnify the true power?

Logic would seem to suggest that something like that couldn't happen by accident. What's more, we learned how angreal were made in the last book. Elayne is going to use a ter'angreal called a Seed to siphon some of her own channeling potential and bestow it on an inanimate object. In other words, you need a saidar channeler to make an angreal for saidar. If the process is analogous - and there's no reason to think it wouldn't be - then you need a true power channeler to make a sa'angreal for the true power, which almost certainly implies that the Dark One was aware of it at the time. It never occurred to him that this might one day be used against him?

suttree
09-18-2013, 12:39 PM
Here is the quote...

Interview: Oct 28th, 2005
KOD Signing Report - Jason Wolfbrother (Paraphrased)
Jason Wolfbrother
Was Callandor constructed during the War of Power?
Robert Jordan
Yes.
Jason Wolfbrother
Was it used in the War of Power?
Robert Jordan
Yes, that is how the flaw was discovered.
Jason Wolfbrother
Why didn't they ward/buffer Callandor?
Robert Jordan
The flaw with Callandor is simply a manufacturing flaw. He went on to talk about how they were at the end of their tech age with only a few sho-wings and jo-cars left. A couple of shocklances were still around but they were not as prevalent as they had been. Anyway they had been mass producing ter'angreal, angreal, and sa'angreal, and there are bound to be flaws with the products. The flaw with Callandor is simply one such flaw.

Seeker
09-18-2013, 12:57 PM
Here is the quote...

Kind of a blind watchmaker then. To say that Callandor is simply a production error is a little like saying "this cave man tried to make a sharper spear and ended up with an iPhone."

Tollingtoy
09-18-2013, 03:25 PM
I was always under the belief that the amount of TP one could channel was wholly dependant on the Dark One's imposed limits and not on pure channeling strength (ie Moridin channeling it despite not even being in a channelers body)

Why would Moridin NEED a sa'angreal for the TP when he could already channel as much TP as needed based on the DO's wishes.

I suppose another question would be that since you need to be a channeler to handle the TP, can you be burned out from handling too much the way a OP channeler would?

Seeker
09-18-2013, 04:05 PM
I suppose another question would be that since you need to be a channeler to handle the TP, can you be burned out from handling too much the way a OP channeler would?

I would assume so or there would be no purpose to a True Power sa'angreal

Zombie Sammael
09-18-2013, 07:58 PM
Kind of a blind watchmaker then. To say that Callandor is simply a production error is a little like saying "this cave man tried to make a sharper spear and ended up with an iPhone."

Well, it's not, is it? We know the One Power and True Power are fundamentally similar concepts; Mierin and Beidomon were looking for an alternative source of power to the OP when they found the DO, after all; it stands to reason to think what they "found" or detected was the True Power. Therefore, it's more like saying "this cave man tried to make a sharper spear and ended up with a sword".

You have to be able to channel the One Power to use the True Power:

INTERVIEW: Sep 4th, 2005
DragonCon Report - Matt Hatch (Paraphrased)
QUESTION
Can a person who cannot channel the One Power, can they use the True Power of the Dark One?
ROBERT JORDAN
No.

I'm not sure where Davian gets the idea that Moridin wasn't in a channeller's body, but it's a moot point in that we know channelling ability is a matter of soul plus body as far as the OP is concerned, and Moridin clearly has a soul for channelling; "the body bends to the soul".

It probably all comes down to the buffer that makes ordinary sa'angreal safe to use. We know Callandor lacked it, that it magnified the taint as well, and that ultimately it could be used as a True Power sa'angreal. I highlight that part because it's important to understand that that was never its intended purpose. If anyone had known it could be used in that capacity the Dark One wouldn't have stopped trying to get his hands on it, and the Light wouldn't have stopped until it had been destroyed. In any case, I think it's the lack of buffer that's important. That buffer prevents you from drawing more of the OP than is good for you; it's likely it also keeps other things that are bad for you, like cigarette smoke, hungry beavers, and the True Power away when channelling through an ordinary sa'angreal. Without that, when using Callandor, it's beavers galore.

GonzoTheGreat
09-19-2013, 03:59 AM
I suppose another question would be that since you need to be a channeler to handle the TP, can you be burned out from handling too much the way a OP channeler would?
Moghedien thought so, but she hadn't actually tried it, as far as we know:
The ledge on which she lay projected above a black-mottled red lake of molten rock where flames the size of men danced and died and reappeared. Overhead, the cavern rose roofless through the mountain to a sky where wild clouds raced, striated red and yellow and black, as if on the winds of time themselves. It was not the dark-clouded sky seen outside on Shayol Ghul. None of that earned a second glance, and not just because she had seen it many times. The Bore into the Great Lordís place of imprisonment was no closer here than anywhere else in the world, but here she could feel it, here she could bathe in the radiant glory of the Great Lord. The True Power washed around her, so strong here that attempting to channel it would fry her to a cinder. Not that she had any desire to pay the price elsewhere either.Bolding mine, to highlight the most relevant sentence.

Yellowbeard
09-19-2013, 09:19 AM
I thought I read an interview summary with Brandon where he stated that Callandor was made originally to be a trap for a Forsaken? I remember thinking "that's not what RJ said, but it would make sense for RJ to lie about it since letting the truth get out would spoil the ending for the entire series."

padfoot89
09-20-2013, 09:30 AM
Could be two separate events. Production flaw for the lack of a buffer and sabotage by a TP user to make it a TP sa-angreal / trap.

Seeker
09-21-2013, 08:07 PM
Well, it's not, is it? We know the One Power and True Power are fundamentally similar concepts; Mierin and Beidomon were looking for an alternative source of power to the OP when they found the DO, after all; it stands to reason to think what they "found" or detected was the True Power. Therefore, it's more like saying "this cave man tried to make a sharper spear and ended up with a sword".

You have to be able to channel the One Power to use the True Power:



I'm not sure where Davian gets the idea that Moridin wasn't in a channeller's body, but it's a moot point in that we know channelling ability is a matter of soul plus body as far as the OP is concerned, and Moridin clearly has a soul for channelling; "the body bends to the soul".

It probably all comes down to the buffer that makes ordinary sa'angreal safe to use. We know Callandor lacked it, that it magnified the taint as well, and that ultimately it could be used as a True Power sa'angreal. I highlight that part because it's important to understand that that was never its intended purpose. If anyone had known it could be used in that capacity the Dark One wouldn't have stopped trying to get his hands on it, and the Light wouldn't have stopped until it had been destroyed. In any case, I think it's the lack of buffer that's important. That buffer prevents you from drawing more of the OP than is good for you; it's likely it also keeps other things that are bad for you, like cigarette smoke, hungry beavers, and the True Power away when channelling through an ordinary sa'angreal. Without that, when using Callandor, it's beavers galore.

An interesting point.