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SauceyBlueConfetti
09-25-2013, 03:16 PM
I re-read, for the third time, the part where Talmanes is slowly feeling the effects of the Fade's blade. Two things dawned on me:

1. Talmanes was seeing things, almost hearing voices in his head. It struck me as reminiscent of Machin Shin's "talking" that Rand could hear.

The other side of the street was silent, nothing there burning. Shadows thrown by the statues danced and played, like revelers watching their enemies burn. The air smelled oppressively of smoke. Those shadows-and the burning statues-seemed to move, to Talmanes' fuzzy mind. Dancing creatures of shadow. Dying beauties, consumed by a sickness upon the skin, darkening it, feasting upon it, killing the soul...

I just found it interesting and began to wonder if Machin Shin is somehow related to how the Thakandar blades are forged. Which led me to...

2. thinking of Machin Shin. I remembered the Waygate in The Great Hunt that Rand opened, and how Machin Shin seemed to unexplainably be reaching out of the Ways. Something it was not supposedly able to do. They closed the gate and locked it and that was part of the thinking for closing and locking each Waygate. So...when the Waygate in Caemlyn was opened in AMoL, it could be assumed that Machin Shin could have in fact escaped into the world. This could account for some of the more horrific "breaking of the world" deaths and overall madness seen as the Last Battle was beginning.

suttree
09-25-2013, 03:51 PM
Well since Machin Shin is essentially a "bacteria" that grew out of the taint it would make sense that someone wounded by a Thakandar blade would experience those symptoms.

As for Machin Shin escaping Brandon has said there was a cut scene in which the Ogier cleaned the ways.

GonzoTheGreat
09-26-2013, 03:26 AM
I suspect that the similarity is more an effect of having only a limited number of ways of describing madness.

Ishara
09-26-2013, 11:49 AM
Well since Machin Shin is essentially a "bacteria" that grew out of the taint it would make sense that someone wounded by a Thakandar blade would experience those symptoms.



Sorry, I'm missing the connection. A Thakandar blade would have the Taint on it/ in it, excatly how? And why?

GonzoTheGreat
09-26-2013, 11:53 AM
Sorry, I'm missing the connection. A Thakandar blade would have the Taint on it/ in it, excatly how? And why?
The idea is probably that both the Taint and the Thakandar effect are caused by the DO. Since we know that the Taint can have an amazingly wide range of various effects, it stands to reason that the Thakandar symptoms would be rather more limited. Or something like that, I guess.

Weird Harold
09-26-2013, 12:14 PM
A Thakandar blade would have the Taint on it/ in it, excatly how? And why?

Forged in the shadow of Shayol Ghul, deep in the Blight, by constructs created (in part) by the TP, it seems to me that the question should be "How do Thakandar Blades avoid the Taint," if you contend they aren't Tainted.

Ishara
09-26-2013, 03:45 PM
It was the One Power that was Tainted, not the True Power. The True Power was never tainted. I'm still not following.

Zombie Sammael
09-26-2013, 06:58 PM
It was the One Power that was Tainted, not the True Power. The True Power was never tainted. I'm still not following.

This may help:

INTERVIEW: Mar, 2000
Letter to Paul Ward (Verbatim)
PAUL WARD
Possible question: ??
ROBERT JORDAN
The taint and the True Power are both manifestations of the Dark One—they are the same substance, but those who access it are not destroyed in the same way.

Weird Harold
09-26-2013, 10:44 PM
It was the One Power that was Tainted, not the True Power. The True Power was never tainted. I'm still not following.

Saidin was Tainted with the True Power. The Blight is Tainted with the True Power. Thakandar exists in the midst of Tainted territory, much as the Ways eventually became visibly Tainted because the were constructed with Tainted Saidin.

It is probably worth noting that in addition to Machin Shin's voices and Talmanes hearing voices, one of the most common forms of Taint Madness was "hearing voices."

GonzoTheGreat
09-27-2013, 03:23 AM
Graphite and diamond are the same substance, but that doesn't mean that they have precisely the same properties, nor that the effects will be the same if you present a lump of one or the other to a girl.

So the fact that both the Taint and the Thakandar influence on the blades are the same substance is by itself not proof that their effects would have to be comparable.

What Talmanes got was just a fairly standard "bad trip" type of hallucination, caused by fever and (probably) other malfunctions in his homeostasis.

Ishara
09-27-2013, 09:56 AM
(Did Gonzo just bail me out? Awesome.)

I agree with Gonzo. :D

GonzoTheGreat
09-27-2013, 10:05 AM
Ishara, do you have an identical twin? If so, then the "present a lump of carbon of whatever type" experiment could actually be done by someone.
Of course, there's still the problem of finding a suitable lump of graphite (and a diamond), but that's someone else's problem. As is financing this research.

Ishara
09-30-2013, 08:03 AM
Are you calling me lumpy? :p

GonzoTheGreat
09-30-2013, 08:26 AM
A somewhat generalised version of the question asked in the OP* is:
Is the DO a one trick pony, a two trick pony, an infinite number trick pony, or a My Little Pony?

Probably not the latter, but it seemed necessary to include that option. As for the other options, how many different attacks did the DO use, and how do you decide whether or not they're different enough to be counted separately? It seems to me that this is at least to a certain extend arbitrary. Of course, others may disagree.

* I think it might not be opportune to answer the question from post #13 right now.