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Sodas
09-17-2008, 04:54 AM
Just breaking :

'Multiple casualties' in blast at Yemen U.S. Embassy

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/09/17/yemen.blast/index.html
Mason who lives in a compound opposite the building said he saw "a massive fireball." Listen to witness describe attack

"We heard the sounds of a heavy gun battle going on," he told CNN. "I looked out my window, and we saw the first explosion going off -- a massive fireball very close to the U.S. Embassy.

"The gun battle went on for a further 10 to 15 minutes, followed by two further loud explosions."

Edited to make sure subject is factually correct. Al-Queda linked or not ~ we shall soon see I'm sure.

GonzoTheGreat
09-17-2008, 05:02 AM
Bin Laden wants McCain in office. Expect a couple more attacks until the actual elections, then it will drop off again.

irerancincpkc
09-17-2008, 05:45 AM
Bin Laden wants McCain in office. Expect a couple more attacks until the actual elections, then it will drop off again.
I wish I could disagree with you.

I hope all those who were hurt recover...

Davian93
09-17-2008, 06:27 AM
Must...Invade....Yemen!!!

Gilshalos Sedai
09-17-2008, 08:29 AM
I'm so out of it! Still no power and no news!

Frankly, if I were Bin Laden I would continue escalating while a majority of the US's attention is on cleaning up after Ike.

Crispin's Crispian
09-17-2008, 10:43 AM
I'm so out of it! Still no power and no news!

Frankly, if I were Bin Laden I would continue escalating while a majority of the US's attention is on cleaning up after Ike.
As much as it pains me to say it, Gil, Ike is no longer the focus of the news. It's the economy, stock market, and, yes, back to the election.

Ike is old news in media terms, despite the fact that millions are still recovering.

Although NPR still had Mandaleith del Barco (sp) reporting from Houston last night. So someone is still paying attention.

Gilshalos Sedai
09-17-2008, 10:51 AM
Ike is old news in media terms, despite the fact that millions are still recovering.

Although NPR still had Mandaleith del Barco (sp) reporting from Houston last night. So someone is still paying attention.

No, we're old news 'cause we ain't whining like New Orleans. (And we had our shit together beforehand.)

GonzoTheGreat
09-17-2008, 11:21 AM
And Ike was only category 5, while Katrina was category 2. Or something like that.

But I think you lot underestimate Bin Laden. He seems well aware that he cannot defeat the USA in an open confrontation. So he does not bother trying, and that's what he would do if he tried to escalate now (or at any time). Instead, he keeps pushing the USA off balance whenever there is an opportunity, and suckers it into overreacting against Muslims all over the world. Then he does not even need to clamor, the relatives of the innocent victims of American mistakes will do that for him.
He draws his strength primarily from appearing as an opponent to the USA, not from actually being one.

And that's where Obama would be a greater threat to him than McCain: while the latter could be counted on to react with violence, without knowing which target to hit (and thus almost certainly hitting the wrong ones), Obama might react more diplomatically. He would still capture or kill Bin Laden when an opportunity showed itself, but he would not automatically hand out guns to anyone that claimed to be working against Al Qaeda.

Of course, it is possible that OBL and me are wrong about the two presidential candidates; perhaps it doesn't matter which gets the White House, perhaps McCain would actually be more reasonable. But the last couple of elections have shown that OBL wanted a Republican, each time they seemed to lose he ordered an attack or released a video, allowing Bush (then) or McCain (now) to show a strong opposition to terror.

Gilshalos Sedai
09-17-2008, 11:31 AM
Actually, there's talk that Ike may cause them to re-evaluate their hurricane ratings since it carried the storm surge of a Cat 4. And try telling Galveston it was a weaker storm.


Are you telling me diplomacy would have a greater impact on Bin Laden than force? Baloney. He's attempting to get The West to dance on his puppet strings, no matter what tactic we use.

Crispin's Crispian
09-17-2008, 11:38 AM
Actually, there's talk that Ike may cause them to re-evaluate their hurricane ratings since it carried the storm surge of a Cat 4. And try telling Galveston it was a weaker storm.

That's what they were saying after Katrina, too, at least in Mississippi. She was a Cat 3 at landfall, but the storm surge was Cat 5. That's the problem with the classification as it stands today--it only rates wind strength, when most damage is due to the surge.

Gilshalos Sedai
09-17-2008, 11:46 AM
They really need to get off their asses and do that, then, huhn? Ike also held together way longer than it was supposed to have, as well, cutting a wide swathe through the midwest.

Sinistrum
09-17-2008, 11:48 AM
Bin Laden wants McCain in office. Expect a couple more attacks until the actual elections, then it will drop off again.

Well given Bush's history and my doubts about McCain there might be something to this. Or perhaps it is the opposite and he wants Obama to win because he knows the response to his actions would be little girl style weak. I can't tell which approach is worse anymore: setting fire to a house to get one person inside of it or trying to hold hands and sing kumbaya with someone who has just butchered your family.

GonzoTheGreat
09-17-2008, 11:49 AM
Are you telling me diplomacy would have a greater impact on Bin Laden than force? Baloney. He's attempting to get The West to dance on his puppet strings, no matter what tactic we use.
Not on Bin Laden. Nor on his couple of dozen closest henchmen. But on the hundreds of millions of other Muslims who are affected by the methods chosen, it may very well have a better effect.

Consider the following two options:
1. The USA keeps attacking what they think are Taliban in Pakistan, occasionally (often, it seems) killing innocents. Eventually Pakistani soldiers fire back (they've done that already) and kill some Americans, capture others. Then what? Start a nuclear war, accept that those Americans are now "enemy combatants" who will remain locked up until the end of The War Against Terror, or try a massive ground assault in an attempt to rescue them?
2. The USA works out a diplomatic agreement with Pakistan which allows both countries to deal more effectively with the currently lawless region there. This minimizes civilian losses, strengthens democracy in Pakistan and Afganistan, and costs fewer American lives in the long run.

Option 2, obviously, would require some humility and patience.

Gilshalos Sedai
09-17-2008, 11:58 AM
2. The USA works out a diplomatic agreement with Pakistan which allows both countries to deal more effectively with the currently lawless region there. This minimizes civilian losses, strengthens democracy in Pakistan and Afganistan, and costs fewer American lives in the long run.

I like that one, just not sure either candidate can do it.

Cary Sedai
09-17-2008, 12:04 PM
Well given Bush's history and my doubts about McCain there might be something to this. Or perhaps it is the opposite and he wants Obama to win because he knows the response to his actions would be little girl style weak. I can't tell which approach is worse anymore: setting fire to a house to get one person inside of it or trying to hold hands and sing kumbaya with someone who has just butchered your family.


Stop that Sini, I hate agreeing with you. ;) Seriously though, that's what I find so... frustrating about OBL & Al-Queda. It seems as if no matter what our government does, it only digs us deeper. Is it just me, or is everything our government doing digger us deeper. From our economy to our 'war on terror'?

Sinistrum
09-17-2008, 12:09 PM
Is it just me, or is everything our government doing digger us deeper. From our economy to our 'war on terror'?

It's the government. What did you expect? Wait...you didn't honestly expect government to help any of these problems did you? :p

Cary Sedai
09-17-2008, 12:10 PM
No, we're old news 'cause we ain't whining like New Orleans. (And we had our shit together beforehand.)

Bad form.

Cary Sedai
09-17-2008, 12:11 PM
It's the government. What did you expect? Wait...you didn't honestly expect government to help any of these problems did you? :p

No, I dont' really expect that. I always hope for it though.

Crispin's Crispian
09-17-2008, 12:12 PM
It's the government. What did you expect? Wait...you didn't honestly expect government to help any of these problems did you? :p
Plus you're talking about an enemy that is completely irrational. It doesn't matter what we do, he still wants to kill us or convert us to his Nazi brand of Islam.

Or maybe he just wants to be in charge. I hate giving him the benefit of lofty ideals when he's probably just compensating for some sexual dysfunction.

Gilshalos Sedai
09-17-2008, 12:22 PM
Bad form.


Have you seen the pics of Bolivar and Galveston? And no, I'm not talking about the people in AL and MS who's houses were washed to sea. I'm talking about a city who REELECTED the man who let their levees fail because the funds went to something that wasn't quite as important.

Cary Sedai
09-17-2008, 12:35 PM
What does your comment have to do with them reelecting him?

No, we're old news 'cause we ain't whining like New Orleans. (And we had our shit together beforehand.)

If texas had not been prepared, if Galveston and surrounding areas hadn't been evacuated, things would have been much worse. Yes, I've seen pictures. I've also seen pictures of Katrina's aftermath. Your comment is in bad form, because those people weren't prepared. No matter how stupid it was of our government not to be prepared, the people who lived through it bore the brunt. To make light of the cituation, is bad form.

Gilshalos Sedai
09-17-2008, 12:45 PM
I'll argue this with you elsewhere.

Gilshalos Sedai
09-17-2008, 03:05 PM
In retrospect (and after Cary spent two hours telling me I'm an awful person. ;) ), I'll clarify my statement.

I don't agree with how Mayor Nagin handled his city's evacuation planning, clean up, and his time in the national spotlight. And they still re-elected him. As the mayor he's the face/voice of NO and if you said the same of Bill White, I could understand that. Now, I didn't mean to hijack this thread from the embassy bombings.

Sodas
09-17-2008, 03:10 PM
Now, I didn't mean to hijack this thread from the embassy bombings.
Hijack is a great word in a thread about terrorists of course ;)

Just an update on this :

seems there are over a dozen killed, but none of those were US personel.

Doubt this story will last - the continued economic meltdown has dominated coverage for this week. Right now, people sadly aren't really looking at overseas news.

Gilshalos Sedai
09-17-2008, 03:21 PM
I love verbal serendipity. I wasn't even thinking about that pun.

But seriously, I'm irritated and annoyed that we were projected to NOT get power back on until the middle of next week (which means no news). But then I called and politely told them of the powerline dominoes out by our house and there's already a crew there. Whether they can fix it in the next day or not, doesn't matter. They're TRYING.

Cary Sedai
09-17-2008, 03:29 PM
Hey, I never said you were an awful person! And stop hijacking this thread! :p


I think that we are mostly desensitized to embassy attacks, car bombings and suicide bombers. Which is really sad. Attention will sway to our economy because it's right here, not on the other side of the world. Where these things are seen more as a matter of course, than anything else anymore.

GonzoTheGreat
09-18-2008, 04:16 AM
Plus you're talking about an enemy that is completely irrational. It doesn't matter what we do, he still wants to kill us or convert us to his Nazi brand of Islam.

Or maybe he just wants to be in charge. I hate giving him the benefit of lofty ideals when he's probably just compensating for some sexual dysfunction.
To be honest: I do not think that he is completely irrational. Nor even moderately irrational. I do think that he wants to be in charge, but not of the world (or even just the USA). OBL wants to rule Saudi Arabia, or perhaps he would be content with that country being an explicit and absolute theocracy of his own brand of Islam. All his actions against the USA have just two purposes:
-Get the USA to stop supporting the Saudi monarchs (who are a lot worse than the king your forefathers rebelled against in the American Revolution).
-Show that he has the courage and capability to take on anyone at all, in the name of God. That gives him credibility for his power grab.

He actually believes what he preaches. This means, that in his opinion, once Saudi Arabia has been won over, the rest of the Ummah (Islamic World) will be purified. Then, when all Muslims are doing God's will, nothing can stand in their way, and Islam will conqueer the world.
Wacky and unrealistic, yes. Irrational, not any more than any other religious viewpoint. Once you accept the tenets of his religion, the rest is rather rational.

Edited to add:
But seriously, I'm irritated and annoyed that we were projected to NOT get power back on until the middle of next week (which means no news).
You shouldn't have killed Saddam. He usually managed to get power back on line within 24 hours of American bombardments, the US government can't manage that in years. If, instead of hanging him, you'd made him head of FEMA, then you would now have had power again for days.
Plus, it would have given you the wonderful quote "heck of a job, Saddie".

Davian93
09-18-2008, 06:25 AM
You shouldn't have killed Saddam. He usually managed to get power back on line within 24 hours of American bombardments, the US government can't manage that in years. If, instead of hanging him, you'd made him head of FEMA, then you would now have had power again for days.
Plus, it would have given you the wonderful quote "heck of a job, Saddie".

The guy could eat an entire large bag of Doritos in under 15 min. You should never dispose of such a talent. I think he would have done a wonderful job in charge of FEMA.

Gilshalos Sedai
09-18-2008, 08:10 AM
Anyone would be better than who we have now.

Davian93
09-18-2008, 08:17 AM
Anyone would be better than who we have now.

He did know how to get things done.

Hopper
09-18-2008, 08:54 AM
It's amazing how much more efficient people become when failure results in torture and death.

Davian93
09-18-2008, 09:05 AM
It's amazing how much more efficient people become when failure results in torture and death.

"The Emperor's coming here?!?"

"Yes and he is most displeased with your apparent lack of progress"

"We shall double our efforts!"

"I hope so Commander for your sake. The Emperor is not as forgiving than I."

This from a guy that suffocates those that fail basic tasks.

Brita
09-18-2008, 10:04 AM
"The Emperor's coming here?!?"

"Yes and he is most displeased with your apparent lack of progress"

"We shall double our efforts!"

"I hope so Commander for your sake. The Emperor is not as forgiving than I."

This from a guy that suffocates those that fail basic tasks.

Intersperce deep breathing throughout. Very memorable scene that one.