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SauceyBlueConfetti
03-16-2014, 06:45 PM
This is Theoryland for goodness sake. LET'S HEAR SOME!!!!

Isabel
03-17-2014, 12:28 AM
I have no clue. It sounds like a tom clancy book.

yks 6nnetu hing
03-17-2014, 02:44 AM
Personally, I'm baffled that this is taking priority in the news over Ukraine, Syria and Venezuela :(

GonzoTheGreat
03-17-2014, 03:41 AM
Maybe it's linked to that?
I have to admit that I do not quite know how, though.

Ishara
03-17-2014, 07:30 AM
Agreed, yks.

It *did* remind me of the Clive Cussler novel with Dirk Pitt, where a whole bunch of international diplomats staying on a fancy yacht were kidnapped for days when the terrorists hijacked the yacht and sailed it to sounthern Chile, moored up against an iceberg, covered the outside of the ship in sheets of thin plastic and sprayed that with water - resulting in ice. Basically, they turned the yacht into a piece of the iceberg, thus eluding radar and satellite photos. Clever.

Similar to the theory that this (past?) winter has been a gigantic marjeting scheme for Disney's Frozen, it feels to me like a good time for the creators of Lost to re-release the box set, no?

It's just all so fishy!

Davian93
03-17-2014, 07:45 AM
Personally, I'm baffled that this is taking priority in the news over Ukraine, Syria and Venezuela :(

Something happened in Ukraine?!? Had no idea.

Uno
03-17-2014, 07:03 PM
UFO?

ShadowbaneX
03-17-2014, 07:13 PM
UFO?

Yeah, I was gonna go with Aliens as well.

Uno
03-17-2014, 07:29 PM
Yeah, I was gonna go with Aliens as well.

Doesn't have to be aliens, I suppose. Could be that the Men in Black got them because they saw a UFO. Or Knights Templar working with the Men in Black.

Davian93
03-17-2014, 07:41 PM
I was thinking some sort of guerilla marketing campaign for a Lost sequel...

Zombie Sammael
03-17-2014, 08:03 PM
This is Theoryland for goodness sake. LET'S HEAR SOME!!!!

It was Demandred.

Khoram
03-17-2014, 08:57 PM
This is Theoryland for goodness sake. LET'S HEAR SOME!!!!

Authorities have actually found the plane. It was hijacked by a pro-Russia Crimean, who landed it in Sevastopol. This is how we can account for the numbers that yks posted in the Ukraine thread. Especially considering there were Mexicans packed away in the cargo hold illegally.

:p

Uno
03-17-2014, 09:21 PM
Authorities have actually found the plane. It was hijacked by a pro-Russia Crimean, who landed it in Sevastopol. This is how we can account for the numbers that yks posted in the Ukraine thread. Especially considering there were Mexicans packed away in the cargo hold illegally.

Putinandred?

ShadowbaneX
03-18-2014, 12:34 AM
Doesn't have to be aliens, but that's what I'm laying my money on.

ShadowbaneX
03-18-2014, 12:37 AM
http://i.imgur.com/bUbOT5k.jpg

SauceyBlueConfetti
03-18-2014, 02:36 PM
Saw this today, found it interesting... link for the actual article, copied for those click-inhibited folks
A Startling Simple Theory About the Missing Malaysia Jet (http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/)

A Startling Simple Theory About the Missing Malaysia Jet

There has been a lot of speculation about Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. Terrorism, hijacking, meteors. I cannot believe the analysis on CNN; it’s almost disturbing. I tend to look for a simpler explanation, and I find it with the 13,000-foot runway at Pulau Langkawi.

We know the story of MH370: A loaded Boeing 777 departs at midnight from Kuala Lampur, headed to Beijing. A hot night. A heavy aircraft. About an hour out, across the gulf toward Vietnam, the plane goes dark, meaning the transponder and secondary radar tracking go off. Two days later we hear reports that Malaysian military radar (which is a primary radar, meaning the plane is tracked by reflection rather than by transponder interrogation response) has tracked the plane on a southwesterly course back across the Malay Peninsula into the Strait of Malacca.

The loss of transponders and communications makes perfect sense in a fire.

When I heard this I immediately brought up Google Earth and searched for airports in proximity to the track toward the southwest.

The left turn is the key here. Zaharie Ahmad Shah1 was a very experienced senior captain with 18,000 hours of flight time. We old pilots were drilled to know what is the closest airport of safe harbor while in cruise. Airports behind us, airports abeam us, and airports ahead of us. They’re always in our head. Always. If something happens, you don’t want to be thinking about what are you going to do–you already know what you are going to do. When I saw that left turn with a direct heading, I instinctively knew he was heading for an airport. He was taking a direct route to Palau Langkawi, a 13,000-foot airstrip with an approach over water and no obstacles. The captain did not turn back to Kuala Lampur because he knew he had 8,000-foot ridges to cross. He knew the terrain was friendlier toward Langkawi, which also was closer.

Take a look at this airport on Google Earth. The pilot did all the right things. He was confronted by some major event onboard that made him make an immediate turn to the closest, safest airport.

For me, the loss of transponders and communications makes perfect sense in a fire. And there most likely was an electrical fire. In the case of a fire, the first response is to pull the main busses and restore circuits one by one until you have isolated the bad one. If they pulled the busses, the plane would go silent. It probably was a serious event and the flight crew was occupied with controlling the plane and trying to fight the fire. Aviate, navigate, and lastly, communicate is the mantra in such situations.

There are two types of fires. An electrical fire might not be as fast and furious, and there may or may not be incapacitating smoke. However there is the possibility, given the timeline, that there was an overheat on one of the front landing gear tires, it blew on takeoff and started slowly burning. Yes, this happens with underinflated tires. Remember: Heavy plane, hot night, sea level, long-run takeoff. There was a well known accident in Nigeria of a DC8 that had a landing gear fire on takeoff. Once going, a tire fire would produce horrific, incapacitating smoke. Yes, pilots have access to oxygen masks, but this is a no-no with fire. Most have access to a smoke hood with a filter, but this will last only a few minutes depending on the smoke level. (I used to carry one in my flight bag, and I still carry one in my briefcase when I fly.)

What I think happened is the flight crew was overcome by smoke and the plane continued on the heading, probably on George (autopilot), until it ran out of fuel or the fire destroyed the control surfaces and it crashed. You will find it along that route–looking elsewhere is pointless.

lang-660

Ongoing speculation of a hijacking and/or murder-suicide and that there was a flight engineer on board does not sway me in favor of foul play until I am presented with evidence of foul play.

We know there was a last voice transmission that, from a pilot’s point of view, was entirely normal. “Good night” is customary on a hand-off to a new air traffic control. The “good night” also strongly indicates to me that all was OK on the flight deck. Remember, there are many ways a pilot can communicate distress. A hijack code or even transponder code off by one digit would alert ATC that something was wrong. Every good pilot knows keying an SOS over the mike always is an option. Even three short clicks would raise an alert. So I conclude that at the point of voice transmission all was perceived as well on the flight deck by the pilots.

But things could have been in the process of going wrong, unknown to the pilots.

Evidently the ACARS went inoperative some time before. Disabling the ACARS is not easy, as pointed out. This leads me to believe more in an electrical problem or an electrical fire than a manual shutdown. I suggest the pilots probably were not aware ACARS was not transmitting.

As for the reports of altitude fluctuations, given that this was not transponder-generated data but primary radar at maybe 200 miles, the azimuth readings can be affected by a lot of atmospherics and I would not have high confidence in this being totally reliable. But let’s accept for a minute that the pilot may have ascended to 45,000 feet in a last-ditch effort to quell a fire by seeking the lowest level of oxygen. That is an acceptable scenario. At 45,000 feet, it would be tough to keep this aircraft stable, as the flight envelope is very narrow and loss of control in a stall is entirely possible. The aircraft is at the top of its operational ceiling. The reported rapid rates of descent could have been generated by a stall, followed by a recovery at 25,000 feet. The pilot may even have been diving to extinguish flames.

But going to 45,000 feet in a hijack scenario doesn’t make any good sense to me.

Regarding the additional flying time: On departing Kuala Lampur, Flight 370 would have had fuel for Beijing and an alternate destination, probably Shanghai, plus 45 minutes–say, 8 hours. Maybe more. He burned 20-25 percent in the first hour with takeoff and the climb to cruise. So when the turn was made toward Langkawi, he would have had six hours or more hours worth of fuel. This correlates nicely with the Inmarsat data pings being received until fuel exhaustion.

Fire in an aircraft demands one thing: Get the machine on the ground as soon as possible.

The now known continued flight until time to fuel exhaustion only confirms to me that the crew was incapacitated and the flight continued on deep into the south Indian ocean.

There is no point speculating further until more evidence surfaces, but in the meantime it serves no purpose to malign pilots who well may have been in a struggle to save this aircraft from a fire or other serious mechanical issue. Capt. Zaharie Ahmad Shah was a hero struggling with an impossible situation trying to get that plane to Langkawi. There is no doubt in my mind. That’s the reason for the turn and direct route. A hijacking would not have made that deliberate left turn with a direct heading for Langkawi. It probably would have weaved around a bit until the hijackers decided where they were taking it.

Surprisingly, none of the reporters, officials, or other pilots interviewed have looked at this from the pilot’s viewpoint: If something went wrong, where would he go? Thanks to Google Earth I spotted Langkawi in about 30 seconds, zoomed in and saw how long the runway was and I just instinctively knew this pilot knew this airport. He had probably flown there many times.

Fire in an aircraft demands one thing: Get the machine on the ground as soon as possible. There are two well-remembered experiences in my memory. The AirCanada DC9 which landed, I believe, in Columbus, Ohio in the 1980s. That pilot delayed descent and bypassed several airports. He didn’t instinctively know the closest airports. He got it on the ground eventually, but lost 30-odd souls. The 1998 crash of Swissair DC-10 off Nova Scotia was another example of heroic pilots. They were 15 minutes out of Halifax but the fire overcame them and they had to ditch in the ocean. They simply ran out of time. That fire incidentally started when the aircraft was about an hour out of Kennedy. Guess what? The transponders and communications were shut off as they pulled the busses.

Get on Google Earth and type in Pulau Langkawi and then look at it in relation to the radar track heading. Two plus two equals four. For me, that is the simple explanation why it turned and headed in that direction. Smart pilot. He just didn’t have the time.

Khoram
03-18-2014, 09:42 PM
Saw this today, found it interesting... link for the actual article, copied for those click-inhibited folks
A Startling Simple Theory About the Missing Malaysia Jet (http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/)

TL;DR



:p

I still prefer my theory. :D

Davian93
03-19-2014, 10:27 AM
bullcrap story...they still would have maydayed in that scenario and they wouldn't have turned off the transponder like that (it has redundencies). None of that explanation is legit...as much as the "expert" wants it to be. The radars indicated that the plane went well below radar level and then stayed there for hours...what would be the point of that again? Other than to avoid tracking.


Also, the new reports are indicating the course change was pre-programmed into the plane's navigation computer BEFORE that final radio sign-off of "Good Night". ALmost had to be deliberate by the pilots...thus, its a hijacking.

SauceyBlueConfetti
03-19-2014, 12:21 PM
Personally, I'm baffled that this is taking priority in the news over Ukraine, Syria and Venezuela :(

I thought quite a bit about this the last few days. Fox News is bashing CNN for precisely this...making a mountain out of a molehill while other horrific events are occurring. FOX NEWS. Criticizing others for the FOCUS. That irony is in itself mindboggling. But anyway...

I can't really speak to the WHY of networks focusing on this, but I can explain my own feelings. Watching Putin and the escalation of eyebrow raising things occurring in Ukraine are just that...WATCHING. This man has been an obvious borderline to certifiable nutcake for a while, and in charge of one of most historically aggressive countries in the world. The controls here are all political, and we have no explanation for those. Never do. It is hard enough to get the truth out of governments as it is, but questioning them during this situation leads nowhere. They won't tell us. So we can only sit and watch. I think most folks on this board ARE watching it. The networks know that a vast majority of people (sadly) care little for world politics and couldn't point to Ukraine on a map.

Now, taking that into consideration, most folks have been on an airplane. What happened on 9/11 made a big impact on people in the U.S. (I won't speak for other countries). It came very clear that something almost ALL of us have done, will do, or do on a regular basis--fly--just became a seriously dangerous thing, not just for ourselves but for the country. And here is the issue...do we have control? In the Ukraine, no, we don't. I think most people feel that way. I, me, myself, can do very little. Ok, now take an airplane full of people and have something unknown happen. Pilot hijack? Stranger hijack? Electrical fire? Whatever it was, it holds our interest. Because we WANT to know what happened to allow us to imagine what me, myself and I would do in those situations. Control. The plane that crashed in Pennsylvania on 9/11 goes through all of our thoughts now when we get on a plane. OK. What would I do now? So, the plane of innocents who have just "poof" disappeared are intriguing. We WANT to know. It is much more relative to the general public's daily life.

Dunno if that is good, bad or sad, but I think it is a valid explanation.

Davian93
03-19-2014, 12:34 PM
Most Americans' extent of knowledge on Ukraine:

http://thenextfootballsuperstar.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/f3b87_TNFS_ukraine-not-weak.jpeg


I also agree that people like mysteries and they hold our interest...which is why we are getting round the clock coverage of the plane mystery and nearly zero info on Ukraine, Venezeula, Syria, etc etc. None of that matters to Americans as we are a disgustingly insular people with very limited interests.


Maybe Putin had the plane hijacked to distract us from his aggression (which no one is calling a war yet despite it being an aggresive invasion and annexation of another country with military troops involved).

Southpaw2012
03-19-2014, 01:15 PM
Illuminati

yks 6nnetu hing
03-20-2014, 02:35 AM
I think it's also those videos of grieving family members - it's a very visual pain that most people can identify with.

Or, like Stalin said: "one death is a tragedy, a million: statistics"

and it's true. We as humans focus much more on the individual stories - Malala or Mandela get our attention because they *could* be you or me. But most people cannot even imagine what it would be like to hear a knock on your door in the middle of the night and being told that you and your family have 30 minutes to pack for a one-way trip to Siberia. And then see that the same guy is knocking on your neighbour's door while your other neighbours are already standidng on the street. It's free will, too - you either pack or you get a bullet in your head. totes up to you.




ps. I may be a bit... emotional because that fecking Wilders (http://www.thestate.com/2014/03/19/3336026/dutch-politician-wilders-leads.html) guy got a whole crowd chanting "less Maroccans" last night. Though, I gotta say, overall I'm pretty happy with the results of the elections - the Christian party is still pretty big and sadly the rabid socialists won votes while the moderate socialists lost votes but the big winners were centrist-democrats (D66) who've been campaigning for better education... which is never a bad idea.

GonzoTheGreat
03-20-2014, 03:44 AM
I recently thought of something: the NSA and such got a lot more resources and a lot less supervision because of what happened on 9/11, didn't they?
Then some airplanes suddenly and unexpected were diverted from their normal course, and the result was so bad that the American people were willing to let their secret services take a lot of measures aimed at reducing or even removing the risk of a repeat. Well, now we have a repeat: once again an airplane has been diverted. As far as we know, the NSA and its massive surveillance programs are totally useless here, proving beyond reasonable doubt that they aim at violating the rights of people, rather than at protecting people.

Of course, it is possible that the NSA does know precisely what happened to the plane but can't tell us for security reasons. Is that a happy thought?

Nazbaque
03-20-2014, 05:00 AM
ps. I may be a bit... emotional because that fecking Wilders (http://www.thestate.com/2014/03/19/3336026/dutch-politician-wilders-leads.html) guy got a whole crowd chanting "less Maroccans" last night. Though, I gotta say, overall I'm pretty happy with the results of the elections - the Christian party is still pretty big and sadly the rabid socialists won votes while the moderate socialists lost votes but the big winners were centrist-democrats (D66) who've been campaigning for better education... which is never a bad idea.

Should we start a "no more idiots" chant and then start the culling with those who shout the loudest. I mean they would approve right.

Isabel
03-20-2014, 11:04 AM
Should we start a "no more idiots" chant and then start the culling with those who shout the loudest. I mean they would approve right.


Yeah wilders is horrible:( i am really ashamed to be the same nationality as him.

GonzoTheGreat
03-20-2014, 11:28 AM
Yeah wilders is horrible:( i am really ashamed to be the same nationality as him.
Oh well, he only has a minority of the voters behind him. If he were Russian, he would have either no votes or all votes.

Terez
03-21-2014, 08:58 AM
This story has honestly not gripped me very much. Fortunately I'm already in the habit of watching my news shows online so I can skip the segments I don't care much about. Yes, it's very tragic and horrible that all these people are missing and probably dead, but the news coverage of the story has been pretty desperately struggling to come up with stuff to talk about when there is little or no evidence to work with, and thus it all becomes very repetitive and banal.

I do appreciate a good mystery, but a good mystery needs good clues. I have been enjoying following the Christie scandals for exactly that reason; the motive for shutting down the GWB access lanes is still unclear, but there is one really good hypothesis that I think will become more fleshed out and solid as the investigations go on, and there has been a steady stream of new and interesting details.