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GonzoTheGreat
11-10-2013, 10:02 AM
Well, then maybe Mat wouldn't leave him like the others had. That would be good, as Olver was going to need Mat's help tracking down those Shaido. After all he'd learned training with the Band, he was certain nobody would push him around. And nobody would take those he loved from him ever again.
No father, no surviving mother, a great fear of losing his loved ones: Olver is Anaking Skywalker Reborn.
Oh, and that means that Noal is Obi Wan Kenobi.

Weird Harold
11-10-2013, 12:00 PM
works for me. :D

Except for the minor detail that the WOT doesn't encompass interstellar civilization(s).

GonzoTheGreat
11-10-2013, 12:54 PM
Except for the minor detail that the WOT doesn't encompass interstellar civilization(s).
Does too:
There are records of people in the Age even transporting to other worlds, both among the stars and in other dimensions. Portal stones, activated by the One Power, allowed users and any who accompanied them to travel to other dimensions and worlds within the universe of the Wheel. It is doubtful that portal stones were used regularly by any other than Aes Sedai, because skill and strength in the Power were needed to activate them.

Bonus points for anyone who manages to prove that Egwene is Jar Jar Binks Reborn.

WinespringBrother
11-11-2013, 10:03 AM
Does too:


Bonus points for anyone who manages to prove that Egwene is Jar Jar Binks Reborn.

Sorry, that role is taken by Elaida

yks 6nnetu hing
11-11-2013, 10:32 AM
Sorry, that role is taken by Elaida

floppy-eared helpful dude who just keeps making things worse. it's Gawyn.

GonzoTheGreat
11-11-2013, 10:33 AM
Sorry, that role is taken by ElaidaPoint.

Mat is Palpatine, obviously, who is going to be Emperor. Loial is Chewbacca, just as obviously. Would Logain be Yoda?

Rand al'Fain
11-13-2013, 02:56 AM
No, that's Thom.

Yoda-Old and wisened mentor.
Thom-Old and wisened mentor.

And both have killer moves. Though Thom isn't as hesitant about killing off people as Yoda is.

GonzoTheGreat
11-16-2013, 12:08 PM
Since this thread seems to have died a bit, I'll hijack it instead of starting a new one. Maybe someone will even manage to tie the two topics together.

That is a coincidence. When they say that Mat has the Dark One's own luck, he can get as mad as he wants to, but in a way it is true. It wasn't a gift from Lanfear, though.
During a reread of AMoL, I suddenly realised that Mat is using chaos in war to hide what he does, and to bring opportunities for outsmarting the enemy. This is also what he does with dice and other gambling, of course. And, apparently, either the DO does that too or the DO believes that he can do it as well (hence the "let the lord of Chaos rule" business).

So both Mat and the DO are chaos-users. This may be what RJ meant when he said that Mat really had the DO's own luck.

Daekyras
11-19-2013, 06:04 AM
Since this thread seems to have died a bit, I'll hijack it instead of starting a new one. Maybe someone will even manage to tie the two topics together.


During a reread of AMoL, I suddenly realised that Mat is using chaos in war to hide what he does, and to bring opportunities for outsmarting the enemy. This is also what he does with dice and other gambling, of course. And, apparently, either the DO does that too or the DO believes that he can do it as well (hence the "let the lord of Chaos rule" business).

So both Mat and the DO are chaos-users. This may be what RJ meant when he said that Mat really had the DO's own luck.

I don't know about this gonzo. I always just assumed it was a coloquialism for someone who is very lucky :eek:

GonzoTheGreat
11-19-2013, 07:14 AM
Yes, it is, but RJ seems to say that in Mat's case it is actually more than that.

Hugh the Hand
11-19-2013, 11:43 AM
Some haave argued that Mat's luck is partially due to his taint from the Dagger.

Along those lines, when Lanfear first talks to Mat she says that he will not trust her, due to his long time with the Dagger and how it makes him not trust people.

How does she know anything about that taint and the effects? Did she have enough time to investigate something that happened long after her sleep? And was it important enough for her to learn about it, along with 3000 years of history?

Just something that I am sure had been discussed in the past. But I just thought of it

GonzoTheGreat
11-19-2013, 12:00 PM
Maybe whatever caused Aridhol to become Shadar Logoth had been considered (and then rejected) as an alternative power source before they stumbled upon the DO.

Davian93
11-22-2013, 09:40 AM
Some haave argued that Mat's luck is partially due to his taint from the Dagger.

Along those lines, when Lanfear first talks to Mat she says that he will not trust her, due to his long time with the Dagger and how it makes him not trust people.

How does she know anything about that taint and the effects? Did she have enough time to investigate something that happened long after her sleep? And was it important enough for her to learn about it, along with 3000 years of history?

Just something that I am sure had been discussed in the past. But I just thought of it

Well, clearly whatever power caused Aridhol to become Shadar Logoth was fairly well known by the Shadow during the Age of Legends...given that both Aginor and Balthamel recognize it as well:


TITLE: Eye of the World
CHAPTER: 50 - Meetings at the Eye

"He guided us." The hand that pointed to Mat was old and shriveled to scarcely human, lacking a fingernail and with knuckles gnarled like knots in a piece of rope. Mat took a step back, eyes widening. "An old thing, an old friend, an old enemy.


Thus, Lanfear likely didnt have to research it...she probably recognized it on first sight.

GonzoTheGreat
12-01-2013, 12:17 PM
Yukiri Delved the next man, then nodded. Siuan knelt down and began a Healing weave. She'd never been very good at this, and even with an angreal, it took a lot out of her. She brought the soldier back from the edge of death, Healing the wound in his side. He gasped, much of the energy for the Healing coming from his own body.We know that Moiraine was rather good at Healing, so this is a clear difference between the two. It does bring up the question, though: why did Siuan Heal Mat in TDR?

Rand al'Fain
12-01-2013, 08:53 PM
We know that Moiraine was rather good at Healing, so this is a clear difference between the two. It does bring up the question, though: why did Siuan Heal Mat in TDR?

Partly healing partly severing his ties to the dagger. After that though, no clue.

Ishara
12-01-2013, 09:41 PM
It was her strength in the OP that was used to heal Matt. She didn't lead that circle did she?

GonzoTheGreat
12-02-2013, 05:23 AM
Siuan did lead the circle, and Mat recognised that wasn't a good idea:
"I will meld the flows," the Amyrlin said. "Be careful. The Power needed to break the bond with the dagger and Heal its damage is very close to what could kill him. I will focus. Attend." She held the wand straight out in front of her in both hands, above Mat's face. Still unconscious, he shook his head and tightened a fist on the dagger's hilt, muttering something that sounded like a denial.
Siuan could have lent her strength by joining the circle while letting someone else (presumably a Yellow) lead it.

Davian93
12-02-2013, 08:06 AM
I would guess that it wasn't a healing in the traditional sense and that Siuan was the best at whatever particular weave was required...otherwise, it would have likely been a Yellow leading the other 12 strongest Sisters available (or 9 in this case as it was a circle of 10 total).

Politics could have come into play as well and Moiraine didn't want to ask the Yellow to be there which might have led to some awkward questions like "why were you in Shadar Logoth? Why are you collecting teenage boys? Why does he think he's the reborn prince of Manetheren, etc etc" Thus, Moiraine might have simply gone to her BFF and had her pick the most trustworthy AS she knew of to help sever the link and who could hopefully keep their mouth shut...that could explain why there were only 10 Sisters in the circle and the ones named are all ones that we've already met (Sheriam (oops), Anaiya, Alanna, Leane, Suian, Verin, and Serafelle)..none of whom are Yellow.

There's also the distinct possibility that the plot required it and/or RJ didn't want to introduce some new AS of the Yellow Ajah to lead the healing so he went with a good way to keep putting Siuan into the story...

Most likely to me though it comes down to it being not a traditional healing and that Siuan was simply the best at blending those flows to sever such a link...perhaps there is some neat backstory for her character in the notes that we'll get at some point that explain why she was the best to lead such a circle...

Ishara
12-02-2013, 09:40 AM
Okay - didn't have access to my WoT search yesterday, colour me embarassed for forgetting that detail. Thanhks for the quote, Gonzo.

I'd agree, then with Dav. It wasn't a straight Healing issue - it was more about shielding Mat from the evil of Shadar Logoth, which is more up Suian's alley.

GonzoTheGreat
12-03-2013, 07:24 AM
I'm not sure Siuan ever had any more to do with Shadar Logoth than any other AS of her time. On the other hand, the only other option seems to be that someone made a mistake, and how likely is that?

Another issue: was Lini eaten?
From what I have managed to figure out, we never hear about her since before the fall of Caemlyn, and based on what we know of that situation, there was a definite risk of death there.

Rand al'Fain
12-03-2013, 10:04 PM
I'm not sure Siuan ever had any more to do with Shadar Logoth than any other AS of her time. On the other hand, the only other option seems to be that someone made a mistake, and how likely is that?

Another issue: was Lini eaten?
From what I have managed to figure out, we never hear about her since before the fall of Caemlyn, and based on what we know of that situation, there was a definite risk of death there.

Nah, the old bat ended up roasting a few trollocs for supper for some survivors, but told the survivors it was a special kind of cow.

In all seriousness, there are several other characters played some important parts, but seem to disappear and are never heard from again, like Leanne.

GonzoTheGreat
12-04-2013, 04:53 AM
Do you mean Leane Sharif?
She's last seen gazing at Entombed Egwene, right after the Fall of Taim. That is a proper battlefield appearance. She may have survived the following mayhem, or maybe not. But Either way, we do know that she was doing what she'd been doing the whole series (being AS), and whether she lived or died, she kept on being an AS. Considering the fact that she isn't very strong in the OP anymore, she would not play a big political role in the WT structure, so the fact that we don't see her in the past-TG politicking is not surprising at all.

Rand al'Fain
12-05-2013, 04:18 AM
Do you mean Leane Sharif?
She's last seen gazing at Entombed Egwene, right after the Fall of Taim. That is a proper battlefield appearance. She may have survived the following mayhem, or maybe not. But Either way, we do know that she was doing what she'd been doing the whole series (being AS), and whether she lived or died, she kept on being an AS. Considering the fact that she isn't very strong in the OP anymore, she would not play a big political role in the WT structure, so the fact that we don't see her in the past-TG politicking is not surprising at all.

Still, its just a pet peeve of mine when prominent characters in a story (books, games, movies, etc) are just kind of left hanging or forgotten. Or at least their ultimate fate (I'm looking at YOU K. A. Applegate! :mad:).

Zombie Sammael
12-05-2013, 06:58 AM
Still, its just a pet peeve of mine when prominent characters in a story (books, games, movies, etc) are just kind of left hanging or forgotten. Or at least their ultimate fate (I'm looking at YOU K. A. Applegate! :mad:).

Well, you can't say RJ didn't warn you.

Ishara
12-05-2013, 09:53 AM
I don't know, I think it's a compliment to readers when writers don't close every door for us. My preference by far, is that we're allowed to infer our own endings for those storylines and characters that weren't tied up with a neat little bow.

Davian93
12-05-2013, 12:28 PM
I'm kinda annoyed that we didn't get good closure on Wil al'Seen...WTF RJ, WTF???

Hugh the Hand
12-05-2013, 06:22 PM
This series obviously had too many characters to find out what happened to them all. Heck we do not even know what clan chiefs survived, if any. Nor do we know what Aes Sedia lived.
I am more curious as to previously important characters, like Dobraine, disappeared.

Also, the list of minor characters that simply disappeared is amazing, like Ragan, or Serafella, or countless others.

Another little thing, and if we added all of our little things we would have added three more books, when Egwene meets Tuon, do you not think Eladia might have come up even in the middle of a battle. "oh by the way, you did capture our former Amyrlin?"

I guess this minor rant has gone off the topic a little.

GonzoTheGreat
12-06-2013, 05:49 AM
Another little thing, and if we added all of our little things we would have added three more books, when Egwene meets Tuon, do you not think Eladia might have come up even in the middle of a battle. "oh by the way, you did capture our former Amyrlin?"
Having Elaida returned would have been politically rather inconvenient. What, exactly, would have been her official status amongst the AS? Much easier to simply let her remain "missing in action".