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SauceyBlueConfetti
04-23-2014, 09:51 AM
That is all

Mort
04-23-2014, 10:43 AM
Just finished his latest masterpiece I take it?

Sarevok
04-23-2014, 10:45 AM
Hmmm?

Davian93
04-23-2014, 11:26 AM
That is all

This is known. Did you just finish Dance or something?

Details, SBC, we need details!

rand
04-23-2014, 11:41 AM
Lol. Not that I disagree, but do we really need all these different threads bashing GRRM? There's at least three on page 1 in here alone...

SauceyBlueConfetti
04-23-2014, 12:24 PM
his passive aggressive comments on the WoT being nominated for a Hugo just pissed me off.
Compared to Brandon's response to the nomination, where he asks fans to respect each other, GRRM just cemented his status with me.

I am failing Brandon's request here.

GRRM is still a douchebag. It is his lack of respect for his OWN fanbase and their option to like more than one writer that ticks me off. He was smarmy and snotty back years ago in regards to JK Rowling and it just smacks of green eyed monster envy. While I understand the issues regarding the Hugo award nominations for WoT, the differences in responses between Brandon and GRRM are quite telling.

Compare:

GRRM (from his blog, just the pertinent bit):
(my edit: general comments about his own GoT nomination then...) And that's my Hugo news.

As for the rest of the ballot... well, the good news is, more people nominated this year than ever before.

And the bad news... well, you guys are smart, you can figure that out for yourself. And if you can't, there a hundred blogs that will tell you. I expect it will only be a matter of hours before someone starts talking about "Hugofail." Prepare for the internet to go to war again.


Please, the 'bad news'? Can he be more passive aggressive?

vs. Brandon's response (via multiple sources):

The Wheel of Time, as a whole, has been nominated for a Hugo Award for best novel. I am thrilled, honored, and excited—and when Harriet heard the news, she lit up as I’ve never seen her do before. Thank you.

Congratulations to all of the other nominees! I have a few things I’d like to say about this nomination. First, I’d like to speak to Wheel of Time fans themselves. Secondly, I’d like to speak to those who are criticizing the nomination.

To The Wheel of Time Fans

Thank you for your enthusiasm. I’m certain that Robert Jordan is smiling at you right now. However, I do want to reiterate what I said earlier when I got wind that the WoT fandom was considering a campaign to get the Wheel of Time nominated: be careful. Please don’t let the Hugo Awards become a shoving match between fandoms.

“But Brandon,” you might say, “everyone says the Hugo Awards are a popularity contest. Shouldn’t we prove how popular Robert Jordan is?”

Well, yes and no. The Hugo Awards are a popularity contest—but they should be a fiction popularity contest, not an author popularity contest. The Hugo Awards were founded in the 1950s by dedicated sf/f fans who saw mainstream literary awards ignoring science fiction and fantasy. This award was founded to combat that, to show off the brightest and best fiction the genres had to offer. It was done in an era long before the internet, and Worldcon attendees were chosen to be the voters because of their dedication to the genre as a whole.

When I first started voting for the Hugos many years ago, a long-time fan impressed upon me the importance of my responsibility. Each work must be judged independently of its author, and must be judged against the competition in its category. We, as fans, use this award to proclaim to the world the fiction we are proudest of.

I love the Hugo Awards. They tend to run a great balance, consistently recognizing fiction that is both popular and thought-provoking. They have a grand tradition, and are one of the things that make me proud to be a member of science fiction fandom.

We want you to vote. We want you to be part of the process. But let me speak frankly to you: if you don’t intend to read and investigate the other nominees and participate in a wide variety of categories, you are doing the awards a disservice. I would rather have the Wheel of Time not win than have it be given an award as part of a thoughtless shoving match.

In this, I wish to hold up George R. R. Martin as an exemplar. He wants dearly to someday win a Hugo for best novel, a distinction that has eluded him. I’ve heard him speak about it. The thing is, he could win the award in a heartbeat; he has by far the biggest fanbase in our community. If he asked them each to pay for a Worldcon supporting membership and vote only for him, he’d win by a landslide.

He’s never done that because he knows that this award has only as much integrity as we give it. So long as you are willing to vote superior works by other authors above works by your favorite authors, you are doing the award justice.

Now, I firmly believe that the Wheel of Time is worthy of a Hugo Award. Don’t let my strong words suggest otherwise to you. But I can’t say for certain what I will vote for until I read the other nominated works, consider the category with an open mind, and make my decision. I also intend to continue being part of these awards for many, many years, rather than joining only once to vote on a single contest.

I sincerely request you do the same. Join with us, participate, and investigate all of the nominees in all of the categories. Then vote for the works you think are the best of the nominations. It is only by holding ourselves accountable as honest and responsible voters that we will maintain the prestige of this award.

To Science Fiction and Fantasy Fandom as a Whole

I have spent some time reading responses to the Hugo nominations, and wanted to reach out to you. I find it unfortunate that some of you, including prominent voices in fandom, are responding with anger or frustration about the Wheel of Time nomination. Some don’t like a series being nominated for the novel Hugo. Some don’t like WoT fandom reaching in and participating in the award. And others downright dislike the Wheel of Time as a work of art.

I would like to address some of these concerns that I see recurring in the discussions.

On the Wheel of Time Being Nominated as a Single Novel

On the first point, I wish to emphasize that the Hugo rules were intentionally designed to allow works like this to be nominated. Serials are such a part of our collective culture in sf fandom, and I promise you that the Wheel of Time is indeed a serial. It focuses on a single group of characters, a single plot and narrative, and the books each pick up exactly where the previous one left off. Yes, it took a long time to complete. Yes, it is large. However, Robert Jordan always considered—and spoke of—the Wheel of Time as a single story. The length of time it took to write that story is irrelevant as far as the Hugos are concerned.

A Game of Thrones season could be nominated collectively as a single entry into the dramatic presentation category. Connie Willis’s Blackout/All Clear could be nominated as a single work, though broken into two volumes. Indeed, this is similar to how Dragonflight and Ender’s Game could both garner short fiction nominations for their original forms, then be nominated for best novel in a later year once the story was expanded.

The Wheel of Time is eligible. These are your awards, however, and if this aspect of them is bothersome to you it’s quite possible to get this changed by participating in Worldcon and the Hugo Awards as a whole, making your voice known and advocating a revision. Your passion, therefore, should be directed at making that happen, rather than against the work that was nominated.

Attend Worldcon. Go to the WSFS Business Meeting. Blog about it. Bring your friends. We need people involved at this level of fandom.

On Wheel of Time Fandom

This brings us to the second two points, which I feel are the more important ones in most of these discussions. In regard to Wheel of Time fans participating, I want to tell wider fandom that I vouch for these fans. I offered words of caution to them above because I think they need reminders as they are new to core sf/f fandom, but I feel that you need to know that Wheel of Time fans are our people.

They have organized much as the fans back in the 1930s did, holding conventions and starting fanzines/websites. They attend Worldcons and their local literary conventions, though many of them have only started doing so in the last four or five years as they’ve realized the richness and scope of established fandom.

I charge you: do not reject their enthusiasm. I spoke honestly with them, and I wish to speak honestly with you. I have yet to attend a Worldcon where someone—either on panels or at the parties—didn’t ask what could be done to bring new blood into our fannish community. For years, we have worried about what to do. Now, as fandoms like that dedicated to the Wheel of Time have begun to discover both Worldcon and the Hugos, I feel we stand at an important confluence.

Welcome the Wheel of Time fans into our community. Welcome the next group of fans in too. Give whatever it is they’re passionate about a try. You might like it, and if not, you’ll still probably like them.

On the Wheel of Time as Literature

I understand that you may not personally enjoy the Wheel of Time. There is nothing wrong with that—it is the nature of art that some will disdain what others love. However, as I’ve read bloggers and fannish personalities speaking of a Wheel of Time nomination, some have unfortunately called it “shameful” or “embarrassing.” Worse, some of them have attacked the fanbase, calling into question its intelligence for daring to nominate the Wheel of Time—in essence, for daring to have different taste from the blogger posting.

You can’t beg people to come and participate in fandom, then tell them not to vote on your awards because you don’t like their preference in books. Indeed, attacking the fans of a work rather than criticizing the work itself is crossing a very big, and important, line.

For many years, we in fandom have had to suffer these kinds of dismissive, hurtful, and destructive attitudes from those who attack us because we like science fiction. Do not side with the bullies. Do not hold your own opinion in such high regard that you dismiss all others.

It is not shameful to like the Wheel of Time. No more than it should be shameful to be the kid who read Dune in middle school while others snickered. We should never have to feel embarrassed for honestly expressing our taste in fiction. No more than we should have to feel embarrassed to be the one at work who attends an sf con, much to the amusement of your co-workers.

If you have said these kinds of things about the Wheel of Time or its fandom in the past few days, I challenge you to take a long, hard look at your tone and what you’re implying. Ask yourself if you really want to belong to a world where only one kind of opinion is valid, where only your taste is acceptable.

Because in my experience, these are the sorts of attitudes that science fiction and fantasy fiction have spent their history combatting. So if you don’t think The Wheel of Time should win, vote for something else. But while you’re doing it, be kind. Treat these fans the way you want to be treated as a fan—and as a human being.

Brandon Sanderson
4/21/2014

rand
04-23-2014, 02:00 PM
I think he's still pissed off that he lost a Hugo to JK Rowling. :p

Terez
04-23-2014, 02:09 PM
Compared to Brandon's response to the nomination, where he asks fans to respect each other....
....in an incredibly condescending way, I must say. I found it hard to read.

Davian93
04-23-2014, 02:23 PM
I think he's still pissed off that he lost a Hugo to JK Rowling. :p

In his defense, there was hardly any gratuitous raping in Harry Potter...how it ever won anything is beyond me.

SauceyBlueConfetti
04-23-2014, 02:30 PM
....in an incredibly condescending way, I must say. I found it hard to read.

remember though, most of Brandon's fans are comparable to the cliché of teenage fanboys than Theoryland level. I mean seriously, look at the whole "call of duty" thing that is going on right now and how losers are calling in fake reports of shootings to send swat teams to their opponents houses. THOSE are types of folks who I believe BS is targeting with his comments. Trolls. I believe we call them Trolls. ;)

Again, I like GRRM books, some of them. And I like Brandon books, some of them. I understand the arguments against the Hugo nomination, and to be frank I think it probably should not have happened. But GRRM DOES campaign. I actually disagree with Brandon on that topic as I have seen him do it on his blog.


I respect Brandon more for trying to EXPLAIN to the WoT folks that this isn't just a jump on the bandwagon situation...he would like folks to READ the nominated works. Probably won't happen, but at least he put it out there to get a few folks to think twice.

Doesn't matter. GRRM is a jackass either way. :D:cool::rolleyes::p:D

Isabel
04-23-2014, 02:40 PM
Hmm, i am not sure he is talking about the wheel of time.
Apparantly Vox Day? Which is also nominated for a hugo in the novel category is really controversial. I have seen more blogs about that, than about the wot nomination.

Davian93
04-23-2014, 02:44 PM
You know, instead of whining about the Hugos, maybe GRRM could actually finish his own series...

Just sayin'.

rand
04-23-2014, 03:01 PM
Hmm, i am not sure he is talking about the wheel of time.
Apparantly Vox Day? Which is also nominated for a hugo in the novel category is really controversial. I have seen more blogs about that, than about the wot nomination.
Yeah, this is probably it, actually. I didn't know he'd been nominated too. Vox Day wrote A Throne of Bones mostly as a direct criticism to ASOIAF. So it does seem likely GRRM is talking about this, and not WoT at all.

SauceyBlueConfetti
04-23-2014, 03:19 PM
Hmm, i am not sure he is talking about the wheel of time.
Apparantly Vox Day? Which is also nominated for a hugo in the novel category is really controversial. I have seen more blogs about that, than about the wot nomination.

You could be right, but I honestly doubt it. I think the Vox Day situation is not worthy of an "internet go to war" situation as GRRM notes.

Vox is so below the jackass-ery of GRRM...well, GRRM is a level 5, Vox is a level 10 million jackass. It is sad he was nominated, but I haven't read his book (this one or others). I don't like GRRM much as a person, but I continue to read him. For now. I don't like Orson Scott Card, but I read Ender's Game. Vox is a bit of different story. I probably won't read his because it would be ABHORRENT to my inner self if in some way I found I liked his writing. At all. I don't think I can subject myself to that.

SauceyBlueConfetti
04-23-2014, 03:27 PM
I tried to request clarification from Mr. GRRM via his LiveJournal blog. If I am wrong in my assumption I need to provide a serious mea culpa apology.

Unfortunately, I purged my LiveJournal account a couple months ago (I just didn't use it anymore) and I cannot leave a comment without a login. I am too lazy to create a new account specifically for this purpose.

Terez
04-23-2014, 03:44 PM
I think Isa is probably right. I haven't been paying much attention to the Hugo commentary but I have nevertheless seen a ton of comments about this Vox Day person, along with many accusations of doing what Brandon was talking about, with spamming the Hugos. (I prefer spamming to trolling here. :p) I was thinking about signing up for a supporting membership just to get all the WoT ebooks. But I already felt weird about trying to vote before Brandon's post, for those reasons. I don't have the desire to read through a bunch of other stuff to make an informed decision. I wonder if I could sign up, get my ebooks, and abstain from voting. :D

rand
04-23-2014, 03:57 PM
It's gotta be about Vox Day. I don't think GRRM's ever really attacked RJ before. In fact, he's said that RJ is probably responsible for the success of ASOIAF because he put a favorable quote on the front cover of Game of Thrones.
If I am wrong in my assumption I need to provide a serious mea culpa apology.
Nah, he's still a jackass either way.

Southpaw2012
04-23-2014, 05:23 PM
GRRM was a jackass, is a jackass, and will always be a jackass. I appreciate what Brandon was trying to say, but I disagree. Fans are fans because they love the book(s) the particular book they read. Hardcore WoT fans shouldn't have to read the other nominations to see if they can be swayed by the "better book." I think it's safe to say that real fans are voting for the WoT because they truly think it belongs at the time and should receive the award.

Davian93
04-23-2014, 05:52 PM
What the hell is a Vox Day?

Terez
04-23-2014, 05:58 PM
Apparently, a neo-Randian extremofascist.

Davian93
04-23-2014, 07:59 PM
Apparently, a neo-Randian extremofascist.

Never heard of it...sounds "awesome". Basically Terry Goodkind without the charm?

Edit: Just googled him...sounds like a massive POS Tea Party fascist basically. Hates women and minorities and his photo gives him a massively punchable face (shocker there).

Isabel
04-23-2014, 11:48 PM
You could be right, but I honestly doubt it. I think the Vox Day situation is not worthy of an "internet go to war" situation as GRRM notes.

Vox is so below the jackass-ery of GRRM...well, GRRM is a level 5, Vox is a level 10 million jackass. It is sad he was nominated, but I haven't read his book (this one or others). I don't like GRRM much as a person, but I continue to read him. For now. I don't like Orson Scott Card, but I read Ender's Game. Vox is a bit of different story. I probably won't read his because it would be ABHORRENT to my inner self if in some way I found I liked his writing. At all. I don't think I can subject myself to that.

I have a lot of writers in my twitter feed and there are tons of blogs about that.
In most wot is just an afterthought:)

Seeker
04-24-2014, 12:08 AM
GRRM is a jack ass.

He sure is

Seeker
04-24-2014, 12:14 AM
....in an incredibly condescending way, I must say. I found it hard to read.

You're kidding me.

He was nothing but polite and I don't sense a trace of condescension from him. All he did was ask the WoT fans to be as objective as possible when voting and the WoT detractors to be considerate of other points of view. Given that the Internet is abuzz with people on both sides slamming each other (one of whom is an author who really should know better), I think the request is merited.

Edit:
Retract my statement about an author who should know better.

I agree with Saucy. I think WoT is a decent series, but I don't think it's an example of the best the genre has to offer for reasons that I discussed a few months ago when this came up. I wouldn't have nominated it for a Hugo, HOWEVER, I think it's absolutely ludicrous to get upset that it did receive a nomination.

Terez
04-24-2014, 10:46 AM
You're kidding me.
Nope. I could go into detail about why I found it condescending, but I don't have the time at the moment, and I'm not sure there is a point. Surely I'm not the only one that read it that way. It surprised me; I feel like I know what to expect from Brandon at this point, but that was not what I expected.

Seeker
04-24-2014, 01:02 PM
It's possible that I'm simply less involved in the fan community and thus I don't pick up on the nuance. When he said he was going to address the WoT critics, I half expected something along the lines of his "Don't you dare say there's sexism in WoT" Twitter rant. But that's not what he ended up saying, and I agree with him when he says that nerdom should be as inclusive as possible.

I will say that Brandon is a little too good at articulating both sides of every issue to the point where, if he takes a stance on anything, you don't know if he really means it or if he's just saying what he thinks people want to hear.

Ishara
04-25-2014, 01:23 PM
I actually really liked it. I felt he weas being kind and gracious, not condescending, but then, tone is inferred.

It was a nice message, I think, and well-intentioned to be sure.

Terez
04-25-2014, 10:12 PM
I have no doubt it was well-intentioned.

Southpaw2012
04-26-2014, 12:20 AM
Never heard of it...sounds "awesome". Basically Terry Goodkind without the charm?

Edit: Just googled him...sounds like a massive POS Tea Party fascist basically. Hates women and minorities and his photo gives him a massively punchable face (shocker there).

Is he a Tea Partier or a fascist/racist/sexist because if he calls himself a Tea Partier then he doesn't fit in. I mean, GRRM is a POS liberal nut but I find him to be an asshole for other reasons.

Southpaw2012
04-26-2014, 12:22 AM
I actually really liked it. I felt he weas being kind and gracious, not condescending, but then, tone is inferred.

It was a nice message, I think, and well-intentioned to be sure.

Brandon's just a nice guy.

Seeker
04-26-2014, 01:01 PM
Is he a Tea Partier or a fascist/racist/sexist because if he calls himself a Tea Partier then he doesn't fit in. I mean, GRRM is a POS liberal nut but I find him to be an asshole for other reasons.

They may not be an overtly racist movement, but white supremacists seem to see the Tea Party as fertile soil for new converts.
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4158262/

That should tell you something.

Matoyak
04-27-2014, 01:19 AM
They may not be an overtly racist movement, but white supremacists seem to see the Tea Party as fertile soil for new converts.
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4158262/

That should tell you something.Anecdotal - but every Tea Party member/supporter I know personally (about a dozen people or so) have been either overtly racist, or overtly misogynistic (They're very good about revealing either trait ASAP. Feels like it's almost a compulsion for them). I have literally never met a person affiliated with that group that hasn't been a walking pile of human feces.

I suppose I should mention I'm talking about in real life, not on the internet.

EDIT: I guess in interest of full disclosure, 3 of those dozen or so are family members.

Seeker
04-27-2014, 01:54 AM
Did you read the article? It quotes from a thread on a board called Storm Front with quotes about white supremacists infiltrating tea party meetings. Now, I suppose you can rationalize that by saying they were only talking about infiltrating meetings and never did it, but they use words like "manifesto."

I'm usually skeptical of the Huffington Post, so I actually checked the thread they quoted just to make sure they didn't take something out of context. (And Now I feel icky having white supremacist bullshit in my browser history... No amount of deleting can make the ick factor go away.)

The point is that avowed racists have come out and said straight up that they think tea party members make good recruits. So, again, maybe it's all hot air but it should raise a few eyebrows.

Davian93
04-27-2014, 11:57 AM
Not all republicans/tea partiers are racists but nearly all racists are republican/tea partieres.

Terez
04-27-2014, 07:48 PM
The Tea Party claims to be all about economics, but in the minds of many (perhaps most) it all goes back to black people on welfare and illegals taking our jobs.

Davian93
04-28-2014, 04:01 PM
The Tea Party claims to be all about economics, but in the minds of many (perhaps most) it all goes back to black people on welfare and illegals taking our jobs.

Funny how the whole concern with taxes started right in January 2009. What else happened in January 2009 that could have been a cause of that....hmm, let me think.

GonzoTheGreat
04-29-2014, 03:50 AM
Funny how the whole concern with taxes started right in January 2009. What else happened in January 2009 that could have been a cause of that....hmm, let me think.
According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_2009):
Slovakia adopts the euro and becomes the 16th member of the Eurozone.I'm not quite sure how that produces American concerns about the height of taxation, but perhaps some US conservative can explain that to us.

Sodas
06-14-2014, 06:43 PM
That is all

Yes, yes he is.

:D

The prince's monologue and death scene almost made me puke and put down GoT forever.

SauceyBlueConfetti
06-20-2014, 03:07 PM
HE JUST REALLY PISSED ME OFF


HERE (http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/jun/19/george-rr-martin-gay-of-thrones-cameo-web-series?CMP=fb_gu)

Seriously being an asshole. Fucking douchebag. OMG this made me mad.

Sodas
06-20-2014, 03:10 PM
That's terrible stuff. Wtf?

That does it for me. Done.

Figbiscuit
06-23-2014, 07:56 AM
What a cock.

Sodas
06-28-2014, 02:01 AM
I like this version better than GRRM ;)

http://youtu.be/2EoQCtPR2-I

Daekyras
02-28-2015, 11:51 AM
I like this version better than GRRM ;)

http://youtu.be/2EoQCtPR2-I

Hahaha. Also, grrm IS a cock.