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SauceyBlueConfetti
05-28-2014, 11:05 AM
I think we need a roll call to see who is still poking around these parts.


Who are you? Lisa
Where? Michigan, USA
How long at TL? since 2000
Will you reread soon? Yes
What are you reading now? The Black Company
Read all forums, or just non? All
Favorite book? Changes, Fires of Heaven
Happy with the ending? 85%
One random thing? I just ate a pickle

Davian93
05-28-2014, 11:18 AM
Who are you? Bryan

Where? Vermont, USA

How long at TL? since Sept 2003

Will you reread soon? Yes

What are you reading now? The Fionvar Tapestry, American Spring and Europe: A History

Read all forums, or just non? All

Favorite book? tEotW for WoT...probably. Otherwise, there are so many good books out there, its hard to pick. Anything by GGK is great, Lots of non-fiction books are great. So many books to read.

Happy with the ending? 75%...BS did his best. I just miss RJ is all.

One random thing? I'm finally getting married in 2 weeks.

GonzoTheGreat
05-28-2014, 11:22 AM
One random thing? A paper clip.

Edited to add: Yay, layout is possible!

rand
05-28-2014, 02:57 PM
Who are you? Tim

Where? New Hampshire, USA

How long at TL? Since 2006

Will you reread soon? Probably

What are you reading now? 1Q84

Read all forums, or just non? All

Favorite book? WoT = LoC, any book = probably One Hundred Years of Solitude.

Happy with the ending? For the most part. I think Brandon did as good as he could, but I think it would have been much better if RJ had written it.

One random thing? Ketchup ninja masters are invading the Azerbaijani narwhal convention on February 30 of 2026.

Southpaw2012
05-28-2014, 03:14 PM
Who are you? Austin

Where? Illinois, USA

How long at TL? Since 2011

Will you reread soon? Yes, but it will be a slow one.

What are you reading now? The Last Unicorn, Getting to Maybe, and a reread of The Ocean at the End of the Lane (one of my all time favorites).

Read all forums, or just non? All

Favorite book? WoT = Fires of Heaven. All time favorite = too close to say. The Shadow of the Wind and The Ocean at the End of the Lane are in top 3.

Happy with the ending? Yes, it would have been best if RJ had been able to finish, but Brandon did as good as anyone else could have.

One random thing? Desperate for a RJ signed book and will scour through eBay until I am able to find an affordable one.

Tomp
05-28-2014, 04:30 PM
Who are you? Tomp (Tomas)
Where? Skåne, Sweden
How long at TL? since July 2011 (lurker before)
Will you reread soon? Yes
What are you reading now? Words of Radiance (late to the game)
Read all forums? Some
Favorite book? Wheel of Time (one story - one book)
Happy with the ending? 80% (it lacked some of RJs grounding - but maybe he would've made a worse job of it)
One random thing? Taking a few days of work to visit my family (They will probbably insist on celebrating my birthday from last week as I tick of the years until my demise)

Crispin's Crispian
05-28-2014, 04:36 PM
Who are you? Scott

Where? Oregon, USA

How long at TL? Since January, 2000, though whether I'm actually still here is debatable.

Will you reread soon? Define soon.

What are you reading now? Born to Run, but I'm about to reread Gardens of the Moon.

Read all forums, or just non? So binary...

Favorite book? TSR.

Happy with the ending? 75%. I wanted more of my crazy shi...er...things validated.

One random thing? There is a thunderstorm happening outside my window right now.

Terez
05-29-2014, 12:23 AM
Who are you?
Theresa

Where?
Gulfport, MS

How long at TL?
October 2004 on the main site, June 2005 on the forum.

Will you reread soon?
Maybe next year.

What are you reading now?
Paris Between Empires: Monarchy and Revolution 1814–1852

Read all forums, or just non?
All.

Favorite book?
Right now, Korespondencja Fryderyka Chopina Tom. I (Warszawa 2010).

Happy with the ending?
There are no endings.

One random thing?
J'habite avec ma mère et ma grand-mère.

Sarevok
05-29-2014, 05:47 AM
Who are you? Sarevok
Where? Netherlands
How long at TL? since 2006, I think? 8 years? omg...
Will you reread soon? I really should.:o
What are you reading now? Just finished the Lies of Locke Lamora. Currently looking for the 2nd book.
Read all forums? All but the Your Fiction
Favorite book? tSR
Happy with the ending? Yup
One random thing? I's almost 1pm and I just woke up. Night shifts mess up your sleeping schedule. (note: last night shift was 2 weeks ago)

sleepinghour
05-29-2014, 06:06 AM
Who are you? Nice try, NSA.
Where? Somewhere in the south of Sweden.
How long at TL? Not sure. I lurked for a few years before I started posting in 2010.
Will you reread soon? Probably not. I have too many other books on my to-read list.
What are you reading now? The Jeeves & Wooster novels by P.G. Wodehouse.
Read all forums, or just non? All; at the height of WoT fandom even a Russian forum. (I don't speak Russian.)
Favorite book? Can't pick a general favorite, but TSR among WoT books.
Happy with the ending? It could have been worse.
One random thing? I've recently become addicted to Orphan Black.

Davian93
05-29-2014, 08:19 AM
Paris Between Empires: Monarchy and Revolution 1814–1852

That looks interesting.

Nazbaque
05-29-2014, 08:28 AM
Who are you? Antti
Where? Turku, Finland
How long at TL? since late 2005
Will you reread soon? Waiting for the mood. Probably not
What are you reading now? Fanfiction. Chasing the Moon (Bleach (Hitsukarin, Ichiruki and Byayuzu (really starting to like that last one)))
Read all forums, or just non? Just non
Favorite book? The Great Hunt in WoT and Lord of the Rings (Two Towers)
Happy with the ending? Meh
One random thing? I miss my Aes Sedai

Terez
05-29-2014, 10:07 AM
That looks interesting.
So far it is a steady stream of almost random (if mostly chronological) infodump, well-sourced but favoring the anecdotal. I will read it but I think I will forget most of it.

Davian93
05-29-2014, 01:24 PM
So far it is a steady stream of almost random (if mostly chronological) infodump, well-sourced but favoring the anecdotal. I will read it but I think I will forget most of it.

That sounds less interesting.

Isabel
05-29-2014, 02:08 PM
Who are you? Emma
Where? Utrecht, the Netherlands
How long at TL? since 1998
Will you reread soon? probably start somewhere this year
What are you reading now? some crappy romance with dragons in it :)
Read all forums, or just non? All
Favorite book? Winter's heart
Happy with the ending? I am incredible happy to see RJ's ending. So with the end scene yes:)
One random thing? I am going to be a master of ceremonies and 'best man' for my first sisters wedding.

forsaken soul
05-30-2014, 02:17 PM
Who are you? Brad
Where? California
How long at TL? since 2001 ish
Will you reread soon? Not planning too.
What are you reading now? Wizard's first rule. Its worse then I heard.
Read all forums, or just non? All
Favorite book? tEotW
Happy with the ending? RJ's ending, yes.
One random thing? I need to start writing again so I will post some fan fic soon.

ShadowbaneX
05-30-2014, 07:56 PM
Oh, fine, it's a been a while since I posted in one of these.


Who, Where: Already listed.
How long at TL? Site: 1997 or 98...pretty much right near the start.
Will you reread soon? Already done that more times that I like to admit.
What are you reading now? Not much.
Read all forums, or just non? Non-WoT
Favorite book? Fires of Heaven
Happy with the ending? 75%

GonzoTheGreat
05-31-2014, 03:17 AM
What are you reading now? Wizard's first rule. Its worse then I heard.
Don't worry, it's better than its sequels.

Zombie Sammael
05-31-2014, 07:31 AM
Who are you? Russell.
Where? Rockhampton QLD.
How long at TL? First time 1999 to 2004 (roughly), second time 2010 to current.
Will you reread soon? I've been meaning to for the past year.
What are you reading now? Just finished Elantris.
Read all forums, or just non? All.
Favorite book? WOT: Lord of Chaos, General: Dracula.
Happy with the ending? Yep.
One random thing? Lupus Deus Est makes a wicked hot chocolate.

GonzoTheGreat
05-31-2014, 09:22 AM
Oh, I think I'll answer another of the questions. I'm sure that'll add value to this thread:

Read all forums, or just non? No.

Sei'taer
05-31-2014, 01:24 PM
Todd
Tennessee
No
Yes
Maybe
I forgot the questions.


Random thing. Boeing C-17 vs. Airbus A400M tactical short landings.
http://wimp.com/tacticallandings/

Ivhon
05-31-2014, 10:52 PM
Who are you? Alan
Where? Texas, USA
How long at TL? since longtime
Will you reread soon? All books other than the below are in storage for a year.
What are you reading now? Hold Me Tight; Attachment in Psychotherapy; Mindsight; Flow; Crash Course
Read all forums, or just non? Mostly non, nowadays.
Favorite book? Shadow Rising
Happy with the ending? 85%
One random thing? the lottery

Uno
06-01-2014, 07:30 PM
Who are you? Uno
Where? Iowa
How long at TL? About 16 years, I guess.
Will you reread soon? No.
What are you reading now? Wodehouse, Aunts Aren't Gentlemen
Read all forums, or just non? Some, not all.
Favorite book? It varies.
Happy with the ending? It was ok, not too bad.
One random thing? Going to Maine tomorrow.

yks 6nnetu hing
06-02-2014, 02:08 AM
Who are you? Doris
Where? Amsterdam
How long at TL? since December 2003 or January 2004, I forget which.
Will you reread soon? I really should. Waiting for the nagging feeling in me to get stronger.
What are you reading now? Cold Fire (it's pretty good), The Witch's Daughter (don't know yet)
Read all forums, or just non? most
Fav book: LoC
Happy with the ending? other than getting the end spoiled several times (which sucked majorly) it was ok. I think I'll like it more when I reread.
One random thing? Windmills can turn with the wind. Once they've done a 360 3 times, they stop and turn back to neutral.

DahLliA
06-02-2014, 05:20 AM
Who are you? Anders

Where? Trondheim, Norway

How long at TL? 2005 I think. I'm never gonna remember this :p

Will you reread soon? Probably not

What are you reading now? Rereading the ICE Malazan books. Return of the Crimson Guard atm

Read all forums, or just non? Mostly non-WoT

Favorite book? Not sure to be honest

Happy with the ending? Fairly happy.

One random thing? Fez makes a good vampire

Khoram
06-02-2014, 01:10 PM
Who are you? Chris
Where? Quebec, Canadia
How long at TL? Nov. 2010
Will you reread soon? I certainly hope so
What are you reading now? Contact by Carl Sagan. Love it.
Read all forums, or just non? Most - mainly non-WoT, though
Favorite book? Fires of Heaven has to be one of my favourites. I've also always loved One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich
Happy with the ending? Yeah. I'm glad it's done. It wasn't the same without RJ, but I'm happy with how it ended.
One random thing? I've been watching The Pretender these past few weeks, and I'm absolutely loving it.

Zaela Sedai
06-03-2014, 07:21 PM
Who are you? Andrea
Where? Connecticut, USA
How long at TL? since 2001 on the main site, September 2003 on the forums
Will you reread soon? Most likely, have to reread MoL first
What are you reading now? In between books, just finished WoR. I've been reading real estate contracts lately
Read all forums, or just non? Most
Favorite book? WoT - tSR - Non WoT single book - Pillars of the Earth
Happy with the ending? pretty happy... may be happier once the Encyclopedia comes out
One random thing? I used to swear up and down I'd only have one kid... I now have three (and even on purpose!)

Ishara
06-04-2014, 07:38 AM
Who are you? Natalia
Where? Hamilton, Ontario
How long at TL? Can't recall....1998? 2001? A crazy long time. :)
Will you reread soon? Yeah, for sure.
What are you reading now? A trashy book on my kobo ;)
Read all forums, or just non? All :)
Favorite book? WoT: The Shadow Rising; Non-WoT: The Fionavar Tapestry, Guy Gavriel Kay
Happy with the ending? Absolutely.
One random thing? I squeed out loud - like super loud - when I read Dav's random thing. :D

GonzoTheGreat
06-04-2014, 08:07 AM
One random thing? I squeed out loud - like super loud - when I read Dav's random thing. :D
That's not random, that's you being a girl. Try again (or not, of course*).

* There is try or no try, there is no do.

Marie Curie 7
06-05-2014, 05:05 PM
Who are you? Marie aka Jean

Where? right now: Cheese Land

How long at TL? since 2006

Will you reread soon? Yeah, after I finish relistening to TLotR.

What are you reading now? the Hugo voter pack - I'm just starting on the novelettes.

Read all forums, or just non? Pretty much all. And not just reading, but watching. The Chosen are watching everything, everybody. Mwa-ha-ha.

Favorite book? Err. WoT: not sure I can pick a favorite, maybe TSR. Overall: It varies. Right now I might pick The Crystal Cave, because Mary Stewart just passed away and I've been thinking about it.

Happy with the ending? With RJ's ending specifically: I'm coming to terms with it because I know it's what RJ wanted. The end of the series: not so much.

One random thing? June is Dairy Month! Eat Cheese or Die!

Anaiya Sedai
06-07-2014, 05:19 PM
Who are you? Ilse
Where? Devon, Uk
How long at TL? 2005 (fuuuuuuuck!)
Will you reread soon? Yes
What are you reading now? Warbreaker
Read all forums, or just non? All
Favorite book? Changes. Lord of Chaos, fires of heaven, towers of midnight
Happy with the ending? Mostly.
One random thing? I love avocado.

Frenzy
06-08-2014, 02:03 PM
Who are you? Frenzy

Where? Silly-con Valley, CA

How long at TL? since 1998

Will you reread soon? I still read to my kids every night, so i'll probably start WoT after we read the Hitchhiker's series.

What are you reading now? Words of Radiance (still...), then the next Dresden book

Read all forums, or just non? Most?

Favorite book? WoT: tSR Non-WoT? Depends on my mood.

Happy with the ending? I am content (though Moiraine should've stayed dead). At least i'm not bent about the stuff many others are twisted up over. (the pipe is a ter'angreal, get over it)

One random thing? I have to go to a Masquerade-themed auction later this year, and i'm trying to cobble together a Steampumk costume for it.

WinespringBrother
06-10-2014, 08:42 AM
Who are you? Ted
Where? New York, USA
How long at TL? since 2002
Will you reread soon? For next JordanCon, probably starting January
What are you reading now? The Undead Pool by Kim Harrison
Read all forums, or just non? scan all
Favorite book? KoD
Happy with the ending? I am
One random thing? I always thought that Rand's name was a programming reference to the computer function Random because of his ta'veren nature causing random unpredictable events to occur (ETA: and the Pattern essentially being a supercomputer)

Figbiscuit
06-13-2014, 02:26 PM
Hi, I'm Sarah. I can't remember when I joined but it was around the same time as Sare. I live in West Yorkshire, England, except that I now live in North Yorkshire in everything EXCEPT my postal address according to Royal Mail, which is really annoying.

I don't have a favourite book, except maybe A Crown of Swords, although if you ask me tomorrow that might have changed, and I was happy with the ending.

When getting glass of water out of the tap I always like to fill and empty it twice before I have my drink.

Sodas
06-14-2014, 05:59 PM
I think we need a roll call to see who is still poking around these parts.


Who are you? Lisa
Where? Michigan, USA
How long at TL? since 2000
Will you reread soon? Yes
What are you reading now? The Black Company
Read all forums, or just non? All
Favorite book? Changes, Fires of Heaven
Happy with the ending? 85%
One random thing? I just ate a pickle

*taps microphone*

Does this thing still work? erm, hmmm....

Hey my friends, HCFF's and Theorylanders, including those who I may have yet to meet,

I hope this finds you in good health and well being. I've missed you all, including those that I've had my share of tumbles with (eyes : Callandor), but what I've learned in it, and in some of the years since, is to appreciate diversity of thought. It pushes you to think deeper, and be more humble in your approach. I apologize if I ever offended.

So, in all seriousness, I hope this finds everyone well. I will always remember deep conversations in Wot and life, with Tamrylin, Sdog (Crispain), Frenzy, Isabela Sedai, Terez, Callandor, JWB, Eclipse, WSB, Sinsitrum, Gonzo, SBX, GLoTD, Marie Curie, YKS, Sei'taer, Saucey, Daekyras, KCF (although, he was more a Wotmania guy), Yuri, Tercel, Wierd Harold.... I could keep going, and don't mean to offend anyone, but I wanted to say thank you, thank you all, even if we didn't agree.

Now, that said, I wanted to say how proud I am as father. I have 3 boys, 9, 8 and 2. Both my older boys looked at my WoT collection the other day and wanted to start reading it. Some may recall that my original signed collection was stolen back in 2007, I've gotten some back, but sadly, I was missing the Eye of the World. As I headed to B&N today, I remembered Theoryland and all the smart people here. So I wanted to come back and say how I felt.

Anyway, you may see some new faces on the site and some old ones too :D

Here is my response to the roll call.

Who are you? Jeremy
Where? California
How long at Theoryland? Since 99? I'm not even sure.
Will you reread soon? Going to probably start this week with my oldest sons now that they are old enough to handle the subject matter. Both are excellent readers.
What are you reading now? Been working as an Architect/CAD designer, haven't had time to read new fantasy/sci-fi. So i'm open to new works that are worthwhile. I've mostly been reading scientific articles and books - such as David Berlinski's The Devil's Delussion, which I highly recommend. However, I'm going to be rereading much of my favorite books with my children, including WoT, Sparhawk series, D&D Midnight series, Sword of Truth, Hitchhiker's, Belgariad, The Color of Magic, Dragon riders of Pern, (they already know Redwall), etc.
Read all forums or just scan them? Not interested in theories much anymore, just people. :)
Favorite book : The Shadow Rising.
Happy with the ending? Yes, considering I called the body switch, with Rand walking away. Very happy with the ending, just wish some parts of the last 3 books were better written.
http://www.theoryland.com/factions.php?func=4&rec=155
^^^ was stuck endlessly in que, but I would have championed it
One random thing : Billy Bob Thorton is amazing in Fargo.

:D

Terez
06-14-2014, 08:00 PM
I just mentioned you a few weeks ago Sodas. I saw something in the notes that validated one of your theories that RJ later changed his mind on. Some time after the Encyclopedia comes out, I'll tell you which it was.

Sodas
06-14-2014, 08:13 PM
I just mentioned you a few weeks ago Sodas. I saw something in the notes that validated one of your theories that RJ later changed his mind on. Some time after the Encyclopedia comes out, I'll tell you which it was.

Good to see you Terez :)

I'm glad to hear about this Encyclopedia. Does it have an eta?

Terez
06-14-2014, 09:08 PM
Some time next year.

Isabel
06-14-2014, 09:26 PM
*taps microphone*

Does this thing still work? erm, hmmm....

Hey my friends, HCFF's and Theorylanders, including those who I may have yet to meet,

I hope this finds you in good health and well being. I've missed you all, including those that I've had my share of tumbles with (eyes : Callandor), but what I've learned in it, and in some of the years since, is to appreciate diversity of thought. It pushes you to think deeper, and be more humble in your approach. I apologize if I ever offended.

So, in all seriousness, I hope this finds everyone well. I will always remember deep conversations in Wot and life, with Tamrylin, Sdog (Crispain), Frenzy, Isabela Sedai, Terez, Callandor, JWB, Eclipse, WSB, Sinsitrum, Gonzo, SBX, GLoTD, Marie Curie, YKS, Sei'taer, Saucey, Daekyras, KCF (although, he was more a Wotmania guy), Yuri, Tercel, Wierd Harold.... I could keep going, and don't mean to offend anyone, but I wanted to say thank you, thank you all, even if we didn't agree.

Now, that said, I wanted to say how proud I am as father. I have 3 boys, 9, 8 and 2. Both my older boys looked at my WoT collection the other day and wanted to start reading it. Some may recall that my original signed collection was stolen back in 2007, I've gotten some back, but sadly, I was missing the Eye of the World. As I headed to B&N today, I remembered Theoryland and all the smart people here. So I wanted to come back and say how I felt.

Anyway, you may see some new faces on the site and some old ones too :D

Here is my response to the roll call.

Who are you? Jeremy
Where? California
How long at Theoryland? Since 99? I'm not even sure.
Will you reread soon? Going to probably start this week with my oldest sons now that they are old enough to handle the subject matter. Both are excellent readers.
What are you reading now? Been working as an Architect/CAD designer, haven't had time to read new fantasy/sci-fi. So i'm open to new works that are worthwhile. I've mostly been reading scientific articles and books - such as David Berlinski's The Devil's Delussion, which I highly recommend. However, I'm going to be rereading much of my favorite books with my children, including WoT, Sparhawk series, D&D Midnight series, Sword of Truth, Hitchhiker's, Belgariad, The Color of Magic, Dragon riders of Pern, (they already know Redwall), etc.
Read all forums or just scan them? Not interested in theories much anymore, just people. :)
Favorite book : The Shadow Rising.
Happy with the ending? Yes, considering I called the body switch, with Rand walking away. Very happy with the ending, just wish some parts of the last 3 books were better written.
http://www.theoryland.com/factions.php?func=4&rec=155
^^^ was stuck endlessly in que, but I would have championed it
One random thing : Billy Bob Thorton is amazing in Fargo.

:D

Good to hear from you Sodas:). Awesome to hear things are going well..
Its good to see people returning to the boards!

Sodas
06-14-2014, 10:18 PM
Some time next year.

Awesome.

I look forward to it.

You got me thinking back to my old theories...

:D

You know I've never gotten over the Asmodean question. Ever since I asked RJ myself what Taim was doing, I still can't figure out why he never wanted to reveal it. Maybe you will be able to fill me in one day, after the Encylopedia.

I appreciate the thought provoking comment.

Isabel,

How have you been? :)

Things are indeed going well. I had some changes in my life and now I have found out more about myself - what I want out of life, etc.

I'm looking at taking my boys to a convention - I was hoping to take them to RJ's home one day so they can see where he wrote. I've recently taken them to Zane Grey's home in Payson, Arizona, and I've wanted to take them to Twain's home as well. Seeing where an author lives can tell you much about their lives.

Anyway, I look forward to being back here more.:)

Sodas/Xoduz

Daekyras
06-16-2014, 04:51 AM
What are you reading now? some crappy romance with dragons in it :)


Yes, the later books in GoT do get shitty...;)

Daekyras
06-16-2014, 05:03 AM
Who are you? Doc

Where? Ireland- its small enough for cities not to matter!

How long at TL? Lurking for a LONG time. Joined first in 2001 I think

Will you reread soon? Yes, Out loud to kids. With Voices!

What are you reading now? On my desk- "Surely you're joking Mr.Feynman!" by Richard Feynman. Oh how I would love to have lived and hold my current job in the golden age of science.

Read all forums, or just non? All, when i can.

Favorite book? WoT- Fires of Heaven. The PERFECT fantasy novel. Non-WoT: Nine Naughty Kittens. My wee guy loves it.

Happy with the ending? No.

One random thing? I still think I have a "big" discovery to make in physics. Sometimes i feel so close it actually hurts.

GonzoTheGreat
06-16-2014, 05:34 AM
One random thing? I still think I have a "big" discovery to make in physics. Sometimes i feel so close it actually hurts.
You no doubt know the story of Newton seeing an apple fall while watching the Moon. I suggested to my father that he did that with a chili pepper and the Moon, so as to discover an alternative theory of gravity, but he didn't want to wait (it was still a couple of hours until moonrise then) and instead washed and chopped up the pepper for use in dinner. However, the idea behind this is obviously sound, so now you can try this experiment. You might want to wait less long than Newton did with publishing, though, what with the current "publish or perish" academic climate.

Daekyras
06-16-2014, 05:50 AM
what with the current "publish or perish" academic climate.

Don't get me started on that...i suffered that pressure a few years ago. thankfully, never again!

Isabel
06-16-2014, 01:48 PM
Yes, the later books in GoT do get shitty...;)

LOL, it's not GOT. Romance is not the main theme in GOT.:D

Isabel
06-16-2014, 01:51 PM
Awesome.

I look forward to it.

You got me thinking back to my old theories...

:D

You know I've never gotten over the Asmodean question. Ever since I asked RJ myself what Taim was doing, I still can't figure out why he never wanted to reveal it. Maybe you will be able to fill me in one day, after the Encylopedia.

I appreciate the thought provoking comment.

Isabel,

How have you been? :)

Things are indeed going well. I had some changes in my life and now I have found out more about myself - what I want out of life, etc.

I'm looking at taking my boys to a convention - I was hoping to take them to RJ's home one day so they can see where he wrote. I've recently taken them to Zane Grey's home in Payson, Arizona, and I've wanted to take them to Twain's home as well. Seeing where an author lives can tell you much about their lives.

Anyway, I look forward to being back here more.:)

Sodas/Xoduz

Hey Sodas,

I am doing well :) :) I have an own house, i am dating, have many good friends (looks at Dai and yks).
If you are looking to bring your boys to a convention, than you might think of Jordan Con :):) Would love to meet up with you in real life.
There are also lot's of really cool nice Theorylanders living in California, which you can meet.

Sodas
06-16-2014, 09:25 PM
That is wonderful to hear!

I would love to meet up at a Jordancon. Atlanta, right? or has that changed?

if all goes well, this winter should be moving to Denver area, which would make trips to the south easier.

btw, i do know a few old time members of theoryland \ heroes of the Horn guild in real life.

Isabel
06-16-2014, 11:55 PM
Yep, jordan con is still in Atlanta. Will be in april 2015:)

Rand al'Fain
06-17-2014, 12:38 AM
I don't much venture into the OT forum, but here it is.

Who are you? Chase
Where? Wyoming, USA
How long at TL? 2009 I think.
Will you reread soon? Probably.
What are you reading now? The Temeraire Series
Read all forums, or just non? Some of them.
Favorite book? In general, The Temeraire Series, WOT, AMOL
Happy with the ending? 90%
One random thing? I have the knees of an 80 year old man at the age of 24 (almost 25) and have had 5 knee surgeries so far in my life.

SauceyBlueConfetti
06-17-2014, 10:49 AM
SODAS!!!!


Nice to see some folks emerging from the dark forest of disappearing Heroes!!!

SauceyBlueConfetti
06-17-2014, 10:53 AM
Will you reread soon? Yes, Out loud to kids. With Voices!



Heh! Love it! My son asked me to tell him a story last week...normally I make stuff up for him, but I was kind of tired that night, sooooo..

once upon a time there was a boy who walked to town with his daddy and saw a bad guy on a horse.

I will admit, turning EotW into a kids story was kind of amusing. And my little man listened, enthralled. I think I got my second generation WoTkid hooked. :) But I didn't think of VOICES!!!!

Sodas
06-17-2014, 10:51 PM
SODAS!!!!


Nice to see some folks emerging from the dark forest of disappearing Heroes!!!

Hah!

I wish SoCal had any type of forest. We have been burnt to cinders out here.

So if anything, it's more like we are emerging from the Aiel Waste... looking for shade and water. :D;)

Cor Shan
07-18-2014, 01:24 AM
Who are you? Elliot
Where? Vancouver
How long at TL? 2004? Late 2003?
Will you reread soon? Just finished one this winter. Maybe I'll sit on it for a year.
What are you reading now? Jack White's Camulod series.
Read all forums, or just non? All
Favorite book? No idea.
Happy with the ending? 66.667%. But cut out Androl and the terrible speech patterns and it's about 90%
One random thing? I should be in bed?

bowlwoman
07-18-2014, 10:34 AM
Who are you? Becky

Where? Austin, 10 miles south of Ivhon (I win!)

How long at TL? since 2009

Will you reread soon? probably, as soon as I purchase ebooks of everything

What are you reading now? just finished The Book of Life (All Souls Trilogy)

Read all forums, or just non? All

Favorite book? The Dragon Reborn

Happy with the ending? mostly.

One random thing? I am having my third spawn in December. Happy it's a boy!

yks 6nnetu hing
07-18-2014, 11:17 AM
Welcome back! Congratulations! Squee!

Isabel
07-18-2014, 12:19 PM
Woohoo more and more people coming back.

Oh and bowlwoman: have you met Ivhon?:)

Light Ranger
07-18-2014, 03:35 PM
Who are you? Kevin (my GW1 and 2 buddies call me Light)

Where? in 3 weeks, Plano, TX

How long at TL? 5+ years mostly lurking.

Will you reread soon? I'm the only surviving GW1 guildmate from Heroes of the Horn guild who didn't read WoT and yet still had fun playing with them. (blasphemy, I know)

What are you reading now? nothing...when I read, I literally need a free weekend, because I can't put down a book to save my life, and I haven't had a free weekend since March when I read my new favorite book. (see below)

Read all forums, or just non? just non

Favorite book? Voyage to Alpha Centauri by Michael O Brien. Set almost a century later about a man who invented FTL space travel and his voyage with over 600 others to the title's star system. If anyone wants to dare, here's the official sample first chapter:
http://www.ignatius.com/Content/Site107/ProductDesc/272011VACHChap1_00000016994.pdf

Happy with the ending? WoT ended? Really? Woohoo! 14 books I don't have to worry about reading! *dodges SBX's whip*

One random thing? Thought about going to QuakeCon here in Dallas this weekend, but then I realized I wouldn't get any SLEEP.

bowlwoman
07-18-2014, 04:01 PM
Oh and bowlwoman: have you met Ivhon?:)

No, not yet. Maybe we can do a southern US meetup sometime.

Jokeslayer
07-18-2014, 04:35 PM
Who are you? Simon
Where? Cornwall, England. Recently moved back in with my parents because yay unemployment.
How long at TL? Feb 2005 for the main site, shortly after for the forums
Will you reread soon? Probably not. I read through to TPOD about 18 months ago and then gave up. Now I kind of want to but if I start at TEOTW I'll get bored again and if I start anywhere else I'll feel like I've forgotten what's going on
What are you reading now? Herodotus' Histories
Read all forums, or just non? Mostly just non. Reading the wot forums always seems to end up with me in a needlessly agitated argument.
Favorite book? WOT: Winter's Heart. non-WoT: something Pratchett. Feet of Clay or The Fifth Elephant, probably.
Happy with the ending? I guess. Androl got too much focus for someone who pretty much came out of nowhere right at the end, that respawning village was pretty dumb, Fain was a bit pointless in the end (AFAIR) and I wasn't too happy with the way Rand left a bunch of important people in the dark. But given that RJ died, I think we did ok with the ending we got.
One random thing? I'm not really sure this is an appropriate use of the word random.

Daekyras
07-18-2014, 09:20 PM
One random thing? I'm not really sure this is an appropriate use of the word random.

Yes, if my students are to be an indicator of anything the only appropriate use of the word random is following the word "so" as in "so random". Usually accompanied by a stupid picture. And often that phrase itself is preceded by "OMG" which i take to be an acronym of "one mighty gorilla".

Nazbaque
07-18-2014, 09:58 PM
Yes, if my students are to be an indicator of anything the only appropriate use of the word random is following the word "so" as in "so random". Usually accompanied by a stupid picture. And often that phrase itself is preceded by "OMG" which i take to be an acronym of "one mighty gorilla".

OMG! That was so random!

Sodas
07-19-2014, 08:36 PM
Who are you? Kevin (my GW1 and 2 buddies call me Light)

....

Will you reread soon? I'm the only surviving GW1 guildmate from Heroes of the Horn guild who didn't read WoT and yet still had fun playing with them. (blasphemy, I know)

Not blasphemy. Many other members hadn't read wot.

In other words, I'm glad you enjoyed the Guild.

Ivhon
07-19-2014, 09:12 PM
Who are you? Becky

Where? Austin, 10 miles south of Ivhon (I win!)



You realize I just moved....south....by about ten miles.

Where are you again?

fdsaf3
07-20-2014, 12:32 PM
OMG! That was so random!

When in doubt, I use the term stochastic instead of random. It seems people often misconstrue the word random, but no one does for stochastic (mostly since they've never heard it before). It's win-win.

GonzoTheGreat
07-21-2014, 03:00 AM
Stochastic means drunk, doesn't it?
That's why the Drunkard's Walk is a form of Random Walk.

bowlwoman
07-21-2014, 01:01 PM
You realize I just moved....south....by about ten miles.

Where are you again?

78729 zip code, just over the tip of the V that makes up the border between Travis/Williamson County (we're on the Wilco side). We may have to PM addresses to see who wins this pissing contest. :P And you know, get kiddos together for a playdate or something.

Sukoto
07-21-2014, 01:13 PM
Who are you? Sukoto

Where? California for now

How long at TL? Since 2006

Will you reread soon? Not likely. Just not feeling it right now.

What are you reading now? Recently finished Words of Radiance. I broke my resolution to never again start another unfinished series. Shame on me.

Read all forums, or just non? All forums? Surely not. I deem this question inadequate.

Favorite book? A Crown of Swords

Happy with the ending? I'm just happy it's over.

One random thing? Je n'habite ni avec ma mère ni avec ma grand-mère. Ma mère habite très loin d'ici. Mes deux grand-mères sont décédées depuis quelques années.

Terez
07-21-2014, 01:33 PM
Je n'habite ni avec ma mère ni avec ma grand-mère. Ma mère habite très loin d'ici. Mes deux grand-mères sont décédées depuis quelques années.
J'ai eu le plaisir de la connaissance des deux grands-mères et tout quatre arrières-grands-mères. Et deux belles-grands-mères. Le mort premier arriva dans mon douzième an.

S'il vous plaît, pardonnez-vous mon français terrible. PS: J'ai corrigé quelque l'erreurs, et probablement commets autres maintenant.

Cor Shan
07-21-2014, 08:19 PM
J'aime la fin du monde.

mmm biere.

Khoram
07-21-2014, 10:39 PM
Avez-vous vu cet film récemment?

rand
07-21-2014, 11:18 PM
Oui oui! Je ne parle pas beaucoup français, mais j'ai un chapeau de fromage que je peux transformer en un grand parapluie vert si nécessaire. Malheureusement, j'ai laissé tomber hier et il m'a écrasé par un camion à ordures. Sacre bleu!

Hopefully that came out right, I was just using google to translate. It's supposed to say I still live with my parents, but it might be a bit off.

Khoram
07-21-2014, 11:53 PM
Well, whether it was supposed to be about you still living with your parents or not, I still enjoyed the story of your cheese hat that could turn into a green umbrella. Although I was sad to hear that it crushed you. And that a garbage truck was somehow involved, too. :rolleyes:

Terez
07-22-2014, 12:29 AM
Well, whether it was supposed to be about you still living with your parents or not, I still enjoyed the story of your cheese hat that could turn into a green umbrella. Although I was sad to hear that it crushed you. And that a garbage truck was somehow involved, too. :rolleyes:
Non, c'est un chose vrai!

http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/06.12/images/cheesehead.jpg

Ou, deux choses...

http://i.walmartimages.com/i/mp/00/80/43/71/97/0080437197404_P255062_500X500.jpg

Demandez me pas à ce sujet de le camion à ordures.

Zombie Sammael
07-22-2014, 12:49 AM
Posting in French ought to be grounds for a ban.

GonzoTheGreat
07-22-2014, 02:56 AM
Posting in French ought to be grounds for a ban.
But that requires for a Mod or Admin to admit that they can recognize French. Since they're not willing to do so (for obvious reasons), I don't think that it would be dangerous to post in French here. Of course, for the same obvious reason, I can't tell whether anyone did post in French.

Nazbaque
07-22-2014, 06:48 AM
And since it's all in writing we can't tell if they have those outrageous accents.

Tomp
07-22-2014, 07:36 AM
Yay. My universal translator works again.
It stopped working for a couple of posts and it all came up as gibberish.

But now it's back to normal. :)

sleepinghour
07-22-2014, 08:02 AM
Yay. My universal translator works again.
It stopped working for a couple of posts and it all came up as gibberish.


Ja, det är synnerligen oartigt när andra talar obegripliga grodspråk i stället för världsspråk såsom engelska och svenska.

rand
07-22-2014, 09:03 AM
Zut alors! Traducteurs sur l'Internet ne fonctionnent pas toujours. J'écris un typo et tout d'un coup un morse faim dans un hélicoptère atterrit sur mon épaule pour prendre toute mes concombres de mer.

Terez
07-22-2014, 12:56 PM
Ja, det är synnerligen oartigt när andra talar obegripliga grodspråk i stället för världsspråk såsom engelska och svenska.
Grodspråk ist ein gute Wort.

Zombie Sammael
07-22-2014, 06:31 PM
Er slark blat fermed. Gusler vron nekt hergest. Ilber slat neht vron mergel dumer hapt, ect frem glar vron tukest blat slark. Guned frut mergle blarg.

Nazbaque
07-22-2014, 07:15 PM
... Teillä kaikilla on todella tylsää.

Davian93
07-22-2014, 09:12 PM
A Møøse once bit my sister...

Khoram
07-22-2014, 09:43 PM
A Møøse once bit my sister...

Was the Møøse lonely? :rolleyes:

GonzoTheGreat
07-23-2014, 03:18 AM
A Møøse once bit my sister...
And then she started singing, "Baby, bit me one more time".

DahLliA
07-23-2014, 04:53 AM
A Møøse once bit my sister...

Minj du krøpp, sei meg du injgong. Åssen klarte hu å bli bete tå en elj?

Tomp
07-23-2014, 11:15 AM
Vad faan pratar ni om?

Älgar och skit.

Terez
07-23-2014, 11:45 AM
Vad faan pratar ni om?

Älgar och skit.
I think it has something to do with Canada.

GonzoTheGreat
07-23-2014, 11:50 AM
I think it has something to do with Canada.
Big deal. Everything's got to do with Canada.

Terez
07-23-2014, 12:09 PM
What about yağlı güreş?

Callandor
07-24-2014, 12:35 AM
Who are you? Callandor
Where? Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
How long at TL? Since 2002, if you call this being active.
Will you reread soon? In all honesty, probably not.
What are you reading now? Organic Chemistry by John E. McMurry (http://www.amazon.com/Organic-Chemistry-John-E-McMurry/dp/0840054440/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1406175843&sr=8-11&keywords=organic+chemistry). The suspense is intense.
Read all forums, or just non? All, when I get here.
Favorite WoT book? I prefer scenes to books. Lord of Chaos has the best climax, The Eye of the World starts it all off, The Great Hunt has Falme, and the Dragon Reborn has the capture of the Stone (and me!). The Shadow Rising has the history of the Aiel, Winter's Heart has the Cleansing, and on and on and on.
Other favorite book? General Chemistry: The Essential Concepts by Raymond Chang is some seriously good stuff.
Happy with the ending? Rand should have died and stayed dead. The "Ignore everyone I ever cared about and wander" is not a believable ending. It was RJ's ending, just flawed.
One random thing? Carbocations are geometrically planar, and that explains why they form racemic mixtures.
Last meal you ate? Pulled pork sandwich.
Major thing you're doing with your life in the next 6 months? Applying to grad school, I guess.
Anything bizarre today? In lab today, we had to mix bleach with acetic acid in a fume hood. This produced chlorine gas, which when inhaled is not good (Hint: it forms acid in your lungs). Another student decided to take a big whiff of the "cool yellow-green fog coming off my mixture." Amazingly they reacted by coughing in a lot of pain.
Pets? No, but I want a cat again.
Children? No spawn, and none for the near future.
Recent moment of supreme stupidity? I had this thought a few weeks ago:
Callandor: "What are those crazy tail things that drape down from a coat?"
Significant Other: "... Coattails..."
Last movie you saw? 2001: A Space Odyssey in 70mm. Still cannot spell Odyssey correctly.
Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter? Winter and Fall every time. Summer is the death by a thousand days of humidity.
Your death: how's that going to happen? My bet is on cancer (http://youtu.be/1ytCEuuW2_A).
That's a downer, cheer me up! Here you go (http://youtu.be/cVV3QQ3wjC8).
Enlighten me! Trees get almost all of their mass from the air, not from extracting it from the ground.
What number am I thinking of? That's Numberwang!
Truth or lies? You find out (http://youtu.be/xucftHG9zPo).


http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/pimp.gif

Nazbaque
07-24-2014, 12:54 AM
Callie!!!

*Hug*

bowlwoman
07-24-2014, 08:49 AM
So THIS is what I got my French degree for. Finally, something I can do with it. :P Now I guess I have to learn Swedish too...

yks 6nnetu hing
07-24-2014, 10:05 AM
So THIS is what I got my French degree for. Finally, something I can do with it. :P Now I guess I have to learn Swedish too...

aga õpi eesti keel ka ära :D

Hugh the Hand
07-24-2014, 11:42 AM
Hugh (Geoff)

Jacksonville FL

1998, still only an Ancient most likely due to politics. or my lack of posting.

Re-reading now

mostly just read MoL forum

Fire of Heaven

ending was ok. could have been MUCH worse.

I am typing this while heading to Orlando.

Terez
07-24-2014, 12:40 PM
So THIS is what I got my French degree for. Finally, something I can do with it. :P
Yes, you can go back and correct all my terrible French. :D

I was doing pretty good with translation for a while until Dom disappeared again (which he does from time to time), but I still can't construct a proper sentence. That's something I have almost zero practice at doing. I need to get a workbook or something.

GonzoTheGreat
07-25-2014, 03:33 AM
You could start with the Wheel of Time. Translate everything said by a woman into French, and everything said by a man into German. Leave the rest as it is, to save time. The Old Tongue could be transcribed in cuneiform, if you want.

Terez
07-25-2014, 12:56 PM
I think I need a workbook so I can actually check to see if I'm doing it wrong. I have a workbook on French verbs; that will probably be a good start.

Seeker
07-25-2014, 06:17 PM
Who are you? Rich.

Where? Ontario, Canada.

How long at TL? Lurker 1998 - 2003. Registered member 2004 - present.

Will you reread soon? Now that it's done, I don't think I'll read WOT again.

What are you reading now? The most recent book I "read" (listened to) is Skin Game.

Read all forums? Gen WOT, Other Books, Non.

Favorite book? Right now it's Mistborn 1.

Happy with the ending? 25% The ending was depressing.

One random thing?

I just wanna know..

OOOOH OOOH OOOH OOOOH

At the end of time and space,

OOOOH OOOH OOOH OOOOH

Who'll remember the human race?

OOOOH OOOH OOOH OOOOH

All the good and all the bad?

OOOOH OOOH OOOH OOOOH

Who'll remember the fun we had?

ShadowbaneX
07-25-2014, 08:32 PM
Hollerado's made it down to Toronto have they?

Seeker
07-26-2014, 01:35 AM
Hollerado's made it down to Toronto have they?

I wanna tell you there's a really good reason why I came home wasted in the middle of the night.

A tiny kingdom at the bottom of the trees where I was always a winner and I was usually right.

Well, you can watch it when you get a bit older, but for now, in the bad bits, I should cover your eyes.

She painted pictures with the tips of her fingers, sewing buttons to Bambi, tying strings to a kite.

OOOOOOH OOOOOOOH OOOOOOH OOOOOH

Turning into black and white.


OOOOOOH OOOOOOOH OOOOOOH OOOOOH

Underneath the city lights.

OOOOOOH OOOOOOOH OOOOOOH OOOOOH

Barely awake but I still got my stripes.

You're the killer with the coloured kite.

Daekyras
07-26-2014, 08:10 AM
One random thing? Carbocations are geometrically planar, and that explains why they form racemic mixtures.
]

Well, it allows them to form the mixtures , as in it makes the process possible, but it doesn't explain WHY they do. There are a multitude factors that contribute to that question.

Ah yes, a semi knowledgable yet vague chemistry response. As a physicist, i believe my work here is done...of course a chemist couldn't even start their work until one of us paved the way and left signposts ..

The Unreasoner
07-26-2014, 03:18 PM
Well, it allows them to form the mixtures , as in it makes the process possible, but it doesn't explain WHY they do. There are a multitude factors that contribute to that question.

Ah yes, a semi knowledgable yet vague chemistry response. As a physicist, i believe my work here is done...of course a chemist couldn't even start their work until one of us paved the way and left signposts ..

And the mathematicians gave you the tools to pave it. And the paint (crayons?) to write the signs.

Prick. Lol

GonzoTheGreat
07-27-2014, 03:41 AM
Of course, those mathematicians couldn't have done that if Pythagoras hadn't heard a smith make music.
This is all about blacksmithing, how could you not see that?

Sukoto
07-27-2014, 09:43 PM
Yes, you can go back and correct all my terrible French. :D

I was doing pretty good with translation for a while until Dom disappeared again (which he does from time to time), but I still can't construct a proper sentence. That's something I have almost zero practice at doing. I need to get a workbook or something.

J'ai eu le plaisir de la connaissance des deux grands-mères et tout quatre arrières-grands-mères. Et deux belles-grands-mères. Le mort premier arriva dans mon douzième an.

S'il vous plaît, pardonnez-vous mon français terrible. PS: J'ai corrigé quelque l'erreurs, et probablement commets autres maintenant.

Here's my correction. Disclaimer: I am not a native speaker, but close enough ;)

J'ai eu le plaisir de connaître deux grand-mères, quatre arrière-grand-mères et deux belle-grand-mères. Le premier decès s'est passé quand j'avais douze ans.

S'il vous plaît, pardonnez mon mauvais français. PS: J'ai corrigé quelques erreurs, et j'ai probablement commis encore d'autres.

Terez
07-28-2014, 11:08 PM
Thank you. :)

Gilshalos Sedai
08-05-2014, 02:17 PM
Eh, what the hell...

Who are you? Gil. ;)
Where? Texas, USA
How long at TL? since 1998
Will you reread soon? Nope
What are you reading now? Dresden. Skin Game
Read all forums, or just non? I meander.
Favorite book? Mine.
Happy with the ending? 75%
One random thing? I recently got highlights for the first time.

Daekyras
08-12-2014, 10:35 AM
I recently got highlights for the first time.

So you are telling us that some of your strands of hair are more worthy of attention when we study??

Gilshalos Sedai
08-14-2014, 08:15 AM
So you are telling us that some of your strands of hair are more worthy of attention when we study??

Why are you studying my hair?

GonzoTheGreat
08-14-2014, 10:01 AM
Why are you studying my hair?
Somebody has to do it.

Nazbaque
08-14-2014, 10:49 AM
Somebody has to do it.
Why? Is there something important in Gil's hair?

GonzoTheGreat
08-14-2014, 11:11 AM
Why? Is there something important in Gil's hair?
Well, just look at it!

tworiverswoman
08-14-2014, 11:31 AM
This thread has devolved in the weirdest direction....

Who are you? Tru
Where? still Hawaii
How long at TL? since 11/2005
Will you reread soon? Nope, but my neighbor is reading it (for the first time) and complaining MASSIVELY about Nynaeve. I may have to read a book or two just to remember what he's talking about...
What are you reading now? re-reading Eddings. I'd forgotten how much fun those books are.
Read all forums, or just non? mostly non with occasional forays
Favorite book? of all time? Civil Campaign by Bujold
Happy with the ending? I was when I read it, not so much after discussing it later...
One random thing? Purple Dragon got married two hours ago. I got out of bed at 3:30 am to watch it on a laptop webcam they took with them just so I COULD watch it. :D

Terez
08-14-2014, 12:03 PM
Speak her name, and she comes!

Gilshalos Sedai
08-14-2014, 12:21 PM
Well, just look at it!

Yes. I have awesome hair.

Davian93
08-14-2014, 06:48 PM
re-reading Eddings. I'd forgotten how much fun those books are.

Those were my first foray into Fantasy and as such, they have always had a special place in my heart. I read the Sparhawk ones first and then the Garion ones.

ShadowbaneX
08-14-2014, 07:09 PM
I used to really like those books...then I heard them in audiobook and I can never read them again.

tworiverswoman
08-14-2014, 08:48 PM
The only audio books I've ever enjoyed were the Harry Potter series, with Jim Dale reading. He was pretty awesome.

I tried to listen to a Lord of the Rings audio - but holy crap they were dreary. Plus the guy went so far as to sing ALL the songs. Bravo for completionalism, boo for boring.

The Pratchett audio files I have are seriously broken. Whole chapters are either missing or swapped around. Or they skip. INCREDIBLY annoying to listen to.

GonzoTheGreat
08-15-2014, 02:48 AM
The Pratchett audio files I have are seriously broken. Whole chapters are either missing or swapped around. Or they skip. INCREDIBLY annoying to listen to.
Somebody stole your Narrativium.

Nazbaque
08-15-2014, 03:46 AM
The only audio books I've ever enjoyed were the Harry Potter series, with Jim Dale reading. He was pretty awesome.

I tried to listen to a Lord of the Rings audio - but holy crap they were dreary. Plus the guy went so far as to sing ALL the songs. Bravo for completionalism, boo for boring.

The Pratchett audio files I have are seriously broken. Whole chapters are either missing or swapped around. Or they skip. INCREDIBLY annoying to listen to.
The ones read by Tony Robinson are abridged versions, which is a shame because he is a bloody good reader. The unabridged ones are read by Michael Plainer up to Carpe Jugulum and the rest by Steven Briggs. Most of mine are good.

As for Harry Potter, I haven't heard the Jim Dale ones, but mine are read by Stephen Fry and you can't get better than that so...

And I've got the same LOTR. I usually listen to it while playing civ so it isn't quite that boring.

Tomp
08-15-2014, 06:19 AM
Those were my first foray into Fantasy and as such, they have always had a special place in my heart. I read the Sparhawk ones first and then the Garion ones.

I first read everything Tolkien (more or less), then I read Eddings and after that I broadened my speculative fiction book consumption in all directions.

I prefer the Sparhawk books. There are better one liners in those, especially in the Tamuli series.

Nowadays I can't read Eddings any more.
Don't know why, maybe I've become to critical concerning beleivable characters.

Davian93
08-15-2014, 07:14 AM
I first read everything Tolkien (more or less), then I read Eddings and after that I broadened my speculative fiction book consumption in all directions.

I prefer the Sparhawk books. There are better one liners in those, especially in the Tamuli series.

Nowadays I can't read Eddings any more.
Don't know why, maybe I've become to critical concerning beleivable characters.

I think they're nice young adult fantasy books...far better than reading Terry Brooks for example (who I tried to reread a couple of his books as an adult a couple years ago and was amazed at just how awful they really are. I remember them being fairly mediocre when I was 14...rereading them in my 30s actually caused physical pain.

Eddings books were filled with a bunch of 1-dimensional characters (every Cherek is the same, every Drasnian is the same, every Rivan is the same, etc etc) but they were still a fun read. I was able to suspend disbelief in much the same way I can when watching Star Trek when every new species all dresses the same and all pretty much look the same.

Also, I've never been able to listen to audio books. They drive me insane overall as the story is so slow compared to just reading it.

Gilshalos Sedai
08-15-2014, 08:16 AM
Would you believe Brooks now has a deal with MTV to produce a TV Series based on the Shanarra books?

Davian93
08-15-2014, 09:02 AM
Would you believe Brooks now has a deal with MTV to produce a TV Series based on the Shanarra books?

I could just toss a couple of Cliffs Notes versions of LotR into a blender with some taco bell and "film" the results in my toilet 3 hours later instead.

The production values would probably be about the same and I'd take far less money to do it.

Nazbaque
08-15-2014, 10:07 AM
I could just toss a couple of Cliffs Notes versions of LotR into a blender with some taco bell and "film" the results in my toilet 3 hours later instead.

The production values would probably be about the same and I'd take far less money to do it.

Ah but that would go far above MTV's quality standards so they wouldn't show it.

Daekyras
08-15-2014, 10:48 AM
I think they're nice young adult fantasy books...far better than reading Terry Brooks for example (who I tried to reread a couple of his books as an adult a couple years ago and was amazed at just how awful they really are. I remember them being fairly mediocre when I was 14...rereading them in my 30s actually caused physical pain.

Eddings books were filled with a bunch of 1-dimensional characters (every Cherek is the same, every Drasnian is the same, every Rivan is the same, etc etc) but they were still a fun read. I was able to suspend disbelief in much the same way I can when watching Star Trek when every new species all dresses the same and all pretty much look the same.

Also, I've never been able to listen to audio books. They drive me insane overall as the story is so slow compared to just reading it.

I read the belgariad and mallorean when i was young. Enjoyed it immensely.

Then i read the elenium(first sparhawk trilogy) a few year later and loved it as its basically the same story but instead of an untrained farmboy as the main protagonist is an adult badass. And he really was. Damn, he could give Lan a run for his money

Then i tried the tamuli when i was 14 and....just like that, eddings was done for me. The same basic premise for a fourth time is just pushing it. I haven't read him since but my eldest currently has pawn if prophecy and she likes it so maybe it really is an age thing.

Davian93
08-15-2014, 10:55 AM
I read the belgariad and mallorean when i was young. Enjoyed it immensely.

Then i read the elenium(first sparhawk trilogy) a few year later and loved it as its basically the same story but instead of an untrained farmboy as the main protagonist is an adult badass. And he really was. Damn, he could give Lan a run for his money

Then i tried the tamuli when i was 14 and....just like that, eddings was done for me. The same basic premise for a fourth time is just pushing it. I haven't read him since but my eldest currently has pawn if prophecy and she likes it so maybe it really is an age thing.

I imagine I wouldn't care for them at all if I was an adult when I read them....and I agree they are definitely repetitive.

I never read LotR until I was older and thus, I have never cared for them that much.

Tomp
08-18-2014, 04:31 PM
Posting in French ought to be grounds for a ban.

I agree and so does this guy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRe_WE8ss1c).

Gilshalos Sedai
08-20-2014, 09:12 AM
Eddings wrote the Belgariad to prove to his students that anyone could write an epic fantasy. As a history professor, he knew way too much about formulaic "heroic journeys" and not enough about what makes those journeys heroic. If you get me.

Nazbaque
08-20-2014, 09:52 AM
Eddings wrote the Belgariad to prove to his students that anyone could write an epic fantasy. As a history professor, he knew way too much about formulaic "heroic journeys" and not enough about what makes those journeys heroic. If you get me.

I know exactly what you mean. Some years ago I read the dreamers series and it is very nearly a classic example of formulaic writing.

Davian93
08-20-2014, 01:46 PM
Eddings wrote the Belgariad to prove to his students that anyone could write an epic fantasy. As a history professor, he knew way too much about formulaic "heroic journeys" and not enough about what makes those journeys heroic. If you get me.

It's kinda like the Paolini books...except fairly well written and far less grammatical and spelling mistakes.

Gilshalos Sedai
08-22-2014, 08:42 AM
It's kinda like the Paolini books...except fairly well written and far less grammatical and spelling mistakes.

Yeah... but Paolini was 14 when he wrote them. I have nothing but respect for Paolini. I have no desire to read his books... but I respect the hell out of someone who sat down and wrote an entire coherent series at the age of 14-16.

Davian93
08-22-2014, 12:08 PM
Yeah... but Paolini was 14 when he wrote them. I have nothing but respect for Paolini. I have no desire to read his books... but I respect the hell out of someone who sat down and wrote an entire coherent series at the age of 14-16.

I don't...if for no other reason than everything in his life was handed to him on a silver platter thanks to Mommy/Daddy using their connections to get his awful, derivative, almost plagiarized books published. Lots of 14 year olds write crappy fiction...he's the only one that got published.

Those books are just terrible...even accounting for his age. I also suspect that he had a good editor/ghostwriter that polished the diarrhea into the turds they currently are.

Gilshalos Sedai
08-22-2014, 12:40 PM
I don't...if for no other reason than everything in his life was handed to him on a silver platter thanks to Mommy/Daddy using their connections to get his awful, derivative, almost plagiarized books published. Lots of 14 year olds write crappy fiction...he's the only one that got published.

Those books are just terrible...even accounting for his age. I also suspect that he had a good editor/ghostwriter that polished the diarrhea into the turds they currently are.

Dav.... have you written a book? Much less carried a narrative through a series of what... 4 books?

Then don't throw stones. Yeah, he lifted a lot of the story elements from Star Wars and LOTR, among other things, but the series was picked up, un-edited after a rep found his step-son reading it. His parents didn't "use their connections" to do anything but self-publish. Something a lot of authors do nowadays. FYI: The Inheritance Cycle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inheritance_Cycle).

So no, no throwing stones on the accomplishment itself till you've written one, ok? He didn't plagiarize anything, or Lucas and Christopher Tolkien would own his ass.

You can criticize the skill, sure... just don't denigrate the accomplishment. I've had to change my tune on a lot of my criticism after the time I've spent on writing.

SauceyBlueConfetti
08-22-2014, 01:45 PM
I would disagree. I did read Eragon and was appalled. He didn't write them...he spit out stuff he had already read/seen using different wording---which he ADMITS. And I am being generous when I say it is poorly scrabbled together writing. If you see his information it clearly references authors/films etc. that he "deliberately" followed/mimicked.

He read a "how to write a book" book and followed it...step by step...by reversing other fantasy author naming protocols (Muad'Dib = bid'daum, using anagrams, etc.

His parents did self publish--but they were PUBLISHERS...but that doesn't make it a good work. To be honest, from his interviews he strikes me as having Aspergers Syndrome (similar to autism) This was a path he followed because IT WAS THERE and he needed to follow a path. Which is fine. But lauding him as an "author" is too much for me. The book got little or no attention until the kid/relative of a publisher found it and mentioned it in passing (which has become LEGEND). THEN it was re-edited. A few times. If the final product was the EDITED version I cannot imagine what his original draft was like. ::shudder::

When I was in kindergarten, I wrote a story. I still have it. It was written on that old, faded, light green paper with the three lines that help kids learn how to capitalize words. It was, almost word for word, the story The Time Machine by H.G. Wells. I had seen the movie apparently the day before and just wrote it down. My teacher wrote on the paper "Wow, amazing imagination! S+" (S+ = Satisfactory Plus = A+ from that time period) When I recently found that in a box of stuff my mom had saved over the years I WAS APALLED. APALLED. Not one adult caught the fact that I wrote down a famous novel plot.

I equate Eragon to that story. He regurgitated something in a manner that was sort of acceptable and no one really took the time to figure out it was plagiarism, poorly done. The publisher who "found" it through his kid should be shot.

Then it got "Oprah-fied" through her book club and all bets were off. People who NEVER read books suddenly were determining the top 10 bestsellers based only on the reglion of WOO. Words of Oprah. I cannot say it enough...apalling.

Daekyras
08-22-2014, 01:47 PM
Ive written three books. Two even got published- but they were both factual. One on the effects of annealing on glass and the other on the creation of the x-ray laser. Both were mindnumbingly boring to anyone who wasn't an academic and....just boring to those that were.

My other attempt was a novel. It was about a physics professor with a dark past(possibly in the IRA) and his revenge when tragedy strikes his family.

That was NOT published. In fact, i didn't even get a reply when i sent it to every publisher i could find in Ireland and England.

Just recently i dug it out to take a look. It was, without a shadow of a doubt, the highest pile of tripe ever created. The main guy was basically Wesley crusher crossed with macguyver with a sprinkling of Arnold Schwarzenegger from the eighties. So, so bad!

fdsaf3
08-22-2014, 02:22 PM
It's a little strange to me how overtly some of you wear (and proudly, it seems) your badges of cynicism and negativity. To each their own, I guess, but I can't imagine how it's pleasurable to have such a mentality.

Are people here forgetting that Robert Jordan - the author whose work brought us all together - essentially recreated the Shire and the opening plot of the Lord of the Rings during the first hundred or so pages of Eye of the World?* I guess Robert Jordan is a plagiarist, no?

If you break down the vast majority of fantasy literature to barebones essentials, they all involve tropes like Paolini's work does. Do we say that everything involving tropes like the Hero's Journey is derivative and borderline plagiarism? Nope. It's not my personal cup of tea, but Eragon is, at least in my opinion, clearly a work which stands on its own feet. The only caveat I'll add is that I haven't read any of the other books in the series and I haven't read the first book in probably 10 years.

I'm not sure what the justification for the attitude being displayed in this discussion, but I, for one, find it extremely off-putting. I don't mean to start a pissing contest, but comments like this:

To be honest, from his interviews he strikes me as having Aspergers Syndrome (similar to autism) This was a path he followed because IT WAS THERE and he needed to follow a path. Which is fine. But lauding him as an "author" is too much for me.

seem really off-base. As far as I can tell, it's either an unnecessary mention of a behavioral disorder he has no control over, or it's an offensive generalization which isn't true. Either way, it doesn't sit well with me.

It's honestly *not my intention to call anyone out. Have whatever opinions you want. My objection is in how those opinions are being voiced. It seems we're straying a bit over the line from criticizing the work to criticizing the person, and that isn't something I'm generally OK with.

Davian93
08-22-2014, 02:37 PM
I would disagree. I did read Eragon and was appalled. He didn't write them...he spit out stuff he had already read/seen using different wording---which he ADMITS. And I am being generous when I say it is poorly scrabbled together writing. If you see his information it clearly references authors/films etc. that he "deliberately" followed/mimicked.

He read a "how to write a book" book and followed it...step by step...by reversing other fantasy author naming protocols (Muad'Dib = bid'daum, using anagrams, etc.

His parents did self publish--but they were PUBLISHERS...but that doesn't make it a good work. To be honest, from his interviews he strikes me as having Aspergers Syndrome (similar to autism) This was a path he followed because IT WAS THERE and he needed to follow a path. Which is fine. But lauding him as an "author" is too much for me. The book got little or no attention until the kid/relative of a publisher found it and mentioned it in passing (which has become LEGEND). THEN it was re-edited. A few times. If the final product was the EDITED version I cannot imagine what his original draft was like. ::shudder::

When I was in kindergarten, I wrote a story. I still have it. It was written on that old, faded, light green paper with the three lines that help kids learn how to capitalize words. It was, almost word for word, the story The Time Machine by H.G. Wells. I had seen the movie apparently the day before and just wrote it down. My teacher wrote on the paper "Wow, amazing imagination! S+" (S+ = Satisfactory Plus = A+ from that time period) When I recently found that in a box of stuff my mom had saved over the years I WAS APALLED. APALLED. Not one adult caught the fact that I wrote down a famous novel plot.

I equate Eragon to that story. He regurgitated something in a manner that was sort of acceptable and no one really took the time to figure out it was plagiarism, poorly done. The publisher who "found" it through his kid should be shot.

Then it got "Oprah-fied" through her book club and all bets were off. People who NEVER read books suddenly were determining the top 10 bestsellers based only on the reglion of WOO. Words of Oprah. I cannot say it enough...apalling.

This...10000000% THIS

Davian93
08-22-2014, 02:43 PM
The only caveat I'll add is that I haven't read any of the other books in the series and I haven't read the first book in probably 10 years.

For one, it goes far beyond mimicking tropes with Paolini and he, himself, openly admitted "being inspired" by various authors...the same ones he openly stole things from. Hell, half of the 2nd book is basically a very poorly rewritten version of Empire Strikes Back...throw in some Eddings, Dragonrider and Tolkienisms and voila, you have a book.

The huge difference between Jordan's Homage to Tolkien during the first part of tEotW and Paolini's garbage is that Jordan openly meant it to be an homage and it was very well done. It also had some originality to it (quite a bit to the overall story of the series) whereas Paolini's is what happens when a teenager merely combines all his favorite stories together.

It's awful...literally awful. It makes Twilight look well-written.

http://aydee.wordpress.com/2006/12/17/eragon/

Read this and get back to me on the "plagiarism" angle. He lifts whole freaking scenes from other books, not just ideas, names, plotlines, etc...which he also does on an astonishingly good level. Any self-respecting publisher should have laughed in his face but thankfully Mommy/Daddy owned a publishing company and thankfully they used those connections to publish it. The whole Knopf story is just a figleaf to that garbage anyway. You seriously believe that story is 100% and not apocryphal?

fdsaf3
08-22-2014, 04:29 PM
For one, it goes far beyond mimicking tropes with Paolini and he, himself, openly admitted "being inspired" by various authors...the same ones he openly stole things from. Hell, half of the 2nd book is basically a very poorly rewritten version of Empire Strikes Back...throw in some Eddings, Dragonrider and Tolkienisms and voila, you have a book.

The huge difference between Jordan's Homage to Tolkien during the first part of tEotW and Paolini's garbage is that Jordan openly meant it to be an homage and it was very well done. It also had some originality to it (quite a bit to the overall story of the series) whereas Paolini's is what happens when a teenager merely combines all his favorite stories together.

It seems to me that determining whether something is plagiarism depends on some sort of qualitative assessment of the quality of the work: RJ wrote good material, so it's not plagiarism; Paolini wrote bad material, so it is. That's really not how it works. It seems unfair to me that someone like Paolini can say he was influenced by something and then be ripped apart for stealing it when a famous author like RJ can do the same thing and it's fine. If the standard is utilization of the same tropes, RJ is as guilty as anyone else. I'm not saying this because I have an axe to grind against RJ. I'm simply trying to illustrate the selectiveness with which the criteria of what is and is not plagiarism is being applied to Paolini's work.



Read this and get back to me on the "plagiarism" angle. He lifts whole freaking scenes from other books, not just ideas, names, plotlines, etc...which he also does on an astonishingly good level. Any self-respecting publisher should have laughed in his face but thankfully Mommy/Daddy owned a publishing company and thankfully they used those connections to publish it. The whole Knopf story is just a figleaf to that garbage anyway. You seriously believe that story is 100% and not apocryphal?

I'm at work finishing up, but I will read this and write a response. Note that I am *not* writing in defense of Christopher Paolini, nor am I saying that Eragon is, by any measure, a good book. I'm simply making the point that discussion of him and his work jumped immediately to a level of discussion I think crosses a line. For me, the question of whether or not he plagiarized is moot.

Seeker
08-22-2014, 05:24 PM
When I was in kindergarten, I wrote a story. I still have it. It was written on that old, faded, light green paper with the three lines that help kids learn how to capitalize words. It was, almost word for word, the story The Time Machine by H.G. Wells. I had seen the movie apparently the day before and just wrote it down. My teacher wrote on the paper "Wow, amazing imagination! S+" (S+ = Satisfactory Plus = A+ from that time period) When I recently found that in a box of stuff my mom had saved over the years I WAS APALLED. APALLED. Not one adult caught the fact that I wrote down a famous novel plot.

I don't know, SBC. It's very likely that some of them recognized the story but didn't feel the need to tell a five-year-old that she had unwittingly plagiarized H. G. Wells.

I sincerely doubt you had plans of parlaying that story into a major motion picture deal.

Gilshalos Sedai
08-26-2014, 08:54 AM
It's a little strange to me how overtly some of you wear (and proudly, it seems) your badges of cynicism and negativity. To each their own, I guess, but I can't imagine how it's pleasurable to have such a mentality.

Are people here forgetting that Robert Jordan - the author whose work brought us all together - essentially recreated the Shire and the opening plot of the Lord of the Rings during the first hundred or so pages of Eye of the World?* I guess Robert Jordan is a plagiarist, no?

If you break down the vast majority of fantasy literature to barebones essentials, they all involve tropes like Paolini's work does. Do we say that everything involving tropes like the Hero's Journey is derivative and borderline plagiarism? Nope. It's not my personal cup of tea, but Eragon is, at least in my opinion, clearly a work which stands on its own feet. The only caveat I'll add is that I haven't read any of the other books in the series and I haven't read the first book in probably 10 years.

I'm not sure what the justification for the attitude being displayed in this discussion, but I, for one, find it extremely off-putting. I don't mean to start a pissing contest, but comments like this:



seem really off-base. As far as I can tell, it's either an unnecessary mention of a behavioral disorder he has no control over, or it's an offensive generalization which isn't true. Either way, it doesn't sit well with me.

It's honestly *not my intention to call anyone out. Have whatever opinions you want. My objection is in how those opinions are being voiced. It seems we're straying a bit over the line from criticizing the work to criticizing the person, and that isn't something I'm generally OK with.

All of this. Exactly this.

Criticize the skill of the work all you want. But leave the writer himself out of it.

And if there were actual plagiarism involved don't you think Lucas and the Tolkien estates, both so litigious-happy that you can't name a peripheral character Strider or Skywalker in any book EVER, they'd have sued the crap out of Knopf, the Paolinis and their descendants to the Nth degree?

He was 15. Armchair diagnoses of neurological disorders aside, that's still a hell of an accomplishment.

And you know I haven't touched the "professional editing" comments? Because it's irrelevant. Every book... every single book... that goes through a large publishing house is run through the ringer of professional editing, copy-editing, and yet another round of editing, whether its been self published before or not. My own (current) novel, which has already been through 6 rounds of editing and is awaiting my patience to renew for yet another round, will undoubtedly get yet another round or three once picked up by an agent and then a publisher. (As my first foray into a new genre, it sucks.)

So, the fact that Knopf polished the turd that was originally self-published, doesn't really mean all that much to me. Just because his parents ran a small press, doesn't mean they knew jack shit about editing. I do. I know quite a bit about editing.

And SBC, you were what... 5? You were able to summarize the plot of a fairly complex movie. You ask my 5 year old nephew what happened on the TMNT movie he just saw, his response would be "Ninja Turtles go Bam! And Then Bam! and They won!" accompanied by sound effects and action sequences. So yeah, you'd have gotten a high mark from me and exclamations about your creativity, too, as a teacher, because you observed things that most kids wouldn't have.

SauceyBlueConfetti
08-26-2014, 09:30 AM
I am quite familiar with Aspergers. QUITE familiar, just to be clear. The comment was meant only to say that this kid, to me, appears to have it and the TASK he set himself to "write" a book was just that. A step by step, BY THE BOOK, task. There is a tunnel vision, goal driven, VERY ritualistic focus by folks who suffer from this.

If you find that off-putting so be it. I really don't care. It is a first hand, real world observation that I am applying to what I see here. He isn't an author. He wrote down things he knew by following, step by step, a book he read. My problem isn't so much with him, this is how he functions...my problem is with the people who should have known better and instead PROFITED from it.

GonzoTheGreat
08-26-2014, 09:32 AM
Ah, so you're opposed to capitalism. Yes, that is something quite different, indeed.

SauceyBlueConfetti
08-26-2014, 09:34 AM
To be clearer...I guess I relate this more to the PLAGIARISM issue than anything else.

If the kid had sat down and copied, stroke by stroke, a Renoir painting and then had sold it as an original for millions, what would you say? I see this as no different, again, because I understand he would not have been PAINTING creatively, he would be replicating something just to replicate it.

Would you blame him? Or the art dealer? Or the uneducated collector who didn't recognize it as basically a forgery?

SauceyBlueConfetti
08-26-2014, 09:36 AM
THIS (http://aydee.wordpress.com/2006/12/17/eragon/)

is a really good piece on WHY Lucas likely didn't sue.


In part:

This is the explanation for George Lucas’ indifference, and the reason for the silence radiating from the Tolkien estate. There is nothing to be gained from calling Christopher Paolini on his crimes, save recognition. Lucas, especially, would only damage his grip on the teen fanbase that he and Paolini share; he stands to gain very little from claiming what is rightfully his.

This does not mean that there isn’t a crime; it only means that it’s a crime that would not be beneficial for George Lucas, Anne McCaffrey or David Eddings to cause a fuss over.

Gilshalos Sedai
08-26-2014, 10:14 AM
To be clearer...I guess I relate this more to the PLAGIARISM issue than anything else.

If the kid had sat down and copied, stroke by stroke, a Renoir painting and then had sold it as an original for millions, what would you say? I see this as no different, again, because I understand he would not have been PAINTING creatively, he would be replicating something just to replicate it.

Would you blame him? Or the art dealer? Or the uneducated collector who didn't recognize it as basically a forgery?

So your objection is that he was exploited?

That's an entirely different argument, I think that the one I was having with Dav, though, SBC.

Davian93
08-26-2014, 10:47 AM
So your objection is that he was exploited?

That's an entirely different argument, I think that the one I was having with Dav, though, SBC.

There is simply nothing original in his books...nothing. Its all scavenged from some other book or movie and only minimally changed before he used it...in the instances where he didn't lift whole scenes. Its one thing to put an homage in your books (like RJ did with the first part of tEotW) but you need to make it original, you need to acknowledge the source and you can't copy names, places, plots piece by piece like he did. There is nothing redeeming and a million things wrong with what he did and how it got published. A lot of failed authors and a lot of successful authors write this same crappy book. In his case, he got published. In all of theirs, they were thankfully rejected harshly by publishing houses when they tried to get published. Had this been his first effort and he had failed, maybe he would have gone back to the drawing board and gotten better. Maybe he would have gotten rejected 3-4 times like many good authors and improved himself each time until he was finally a decent writer.

Fortunately for him and unfortunately for us and every other writer out there that has been rejected, we were all subjected to his tripe of a novel/fantasy series.

I dont give a damn whether or not he was or is Aspergers or any other social issue, it doesnt matter to me. I simply think his book reads like the crappy writings of a 15 year old...that it was published and that he utterly steals from other writers pisses me off to no end. I feel the same way about Goodkind's ripoffs or even Terry Brooks LotR for Idiots series (the entire Shannara book series he's milked for nearly 40 years now). Its utter crap.

Gilshalos Sedai
08-26-2014, 10:57 AM
Fine, Dav. All I'm asking is that you attack the skill, not the writer.

I'd hate to find you ten years down the line calling MY character into question because I put damned comma in the wrong place when I finally do get published.

SauceyBlueConfetti
08-26-2014, 01:23 PM
oh come on Gil, that is hardly a comparable scenario.

I do have issues with the plagiarism, the way that refects on him, the publisher and editors. I also think they may just have done it on purpose, and yeah, that bugs me.

But ultimately, his writing isn't even average...it is horrible and CLEARLY plagiarized.

I am guessing from your comments (not just you, but a few others too) that you haven't READ the books. Give it a shot and then argue again.

Tomp
08-26-2014, 03:32 PM
Speaking of orignal Writing.
It seems that even Shakespeare had an editor (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvaUwagX_uU).

Seeker
08-26-2014, 04:57 PM
oh come on Gil, that is hardly a comparable scenario.

I do have issues with the plagiarism, the way that refects on him, the publisher and editors. I also think they may just have done it on purpose, and yeah, that bugs me.

But ultimately, his writing isn't even average...it is horrible and CLEARLY plagiarized.

I am guessing from your comments (not just you, but a few others too) that you haven't READ the books. Give it a shot and then argue again.

I have read the first book, and I found it to be remarkably bland. I didn't like it enough to try the second or third. I don't think there was any intentional plagiarism on Paolini's part. Rather this is the inevitable consequence of writing a book at such a young age.

You have to remember that he had been reading fantasy for maybe two or three years before writing that book. Everything was still new to him. Everything was still fresh. The main character learning that his greatest enemy was in fact a member of his immediate family still felt like a powerful plot twist.

That's because it is a powerful plot twist the first time we saw it in Empire.

When I was sixteen, I knew I wanted to write but I kept scrapping everything because whatever I came up with felt uninspired and unoriginal. That's because it was. It takes time and a lot of exposure to pop culture to get a sense of what is new and what's been done to death.

Yeah, Eragon isn't a very good book. It's not terrible. But it stands out as incredibly mediocre and bad in some places. I don't, however, think the kid intentionally plagiarized anything.

As to SBC's point that his parents should have stopped him or told him that his work was derivative, I think that's unrealistic. I'm the only sci-fi buff in my family. I could say to my father tomorrow, "Hey, dad, I came up with this idea for a book where people eat metal and gain different powers based on the metals they ingest" and he'd say "That's the most original thing I've ever heard!" He'd never know the difference.

I could tell my mom that I wanted the main character in my space opera novel to be captured by a race of cyborgs and "assimilated into their collective" and she'd think it was genius. They don't know.

Paolini's parents probably read it and thought "Wow! I can't believe my kid completed a coherent novel." And to be fair, he does deserve props for that. Do you know how hard that is? Any of you ever tried? Any of you tried at fifteen? I did. It's NOT easy.

So when they read it, they get an adventure story about a band of rebels taking down an evil empire and they think "Wow, that was a fun read." If they aren't science-fiction buffs, they're not going to remember the plot to Star Wars in such intricate detail.

Davian93
08-26-2014, 09:00 PM
The main character learning that his greatest enemy was in fact a member of his immediate family still felt like a powerful plot twist.

Yes, quite original...

http://cdn.citywirecontent.co.uk/images/2011/06/03/496561-System__Resources__Image-541689.jpg

Pretty much the most known scene in Sci-Fi history after all..event a freaking 15 year old should be aware of that. It does point to him having zero social interaction (not bashing him Gil, just theorizing) though due to the home schooling. Let's be real here...Star Wars was a cultural even that far transcended the hard-core sci-fi crowd. Its up there with knowing who Spock and Captain Kirk are. You dont need to like Sci-Fi/Fantasy to know them. It's far beyond that level of knowledge. The average person would know the reference.

As to SBC's point that his parents should have stopped him or told him that his work was derivative, I think that's unrealistic

To be fair, while most normies might not know Mistborn, I'd imagine they have a passing awareness of the LotR movies and Star Wars.

"Wow! I can't believe my kid completed a coherent novel."

To be fair, "coherent" is a pretty strong word for Eragon and Eldest (the only two books I've read of that "cycle" of his).

Uno
08-26-2014, 10:13 PM
Yes, but as someone who describes himself as increasingly older and grumpier, you're probably not part of Eragon's target audience, Davian.

Frenzy
08-27-2014, 01:32 AM
One could argue that the plot twist of learning your enemy was your father is older than dirt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oedipus_the_King).

Uno
08-27-2014, 01:59 AM
One could argue that the plot twist of learning your enemy was your father is older than dirt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oedipus_the_King).

They weren't really enemies, though. Oedipus just happened to kill some guy he met on the road. A brief quarrel between two complete strangers was the extent of their interaction.

Tomp
08-27-2014, 02:06 AM
Yes, but as someone who describes himself as increasingly older and grumpier, you're probably not part of Eragon's target audience, Davian.

Brandon talks about target audiences and the question of good and bad books in this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jEkdsTQIQ4). (maybe you've seen it already)
The 1st part of 6 or 7 parts.

GonzoTheGreat
08-27-2014, 03:48 AM
I'd hate to find you ten years down the line calling MY character into question because I put damned comma in the wrong place when I finally do get published.I would say that such criticism would be entirely apt, considering the fact that you already know you're gonna put that comma wrong, so it is entirely your decision not to rectify that before publishing the book.

They weren't really enemies, though. Oedipus just happened to kill some guy he met on the road. A brief quarrel between two complete strangers was the extent of their interaction.The good old days to which conservatives look back so fondly, when killing chance met strangers on the road was so normal that it was only worth mentioning when the stranger happened to be the father of the killer.

Davian93
08-27-2014, 08:45 AM
Yes, but as someone who describes himself as increasingly older and grumpier, you're probably not part of Eragon's target audience, Davian.

To be fair, I read them when they first came out...when I was far less grumpy and old.

Seeker
08-27-2014, 12:53 PM
Yes, quite original...

http://cdn.citywirecontent.co.uk/images/2011/06/03/496561-System__Resources__Image-541689.jpg

Pretty much the most known scene in Sci-Fi history after all..event a freaking 15 year old should be aware of that. It does point to him having zero social interaction (not bashing him Gil, just theorizing) though due to the home schooling. Let's be real here...Star Wars was a cultural even that far transcended the hard-core sci-fi crowd. Its up there with knowing who Spock and Captain Kirk are. You dont need to like Sci-Fi/Fantasy to know them. It's far beyond that level of knowledge. The average person would know the reference.



To be fair, while most normies might not know Mistborn, I'd imagine they have a passing awareness of the LotR movies and Star Wars.



To be fair, "coherent" is a pretty strong word for Eragon and Eldest (the only two books I've read of that "cycle" of his).


Again I say, the kid was 15. The hero's journey has the same tropes in every telling - one of those being the once great man who betrayed the light (Vader, Boromir, Ingtar) - but the difference is in their execution. A 15 year old isn't going to know how to analyze and execute tropes. That only comes with years of trial and error. Gil knows. Fdas3 knows. Not a lot of other people over the age of thirty know. At least not many people I've met. Most people analyze tropes based on the emotional reaction they have when they're exposed to the trope, which is how a fifteen year old would do it.

The Unreasoner
08-27-2014, 01:40 PM
I'm under thirty and know about tropes. Haven't read it, but I read Davians linked article (and the linked review from there), and I'm frankly surprised anyone is defending this prick. You say he wrote a coherent novel, and deserves respect for that. Except if I am understanding things properly, the only difference between Eragon (seriously?) and Faster than the Speed of Love is that the parents had the money to publish Eragon.

It almost sounds like it was written by some Fantasy Algorithm that scanned a dozen books for data.

Davian93
08-27-2014, 01:44 PM
It almost sounds like it was written by some Fantasy Algorithm that scanned a dozen books for data.

Seriously though, who the hell actually plariarizes David Eddings?!?

Seeker
08-27-2014, 02:33 PM
I'm under thirty and know about tropes. Haven't read it, but I read Davians linked article (and the linked review from there), and I'm frankly surprised anyone is defending this prick. You say he wrote a coherent novel, and deserves respect for that. Except if I am understanding things properly, the only difference between Eragon (seriously?) and Faster than the Speed of Love is that the parents had the money to publish Eragon.

It almost sounds like it was written by some Fantasy Algorithm that scanned a dozen books for data.

What I'm trying to tell you is that - so far as I can see - the kid did not understand anything beyond the rudiments of storytelling. I've reached this conclusion by reading his book and analyzing how it was structured. It is a coherent book in the sense that it has a beginning, middle and end and that the narrative unfolds in a clear, logical manner. I am not calling it a work of genius or a truly inspired novel or anything like that. Coherent just means that I understood what he was trying to convey. Don't twist the word to mean something that it doesn't.

Yes, simply being coherent is an accomplishment. Teach creative writing and grade the work of students who took the course because they thought it would be an easy A, and you'll very quickly learn how few people can do that. I worked for a private school about seven years ago, and that was one of my courses.

My point to you is that I don't think this kid set out to write Star Wars in Middle Earth. He ended up doing that due to a lack of understanding on how to take the basic story structure (young hero leaves home on an epic journey, learns new powers and brings down evil empire) and twist it into a new permutation.

Gilshalos Sedai
08-27-2014, 02:45 PM
Seriously though, who the hell actually plariarizes David Eddings?!?
Sigh. The only thing I'm defending is a 15 year old sitting down and writing a damned novel. It takes a great deal of hard work, dedication and perseverance to write a damned novel. Of ANY quality.

I'm not claiming he needs a ticker-tape parade, that his books deserve the best-seller status and acclaim they've received (they don't -- The Twilight "Saga"'s better written - and I consider that a date-rape/spousal-abuse manual). But for a 15 year old to have to mental fortitude to sit down and write a novel of any quality, yes. It's a little impressive. Considering at that age, I started and stopped my first novel a hundred times because I lacked the confidence and ego to believe in myself to leave the words on the page that I put there. So, yeah. In my opinion, skill and plot and originality aside, it's a little impressive.

No, I don't think he should have made it to the NYT, or gotten a movie deal, etc. But that's not what I said, now was it?

Seeker
08-27-2014, 02:48 PM
Sigh. The only thing I'm defending is a 15 year old sitting down and writing a damned novel. It takes a great deal of hard work, dedication and perseverance to write a damned novel. Of ANY quality.

I'm not claiming he needs a ticker-tape parade, that his books deserve the best-seller status and acclaim they've received (they don't -- The Twilight "Saga"'s better written - and I consider that a date-rape/spousal-abuse manual). But for a 15 year old to have to mental fortitude to sit down and write a novel of any quality, yes. It's a little impressive. Considering at that age, I started and stopped my first novel a hundred times because I lacked the confidence and ego to believe in myself to leave the words on the page that I put there. So, yeah. In my opinion, skill and plot and originality aside, it's a little impressive.

No, I don't think he should have made it to the NYT, or gotten a movie deal, etc. But that's not what I said, now was it?

No, it most certainly isn't. Agree 100%

The Unreasoner
08-27-2014, 02:53 PM
I didn't try to twist anything. I am just not as impressed by narrative cohesiveness as you seem to be. Are you arguing that we should pity the kid? There is a difference between a few slackers looking for an easy A and failing to provide cohesion (and who knows how much effort they really put in it) and this guy. Professional novelists are a self selected group, and can and should be held to different standards.

As for his age: how long was he fifteen? Isn't there a steaming pile of his work? Did the writing, narrative, or ingeneuity improve as he got older? If he wrote it all when he was fifteen, I might tip my hat in his direction. You would have to give him credit for that rate of production.

Seeker
08-27-2014, 03:03 PM
I didn't try to twist anything. I am just not as impressed by narrative cohesiveness as you seem to be. Are you arguing that we should pity the kid? There is a difference between a few slackers looking for an easy A and failing to provide cohesion (and who knows how much effort they really put in it) and this guy. Professional novelists are a self selected group, and can and should be held to different standards.

I'm saying the same thing Gil said. It's impressive that a kid that young had the perseverance to sit down and write a book. That he stuck with it and followed it through to the end, and that the end-product was a coherent story.

Consider that if Star Wars and LoTR had never existed, Inheritance would have received much more praise for its imaginative world and narrative. There is nothing wrong with the story in and of itself. It's only a failure in the context of those other works. And rightly so. Whether he intended to or not, he did borrow heavily from other writers.

As for his age: how long was he fifteen? Isn't there a steaming pile of his work? Did the writing, narrative, or ingeneuity improve as he got older? If he wrote it all when he was fifteen, I might tip my hat in his direction. You would have to give him credit for that rate of production.

I don't know. I haven't read subsequent volumes. Probably not.

I'm not praising the quality of his work. I'm praising the dedication and stamina required to do it.

Seeker
08-27-2014, 03:11 PM
Professional novelists are a self selected group, and can and should be held to different standards.

Also, if that's true, then anyone who hasn't completed a novel ought to shut his or her mouth.

If we're of a different class, held to a different standard, then the only people who can truly assess our ability are our peers.

Gilshalos Sedai
08-27-2014, 03:14 PM
Also, if that's true, than anyone who hasn't completed a novel ought to shut his or her mouth.

If we're of a different class, held to a different standard, then the only people who can truly assess our ability are our peers.

:D

Or maybe parents of 15 year-olds...

The Unreasoner
08-27-2014, 03:46 PM
I still think you give him too much credit. He was an obsessive, home-schooled teenager living in Montana before the internet. What else was he going to do? In other words, his cooing parents supplied him an ego, which was bolstered by him not having peers to test his mind against, and he had all of the time in the world to indulge his hobby of choice. You don't applaud the last domino for having the perserverence to fall as Fate intended.

The Unreasoner
08-27-2014, 03:52 PM
Also, if that's true, then anyone who hasn't completed a novel ought to shut his or her mouth.

If we're of a different class, held to a different standard, then the only people who can truly assess our ability are our peers.

This is ridiculous. Do you also believe that the only people who can criticize politicians are people who have been elected to a public office themselves? Certain choices invite public judgment. This kid wrote Eragon then went on a tour talking about his creative process.

Seeker
08-27-2014, 03:55 PM
I still think you give him too much credit. He was an obsessive, home-schooled teenager living in Montana before the internet. What else was he going to do? In other words, his cooing parents supplied him an ego, which was bolstered by him not having peers to test his mind against, and he had all of the time in the world to indulge his hobby of choice. You don't applaud the last domino for having the perserverence to fall as Fate intended.

I can't speak to any of that. I know nothing of his background. And neither do you, by the way. Knowing that he was home-schooled tells you very little about his home life.

The only thing I can judge is the quality of his book. It's a fairly bland, generic fantasy story that is executed with mediocre skill. You might note that none of this is praise. That I don't think it's the worst thing ever written is hardly a glowing recommendation.

Have you completed a novel, Unreasoner? Have you tried? How far did you get? It's a hard task. For someone's first attempt to be even mediocre is still an accomplishment.

Gilshalos Sedai
08-27-2014, 04:01 PM
This is ridiculous. Do you also believe that the only people who can criticize politicians are people who have been elected to a public office themselves? Certain choices invite public judgment. This kid wrote Eragon than went on a tour talking about his creative process.

Actually, that's not what we were saying. We were saying that's what you were saying. Since, as professional novelists, we're part of a self-selected group. Professional novelists are a self selected group, and can and should be held to different standards. And held to different standards.

The Unreasoner
08-27-2014, 04:01 PM
Have you completed a novel, Unreasoner?

Yes. And when I was told it sucked, I very decently put it through ccleaners mutiple pass shredder.

And I can make inferences about him and his background without having been there. As you and I did regarding GRRM.

The Unreasoner
08-27-2014, 04:09 PM
Actually, that's not what we were saying. We were saying that's what you were saying. Since, as professional novelists, we're part of a self-selected group.
That was never what I was saying. Seeker was the one using the "walk in another's shoes" argument to shut down criticism of this hack. I say he invited criticism by claiming to be a novelist instead of, say, a fan fiction author.
And held to different standards.
What?

Nazbaque
08-27-2014, 04:12 PM
There is nothing wrong with the story in and of itself. It's only a failure in the context of those other works. And rightly so. Whether he intended to or not, he did borrow heavily from other writers.

While I mostly agree with what you and Gil have said so far, I must disagree with this point as the last book of the cycle is one big deus ex machina. I doubt he intentionally borrowed anything from anywhere or was aware of tropes and cliches of general story telling and fantasy, but even so the way the story was written was clumsy in many places and much more so in the two latter books. Towards the end the story is downright forced as if he had painted himself to a corner.

EDIT: Wow you posted a lot while I was writing that.

The Unreasoner
08-27-2014, 04:20 PM
Consider that if Star Wars and LoTR had never existed, Inheritance would have received much more praise for its imaginative world and narrative.
Except they do exist. And if they didn't, neither would this "cycle".

Nothing exists in a vacuum, and nothingshould be judged as if it did.

Seeker
08-27-2014, 04:28 PM
This is ridiculous. Do you also believe that the only people who can criticize politicians are people who have been elected to a public office themselves? Certain choices invite public judgment. This kid wrote Eragon then went on a tour talking about his creative process.

No, it isn't.

And here's why.

You don't have the expertise to determine what standards a novel should be held to. The situation is more akin to saying that only someone with the right engineering background can determine whether a bridge is up to code.

I'm willing to broaden the scope to "anyone in the industry" (editors, ghost writers, etc). But the fact remains that without the experience you simply don't know what you're talking about.

If the work of a novelist must be held to a different standard, then you are not qualified to set that standard. What's more, you would be setting a standard to which you yourself would never have to aspire. So you would have no baseline to determine whether or not the goals you set are actually achievable.

This is why I refute a lot of the Sanderson criticisms that crop up every now and then. Because many of them are requests for things that were simply not feasible given the scope of the project and the groundwork laid out by his predecessor.

To give you a perfect example, one of my Facebook friends said the following. "I will never respect a writer who ends a sentence in a preposition."

I pointed out to him that there is no prohibition against ending sentences with prepositions in English grammar. I linked him to articles and videos by professional editors who explain that the "don't end sentences with prepositions" rule was a feature of latin grammar that certain linguists decided ought to be applied to English in the 17th century, that it does not reflect the way people actually speak.

I pointed out that narrative prose ought to feel natural and that people both think and speak in sentences that end with prepositions. I added that following this rule in every possible case will make your prose sound like it was written by Yoda. "Where are you from?" becomes "From where are you?" and so forth.

Despite this, my friend insisted that he would never respect an author who ended sentences with prepositions (even though they all do it) Why? Because he's never attempted the task himself and therefore he doesn't know the limitations of language. He has never developed an intuitive feel for when it is necessary to bend or break a rule. He has never worked with professional editors.

(And yes. I have. On three separate occasions.)

Would it surprise anyone to learn that much of the "literary criticism" on this site runs directly contrary the advice offered by those editors. That if I were to take the advice of various Theorylanders, I would be deliberately ignoring my editor's feedback?

Having a personal taste in books is not the same as having expertise on the subject of how books get written.

Want to know the universal advice that every single editor I've ever worked with has offered (before they even looked at my work, by the way. I'm talking about stuff they post on their websites.)

"Keep it short and to the point."

"Write the scene. Reread it, cut half the description."

"Avoid flowery language. You're here to keep your audience entertained by the story, not to impress them with the lyrical beauty of your writing style."

"Nouns and verbs. Remove adjectives and adverbs wherever possible."

"Never let the story get bogged down. The narrative should be constantly moving forward."

"You are an entertainer first. An artist second."

"Something should always be happening. Never write a scene about nothing. You will lose your audience."

That last one stands out in my mind because I remember last year when someone - I think it was Dom but don't quote me on it - said something to the effect of "It's like Brandon insists on having something happen in his scenes. RJ would have a commander on horseback thinking about some stuff. Then he'd describe some mountains in the distance. Then think about some more stuff. And that would be the end of the scene. Brandon has him go and do things. Meet with the troops, delegate tasks, etc."

Right. That's true. Because Brandon was taught - as the rest of us have been - that you want your characters to be active. Not passive. Whoever said that wanted a scene with minimal action and lots of description. Most editors will insist on a scene with lots of action and minimal description. (By action I don't mean violence but "stuff happening")

So whose advice should we novelists follow? The advice of professional editors or the advice of theorylanders who - for the most part - do not write fiction? Because I guarantee you that they are not one and the same.

Nazbaque
08-27-2014, 04:37 PM
Except they do exist. And if they didn't, neither would this "cycle".

Now this you do not know for certain. You have little proof for claiming he deliberately borrowed from these stories.

More over Lucas is hardly the greatest gift to coherent story telling and even though Tolkien is, he too was influenced by previous myths and legends such as the Nibelungenlied and the Kalevala. So unless you think the only original artist in history is the caveman who drew the first stick figure, you should relax your views a little.

Nazbaque
08-27-2014, 04:55 PM
Want to know the universal advice that every single editor I've ever worked with has offered (before they even looked at my work, by the way. I'm talking about stuff they post on their websites.)

"Keep it short and to the point."

"Write the scene. Reread it, cut half the description."

"Avoid flowery language. You're here to keep your audience entertained by the story, not to impress them with the lyrical beauty of your writing style."

"Nouns and verbs. Remove adjectives and adverbs wherever possible."

"Never let the story get bogged down. The narrative should be constantly moving forward."

"You are an entertainer first. An artist second."

"Something should always be happening. Never write a scene about nothing. You will lose your audience."

Okay Seeker I've agreed with you more than Unreasoner in this debate but this litany gives me the thought: "Wow! No wonder so many books suck."

I want to read flowery language. I want to know what the characters feel and think while they act. I want to know about the scenery. I want anchors for my imagination. I want to enjoy not be entertained.

The Unreasoner
08-27-2014, 05:51 PM
For the record, I haven't read the books. So I could be way off base. But, if I am reading the link Dav posted correctly, this kid violated almost every one of the rules you posted, Seeker.

And I still think you're wrong on the issue of standing. Sometimes you don't need a whole lot of experience to know a bridge isn't up to code. I think what's really happening here is empathy from shared experience, rather than acceptance from some acquired wisdom.

This kid goes around talking about his creative process, and portrays himself as some kind of expert craftsman of language. Im calling bullshit.

Maybe if he just published the thing and then shut his mouth, I would be more inclined to your point of view. But he didn't.

Davian93
08-27-2014, 08:25 PM
You don't have the expertise to determine what standards a novel should be held to. The situation is more akin to saying that only someone with the right engineering background can determine whether a bridge is up to code

That's possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard...no, non-novel writers can judge whether something is good or not. Just like movie viewers can say whether a movie is good or not. You dont have to be a director or producer to say that. Its stupid (and quite a bit arrogant on your part) to suggest otherwise.

The engineer/bridge comparison is just silly.

Uno
08-27-2014, 08:57 PM
That's possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard...no, non-novel writers can judge whether something is good or not. Just like movie viewers can say whether a movie is good or not. You dont have to be a director or producer to say that. Its stupid (and quite a bit arrogant on your part) to suggest otherwise.

The engineer/bridge comparison is just silly.

No, no. If you don't do something professionally, you can't judge the quality of the product. Thus only cooks can tell if food is good, tailors if clothes are well-made, gardeners if a lawn is well-groomed, brewers if a beer is enjoyable ...

Davian93
08-27-2014, 09:06 PM
No, no. If you don't do something professionally, you can't judge the quality of the product. Thus only cooks can tell if food is good, tailors if clothes are well-made, gardeners if a lawn is well-groomed, brewers if a beer is enjoyable ...

Exactly...quite the ridiculous standard for judging.

Kimon
08-27-2014, 11:05 PM
They weren't really enemies, though. Oedipus just happened to kill some guy he met on the road. A brief quarrel between two complete strangers was the extent of their interaction.

I'm thinking that Laius stapling his infant son to a rock on top of a mountain in hopes of having him die of exposure (that was his creative way of trying to avoid kinslaying - let the elements/gods kill him, how could that go wrong...) so as to avoid an oracle saying that the boy would grow up and kill him, and then bang his mom, kind of qualifies them as enemies.

Uno
08-28-2014, 01:44 AM
I'm thinking that Laius stapling his infant son to a rock on top of a mountain in hopes of having him die of exposure (that was his creative way of trying to avoid kinslaying - let the elements/gods kill him, how could that go wrong...) so as to avoid an oracle saying that the boy would grow up and kill him, and then bang his mom, kind of qualifies them as enemies.

I don't know that an ancient audience would think of it that way. Exposure of unwanted infants was hardly that uncommon in ancient Greece, and the adult Oedipus and Laius stood in no personal or political enmity to each other when they met. As I recall, Oedipus, in fact, had no inkling whatsoever that he was the killer of the old king. Part of the tragedy comes from the fact that Oedipus had done nothing wrong that he knew of. He just chanced to kill some guy, which could happen to the very best. If Oedipus had deliberately targeted the king because they were enemies, and then discovered that they were kin, that would be the same as the Luke-Vader narrative (except that Luke stopped short of incest and merely made out with his sister a lot), but that's not the story.

Uno
08-28-2014, 01:56 AM
Except they do exist. And if they didn't, neither would this "cycle".

Nothing exists in a vacuum, and nothingshould be judged as if it did.

Well, the entire fantasy genre is rife with cliches, as is the juvenile story market in general. All stories about crime-solving kids are probably more or less modeled on the Hardy Boys, but I don't know that I'd call them all plagiarized. The point is that the bar tends to be set pretty low when it comes to originality in that venue.

yks 6nnetu hing
08-28-2014, 02:14 AM
You don't have the expertise to determine what standards a novel should be held to. The situation is more akin to saying that only someone with the right engineering background can determine whether a bridge is up to code
That's possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard...no, non-novel writers can judge whether something is good or not. Just like movie viewers can say whether a movie is good or not. You dont have to be a director or producer to say that. Its stupid (and quite a bit arrogant on your part) to suggest otherwise.

The engineer/bridge comparison is just silly.

as someone who has no engineering education whatsoever but has worked on an engineering project which we're now about to build... that is utter nonsense.

There are indeed aspects only an engineer can assess, such as the calculated loads on the structures, any needed groundwork etc. However, once the design is made, any thinking person can VERY EASILY just check the plan against what was built. Seriously, if it's rusting, it obviously wasn't painted well. if it's bent, either the steel quality was bad or someone made a mistake in a calculation or some aspect of the soil conditions wasn't as predicted or someone cut a corner when laying the groundwork... But the actual cause is irrelevant because the fricking bridge is crooked when it's not supposed to be. That being said, bridges have been made and continue to be made with no engineering at all. Sometimes it's by someone with a sound logical mind or with years and years of practice on the field (lessons learned from previous failures) and the bridge actually holds up quite well.

That the bridge is there doesn't mean that it's a good bridge, it just means that the bridge is there (yay for whoever built it and it fulfils the function of crossing whatever it is you want to cross).

If we compare bridges to books, Tolkien's works are a bit like the Tower Bridge: old, solid, well constructed and pretty but not really suited for modern needs any more.
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01400/Tower-Bridge_1400597c.jpg

Gabriel Garcia Marquez' books are like a twisty bridge: well made and quirky but suitable for a rather narrow section of the population, and even for that section they're not exactly easy to use
http://uploads.neatorama.com/images/gallery/81/0/81/The-Melkweb-Bridge_0-l.jpg

Paolini's is a rope suspension bridge - it'll do the trick and you'll probably get to the other side but you REALLY don't want to risk your (mental) health getting on it.
http://planetoddity.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/dangerous-rope-bridge-1.jpg?5e9c63

The Unreasoner
08-28-2014, 02:45 AM
http://www.technologystudent.com/images/tacoma2.jpg
Sometimes it is true that only God and engineers can judge a bridge. Any mere mortal who sees a problem here has clearly risen above himself.

GonzoTheGreat
08-28-2014, 03:30 AM
No, no. If you don't do something professionally, you can't judge the quality of the product. Thus only cooks can tell if food is good, tailors if clothes are well-made, gardeners if a lawn is well-groomed, brewers if a beer is enjoyable ...
And only Miley Cyrus and Britney Spears can determine whether they are good singers, you lot shouldn't voice any opinions on that. :p

It took quite a while before most of you figured this out, didn't it?

When it comes to writing, I've read that "those who can write, write, those who find out they can't become critics". Thus, by definition, anyone who criticizes your work is qualified to do so.

The Unreasoner
08-28-2014, 04:45 AM
The trouble is, people who can't write sometimes still do. Kevin Anderson, Dan Brown, Stephanie Meyer. And sonehow conflate commercial success with critical.

I don't know why people are framing this as standing up for a 15 year old kid. He got older, and according to Naz, the writing got worse. Which means he failed to learn from earlier criticism, lending weight to the autism/computer program theory.

Or he thought himself above it, making him a shitty person.

Davian93
08-28-2014, 07:46 AM
(except that Luke stopped short of incest and merely made out with his sister a lot), but that's not the story.

Sure they did...sure they did.:rolleyes: They were both late teens/early 20s (peak sexual drive years) in a series of dangerous, life-threatening situations for a 3 year period before she realized she actually liked Han more. I'm sure it stopped at just kissing. Luckily for us, it was a PG movie so we didnt have to see the incest at its full level on-screen.

as someone who has no engineering education whatsoever but has worked on an engineering project which we're now about to build... that is utter nonsense.


Umm, I agree. That's why comparing being a literary critic to a structural engineer is silly. There is a huge world of difference between the two. You dont need years of schooling and expertise to judge writing...you do need it for telling me whether or not a bridge is structurally sound.

Also, to be fair, that rope bridge likely contains some pretty ingenious engineering overall...despite its rickety appearance. The rope bridges the Inca built were engineering marvels when you consider their overall technology level.


And only Miley Cyrus and Britney Spears can determine whether they are good singers, you lot shouldn't voice any opinions on that

Another great example of the fallacy...I can't sing a lick or even play an instrument but I do have a good enough ear to recognize chords and keys and I can immediately hear if something is out of key when a person is singing. Just like I can tell when someone hits the wrong note on a piano or with an instrument...even if its just barely off.

Davian93
08-28-2014, 07:50 AM
He got older, and according to Naz, the writing got worse.

What motivation is there to improve? He's already a NY Times Bestseller making millions and he's likely surrounded by people telling him he's the best thing ever.

There was and likely is very little negative feedback coming at him. Same issue someone like GRRM or even RJ in the later books is having. (or Stephen King the past 25 years or George Lucas during the prequels). Nobody is standing up to them saying their ideas suck or that their work needs editing. Thus we get bloated, unwieldy novels like Dance With Dragons or Crossroads of Twilight and characters like Jar Jar.

Given the immediate success he had on those first couple books, I'm not surprised that the final two went even more off the deep end into suckiness.

Gilshalos Sedai
08-28-2014, 08:07 AM
Oh, for... you know what? Forget it. I forgot why I stopped trying to discuss writing here.

Yes, you, the average reader can judge good or bad writing. Everyone's entitled to their opinion and taste.

Mine and Seeker's point has only been until you've tried to write a book as a 15 year old (which I did), perhaps stones shouldn't be thrown. It's still an accomplishment. And one that allows me (not anyone else, apparently) to rank him in respect slightly higher than say, Meyers.

And frankly, I think Dav's right (because I'm not going to touch an armchair quarterback diagnoses of any disorder whatsoever). Paolini decided that since he hit the best-seller list as a teenager, he was already a genius and no one could tell him how to write. EVER. He was a master.

And on that note, I'm done.

Davian93
08-28-2014, 08:15 AM
I think Dav's right

See how easy that was?:)


Seriously though, I do get what you're saying about it being impressive for a 15 year old to write any novel, even a crappy novel.

I just think he would have been far better served to not get it published in the long-run.

GonzoTheGreat
08-28-2014, 08:40 AM
I just think he would have been far better served to not get it published in the long-run.
From the point of view of him becoming an actually good writer, perhaps. Or perhaps not, I dunno whether he actually has the talent.
But from the perspective of him earning oodles of money easily, I think that publishing was a better choice than not publishing.

So it comes down to a matter of priorities, and I'm not sure your priority in this is the same as Paolini's.

Gilshalos Sedai
08-28-2014, 08:43 AM
See how easy that was?:)


Seriously though, I do get what you're saying about it being impressive for a 15 year old to write any novel, even a crappy novel.

I just think he would have been far better served to not get it published in the long-run.

:p

yks 6nnetu hing
08-28-2014, 09:07 AM
From the point of view of him becoming an actually good writer, perhaps. Or perhaps not, I dunno whether he actually has the talent.
But from the perspective of him earning oodles of money easily, I think that publishing was a better choice than not publishing.

So it comes down to a matter of priorities, and I'm not sure your priority in this is the same as Paolini's.

to be fair, building a bad bridge that (somehow) still functions as one is much harder than you'd think. I definitely wouldn't call it "easy".

Likewise with books - actually finishing one that is recognizably a narrative is most definitely not easy.

http://th05.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2010/201/7/c/my_math_book_by_CrazyBadB0y.jpg

art is different. simply writing "art" on something *can* be art, but it usually isn't.

GonzoTheGreat
08-28-2014, 09:15 AM
It may be a bit cynical, but I've often thought that the main part of art is merchandising: if you can manage to sell a floor covered in peanut butter as art then it is art, if you can't then you have a horrible clean up job to do.

yks 6nnetu hing
08-28-2014, 09:18 AM
It may be a bit cynical, but I've often thought that the main part of art is merchandising: if you can manage to sell a floor covered in peanut butter as art then it is art, if you can't then you have a horrible clean up job to do.

good point. same with books. unfortunately.

SauceyBlueConfetti
08-28-2014, 01:34 PM
(because I'm not going to touch an armchair quarterback diagnoses of any disorder whatsoever). .


If you have a sibling or parent or other close relative who suffer from a specific disease or affliction I hope you are not dismissed in this way repeatedly when you can clearly recognize symptomatic behavior. Just sayin. Cuz, ya know, it is starting to piss me off. Because ya know having an opinion is invalid unless you have first hand experience with the situation. Right? OR is that only with writing?

Kimon
08-28-2014, 03:42 PM
I don't know that an ancient audience would think of it that way. Exposure of unwanted infants was hardly that uncommon in ancient Greece, and the adult Oedipus and Laius stood in no personal or political enmity to each other when they met. As I recall, Oedipus, in fact, had no inkling whatsoever that he was the killer of the old king. Part of the tragedy comes from the fact that Oedipus had done nothing wrong that he knew of. He just chanced to kill some guy, which could happen to the very best. If Oedipus had deliberately targeted the king because they were enemies, and then discovered that they were kin, that would be the same as the Luke-Vader narrative (except that Luke stopped short of incest and merely made out with his sister a lot), but that's not the story.

Oedipus did not know that Laius was his father or that Jocasta was his mother at the time of either meeting, but he did know about the prophecy. In trying to avoid fulfilling it he became a victim of fate. The problem was that he believed that the king and queen of Corinth, his foster-parents, were his mother and father. He fled Corinth hoping to avoid fate, but he met a stranger on the road (Laius), they got into an argument, and he killed the stranger. Neither recognized the other, but that doesn't eliminate the fact that a pre-existing enmity, even if one-sided, had set the two of them both on the paths to that altercation. It does however, explain how Oedipus was guiltless of pre-meditation concerning both crimes (kinslaughter and incest). Unfortunately a lack of pre-meditation didn't change the fact that once aware, he was still left staring (albeit briefly) at this mom/wife, his sons/brothers, and his daughters/sisters...

As for the motif and frequency of exposure in antiquity, it was not completely uncommon, and while father's (and grandfather's) technically had that right, keep in mind that the following are the examples in mythology in which it occurred:

Laius - Oedipus
Acrisius - Perseus
Amulius - Romulus and Remus

All four exposed infants returned to kill their exposer...

Uno
08-28-2014, 07:01 PM
Laius - Oedipus
Acrisius - Perseus
Amulius - Romulus and Remus

All four exposed infants returned to kill their exposer...

That's an interesting observation, and this may betray a certain discomfort with the legitimacy, or at least moral rectitude, of infant exposure. Of course, all these children were royalty, and killing a royal child may have been different from killing a common one.

Kimon
08-28-2014, 09:47 PM
That's an interesting observation, and this may betray a certain discomfort with the legitimacy, or at least moral rectitude, of infant exposure. Of course, all these children were royalty, and killing a royal child may have been different from killing a common one.

All three (Laius, Acrisius, and Amulius) are also clearly painted as villains, and none of their deaths are treated as unjustified, even Laius'. Oedipus really seems to have invoked his bad luck more for the incest than the kinslaughter. The implication seems to be that kinslaying (even if attempted indirectly) is heavily frowned upon by the gods and can only be justified in extreme instances - such as Orestes and Electra murdering their mother and uncle to avenge their father, or Romulus and Remus murdering their uncle to avenge their mother. Of course it didn't hurt that two of those I mentioned also happened to be not only royal, but also the children of gods. Zeus and Mars doubtless would be more upset at their own sons being exposed than if it was just some random kid.

yks 6nnetu hing
08-29-2014, 01:48 AM
That's an interesting observation, and this may betray a certain discomfort with the legitimacy, or at least moral rectitude, of infant exposure. Of course, all these children were royalty, and killing a royal child may have been different from killing a common one.

The Spartans were well known for their... eh... Spartan laws. Any child that was born "deformed" (and sometimes this definition included simply being a girl) was left exposed, sometimes even if the child's family would want to keep him/her.

On the other hand, Sparta was the only Greek city state where women could legally inherit and own property and run their own businesses.

disclaimer: this is something I remember from some article or another, I never studied Ancient History extensively. Modern History is more my thing.

GonzoTheGreat
08-29-2014, 04:00 AM
As for the motif and frequency of exposure in antiquity, it was not completely uncommon, and while father's (and grandfather's) technically had that right, keep in mind that the following are the examples in mythology in which it occurred:

Laius - Oedipus
Acrisius - Perseus
Amulius - Romulus and Remus

All four exposed infants returned to kill their exposer...Mind you, there may be a bit of a selection effect here. If the kids had died before their third sunrise, then there isn't much reason to think they would have made it into mythology in the first place. And neither would they have been very noticeable if they had been adopted by swineherds and lived to take up that profession until the end of their days.

It is only the fact that they did something worth the attention of the gossip columns (which, when you get right down to it, those myths are) that their story were passed on to us.

Gilshalos Sedai
08-29-2014, 09:21 AM
If you have a sibling or parent or other close relative who suffer from a specific disease or affliction I hope you are not dismissed in this way repeatedly when you can clearly recognize symptomatic behavior. Just sayin. Cuz, ya know, it is starting to piss me off. Because ya know having an opinion is invalid unless you have first hand experience with the situation. Right? OR is that only with writing?

I have no real life experience with it. Hence my not wanting to spout off about something I know nothing about. I haven't met the man, I haven't spoken to him, I haven't read/watched/listened to any interviews with him. Any guess I made as to any neurological disorder he may or may not have would be just that, a guess. If you think that's what he has, SBC, that's fine. I'm not going to speculate. I have no data one way or another and I refuse to speculate about a real person's mental health on the internet without sufficient schooling on the subject. (I'll speculate about a character's till the cows come home.)

I'm not a neurologist. I'm not a psychologist. I'm not a psychiatrist. I AM a writer. I have a degree IN WRITING. So, yes, I will express my opinions about writing. I try to limit my spouting off to things I have real world experience in and things I've researched, after all.

If Ivhon were to meet the guy and come on here and tell me definitively, that yes, he has such and such disorder... then maybe. But until then, or until Paolini himself admits to such a disorder, it's all just speculation.

I'm not being dismissive. I have no data. And frankly, for my argument, I don't think it matters. He still deserves props for completing a novel at the age of 15. Even moreso if he has a neurological disorder. I don't know if he was exploited, or if his parents intend to make sure his royalties go toward his future care. I have no data. And neither, really, do you.

So, don't attack me for being insensitive. Refusing to address your point is not insensitivity in this instance. It wasn't relevant to my point as I saw it and like I pointed out, it's a different argument. I don't have enough data to determine whether Paolini has a disorder or not. And I refuse to speculate or, as I said, armchair diagnose, as I have neither the schooling, nor the real world experience with such disorders.

Kimon
08-29-2014, 03:19 PM
The Spartans were well known for their... eh... Spartan laws. Any child that was born "deformed" (and sometimes this definition included simply being a girl) was left exposed, sometimes even if the child's family would want to keep him/her.

On the other hand, Sparta was the only Greek city state where women could legally inherit and own property and run their own businesses.

disclaimer: this is something I remember from some article or another, I never studied Ancient History extensively. Modern History is more my thing.

Spartan women also were unique in the Greek world in a number of other respects - they could divorce their husbands; they were encouraged to practice infidelity if their husbands were considered too old or unfit to produce strong children; they were encouraged to exercise alongside Spartan men (again with the belief that fit women produced fit children). It's a stark contrast to the far more cloistered role of women (or at least of aristocratic women) elsewhere in Ancient Greece, especially at Athens.

Plutarch included this anecdote/explanation in his Life of Lycurgus:

Plutarch quotes Queen Gorgo as follows: "When asked by a woman from Attica, 'Why are you Spartan women the only ones who can rule men?', she said: 'Because we are also the only ones who give birth to men.'" Another version has this as, "...some foreign lady, as it would seem, told her that the women of Lacedaemon were the only women in the world who could rule men; 'With good reason,' she said, 'for we are the only women who bring forth men.'" (Plutarch's Lives: Lycurgus)

Gilshalos Sedai
08-29-2014, 03:47 PM
Of course, I could really just not understand what you're getting at, SBC.

SauceyBlueConfetti
09-03-2014, 10:15 AM
To give you a perfect example, one of my Facebook friends said the following. "I will never respect a writer who ends a sentence in a preposition."

I pointed out to him that there is no prohibition against ending sentences with prepositions in English grammar. I linked him to articles and videos by professional editors who explain that the "don't end sentences with prepositions" rule was a feature of latin grammar that certain linguists decided ought to be applied to English in the 17th century, that it does not reflect the way people actually speak.

I pointed out that narrative prose ought to feel natural and that people both think and speak in sentences that end with prepositions. I added that following this rule in every possible case will make your prose sound like it was written by Yoda. "Where are you from?" becomes "From where are you?" and so forth.

Despite this, my friend insisted that he would never respect an author who ended sentences with prepositions (even though they all do it) Why? Because he's never attempted the task himself and therefore he doesn't know the limitations of language. He has never developed an intuitive feel for when it is necessary to bend or break a rule. He has never worked with professional editors.

(And yes. I have. On three separate occasions.)

Uhhh. This is wrong. Unless you had a separate conversation almost identical to a post on MY PAGE.

I posted a note that I was not liking a new book, and gave up after a sentence ended in a preposition. You began to argue with MY friend about this. After, if you notice, I already had said maybe the preposition was intentional. And I just didn't like the overall writing. Your entire comment is basically...wrong.

And, ahem, he was actually quite nice to you considering...
he is a published journalist in a number of regional & international magazines, as well as having worked as a book editor and publisher. Which he did not flaunt in your face, nor did he put you down. As you are now doing to him, completely inaccurately. COMPLETELY INACCURATELY.

So....yeah, your story above is so way off it isn't funny.



The actual information, to refresh your memory:

My FB Post:
I just read three pages into a new book. So far it was not doing much for my gut reaction to the new-to-me author. And then ::insert scary music:: a sentence ended with a preposition. I have neither the time nor the inclination to give poor writers a second chance. Frowny face time. Moving on to the next on my list.





LikeLike · · Share


Your response: Oh Saucy, if I had given up on writers who didn't impress me in the first three pages, I'd have missed out on Mistborn, the Dresden Files, the Demon Cycle, the Storm light Archive, the Dragon Bone Chair. Mythago Wood and yes even WoT. When you're picky like me, you tend to give up too quickly. I make it a point to read the first ten chapters.

May 5 at 2:03am · Like
..


Another TL: I usually try to give it at least three chapters..

Which book was it?

May 5 at 3:05am · Edited · Like

Another TL: I'd vote for a poor editor. But, I agree. Who has time to waste when your gut is saying meh too?

May 5 at 6:50am · Like

Random Friend: Are you reading on a Kindle? I notice a lot of grammar errors and typos electronically that usually never happened with hard copies.

May 5 at 7:12am · Like

My friend, whom I described above: You were 100% correct to bag the novice. Applause!!!

May 5 at 7:32am · Unlike · 1


ME: It was a book by next year's JordanCon guest, Saladin Ahmed. He lives in Michigan so I had high hopes but it just didn't hook me. No one can out-awesome Pat Rothfuss apparently.

May 5 at 10:42am · Like

ME: Maybe the preposition was intentional to set up a character. Harrrrrumph! I will try again some other month. But I am book hungry right now and want to be hooked and happy.
May 5 at 10:44am · Like

ME: Just finished Sojourn by Jana Oliver (met her too) and liked it. Time travel as a tourist thing meets Jack the Ripper. I recommend it but there are 3 books and the first was clearly not meant to be an "ending". Might start book two. Quick reads.

May 5 at 10:47am · Like

My friend: you do 'amber' / zelazny?

May 5 at 11:18am · Edited · Like


Random friend: Your grammar police issue is behavior I will not put up with! #seewhatididthere

May 5 at 11:22am · Edited · Unlike · 2


3rd TL: , Zelazny & Chronicles is a good one

May 5 at 11:46am · Like · 1
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My friend: Just got the omnibus of all 10 Ambers. On 3-change now. Getting better as it goes. I've heard it loses steam roundabout book 7 but we'll see. Omnibus far more convenient than 10 paperbacks, for sure. $14.12 on Amazon is tough to ignore.

May 5 at 12:05pm · Like

Random Friend: Blame it on the editor, not the author.

May 5 at 1:04pm · Like · 1

YOU: Ending a sentence in a preposition can be a voice issue. Most people don't think or speak in formal English. For instance, imagine a cop's POV.

"College protesters tended to fall into one of two groups: harmless kids with daddy issues and genuine ana...See More

May 5 at 1:20pm · Like
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YOU: I'd also like to point out that sometimes the only way to avoid ending a sentence with a preposition is to sound like Yoda.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/.../ending-sentences...

Ending sentences with prepositions - Oxford Dictionaries (US)
www.oxforddictionaries.com
Ending sentences with prepositions by Oxford Dictionaries (US)
.
May 5 at 2:42pm · Like · Remove Preview
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My Friend: Make an example, cut off his Littlefinger.

May 5 at 2:57pm · Like
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TL #4: <Insert name of TL #5>, what do you think of this?

May 5 at 3:01pm · Like
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YOU: She's the one who gave me the link and she can't comment in this thread since somehow she and SBC aren't Facebook friends anymore.

So, I'll summarize her position by saying she wholeheartedly agrees with me.

May 5 at 4:19pm · Unlike · 1
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YOU: A little more elaboration.

May 5 at 4:29pm · Like
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http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/.../grammar-myths.../


Grammar myths #1: is it wrong to end a sentence with a preposition? | OxfordWords blog
blog.oxforddictionaries.com

Stranded prepositions are nothing to fret about There are numerous myths relatin... See More
.
May 5 at 4:29pm · Like · Remove Preview
..

TL #4: http://youtu.be/P_i1xk07o4g. This.


Play Video


Vampire Weekend - Oxford Comma

New video from Vampire Weekend for the single 'Oxford Comma' directed by Richard Ayoade.
.
May 5 at 4:34pm · Like · Remove Preview
..
And if you don't like that, here's a classic joke.

Two women are sitting at a bus stop. The first person says "Where're y'all from?"...See More

May 5 at 4:42pm · Unlike · 2
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YOU: Lol yup

May 5 at 5:01pm · Like
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My Friend: "After threescore and more years on God’s great earth, Adoulla found that his beloved birth city was one of the few things he was not tired of. "

First paragraph of the book. That's lazy and cliche even if you decide to call them 'postpositions'.

May 5 at 5:22pm · Like
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ME: EXACTLY

May 5 at 5:34pm · Like


ME: Will check out Zelazny And just corrected the issue with <name of TL>.

May 5 at 5:36pm · Like · 1


ME: But ten ? Really? Again?

May 5 at 5:38pm · Like
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My Friend: They're short lol

May 5 at 5:44pm · Like
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My Friend: 1258pp total

May 5 at 5:45pm · Unlike · 1
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You: What's lazy about it

May 5 at 8:35pm · Like
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My Friend: cliches, by definition

May 5 at 8:36pm · Like
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You: So you're objecting to "three score" and "God's Great Earth?" Because that has nothing to do with prepositions. I'd have to read the chapter to get a sense of it, but judging by the fact that the character's name is Abdoullah, I suspect that part of th...See More

May 5 at 8:49pm · Like
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My Friend: Neither...."..tired of" is what I meant. It's threadbare and lazy, and it ends his first graf.....and yes I'd hang it on the editor. The rest of the chapter which is online is no less unimaginative.

May 5 at 8:53pm · Edited · Like
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You: "Tired of" is not a cliche.

May 5 at 9:02pm · Like
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My Friend: Thanks. I didn't know that.

May 5 at 9:03pm · Like
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You: Then why are you objecting to it?

May 5 at 9:05pm · Like
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My Friend: Because sarcasm works best on Leafs fans?

May 5 at 9:06pm · Unlike · 1
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You: My point is that you can call anything lazy or threadbare, and that simply using those words doesn't mean you've made an actual meaningful criticism. There's a difference between a cliche and a commonly used phrase. That difference is that the former i...See More

May 5 at 9:18pm · Like
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Me: <insert your name>. It is a poor paragraph. For a variety of reasons. The pages I read we're creatively disappointing. There isn't much else to argue here.

May 5 at 10:14pm · Like
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You: Maybe so - I haven't read it - but I wouldn't conclude as much simply because that sentence ends with "tired of"

May 5 at 11:07pm · Like
..

SauceyBlueConfetti
09-03-2014, 10:41 AM
So, don't attack me for being insensitive. Refusing to address your point is not insensitivity in this instance. It wasn't relevant to my point as I saw it and like I pointed out, it's a different argument. I don't have enough data to determine whether Paolini has a disorder or not. And I refuse to speculate or, as I said, armchair diagnose, as I have neither the schooling, nor the real world experience with such disorders.

You did however, feel it was necessary to repeatedly dig me with the terminology "armchair diagnosis"

GonzoTheGreat
09-03-2014, 12:17 PM
You did however, feel it was necessary to repeatedly dig me with the terminology "armchair diagnosis"
While it was obvious that you were reclining on a sofa at the time. :p

Gilshalos Sedai
09-03-2014, 12:19 PM
You did however, feel it was necessary to repeatedly dig me with the terminology "armchair diagnosis"

You're reading more into it than was there. I'm not in the habit of passive aggressive digs.

For me it would be an armchair diagnosis.

If I wanted to tell you you were wrong to make an assumption about Paolini's health, I'd tell you. I don't know the criteria upon which you're basing your supposition. So I'm not going to go there.

For fuck's sake, Saucy. When the FUCK have I EVER been passive fucking aggressive. I'm downright fucking AGGRESSIVE.

Why the hell did I fucking bother to visit again?

GonzoTheGreat
09-03-2014, 12:23 PM
Why the hell did I fucking bother to visit again?
Caveat: answering that one would definitely fall under the "armchair diagnosis" heading.

Gilshalos Sedai
09-03-2014, 01:00 PM
Caveat: answering that one would definitely fall under the "armchair diagnosis" heading.

Shut up, Gonzo.

SauceyBlueConfetti
09-03-2014, 01:19 PM
You're reading more into it than was there. I'm not in the habit of passive aggressive digs.



Just clarifying how I felt. It is not a "smiley" kind of subject.

fdsaf3
09-03-2014, 05:02 PM
You did however, feel it was necessary to repeatedly dig me with the terminology "armchair diagnosis"

To be honest with you, I don't see how it isn't exactly that. My reading of your point is that based on your observations of his (Paolini's) behavior, he has tendencies which fall on the autism/Asperger's spectrum. Is that a fair summary?

The reason it falls under the category of armchair diagnosis is that, to the best of my knowledge, you haven't personally met the guy. If you have, and if you have the proper medical training to make these kind of statements, then at least I wouldn't classify your statements as armchair diagnosis. They're still off-base and offensive to me, and have no place in a conversation about someone's writing ability.

Uno
09-03-2014, 05:15 PM
Hmm ... so Theorylanders are even willing to have lengthy arguments about a book series few of them have read and none of them like. I'm almost a bit proud of that.

Frenzy
09-03-2014, 10:58 PM
Hmm ... so Theorylanders are even willing to have lengthy arguments about a book series few of them have read and none of them like. I'm almost a bit proud of that.

HA!!

Terez
09-03-2014, 11:12 PM
Spartan women also were unique in the Greek world in a number of other respects - they could divorce their husbands; they were encouraged to practice infidelity if their husbands were considered too old or unfit to produce strong children; they were encouraged to exercise alongside Spartan men (again with the belief that fit women produced fit children). It's a stark contrast to the far more cloistered role of women (or at least of aristocratic women) elsewhere in Ancient Greece, especially Athens.
It's also not clear whether pederastic relationships in Sparta were commonly sexual. There is more evidence of adult homosexuality in the military tradition, from what I understand.

SauceyBlueConfetti
09-04-2014, 11:24 AM
To be honest with you, I don't see how it isn't exactly that. My reading of your point is that based on your observations of his (Paolini's) behavior, he has tendencies which fall on the autism/Asperger's spectrum. Is that a fair summary?

The reason it falls under the category of armchair diagnosis is that, to the best of my knowledge, you haven't personally met the guy. If you have, and if you have the proper medical training to make these kind of statements, then at least I wouldn't classify your statements as armchair diagnosis. They're still off-base and offensive to me, and have no place in a conversation about someone's writing ability.

Armchair diagnosis is usually a term reserved for folks with no first hand knowledge of a situation. Sort of "hey I saw a documentary on tv about This and now I am an expert". It's MEANT to be insulting. Moving on

Ok. Sooo I offended sensibilities by discussing mental illness/medical terminology regarding someone's work. Oh no! Let me be clear on rules:

I CAN discuss on this site an "author's" (your term not mine here):

Religion
Financial background
Education
Age
Sexual preference
Health status
Geographic location
Hygiene
Family history
Family status
Intelligence level estimation
Political leanings
Political stances
Physical description

And...well that's a start based on prior discussions of authors I can immediately bring to mind.

But mental health and symptomatic behaviors cross a line?


Ok. Just clarifying. Sorry I offended your world.

The Unreasoner
09-04-2014, 01:36 PM
It's also not clear whether pederastic relationships in Sparta were commonly sexual. There is more evidence of adult homosexuality in the military tradition, from what I understand.

How about that. Men not being raped by their mentors as children also live in the most gender equal society in Greek antiquity.

Terez
09-04-2014, 01:53 PM
It's debatable. The historian with the most first-hand knowledge, Xenophon, insists pederastic relationships in Sparta were non-sexual; Plutarch apparently claimed otherwise, but he wrote from a position of relative ignorance. (All that from Wikipedia.)

GonzoTheGreat
09-05-2014, 03:21 AM
But mental health and symptomatic behaviors cross a line?
I won't (started to use "can't", but that would obviously be untrue) speak for others in this, but for me mental health and such fall under a "medical diagnosis" heading. And unless you are a competent medical professional who has examined the (alleged) patient, you would not be in a position to give such a diagnosis. Of course, if you did qualify, then it would be unethical to share the diagnosis with us.

Something like "family status" is quite different, as that is a matter of law, which is insane by definition, so giving a diagnosis on that is all right for anyone. And religion ... I think it wouldn't be a good idea to get sidetracked into that on this thread.

Daekyras
09-05-2014, 04:26 AM
Armchair diagnosis is usually a term reserved for folks with no first hand knowledge of a situation. Sort of "hey I saw a documentary on tv about This and now I am an expert". It's MEANT to be insulting. Moving on

Ok. Sooo I offended sensibilities by discussing mental illness/medical terminology regarding someone's work. Oh no! Let me be clear on rules:

I CAN discuss on this site an "author's" (your term not mine here):

Religion
Financial background
Education
Age
Sexual preference
Health status
Geographic location
Hygiene
Family history
Family status
Intelligence level estimation
Political leanings
Political stances
Physical description

And...well that's a start based on prior discussions of authors I can immediately bring to mind.

But mental health and symptomatic behaviors cross a line?


Ok. Just clarifying. Sorry I offended your world.

Am I the only one who thinks that being offended is a choice?

As in: someone says something I disagree with or that is broaching a topic that I have first hand experience and the response is:

1) that is offensive
or
2) they MUST be trolling.

I really cant imagine being offended by something on the boards here. I have described some posts(not Posters!) as "borderline offensive" in the past but I meant in the general sense.

I have noticed , however, in the last six months or so an increased number of people responding with righteous indignation to posts.

And SBC, I agree with you. A fee weeks ago there was a full discussion on the possibility of another author being a "disgusting paedo". But not much condemnation of those posters.

GonzoTheGreat
09-05-2014, 05:50 AM
Am I the only one who thinks that being offended is a choice?
A choice by whom?

Feeling offended may be a choice by you, or it may be a very rational 'answer' to what someone else says or does.
Offending someone else may be a choice, or it may be the result of some silly interpretation that other person attaches to something you said or did or even to something he imagines you said or did.

So I would say that being offended may be a choice, but it need not be.

Daekyras
09-05-2014, 07:11 AM
A choice by whom?

Feeling offended may be a choice by you, or it may be a very rational 'answer' to what someone else says or does.
Offending someone else may be a choice, or it may be the result of some silly interpretation that other person attaches to something you said or did or even to something he imagines you said or did.

So I would say that being offended may be a choice, but it need not be.

Good point.

Yes, some people may try to offend you but that for them to succeed you have to actively TAKE offense.

Im Irish, so say you randomly made an "Irish" joke not knowing that.

Should I take offense? Are you trolling me?

The answer, for me, is no. To both questions.

Now you know I'm Irish. Lets say You then make another Irish joke(or a "short" joke, or one about catholics or work ethic or race or potatoes....you get the picture)

Should I now take offense? Are you trolling me?

I would still say no to the first question. Why would i give you the pleasure of responding how you may have being attempting to make me respond.

As for the second question, that is still up for interpretation. Perhaps you are but perhaps you just didnt think about it.

I may not be explaining myself clearly or maybe I am simply hard to offend. But at the same token some posters may read this and my last message and take offense from it when genuinely, none is meant.

Gilshalos Sedai
09-05-2014, 08:32 AM
Nevermind

yks 6nnetu hing
09-05-2014, 09:01 AM
getting offended and understanding things is really the same thing. you can never put it on only one party - either the recipient or the sender.

I could post this thing in Estonian and if you don't understand, that's YOUR problem, not mine - right? Likewise with insults: you can't expect people to never take anything as an insult, because (and this may come as a shock to some people) human beings don't work that way. If we're not here to exchange ideas, have discussions about things, have fun etc., then really, what's this place for?

In any community there are some central rules, which keep the community functioning. Language is one, general rules of conduct is another one. You don't fart in people's faces because it smells bad. You don't play loud "music" at 3 AM because other people are trying to sleep. if you do, you're rude and may get punished for your actions. well, likewise with insults of the verbal kind.

ETA: I had this discussion at work last week. No, understanding something is NOT only on the recipient side if the other person is incapable of using their "inside voice" and speaking in full sentences. a good way of figuring out where the problem is is this: do you have a fight always on the same topic? do you have a fight with the same person over different topics? Do you have a fight with many people over different topics? If you're always having fights with EVERYBODY, no matter what it's about, then the problem is you. not them, you.

Daekyras
09-05-2014, 09:12 AM
If we're not here to exchange ideas, have discussions about things, have fun etc., then really, what's this place for?


Ah Yks, you are far more eloquent in English than I and its not even your first language!

That is what i was trying to say. We are here to discuss. not everyone will agree with us on certain points. That is how discussion works. I dont think we should be getting offended when that happens.

Perhaps your sign is right- Maybe we are all fanatics!

yks 6nnetu hing
09-05-2014, 09:20 AM
Ah Yks, you are far more eloquent in English than I and its not even your first language! why, thank you :)

That is what i was trying to say. We are here to discuss. not everyone will agree with us on certain points. That is how discussion works. I dont think we should be getting offended when that happens.

sadly, as I said, that's not how human nature works. Most people react emotionally to certain triggers - be it sadness, joy, anger, love... well, in this case we're dealing with annoyance and anger. These are generally triggered when people feel they are not being taken seriously or when they are summarily being dismissed because of some random characteristic (they're the wrong gender, colour, language group, educational level... you name it). That is the basis of a personal attack, really: saying that someone's opinion is less valid because a b or c.



of course, sometimes someone's opinion IS less valid because it conflicts with facts or with the opinion of the greater community. but that's a whole 'nother discussion.

Uno
09-05-2014, 09:40 AM
Getting offended is fine--it's an emotional reaction you can't always easily keep in check. What you can't reasonably expect is to invoke your hurt feelings as a kind of debate-stopping magical formula.

fdsaf3
09-05-2014, 10:47 AM
Armchair diagnosis is usually a term reserved for folks with no first hand knowledge of a situation. Sort of "hey I saw a documentary on tv about This and now I am an expert". It's MEANT to be insulting. Moving on

Ok. Sooo I offended sensibilities by discussing mental illness/medical terminology regarding someone's work. Oh no! Let me be clear on rules:

I CAN discuss on this site an "author's" (your term not mine here):

Religion
Financial background
Education
Age
Sexual preference
Health status
Geographic location
Hygiene
Family history
Family status
Intelligence level estimation
Political leanings
Political stances
Physical description

And...well that's a start based on prior discussions of authors I can immediately bring to mind.

But mental health and symptomatic behaviors cross a line?


Ok. Just clarifying. Sorry I offended your world.

I'm not going to be intimidated by someone who uses flat-out rudeness as a way of bullying those who dare disagree with her.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you have no training, experience, or qualifications which would allow you to make a diagnosis of someone as having a behavioral disorder. If you don't, what you did is by definition an armchair diagnosis. I don't care if you like it.

What offends me is that a discussion about the merits of a BOOK became an indictment of a person's character. Your speculation that he has autism/Asperger's is, as as I said before, 100% immaterial. If it's true, he can't help it. If it's not, it's incredibly rude to suggest he does. Either way, it has nothing to do with anything.

You can sit here and throw temper tantrums and make up straw men about what topics are off-limits (for the record, if you actually care about what I think, I'm not all that easily offended) and try to bully people who disagree with you by being outright rude to them. It doesn't impress me at all.

Davian93
09-05-2014, 12:13 PM
I'm offended.

SauceyBlueConfetti
09-05-2014, 01:03 PM
You can sit here and throw temper tantrums and make up straw men about what topics are off-limits (for the record, if you actually care about what I think, I'm not all that easily offended) and try to bully people who disagree with you by being outright rude to them. It doesn't impress me at all.

LMFAO

That was NOT the intent, but feel free to interpret and continue to insult me.

As I stated EARLIER in the thread, I do actually have first hand knowledge of the affliction. Shall I explain how that included doc reports, monitoring, watching for triggers, drug interactions, over medicating, warning signals and removal from situations that are causing stress, etc? But ignore that part. Cuz, ya know, it means nothing.

I made a comment about a subject I am quite familiar with in my life. It was an observation, nothing more, nothing less. I suggest you REREAD IT. Others felt it was an UNEDUCATED comment and pointed that out. Repeatedly. Using insulting terminology. It wasn't an UNEDUCATED situation. I pointed that out. Twice. Then I was attacked, BY YOU, for OFFENDING you.

I responded, and now I am the rude one. LMAO. Temper tantrum. Fine, call it what you want. That equate to pot=kettle at this point. I, like Gil, am not passive aggressive. Bite me, I bite back. You are, by definition, being a troll now though.

Edited to add: Mental health status is now an "INDICTMENT" of someone's character? You sir, are the one with the problem if you believe that in any way. THAT IS NOT WHAT I SAID. My initial comments were meant to point out that it was possibly a TASK, and set of rules, a path to be followed, step by step (which he freely admits in various interviews) by reading at least two books on "how to write a book".

On that note, I am out. "You don't impress me?" LOLOLOLOL

Leanne
09-05-2014, 02:20 PM
Who are you? Pam
Where? Philadelphia, PA
How long at TL? few years
Will you reread soon? Currently
What are you reading now? A Crown of Swords
Read all forums, or just non? All
Favorite book? Changes, Fires of Heaven
Happy with the ending? yep
One random thing? I tried to put freon in my car A/C at lunch and failed miserably.

Durvasha
09-05-2014, 04:21 PM
Who are you? Sushil
Where? Auckland, NZ.
How long at TL? Lurking since TL forum was in ezboard. No idea when that was (late 90s, early 00s?)
Will you reread soon? May be not
What are you reading now? Sanderson's stuffs.
Read all forums, or just non? Mostly non.
Favorite book? The Dragon Reborn
Happy with the ending? ambivalent about it.
One random thing? I wish people knew not all Nepalese have been to Everest.

Kimon
09-05-2014, 06:40 PM
It's debatable. The historian with the most first-hand knowledge, Xenophon, insists pederastic relationships in Sparta were non-sexual; Plutarch apparently claimed otherwise, but he wrote from a position of relative ignorance. (All that from Wikipedia.)

Xenophon often is a dangerous source when it comes to descriptions of Sparta, which might seem slightly odd considering he was an Athenian, but he was a blatantly pro-Spartan propagandist, and tends to always paint Sparta in the best light. This for instance is his description of the aftermath of the Battle of Leuktra:

Hellenica 6.4.16
After these things had happened, the messenger who was sent to carry the news of the calamity to Lacedaemon arrived there on the last day of the festival of the Gymnopaediae, when the chorus of men was in the theatre. And when the ephors heard of the disaster, they were indeed distressed, as, I conceive, was inevitable; yet they did not withdraw the chorus, but suffered it to finish its performance. Further, although they duly gave the names of the dead to their several kinsmen, they gave orders to the women not to make any outcry, but to bear the calamity in silence. And on the following day one could see those whose relatives had been killed going about in public with bright and cheerful faces, while of those whose relatives had been reported as living you would have seen but few, and these few walking about gloomy and downcast.

This description wouldn't exactly give one the accurate impression that Sparta had just been completely humiliated by Thebes, the Helots all freed, and Sparta rendered for ever after insignificant.

Terez
09-05-2014, 07:09 PM
Xenophon often is a dangerous source when it comes to descriptions of Sparta, which might seem slightly odd considering he was an Athenian, but he was a blatantly pro-Spartan propagandist, and tends to always paint Sparta in the best light.
That is good to know, but the question to me is, being an Athenian, would he have seen pederasty as a moral issue, that by abstaining from sexual pederastic relations the Spartans were morally superior? I suppose it's possible; it would probably help to read what he actually said about it. Wikipedia says that Xenophon claimed the Spartans believed that taking these mentor-boy relationships to a sexual level was akin to incest. Plato, for all his platonicism, did not seem to see it in exactly the same way.

I suppose it's possible to see both Plato and Xenophon as modern-day survivors of child abuse (at the hands of Socrates), each dealing with the problem in his own way.

Kimon
09-05-2014, 07:36 PM
That is good to know, but the question to me is, being an Athenian, would he have seen pederasty as a moral issue, that by abstaining from sexual pederastic relations the Spartans were morally superior? I suppose it's possible; it would probably help to read what he actually said about it. Wikipedia says that Xenophon claimed the Spartans believed that taking these mentor-boy relationships to a sexual level was akin to incest. Plato, for all his platonicism, did not seem to see it in exactly the same way.

I suppose it's possible to see both Plato and Xenophon as modern-day survivors of child abuse (at the hands of Socrates), each dealing with the problem in his own way.

This isn't exactly my area of expertise. I mostly studied ancient warfare, politics, and diplomacy. When I ventured out of that realm it was mostly into religion and mythology. I've read some saucy poetry, but mostly Catullus, which is saucy in a different way, and while I've read some Sappho, that also isn't exactly pertinent here.

I could point you in the right direction however if you want to learn more. Read this - it's a speech by Aeschines, Against Timarchos.

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/pwh/aeschines.asp

Terez
09-05-2014, 07:44 PM
haha, I just linked that in another thread.

(PS) Also, I quoted from a book that discusses it. It's very interesting in terms of the painted contrast between Aeschines (upright, moral erastes) and Timarchos (prostitute). The crime of Timarchos was not pederasty itself, but an excess that suggested he traded sexual favors for gifts and money.

Kimon
09-05-2014, 08:26 PM
haha, I just linked that in another thread.

(PS) Also, I quoted from a book that discusses it. It's very interesting in terms of the painted contrast between Aeschines (upright, moral erastes) and Timarchos (prostitute). The crime of Timarchos was not pederasty itself, but an excess that suggested he traded sexual favors for gifts and money.

Weird. Found your comment on it in your teacher thread. Not that it matters much, but Aeschines didn't really care about Timarchos, he was just a convenient target to use in clearing himself of a treason charge brought against him by Demosthenes (and Timarchos) for his role in botching an embassy to gather support against Philip.

Terez
09-05-2014, 08:34 PM
Yeah, I gathered as much. But he was making a moral/legal distinction that speaks to the expected views of his jury.

fdsaf3
09-09-2014, 09:46 AM
LMFAO

That was NOT the intent, but feel free to interpret and continue to insult me.

If you feel I'm insulting you, maybe check your ego. I've been pointing out how what you are saying is offensive. If you want to play the victim card and say I'm attacking you because I'm being critical, ok. Enjoy the make-believe persecution.


As I stated EARLIER in the thread, I do actually have first hand knowledge of the affliction. Shall I explain how that included doc reports, monitoring, watching for triggers, drug interactions, over medicating, warning signals and removal from situations that are causing stress, etc? But ignore that part. Cuz, ya know, it means nothing.

I don't know how to make this any more clear to you than I already have. Unless you are a trained mental health professional with first-hand experience with Christopher Paolini, what you have done is provided an armchair diagnosis of a behavioral disorder. I don't see why you think that knowing someone with autism/Asberger's makes you able to diagnose someone who you don't even know, never have met, and lives a life which you know very little about. I hope you do realize that people who are trained to make these diagnoses are hesitant to give their medical opinions willy-nilly. I'm glad you feel that your extensive personal experience qualifies you to have an opinion where a trained professional would be more cautious. Welcome to the internet, I guess.

I made a comment about a subject I am quite familiar with in my life. It was an observation, nothing more, nothing less. I suggest you REREAD IT. Others felt it was an UNEDUCATED comment and pointed that out. Repeatedly. Using insulting terminology. It wasn't an UNEDUCATED situation. I pointed that out. Twice. Then I was attacked, BY YOU, for OFFENDING you.

I don't understand why you don't understand this. It's clear as day to me: this conversation started as a criticism of Paolini's work. When you make a comment about his mental health status (disregarding your lack of qualification to make such an assessment), it crosses a line. Period. Not only is it entirely immaterial to the issue of whether Eragon is a good book, associating him with a mental health condition he may or may not have is Bad. Maybe one day you'll realize it's not ok to go around suggesting people you've never met have behavioral health issues. I can't make this any more clear, so if you don't understand I can't help you.

I responded, and now I am the rude one. LMAO. Temper tantrum. Fine, call it what you want. That equate to pot=kettle at this point. I, like Gil, am not passive aggressive. Bite me, I bite back. You are, by definition, being a troll now though.

You don't like being called out for being rude. I get it. Maybe try reading your responses with a more objective, critical lens to get a sense of why I have a problem with what you're saying. If me "biting" you is calling you out for an unfair assessment of someone's mental health which you are not qualified to make, I guess I'm guilty as charged.

Calling me a troll doesn't make me one. In fact, calling me a troll is a lazy way of try minimizing me and my opinions. If it makes you happy, though, it's fine with me. I'm comfortable with how I've handled myself here.

If I'm the only one in the world who is willing to call you on your bullshit here (and it seems I am, based on what I've seen from people who still post here), so be it. But your attitude of beating people down who disagree with you does not intimidate me. I've stated my case for why what you said crosses a line for me. If you don't like what I've said, fine by me. I've said my piece.

Edited to add: Mental health status is now an "INDICTMENT" of someone's character? You sir, are the one with the problem if you believe that in any way. THAT IS NOT WHAT I SAID. My initial comments were meant to point out that it was possibly a TASK, and set of rules, a path to be followed, step by step (which he freely admits in various interviews) by reading at least two books on "how to write a book".

It is if you make an uneducated assessment of someone whom you've never met. Why don't you understand this?

On that note, I am out. "You don't impress me?" LOLOLOLOL

No. What I said was that your pattern of verbally abusing people who disagree with you doesn't impress me. I'm not going to shy away from speaking my piece in the face of your confrontational and disrespectful attitude.

Now, having said all of this, I'd like to suggest that this particular conversation has run its course. If you feel particularly eager to respond, maybe we can continue communicating via private message. It seemed to me based on your last message that you were finished, and that's fine with me. Frankly, I don't plan on continuing to visit this site much longer so it's probably a moot point anyway.

Zombie Sammael
09-09-2014, 06:54 PM
As someone who lives with some, is about to marry someone, and may himself deserve such a diagnosis, I have to say I find the description of Asperger's Syndrome as "an affliction" and other such negative descriptions deeply problematic. Asperger's is a serious condition that requires proper support, sympathy, and understanding to manage, but it is not the be-all and end-all of a person's life. People with the condition are quite capable of making full and productive contributions to society; in fact, in many situations having Asperger's can be an advantage over the neurotypical.

The Unreasoner
09-09-2014, 09:31 PM
As someone who lives with some, is about to marry someone, and may himself deserve such a diagnosis, I have to say I find the description of Asperger's Syndrome as "an affliction" and other such negative descriptions deeply problematic. Asperger's is a serious condition that requires proper support, sympathy, and understanding to manage, but it is not the be-all and end-all of a person's life. People with the condition are quite capable of making full and productive contributions to society; in fact, in many situations having Asperger's can be an advantage over the neurotypical.

Just out of curiosity, what do you see it as? Disease is obviously too strong, and while some people (and companies) see it as being not far below a superpower, that may be a bit strong also. Something akin to handedness, maybe 'neurotype'?


In any case, although I have no real problem with armchair diagnoses made by people with knowledge of the relevant issues (I think liability and professionalism are the real reason why doctors generally avoid the practice), I don't really see the relevance. He writes like a machine. If he does have AS, then it seems to lend credence to my 'inevitability/domino theory', meaning we should be thoroughly unimpressed. If he doesn't, then he is just a lousy, lazy, mechanical writer, and deserves the same treatment we gave to Mat and his fucking boots.

Ftr, I am not saying that AS makes bad writers. Case in point, Lupus and (maybe) Zombie (maybe having AS, not maybe being talented). But good writing takes work, and Paolini had almost a perfect storm of conditions conducive to producing lots of writing with very little work.

GonzoTheGreat
09-10-2014, 03:46 AM
Asimov also produced lots of writing with relatively little work, at least compared to how much work most writers have to put into books. Yet his works were generally still good, very good, or even outstanding.

The difference is not merely the amount of work, the difference is first and foremost one of talent. If you have such talent, then you may still need to do a lot of work to bring it to bear, or you may be able to sit down behind a typewriter and bang out yet another masterpiece. But if you don't have talent, then virtually no amount of hard work will let you produce more than "reasonable" and derivative works at best.

Terez
09-10-2014, 07:37 AM
There was this guy one time who was trying to get me to go out with him. He even bought me New Spring, which I thought I had already read (in Legends) but realized when he bought it for me that I hadn't actually. Anyway, he loaned me Eragon and said he thought I would like it. (He liked it.) I read it, and couldn't see why he liked it, and I told him so. I don't remember anything about it, except there was this dude, and he had a dragon friend. And a wizard friend?

I have been armchair-diagnosed as Aspie by a few people, including my brother's bipolar ex-nurse baby's mama. But does the term "armchair diagnosis" even make sense? Doesn't it come from "armchair quarterbacking" which actually makes a physical contrast to the person on the field? A shrink can make a diagnosis from an armchair.

GonzoTheGreat
09-10-2014, 08:08 AM
A shrink can make a diagnosis from an armchair.
Freud generally did, I think, while his patient was lying on a divan. Of course, nowadays a lot of people question the validity of the diagnoses he made.

Terez
09-10-2014, 08:09 AM
But do they blame it on his chair?