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View Full Version : GoT vs. aSoIaF (Just Assume Spoilers)


Davian93
04-21-2014, 10:31 AM
So, we're really starting to see some serious divergence between the novels and the tv show.

Anyone have any thoughts on that?

Couple of things:

1. Davos contacting the Iron Bank in Stannis's name...pretty major change from the books.

2. Jon Snow proposing the attack on the Black Watch rebels at Craster's Keep

That's just two moderate ones. They also wrote out Ilyn Payne (the actor playing him has terminal cancer so they didn't recast out of respect for him) and have seemingly cast Bronn in the Jaime & Bronn Road Show instead...which I'm okay with because Bronn is just awesome.

And so far, Dany is just as godawful boring in the show as she is in the books.

Any other thoughts?

Kimon
04-21-2014, 01:28 PM
I'd have a couple of questions regarding divergences:

-Why is the Hound still alive?
-Where are the Kettleblacks?
-Will Val be completely omitted?
-How are they going to handle adapting the 4th book, considering the absence of Tyrion, and the dullness of the plots surrounding both Dany and the kingsmoot? Hopefully they merge and massively condense books 4 and 5.

Davian93
04-21-2014, 01:41 PM
I'd have a couple of questions regarding divergences:

-Why is the Hound still alive?
-Where are the Kettleblacks?
-Will Val be completely omitted?
-How are they going to handle adapting the 4th book, considering the absence of Tyrion, and the dullness of the plots surrounding both Dany and the kingsmoot? Hopefully they merge and massively condense books 4 and 5.

The Hound: Because they realized sending Arya to Braavos by herself wouldn't work on tv...and because he's not dead in the books either.

Kettleblacks were clearly written out of the show the same way Loras' two other brothers were written out.

Val? Yes, probably.

They already said they're going to do it chronologically and basically turn Books 4 & 5 into a couple seasons total...I'd imagine they'll go off on their own quite a bit due to the stupidity/boringness of those plotlines.

bowlwoman
04-21-2014, 01:58 PM
They already said they're going to do it chronologically and basically turn Books 4 & 5 into a couple seasons total...I'd imagine they'll go off on their own quite a bit due to the stupidity/boringness of those plotlines.

Besides, they have to give GRRM time to actually *finish* the series... I'm sure he has a contract out there that gives him at least a couple of years to get more writers block, go to more conventions...that kind of thing.

Kimon
04-21-2014, 02:04 PM
Admittedly, he never clearly stated that the Hound was dead, just implied it, but he hasn't shown up since Arya ditched him while wounded after that fight at the inn. Not sure what use he could have in Braavos, unless they decide to make him a priest at the House of Black and White as well. That would be odd.

If they omit the Kettleblacks, who will try to seduce Margaery? Bronn?

As for Val, I suppose she could be excised without too much trouble. Though that probably means also omitting Dalla's child and the switching of infants.

I'm also not sure why they felt it necessary to alter Shae's storyline. Softening her reason for betraying Tyrion would seem potentially disastrous considering what should still happen in the last episode of this season.

rand
04-21-2014, 03:21 PM
Brienne ran into the Hound in book 4 working as a gravedigger in a sept. The Elder Brother more or less tells Brienne that Sandor is still alive, though he does it in such a convuluted way that it goes right over her head.

A few changes I've thought were bad and/or odd:

Having Drogo rape Dany and Jaime rape Cersei. Not sure why these were necessary changes.

I'm also wondering if having Robb's wife get killed will make much of a difference. In the book, people have specualted that she switched places with her younger sister (who Jaime sees at Riverrun) and has in fact escaped Riverrun with the Blackfish and is carrying Robb's son. But since Robb named Jon his heir, this may not matter much for either the book or the show.



I'm also wondering what they'll need to do to make books 4-5 more interesting. Bran and Sansa don't really do anything in the books, so the show will basically have to invent things for them to do.

There are several battle scenes they could emphasize more in the show. Victarion actually gets into a bunch of sea battles, so they could include a lot of that if their budget allows. Quentyn participates in a big battle at Astapor, though this is only seen in a flashback. They could highlight some of the single-combats a bit more: Areo Hotah vs. Arys Oakheart, Barristan vs. the pitfighter guy, etc.

Davian93
04-21-2014, 03:33 PM
Having Drogo rape Dany and Jaime rape Cersei. Not sure why these were necessary changes.

I'd imagine in both cases they wanted to avoid the very dangerous "see, it wasn't rape because she ended up enjoying it" issue...as both weren't exactly 100% consensual sex by current standards.

Mort
04-23-2014, 10:50 AM
They could highlight some of the single-combats a bit more: Areo Hotah vs. Arys Oakheart

I hope they skip the whole thing. The whole storyline.

It's not often you hope for an adaption to fix a lot of stuff in the books. Usually it's all about having them not break stuff.

Davian93
04-23-2014, 11:12 AM
I hope they skip the whole thing. The whole storyline.

It's not often you hope for an adaption to fix a lot of stuff in the books. Usually it's all about having them not break stuff.

Another great thing they should probably get rid of: Pretty much ALL of Dance with Dragons...especially the two stupid "Lets take the longest fvcking route to Meereen possible" for both Tyrion and Quentyn. Good lord, that was brutal for both of them. Given that Jorah Mormont is apparently not being exiled, hopefully that's a good sign that those plotlines will be utterly eliminated or massively modified given that they along with the Dany subplot are some of the most boring writing ever committed to paper.

I hate to say this too but hopefully the get rid of the whole "Young Griff/Prince Aegon" subplot too and have that invasion just be Dany with her dragons.

rand
04-23-2014, 11:36 AM
It looks like the Dorne subplot and the Aegon subplot will be merged in Winds of Winter. Since Dany killed Quentyn instead of marrying him (she didn't, but that's how Dorne will see it) they'll settle for the next best thing, Aegon, who is conveniently already in Westeros. Arianne is already on her way to see him. A lot of people think that, by the end of Winds of Winter, Aegon and the Dornish will have taken over King's Landing and Aegon will be on the Iron Throne.

So, assuming this does happen, including both subplots would be pretty necessary.

Personally, my problem with the Dornish plot is that it's told by weird PoVs. Instead of Areo Hotah and Arys Oakheart, the whole thing should have just been Arianne's PoV.

Terez
04-23-2014, 12:28 PM
I have been trying to figure out why Davos thought it was such a good idea to contact the Iron Bank. Stannis shouldn't have any leverage with them until after Tywin dies and the throne stops paying its debt. He's still alive for now.

The extra rape just reflects the juvenile way these guys approach the production of the show. It's like they didn't consider Jamie's character development at all.

SauceyBlueConfetti
04-23-2014, 12:35 PM
The extra rape just reflects the juvenile way these guys approach the production of the show. It's like they didn't consider Jamie's character development at all.

Exactly.


Instead of showing Jaime growing more introspective they are making him pissy an more egotistical. And don't even get me started on the portrayal(s) all along of Cersei and the focus on her being such a caring mother. NOT HERE JAIME, PLEASE NOT HERE! Whatever.

Watching Joff die was entertaining though, I will admit that much.

And YES, please remove the "longest fvcking route to Meereen" plotline from the show.

Davian93
04-23-2014, 02:25 PM
I have been trying to figure out why Davos thought it was such a good idea to contact the Iron Bank. Stannis shouldn't have any leverage with them until after Tywin dies and the throne stops paying its debt. He's still alive for now.

The extra rape just reflects the juvenile way these guys approach the production of the show. It's like they didn't consider Jamie's character development at all.

I thought on the show that they had already stopped paying the Iron Bank (I thought it happened at the very end of Season 3 actually)...didnt Olenna comment on the issue to Tywin in the first or second episode of this season if he was worried about them or not?

It would make sense if that's the case. I gotta be honest, I dont recall specifically.

Zaela Sedai
04-24-2014, 06:01 PM
It's not often you hope for an adaption to fix a lot of stuff in the books. Usually it's all about having them not break stuff.

This. I keep telling myself I need to reread... but then it's like "why?". I'd rather HBO give me my satisfaction and not even read the rest of aSoIaF. But we all know that won't ACTUALLY happen. Rereads though? Why.. I'll just rewatch!

Terez
04-26-2014, 08:11 PM
I thought on the show that they had already stopped paying the Iron Bank (I thought it happened at the very end of Season 3 actually)...didnt Olenna comment on the issue to Tywin in the first or second episode of this season if he was worried about them or not?

It would make sense if that's the case. I gotta be honest, I dont recall specifically.
That is possible. I don't remember it if so. Wasn't Tyrion Master of Coin at the time? Seems inconsistent.

Davian93
04-26-2014, 08:46 PM
That is possible. I don't remember it if so. Wasn't Tyrion Master of Coin at the time? Seems inconsistent.

I vaguely recall it being Cersei's decision.

Mort
04-27-2014, 12:13 PM
http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Iron_Bank_of_Braavos

A Feast for Crows

Queen Cersei and the small council decides to defer payments on the loans they have from the Iron Bank. Pycelle is the only one who objects and tries to warn her of the problems it will cause, but Cersei rejects his advice.[1] In response to the Iron Throne's decision, the Iron Bank begins calling in outstanding debts from all over the Seven Kingdoms and refusing all new loans, causing economic chaos throughout Westeros.[6] Noho Dimittis was sent by the Bank to the Iron Throne to collect the debt, and was told by Queen Cersei at an audience that the Iron Bank would only get its money when the rebellions were quashed.[7]

Terez
04-27-2014, 07:55 PM
Yeah, it was definitely Cersei's decision in the books...but after Tyrion was gone (no longer Master of Coin) and Tywin was dead. That made more sense than her trying to get away with it while Tywin is still alive.

Kimon
04-27-2014, 09:30 PM
Anyone else surprised by how much original material showed up tonight?

Oh, and looks like any chance of Coldhands showing up is quickly approaching a probability of zero. I suppose the green dreams were considered sufficient for getting Bran and company to the Children.

Terez
04-28-2014, 01:03 AM
I don't know about Coldhands. I think they're just trying to give Bran more stuff to do since his plotline is so thin for the next couple of seasons. There is still a chance Coldhands will come into it at some point, especially if it's important to the plot. Also, they're trying to make Tyrion's trial last the whole season. It needs some filler.

Sarevok
04-28-2014, 04:23 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if the save Coldhands for season 4. Otherwise his plot in season 3 won't be much different from season 4.

rand
04-28-2014, 12:50 PM
iirc, Coldhands actually does kill all the Night's Watch deserters from Craster's Keep in aDwD. So it's possible he'll still show up.

I guess it also depends on what GRRM has Coldhands doing. If what we've seen of him so far in the books is it, they could easily cut him out. It also seems unlikely that he's somehow Benjen Stark or something. So it could really go either way depending on what GRRM's plans are for him in the future.

Terez
04-28-2014, 02:29 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if the save Coldhands for season 4. Otherwise his plot in season 3 won't be much different from season 4.
This is season 4. :p

Mort
04-28-2014, 04:12 PM
iirc, Coldhands actually does kill all the Night's Watch deserters from Craster's Keep in aDwD. So it's possible he'll still show up.

I guess it also depends on what GRRM has Coldhands doing. If what we've seen of him so far in the books is it, they could easily cut him out. It also seems unlikely that he's somehow Benjen Stark or something. So it could really go either way depending on what GRRM's plans are for him in the future.

I didn't even remember Coldhands doing that. Didn't remember Bran being caught either, unless they added it? Need to go look at some summaries and see what actually happened.

Kimon
04-28-2014, 06:19 PM
I didn't even remember Coldhands doing that. Didn't remember Bran being caught either, unless they added it? Need to go look at some summaries and see what actually happened.

He should have showed up first in leading Sam and Gilly through the Nightfort, and have extracted from Sam the promise to tell no one about Bran surviving. He then joined up with Bran, left them briefly to kill the deserters at Craster's on his own - Bran saw this through Summer's eyes. Instead, Jon now knows that Bran is alive and is headed to Craster's to deal with the deserters himself, and both Bran's posse and Ghost are randomly made captive by the deserters. Unless Coldhands shows up out of nowhere, seems like all his activities in the plot of the show are being replaced. At first I thought the vague images of the that undead rider shown in previews might have been him, but not only was that clearly just trolling by HBO, and instead that was of the leader of the Others, but now HBO seems to be hinting that that Other might be the original Night's King.

https://ca.celebrity.yahoo.com/blogs/celebrity-news/did-hbo-accidentally-reveal-major-game-thrones-spoiler-131359625.html

SauceyBlueConfetti
04-28-2014, 07:26 PM
MAJOR SPOILER FOR THE BOOKS AND SHOW IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN IT (http://io9.com/this-accidental-game-of-thrones-spoiler-just-changed-1568796246?utm_campaign=socialflow_io9_facebook&utm_source=io9_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow)

In regards to the White Walker at the end. Forewarned

Davian93
04-28-2014, 08:07 PM
MAJOR SPOILER FOR THE BOOKS AND SHOW IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN IT (http://io9.com/this-accidental-game-of-thrones-spoiler-just-changed-1568796246?utm_campaign=socialflow_io9_facebook&utm_source=io9_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow)

In regards to the White Walker at the end. Forewarned

Yeah, I noticed that watching and then read it afterward. Awesome.

rand
04-28-2014, 11:43 PM
Huh, that's interesting. For what it's worth, one of the leading theories on Coldhand's identity seems to be that he's the Night's King. So I guess it might still be possible that the Other Leader = Night's King = Coldhands. If he has a role to play later in the series, they could just skip over his interactions with Bran altogether.

I don't really remember if there are any other candidates for who Coldhands could be. People thought Benjen for a while, but this seems to have been shot down by the Children of the Forest calling him "very old" (or something like that).

For what it's worth, I'm glad the Night's King is still around in any case. The chapter when Bran and co. go to the Nightfort and he recalls all the stories from it is one of my favorite chapters in the series.

Terez
05-05-2014, 02:33 AM
So I guess Cersei hasn't yet ordered a default on the Bank of Braavos debt, which puts us back at square one on making sense of Davos's motive for contacting them.

Davian93
05-05-2014, 12:09 PM
So I guess Cersei hasn't yet ordered a default on the Bank of Braavos debt, which puts us back at square one on making sense of Davos's motive for contacting them.

Yeah, who knows at this point...maybe they have to give Stannis something to do for this season given that not much else is going on.


Dany is even more boring on the show than she was in the books.

I did think the revelation that the Lannisters are actually broke was quite interesting. I imagine they could probably keep up appearances for quite a while given the amount of loans they have outstanding with debtors but they might want to think about getting their hands on a soulcaster ASAP to fix this issue.

Southpaw2012
05-05-2014, 04:11 PM
I enjoyed Stannis in the books but his role in the show has been god-awful. I can only imagine how they are going to connect where he is now to randomly showing up north of the Wall later this season.

Terez
05-12-2014, 07:03 AM
So, it all hinges on Tywin being old. Pretty lame, but they get to set up the Iron Bank for having made a smart bet that will pay off by the end of the season.

Terez
05-19-2014, 11:06 AM
Last night's episode was one of the best of the entire show, I think. How many people didn't cry in the Oberyn-Tyrion scene?

One does have to wonder, though, who will take the blame for Lysa's death.

Davian93
05-20-2014, 10:10 AM
Last night's episode was one of the best of the entire show, I think. How many people didn't cry in the Oberyn-Tyrion scene?

One does have to wonder, though, who will take the blame for Lysa's death.

Just phenomenal acting displayed by both men in that scene. Dinklage has to have locked up his Emmy and probably Golden Globe with that effort.


Yeah, I was wondering about that myself on Lysa...will they say she slipped? I mean seriously, that seems a bit questionable to me. Maybe say that Robin was there and got mad at Mommy? Seems like a mistake to not have the minstrel present like in the books.

Southpaw2012
05-20-2014, 01:44 PM
The preview for the next episode seemed to indicate that LF could be in some hot water with the minor lords. I don't remember him getting called out in the books, or am I forgetting?

Terez
05-20-2014, 05:43 PM
Just phenomenal acting displayed by both men in that scene. Dinklage has to have locked up his Emmy and probably Golden Globe with that effort.
Yes, props to Pedro Pascal too. The way he said, "What about what I want?" was perfect. Show fans are going to die all over again week after next...but of course they're more worried that Tyrion is going to die at this point (which would only result from Oberyn losing, which they don't seem to put much thought into). Oberyn probably doesn't really win you over (hard to remember, at this point, but I'm guessing) until he confronts Gregor. You fall in love with him and then lose him in the same scene. And then showfans will freak out thinking Tyrion is going to die, and we probably won't get the escape/Tywin until the next ep.....though it's hard to pull off a split in terms of momentum.

I read that Pascal was a showfan before he auditioned for the part of Oberyn, and he was dismayed to learn that his script was full of spoilers.

Southpaw2012
05-20-2014, 11:14 PM
Yes, props to Pedro Pascal too. The way he said, "What about what I want?" was perfect. Show fans are going to die all over again week after next...but of course they're more worried that Tyrion is going to die at this point (which would only result from Oberyn losing, which they don't seem to put much thought into). Oberyn probably doesn't really win you over (hard to remember, at this point, but I'm guessing) until he confronts Gregor. You fall in love with him and then lose him in the same scene. And then showfans will freak out thinking Tyrion is going to die, and we probably won't get the escape/Tywin until the next ep.....though it's hard to pull off a split in terms of momentum.

I read that Pascal was a showfan before he auditioned for the part of Oberyn, and he was dismayed to learn that his script was full of spoilers.


I'm curious as to why he hasn't been called the Red Viper yet...

Davian93
05-21-2014, 10:06 AM
Yes, props to Pedro Pascal too. The way he said, "What about what I want?" was perfect. Show fans are going to die all over again week after next...but of course they're more worried that Tyrion is going to die at this point (which would only result from Oberyn losing, which they don't seem to put much thought into). Oberyn probably doesn't really win you over (hard to remember, at this point, but I'm guessing) until he confronts Gregor. You fall in love with him and then lose him in the same scene. And then showfans will freak out thinking Tyrion is going to die, and we probably won't get the escape/Tywin until the next ep.....though it's hard to pull off a split in terms of momentum.

I read that Pascal was a showfan before he auditioned for the part of Oberyn, and he was dismayed to learn that his script was full of spoilers.

Yes, Pascal was pretty much PERFECT casting of a part...just amazing. I'm gonna be devastated when he dies next week...and I know its coming.

Terez
05-21-2014, 02:36 PM
YOU RAPED HER! YOU KILLED HER! YOU MURDERED HER CHILDREN!

SauceyBlueConfetti
05-21-2014, 03:26 PM
Yes, Pascal was pretty much PERFECT casting of a part...just amazing. I'm gonna be devastated when he dies next week...and I know its coming.

One of my favorite
1. characters
2. scenes
3. stage setters (the girls are coming, the girls are coming)
4. and yes, the actor is FABULOUS! That was one character I thought, please don't fuck up the casting...

which in turn leads to...

The casting of The Mountain is disappointing. Could be different once I see how he handles the next few bits, but his facial features and body type were a disappointment. The Mountain has a baby face? Really???

We shall see though, they have surprised me (in a good way) with many of the story lines and casting.

We shall see.

Davian93
05-22-2014, 07:51 AM
YOU RAPED HER! YOU KILLED HER! YOU MURDERED HER CHILDREN!

For me, his death was worse than the Red Wedding...I didnt even like Cat and Robb so I was kinda happy when that happened.

I loved Oberyn...such an awesome character. Damn you GRRM!!!

Zaela Sedai
05-23-2014, 07:34 PM
The casting of The Mountain is disappointing. Could be different once I see how he handles the next few bits, but his facial features and body type were a disappointment. The Mountain has a baby face? Really???


Definitely the best scene yet...

I more imagine The Big Show for the Mountain. or at least that type of look...don't think he woulda been any worse lol.

Kimon
06-01-2014, 10:20 PM
Last night's episode was one of the best of the entire show, I think. How many people didn't cry in the Oberyn-Tyrion scene?

One does have to wonder, though, who will take the blame for Lysa's death.

This episode certainly continued the trend of straying from the source material, raising a few questions...

How will the show decides to handle the alteration of having the lords of the vale knowing who Sansa is? Will they just all agree to keep that a secret? Will they declare support for Stannis? Will they declare Robin the King of the Vale??

Will Arya and Sansa now meet before she heads off for Braavos?

What will they do with the Hound? Will they have him stay in the Vale with Sansa? Will he go to Braavos with Arya? Will Arya ditch him after his wound continues to fester?

Terez
06-02-2014, 09:32 AM
Was anyone else underwhelmed with the Oberyn fight?

Southpaw2012
06-02-2014, 09:58 AM
Nope. I thought the camera angles were funky at times but I thought the fight was cool.

Mort
06-02-2014, 10:19 AM
Was anyone else underwhelmed with the Oberyn fight?

No. I was never that overwhelmed by the fight in the book to begin with. It was good and I liked the Red Viper as a character but I think I like the TV version a lot... better? A million years since I read it.

Maybe the fight got hyped more in the books? Calling the Red Viper basically a legendary fighter and whatnot.

I feel kinda bad for the tv viewers now. They must think the Mountain is just slightly wounded (although a spear to the gut can never be a small thing, but he IS THE MOUNTAIN!) :)

I wonder if they had a few minutes to fill when they decided to use that "why did he smash beetles with a rock" thing.

Terez
06-02-2014, 06:27 PM
My aunt and uncle thought that Gregor was dead, since he plopped back down after he killed Oberyn. I have seen reactions on YouTube, too, where people thought he was dead. One guy said "So it's a draw?"

Sarevok
06-03-2014, 06:00 AM
Since I couldn't remember the outcome, I too presumed he was dead and it seems kinda premature for Tywin to condemn Tyrion before at least making sure.
Considering the episode cut off right there, it's probably an intentional editing choice to leave his fate hanging for a bit.

Davian93
06-05-2014, 02:46 PM
Was anyone else underwhelmed with the Oberyn fight?

No, I thought they did it pretty well.

Davian93
06-05-2014, 02:47 PM
Since I couldn't remember the outcome, I too presumed he was dead and it seems kinda premature for Tywin to condemn Tyrion before at least making sure.
Considering the episode cut off right there, it's probably an intentional editing choice to leave his fate hanging for a bit.

Wouldn't have mattered as Oberyn died first so Tyrion is guilty even if the Mountain died 2 seconds later.

What a horrible death for Oberyn BTW...pretty graphic even knowing it was coming.

Terez
06-05-2014, 03:47 PM
I'm going to watch the season finale with my unsullied aunt and uncle. So excited! They really took the death of Oberyn in stride. I had a Facebook friend who was all I'M OUT after the last episode, and I had to talk him out of quitting, along with several other book-reading friends of his. I told him it would be as if he watched the red wedding and then skipped the purple one.

Mort
06-16-2014, 09:28 AM
As The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2014/jun/16/game-of-thrones-season-finale-fire-and-ice) states it:

"The task now facing Benioff and Weiss is daunting. How to keep the show going, and maintain its standard of excellence, when its best moments are behind it?"

They are gonna have to go off the books a lot now to keep next season interesting. All plotlines from here on are either irrelevant or just plain boring. Or both.

I can't think of one thing that I'll be excited to see next :(

rand
06-16-2014, 12:42 PM
I wonder if Jojen's death confirms the "Jojen Paste" theory.

If you've never heard of it, there's a threory for aDwD in which the Children of the Forest kill Jojen and mash his body into a paste, which becomes the stew they feed to Bran to awaken his greenseer stuff (or something). Most people just seemed to find this funny/disturbing, but now that he's died at roughly the same point in the show, it could actually be true.



Regarding next season, they're most likely going to get into Winds of Winter stuff, at least for the final episode or two. aDwD ends on too many cliffhangers: Meereen is about to get attacked, Victarion is about to attack Meereen's attackers, the Boltons are about to attack Stannis at Winterfell. They'll likely show at least some of this near the end of the season. Depending on what they do with the Iron Islands storyline, they could show Euron attacking Highgarden and Oldtown too.

Davian93
06-16-2014, 12:52 PM
I'm going to watch the season finale with my unsullied aunt and uncle. So excited! They really took the death of Oberyn in stride. I had a Facebook friend who was all I'M OUT after the last episode, and I had to talk him out of quitting, along with several other book-reading friends of his. I told him it would be as if he watched the red wedding and then skipped the purple one.


They've both been neutered?!?:eek:

Davian93
06-16-2014, 01:09 PM
As The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2014/jun/16/game-of-thrones-season-finale-fire-and-ice) states it:



They are gonna have to go off the books a lot now to keep next season interesting. All plotlines from here on are either irrelevant or just plain boring. Or both.

I can't think of one thing that I'll be excited to see next :(

Plot advancement now that its in the hands of two people that can actually produce material?

Now that they've totally changed Tyrion and Jaime's characters, I'm excited to see where that goes. And they have the Lady Stoneheart subplot that they have kicked to Season 5 supposedly. The Wall and Dorne probably come into play and now that Varys is going with Tyrion to the Free Cities, that should be interesting. Maybe they'll have them run right into Aegon instead of going all Lord of the Rings with a cross-continent journey instead. Varys and Illryo could take the place of Connington which would be interesting.

I think they will add a ton to Sansa and Arya's plots as well and we get the following subplots for Season 5:

1. The Wall, Stannis and Jon Snow
2. Tyrion, Varys, Illryio and Aegon...and eventually Jorah when he shows up.
3. Sansa and Littlefinger road trip through the Vale (should be fun as she's finally interesting and littlefinger is awesome)
4. Jaime/Bronn's trip through the Riverlands/run-in with Stoneheart & Brienne.
5. Braavos with Arya and later Sam.
6. Kevan Lannister, Cersei and then the Tyrells all fighting each other in King's Landing.

Seems like a ton of somewhat boring but hopefully interesting enough stuff to keep us going another couple seasons...and hopefully they'll add some more interesting stuff as they're already way ahead of Feast in several story lines (Sansa and Bran for example are already at the end of Dance as far as book material goes).

Mort
06-16-2014, 02:15 PM
Plot advancement now that its in the hands of two people that can actually produce material?

Now that they've totally changed Tyrion and Jaime's characters, I'm excited to see where that goes. And they have the Lady Stoneheart subplot that they have kicked to Season 5 supposedly. The Wall and Dorne probably come into play and now that Varys is going with Tyrion to the Free Cities, that should be interesting. Maybe they'll have them run right into Aegon instead of going all Lord of the Rings with a cross-continent journey instead. Varys and Illryo could take the place of Connington which would be interesting.

I think they will add a ton to Sansa and Arya's plots as well and we get the following subplots for Season 5:

1. The Wall, Stannis and Jon Snow
2. Tyrion, Varys, Illryio and Aegon...and eventually Jorah when he shows up.
3. Sansa and Littlefinger road trip through the Vale (should be fun as she's finally interesting and littlefinger is awesome)
4. Jaime/Bronn's trip through the Riverlands/run-in with Stoneheart & Brienne.
5. Braavos with Arya and later Sam.
6. Kevan Lannister, Cersei and then the Tyrells all fighting each other in King's Landing.

Seems like a ton of somewhat boring but hopefully interesting enough stuff to keep us going another couple seasons...and hopefully they'll add some more interesting stuff as they're already way ahead of Feast in several story lines (Sansa and Bran for example are already at the end of Dance as far as book material goes).

I'm sure they will be able to find something semi-interesting at least for them all to do, but it probably won't hold a candle to what has come before. Not likely they'll go off the cliff completely and be able to come up with something as gripping as red weddings and what not.

Some of the plots in the books are just bad. Arya in Braavos is almost as useless as Bran has been for all the books/seasons for example. Maybe they will be able to make something good happen around King's Landing with Jaime and Jons plot should probably be okay.

Completely changed Tyrion and Jaime? Sure it was a long time since I read the books so I havn't a good grasp of where they are emotionally at this point. But completely different? Sure I remember Jaime disliking Cersei more at this point, at least he distances himself from her some, seeing her for what she really is etc. But hasn't he already to a point?

Davian93
06-16-2014, 02:35 PM
Tyrion's entire character is changed without the whole 'BTW, I lied to you about Tysha, your first wife. She wasn't a whore'. Jaime and Tyrion still be BFFs totally changes it and makes you question Tyrion's rationale for going to confront Tywin in the first place.

Tyrion is supposed to basically feel he has zero family left and his comments to Jaime about Cersei are a big part of why Jaime goes off to the RIverlands and doesnt rush back to her defense once she's imprisoned by the new Grand Septon.


I do agree though that the best parts of the books up until now have come and gone and almost nothing of interest really happens in all of Books 4 or 5. We get massive subplots that basically go nowhere and have zero purpose...and we still dont have a publishing date for Winds of Winter. HBO is basically already out of time on a couple plotlines and is running out of time very rapidly on others now...because GRRM sucks and wont finish them.

rand
06-16-2014, 10:53 PM
I'm sure they will be able to find something semi-interesting at least for them all to do, but it probably won't hold a candle to what has come before.
Oh, there's plenty of fun yet to come. What about Quentyn wandering through Essos? What about Jaime visiting all the lords around the Riverlands? What about Arya selling cockles from a barrow? And who can forget the excitement of seeing Jon Snow and Bowen Marsh tallying up the food the Night's Watch still has in its storehouses? That last one should take the place of the traditional episode 9 battle.

:p

Seriously though, I actually like Arya's story in books 4-5. It will be interesting to see what happens to Bran and Sansa though, since they're already caught up. And the funny thing is that Jon's story is still only about 3/4 of the way through book 3.

Regarding the publication date for book 6, I think they've said it definitely won't be out this year, and that it likely wouldn't be out before season 5 of the show is done. I've also heard rumors that said (sort of jokingly but maybe half-serious) that GRRM will extend the series to 8 books. Which wouldn't be too surprising I guess. It would be annoying, but I'd almost kind of like it that way. At least we wouldn't have to worry about the show overtaking the books; it would just be a given, with book 8 coming out 8+ years after the show is done.

Terez
06-17-2014, 05:55 AM
What about Jaime visiting all the lords around the Riverlands?
Apparently he is going to Dorne instead. Since Tyrion didn't give him anything to brood on, and Cersei is kissing his ass, he'll probably try to rescue Myrcella at her request.

fdsaf3
06-17-2014, 07:35 AM
Friends of mine who are huge fans of the books are telling me that there isn't much of anything to look forward to plot-wise in the TV show from now on.

So, given that GRRM is notoriously slow in writing/publishing new material, it seems obvious in hindsight (and maybe people knew at the time) that the show was going to catch up to the books rather quickly. This might be a dumb question, but why didn't the people making the show go slower? Maybe there isn't a way to do that - I don't know. I'm not a fan of the books, so I can't say.

GonzoTheGreat
06-17-2014, 08:56 AM
Maybe they hoped for some reason that GRRM would get on with it (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMUnbNPCoSw).

Sarevok
06-17-2014, 10:42 AM
Fdsaf, I think if they'd slowed it down significantly (like, make all the story up to now into like, 6 seasons), parts of it would just have felt like filler and would have been just plain boring. Also, they'd have eventually run into the catching-up problem anyway, only 2 years later...

SauceyBlueConfetti
06-17-2014, 10:56 AM
Dead as a doornail Cat hasn't shown up yet either.

Davian93
06-17-2014, 11:19 AM
Dead as a doornail Cat hasn't shown up yet either.

Which is super annoying because it would have been the perfect end of season cliffhanger.

I almost wonder if they're doing away with the Stoneheart subplot altogether to save cost/time.

SauceyBlueConfetti
06-17-2014, 11:37 AM
Me too. Because the character, in the book, so far really hasn't contributed much other than showing resurrection is possible???

SauceyBlueConfetti
06-17-2014, 11:38 AM
Oh, and the procedure to The Mountain "may change him". Was that in the book?

What is he gonna go pick flowers now?

Davian93
06-17-2014, 11:43 AM
Oh, and the procedure to The Mountain "may change him". Was that in the book?

What is he gonna go pick flowers now?

It all happened off-screen in the book and all we "know" is that Qyburn is working on a new Champion for Cersei named "Sir Robert Strong" who is a 7ft tall giant.

We're just getting to see it on the show instead.

Davian93
06-17-2014, 11:46 AM
Me too. Because the character, in the book, so far really hasn't contributed much other than showing resurrection is possible???

It has been one of the more pointless sideplots so far...with a giant cliffhanger being Jaime riding off with Brienne at the end of Dance.

Now that Jaime in the show is going to Dorne instead of the Riverlands, I dont know what the hell is going to happen. Are they going to cut all of Brienne's wandering around too?

If they do that and get rid of Jaime's ride through the Riverlands to combine it with the Dorne subplot, they basically just got rid of 80% of Books 4 & 5. Add in that it doesnt appear Tyrion is going all the way to Meereen now either as he's not wondering "where do whores go?" and I dont know what the show writers are going to do. They're basically off the grid going into Season 5 now.

SauceyBlueConfetti
06-17-2014, 11:48 AM
Never mind, I looked it up. I forgot that Pycell (Was it Pycelle) worked on him and the rumors are he is the freakishly less than human knight that shows up later.

Figbiscuit
06-23-2014, 08:04 AM
They're basically off the grid going into Season 5 now.

That's how they're getting around catching up with the books then / making it possible for GRRM to blow the series off as he has no idea WHAT HE'S DOING.

I hate myself for the fact that I will probably still buy Winter of Winds. If it ever gets published.

Mort
06-23-2014, 09:56 AM
That's how they're getting around catching up with the books then / making it possible for GRRM to blow the series off as he has no idea WHAT HE'S DOING.

I hate myself for the fact that I will probably still buy Winter of Winds. If it ever gets published.

I will hate myself a little about that too :)

WHEN Winds of Winter gets released, I will also be totally confused about the different plots happening. Will be hard keeping them apart, I think.

I think maybe first half of next season doesn't have to be all that new or off the rails, but I wonder where they are going to end the season on.

Fun in a way, since I won't know what is coming.

Mort
06-23-2014, 11:45 AM
Just found this story about the next season:

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/06/18/game-of-thrones-season-5/

Apparently they are still set on doing seven seasons, and they seem to think they have some good stuff left to tell.

I get a bit less worried when I read that. Although it would seem they might end the show before all the books have come out. Seems like they know how everything will end at least.

Terez
06-23-2014, 12:19 PM
I started rereading AFFC last week. I'm about halfway through ADWD now. It's the first time I've managed to reread either book; I've tried to reread AFFC before, and ended up just reading through the plotlines I cared about most (i.e. skipping Dorne and the Iron Islands). It was much easier to get into this time, and a good place to pick up after the end of season 4. I'll probably reread the whole series before season 5 starts, though I'll probably reread WoT first, else I might not remember anything about WoT at JordanCon. (GOT usually premiers somewhere around the time of JordanCon.)

Mort
06-23-2014, 12:31 PM
I started rereading AFFC last week. I'm about halfway through ADWD now. It's the first time I've managed to reread either book; I've tried to reread AFFC before, and ended up just reading through the plotlines I cared about most (i.e. skipping Dorne and the Iron Islands). It was much easier to get into this time, and a good place to pick up after the end of season 4. I'll probably reread the whole series before season 5 starts, though I'll probably reread WoT first, else I might not remember anything about WoT at JordanCon. (GOT usually premiers somewhere around the time of JordanCon.)

I've never really found GoT to be re-readable. No way near WoT anyways. I usually just skim through a summary of the last book before a new one comes out.

Which is why I can't remember a lot of the finer details from the books. Which is just fine when watching the tv series. All the major events are there but it doesn't irk me much if they havn't gotten everything down 100% :)

Terez
06-23-2014, 01:27 PM
I never had any problem rereading the first three. I've read them three times I think, not enough to remember the details very well (compared to WoT), but I skipped them this time.

SauceyBlueConfetti
06-25-2014, 11:22 AM
I need a re-read. I have zero motivation though because of my annoyance with Mr. he-who-who-bugsme.

I need a jumpstart or a group reread or something really intriguing to pick out ideas.

I ran across an email from years and years back, while reading the first book. I told a friend that I believed there were Dragons living below Winterfell and it explained the warm springs there.

I could look for something along those lines now that we know more about the trees (via Bran). It was also pointed out that something is likely hidden in the Stark crypts below Winterfell. I could look for that. I could figure out the importance of Greyscale.

Bah. Anyone have an idea to captivate me enough to re-read? I actually just need to do it to get the timeline back in order in my head.

Mort
06-25-2014, 03:30 PM
I could look for something along those lines now that we know more about the trees (via Bran). It was also pointed out that something is likely hidden in the Stark crypts below Winterfell. I could look for that. I could figure out the importance of Greyscale.



Since this IS the Internets, if such a connection existed, wouldn't someone have found it already? And we have like 1 chapter with Bran and trees no? Just go reread that chapter ;)

GonzoTheGreat
06-26-2014, 03:19 AM
Since this IS the Internets, if such a connection existed, wouldn't someone have found it already?
Not everyone on the Internet is quite as smart as I am. And, since I'm smart enough to have give up on GRRM (at least until he actually finishes the series), it's obvious that smart people won't be doing such research. Which leaves ... well, I'll let you puzzle that one out yourself. :p

Mort
06-26-2014, 03:56 AM
Not everyone on the Internet is quite as smart as I am. And, since I'm smart enough to have give up on GRRM (at least until he actually finishes the series), it's obvious that smart people won't be doing such research. Which leaves ... well, I'll let you puzzle that one out yourself. :p

Nothing smart about doing or not doing it. Obsessive though, and a lot of time on your hands. :)

Figbiscuit
06-26-2014, 04:56 AM
WHEN Winds of Winter gets released, I will also be totally confused about the different plots happening. Will be hard keeping them apart, I think.


You are much more positive than I ;)

Just found this story about the next season:

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/06/18/game-of-thrones-season-5/

Apparently they are still set on doing seven seasons, and they seem to think they have some good stuff left to tell.

I get a bit less worried when I read that. Although it would seem they might end the show before all the books have come out. Seems like they know how everything will end at least.

I don't get the point of finishing the TV show and then releasing the books after. Will anyone still care?

Mort
06-26-2014, 03:17 PM
You are much more positive than I ;)



I don't get the point of finishing the TV show and then releasing the books after. Will anyone still care?


Many book readers will, I think? Some will probably be happy to just lay the books down. I might even.

Terez
06-26-2014, 04:56 PM
I think GRRM himself might be tempted to quit when the show passes him up.

Figbiscuit
06-30-2014, 07:24 AM
I think GRRM himself might be tempted to quit when the show passes him up.

Yeah I've thought that too. Again, what a nob.

Mort
06-30-2014, 07:57 AM
Heard from somewhere that the show isn't gonna use Coldhands or Stoneheart at all (at least Coldhands sounded definitive) because those story lines never really went anywhere.

Mort
07-07-2014, 07:26 AM
https://scontent-b-fra.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t1.0-9/1908348_818797024817252_3822157999121103041_n.png