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Tomp
08-08-2014, 08:17 PM
I thought that I'd mention a thing that I've thought about for a while and which became relevant for me again today.

OLD DRIVERS

Don't get me wrong there's a lot of competent older drivers and they are often more competent than most young or middle aged drivers.

But.

There are a number of people who are either too old with diminshed physical and mental capacity or people who haven't driven for a number of years and take it up after their spouse (who have driven most of the time) have passed away or something else makes them incapable of continuing the driving.

My mother sold her car 3 years ago but still occasionally uses my car or my brothers and is still a somewhat competent driver. Earlier today she was invited to a birthday party for her old friend at the friends holiday cottage. She couldn't borrow a car from me or my brother and there was no public transport that fit, since the cottage is a good bit away from any bus stops.
The friend who celebrated her birthday said that she could go with another birthday party attendee (let's call her Birgitte). As it turned out Birgitte's husband had passed away two years ago. She had driven to the store since then but previous to his passing she hadn't driven a car since they were married in the 1950's.

My mother talked about the trip, through holiday traffic in a holiday intense county, as utterly horrible and terrifying.

Birgitte would drive at ~65 km/h on a highway where the speed limit was 110 or 120 km/h.
She would change lanes without watching for other cars.
She almost crashed twice with the car in front of her because she mistook the pedals.
And a long list of other things.

My mother phoned me shortly before they were going to leave and said that she didn't dare to go with Birgitte on the ride home (the distance was ~40 km). I told her to make up a white lie about not being able to go with Birgitte (as a white lie I suggested a thing about me passing through the area and that we were going to check out some new aquarium stuff for her fishes). Of course I was nowhere in the area, but I arranged for a taxi to pick her up and drive her home.

Anyway..

I think there should be some kind of test for older drivers to see if they have the BASIC knowledge of driving in a modern society and see if they have enough of physical and mental capabilities to drive a car in a competent way. The tests should not be that difficult to pass but there should be some form of control of ones abilitis in this regard. A suggestion would be to start such controls when a person turns 70 and then do a follow up every 5 years or so.


What do you think?

The Unreasoner
08-08-2014, 09:10 PM
Unless you want the AARP to paratroop into your backyard, I`d stfu.

Weird Harold
08-08-2014, 09:35 PM
I think there should be some kind of test for older drivers to see if they have the BASIC knowledge of driving in a modern society and see if they have enough of physical and mental capabilities to drive a car in a competent way. The tests should not be that difficult to pass but there should be some form of control of ones abilitis in this regard. A suggestion would be to start such controls when a person turns 70 and then do a follow up every 5 years or so.


What do you think?

As a driver who just turned 65, I pretty much agree with you.

Nevada just extended it's driver's license renewal period for everyone except senior citizens (60+) and now requires an in-person renewal every five years for seniors. The in-person renewal is primarily for an eye test.

However, I don't think it is primarily a matter of age in your example; Birgitte drives very much like my ex-wife did in her twenties -- when she wrecked her car because she was afraid to go completely into the oncoming traffic lane to pass an obstruction. Timid, unexperienced drivers are not the exclusive province of the old, nor even the old and young. If you can come up with some plan to weed out bad drivers across the board, you might wind up heralded as a hero -- or reviled as infringing on people's "right" to drive.

GonzoTheGreat
08-09-2014, 03:08 AM
If you can come up with some plan to weed out bad drivers across the board, you might wind up heralded as a hero -- or reviled as infringing on people's "right" to drive.
Prohibit air bags.

Cor Shan
08-09-2014, 04:07 AM
A suggestion would be to start such controls when a person turns 70 and then do a follow up every 5 years or so.

Wait, does this not already exist where you are?

Weird Harold
08-09-2014, 07:36 AM
Prohibit air bags.
That didn't do anything to curb bad driving when I was not a senior citizen. A lack of seat belts didn't do much to weed out bad drivers either.

Nazbaque
08-09-2014, 08:17 AM
That didn't do anything to curb bad driving when I was not a senior citizen. A lack of seat belts didn't do much to weed out bad drivers either.

How about destroying all cars?

GonzoTheGreat
08-09-2014, 10:23 AM
How about destroying all cars?
"Non regulated traffic being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and drive cars shall not be infringed."

If you try to mess with that, you may find yourself opposed by the NCA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Cheerleaders_Association).

Nazbaque
08-09-2014, 10:56 AM
I thought they already opposed me by reasons of being a nerd, a geek, a bookworm, an anime/manga otaku, slightly overweight and colossally smarter than any of them.

GonzoTheGreat
08-09-2014, 12:04 PM
Nah, those are merely reasons to ignore you.

Nazbaque
08-09-2014, 12:09 PM
Nah, those are merely reasons to ignore you.

what? even the overweight part?

Weird Harold
08-09-2014, 12:12 PM
How about destroying all cars?

Nah, that might work in Finland, where they've only got a few cars and mostly get around on cross-country skis and reindeer sleighs. :p

In the US, you'd be lucky to get cars cut back to just one per driver. :p

GonzoTheGreat
08-09-2014, 01:04 PM
In the US, you'd be lucky to get cars cut back to just one per driver.
There may be overweight Americans for whom one car isn't enough.

This may lead to a James Bond movie with the title: The Car Is Not Enough.

Nazbaque
08-09-2014, 02:37 PM
Nah, that might work in Finland, where they've only got a few cars and mostly get around on cross-country skis and reindeer sleighs. :p

In the US, you'd be lucky to get cars cut back to just one per driver. :p

I resent that! In today's modern Finland we have bicycles too!

SauceyBlueConfetti
08-09-2014, 03:48 PM
If you have concerns with the driving of someone you can call the police or Secretary of State/DMV to request an evaluation. You can also contact their doctor who can asK the authorities to restrict (e. Night driving) or remove entirely their license.

I would suggest doing that. How will you feel if you find out later she kills a family or runs over a child?

I struggle with folks who see something seriously wrong and throw up their hands in despair and pass the buck. Make a phone call.

Tomp
08-09-2014, 04:03 PM
If you have concerns with the driving of someone you can call the police or Secretary of State/DMV to request an evaluation. You can also contact their doctor who can asK the authorities to restrict (e. Night driving) or remove entirely their license.

I would suggest doing that. How will you feel if you find out later she kills a family or runs over a child?

I struggle with folks who see something seriously wrong and throw up their hands in despair and pass the buck. Make a phone call.

I will try that, although I have no idea of her identity other than her first name. We'll see if I can get any more info concerning her from mom.

Wait, does this not already exist where you are?

Nope, not that I know of and it bugs me.

The Unreasoner
08-09-2014, 04:06 PM
I think he lives somewhere the DMV doesn't have that, or any, power.

Terez
08-09-2014, 09:42 PM
My maternal grandma has always driven like a maniac, but now she's worse. I rode with her one night, after she had recovered from a surgery, to see if she was okay to drive, and she hit three curbs, despite my warning her that she was about to hit them. She followed my advice and avoided driving for a while, but after some time she began to feel like I was intentionally depriving her of her independence, so she started driving again. I hope she doesn't hurt anyone. I at least convinced her that her night vision is too bad to drive after sunset.

Davian93
08-09-2014, 10:20 PM
I commute into work on my bicycle and some idiot forced me off the road into a ditch all because she was on her fvcking phone...this was earlier in the week and I ended up ripping up my leg badly on my gear set as I couldn't unclip in time. Beyotch didn't even stop to see if I was okay.


Fucking cars.

GonzoTheGreat
08-10-2014, 04:25 AM
I commute into work on my bicycle and some idiot forced me off the road into a ditch all because she was on her fvcking phone...this was earlier in the week and I ended up ripping up my leg badly on my gear set as I couldn't unclip in time. Beyotch didn't even stop to see if I was okay.


Fucking cars.
If you had had a car yourself then you would have been all right.
"A carred society is a polite society."

Hey, there's a lot more similarity than I'd thought at first. Maybe the comparison is actually warranted?

Ivhon
08-11-2014, 11:36 AM
I commute into work on my bicycle and some idiot forced me off the road into a ditch all because she was on her fvcking phone...this was earlier in the week and I ended up ripping up my leg badly on my gear set as I couldn't unclip in time. Beyotch didn't even stop to see if I was okay.


Fucking cars.

I was on my way home from work a month ago and a cyclist on my left cut across me to make a right turn through a green light. I had to slam on my brakes to not hit him and I ended up spilling my coffee.

Fucking bikes.

GonzoTheGreat
08-11-2014, 12:07 PM
I had to slam on my brakes to not hit him and I ended up spilling my coffee.
How much did McDonalds pay you?

Davian93
08-11-2014, 12:13 PM
I was on my way home from work a month ago and a cyclist on my left cut across me to make a right turn through a green light. I had to slam on my brakes to not hit him and I ended up spilling my coffee.

Fucking bikes.

I hate it when cyclists do stupid things like that...gives us all a bad name.

Was it Lance? And if so, why did you brake?

Terez
08-11-2014, 12:48 PM
How much did McDonalds pay you?
I might eat at McD's every now and then, but their coffee is straight from the pits of hell.

Davian93
08-11-2014, 12:55 PM
I might eat at McD's every now and then, but their coffee is straight from the pits of hell.

Dont they use Green Mountain Coffee? That's usually pretty solid coffee.

Ivhon
08-11-2014, 04:23 PM
A) If it had been Lance, I may have made an example of him

B) I either spend all day at my favorite coffee shop/office, drink coffee at home or if Im on the fly 7-11. Never McD's or Starbucks.

Yes 7-11. Better coffee and FOOD(like substances) than McDonalds.

Terez
08-11-2014, 05:06 PM
Dont they use Green Mountain Coffee? That's usually pretty solid coffee.
It tastes like ass.

Davian93
08-11-2014, 06:48 PM
A) If it had been Lance, I may have made an example of him

B) I either spend all day at my favorite coffee shop/office, drink coffee at home or if Im on the fly 7-11. Never McD's or Starbucks.

Yes 7-11. Better coffee and FOOD(like substances) than McDonalds.

The gas station in my town makes great coffee...and its less than $2 for a 24 oz...especially if you have your own coffee cup (portable to go version) so you're just paying for the "refill" as far as they're concerned.

@Terez: That's clearly on McDs then as Green Mountain Coffee is really good usually...as far as economy coffee brands go at least.

Khoram
08-11-2014, 08:25 PM
At least up here, McDonald's bought the Tim Horton's coffee recipe. Which means McDonald's coffee is now much better. Up here. Don't know about across the border.

Terez
08-11-2014, 08:57 PM
Yeah, they probably use different coffee in different places. I have no idea what they use in MS, but it's godawful.

Davian93
08-11-2014, 09:06 PM
Yeah, they probably use different coffee in different places. I have no idea what they use in MS, but it's godawful.

It could simply be how they brew it...or how often they clean their equipment.

Terez
08-11-2014, 09:08 PM
^^^Made coffee for a living for 14 years.

SauceyBlueConfetti
08-12-2014, 12:20 PM
It tastes like ass.

OMG I AGREE


Nasty

Davian93
08-12-2014, 12:27 PM
OMG I AGREE


Nasty

~Dav wonders how both Terez and SBC know what ass tastes like...~

SauceyBlueConfetti
08-12-2014, 12:29 PM
McD changed the coffee a year or so ago around here and it is much better than previously.

Tim Hortons is very good, partially because they make new pots every 20 minutes even if they have sold none. I have heard McD bought the recipe too, but around here they taste nothing alike.

Starbucks is my go-to, but I prefer the dark blends and they aren't always ready. And the drive throughs are pointless now that they sell food. Service is basically non-existent and the wait times are beyond explanation.

7-11 is hit or miss. Sometimes they leave the pots on so long they burn and the coffee can be incredibly bitter one day and perfect the next.

So yeah, I am basically still on the look out for the perfect, fast cup of coffee.

Keurigs don't brew right IMO. I use my French press, but don't always have time for that process.


COFFEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! nom nom nom

SauceyBlueConfetti
08-12-2014, 12:31 PM
~Dav wonders how both Terez and SBC know what ass tastes like...~

It is an assumption. It tastes like a nasty public restroom smells and leaves a disgusting odor that even permeates your tastebuds. Barn-yard-like.

Davian93
08-12-2014, 12:34 PM
I hate Keurigs and everything associated with that trend in coffee making (sorry Green Mountain Coffee, while you are a VT brand and company, I despise your invention).

I dont care for Starbucks as I think they over-roast their beans and I'm fairly ambivalent about McDs or 7/11. I think Dunkin Donuts coffee is decent but not the nectar of the gods that its fanboys think it is.

Tim Horton's is always solid...a big fan of them and I wish we had one in VT. We have one across the lake in NY and a bunch north of the border but none in VT unfortunately. We're fairly anti-chain restaurant in VT and anti-corporate in general so we have a lot more independent coffee shops.

Wawa coffee is really good too...they're a big brand down in SE PA and NJ/MD. Wawa stores in general are pretty awesome and I really miss them.

At home, I only use a French Press...and I think it is, by far, the best way to brew coffee. At work, I tend to drink tea anyway as I get heartburn from too much coffee and we only have one of those dumb Keurigs at my office anyway. So I just happily drink my tea.

Ivhon
08-12-2014, 12:51 PM
Keurigs are evil and evidence of the general thoughtlessness of hipsters.

Davian93
08-12-2014, 12:56 PM
Keurigs are evil and evidence of the general thoughtlessness of hipsters.

In general, I despise the overall societal trend towards "convenience over quality". We see this with the massive amount of pre-made frozen meals, pre-made processed foods, single serving Keurig machines, etc etc.

I tend to get my vegetables/fruit from my Farm Share program or local farmers markets...same with my meat and dairy. I prefer free range chicken far over Perdue (the taste is is ridiculously different...same with fresh eggs over store eggs).

Thus, pre-filled, pre-ground coffee in a single-serving keurig package annoys me. I'd much prefer to buy fresh beans, grind them and then brew it in a French Press.

That completes my rant for the day.

GonzoTheGreat
08-12-2014, 12:58 PM
Keurigs are evil and evidence of the general thoughtlessness of hipsters.
How is that the fault of drivers of old cars?

Uno
08-12-2014, 12:58 PM
I dont care for Starbucks as I think they over-roast their beans and I'm fairly ambivalent about McDs or 7/11. I think Dunkin Donuts coffee is decent but not the nectar of the gods that its fanboys think it is.

Starbucks is pretty bad. Dunkin Donuts is just coffee. Good enough if you need a caffeine fix to wake you up a bit, but that's it.

Mr. Frenzy very generously gave me a bag of Paradise Found 100% Kona Coffee when we were in California last. I usually just buy some cheap stuff at the local grocery store, but those beans have made me reconsider that strategy.

Nazbaque
08-12-2014, 01:02 PM
~Dav wonders how both Terez and SBC know what ass tastes like...~

I would like to point out now that while I was tempted I did not make this joke. I decided not to go there. Clearly othes don't have my self control.

Davian93
08-12-2014, 01:05 PM
Starbucks is pretty bad. Dunkin Donuts is just coffee. Good enough if you need a caffeine fix to wake you up a bit, but that's it.

Mr. Frenzy very generously gave me a bag of Paradise Found 100% Kona Coffee when we were in California last. I usually just buy some cheap stuff at the local grocery store, but those beans have made me reconsider that strategy.

When I was in the Army, they sold that Hawaiian Kona coffee at the Commissary at wholesale prices and I remember it being awesome. These days, I dont have the type of cash to spend on coffee (as I recall, it goes for something like $25-30 a pound). But yes, it is awesome.

Ivhon
08-12-2014, 01:08 PM
When I was in the Army, they sold that Hawaiian Kona coffee at the Commissary at wholesale prices and I remember it being awesome. These days, I dont have the type of cash to spend on coffee (as I recall, it goes for something like $25-30 a pound). But yes, it is awesome.

I keep a stash of quality Sunday Coffee to go along with the cheap stuff I drink by the gallon.

Davian93
08-12-2014, 01:14 PM
http://www.mauiislandcoffee.com/kondarroasex.html?ref=lexity&_vs=google&_vm=productsearch

This is the good stuff. I remember it being like $10 a bag at the commissary back in the day. One of those awesome perks of being in the military.

Uno
08-12-2014, 01:14 PM
When I was in the Army, they sold that Hawaiian Kona coffee at the Commissary at wholesale prices and I remember it being awesome. These days, I dont have the type of cash to spend on coffee (as I recall, it goes for something like $25-30 a pound). But yes, it is awesome.

Yes, it's the price that gives me pause. Yes, it's very good, but don't I generally use coffee just to make me (near-) human in the morning? Hard to justify spending that much on it, then. As an aside, I remember that military coffee was sometimes surprisingly good. Usually it was swill, but, for some reason, there were bags of good coffee in circulation in the system, and if some enterprising soul managed to get hold of a few of those, you were in luck that day.

Davian93
08-12-2014, 01:16 PM
Yes, it's the price that gives me pause. Yes, it's very good, but don't I generally use coffee just to make me (near-) human in the morning? Hard to justify spending that much on it, then. As an aside, I remember that military coffee was sometimes surprisingly good. Usually it was swill, but, for some reason, there were bags of good coffee in circulation in the system, and if some enterprising soul managed to get hold of a few of those, you were in luck that day.

My OIC was a Warrant Officer and he swore by the stuff so our shop always had good coffee. As his NCO, I chipped in to help him buy it though.

Uno
08-12-2014, 01:25 PM
My OIC was a Warrant Officer and he swore by the stuff so our shop always had good coffee. As his NCO, I chipped in to help him buy it though.

I think it depended in part on how sticky fingers the quartermaster had. The stickier the better, from our perspective. I remember once when we were out enjoying ourselves in the great outdoors that someone got the bright idea that we should just try to write up a request for good coffee the same way we requested anything else we might claim to need. Surprisingly, it worked.

fdsaf3
08-12-2014, 05:46 PM
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a good cup of coffee. That said, I'm one of the people who prefers convenience to quality. I drink a cup of coffee a day for one reason: it gets me through the morning. I'm naturally a morning person, but I have found that a cup of coffee a day really ups my productivity and general mood.

I don't mean to be argumentative or contrarian, but I don't see the point in making such a fuss out of what is, for many of us, a convenient mechanism for caffeine intake. So sure, coffee snobs might look down at my admittedly low standards for what constitutes an acceptable cup of coffee. Oh well. I drink what I like - coffee, beer, whatever.

Ivhon
08-12-2014, 05:58 PM
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a good cup of coffee. That said, I'm one of the people who prefers convenience to quality. I drink a cup of coffee a day for one reason: it gets me through the morning. I'm naturally a morning person, but I have found that a cup of coffee a day really ups my productivity and general mood.

I don't mean to be argumentative or contrarian, but I don't see the point in making such a fuss out of what is, for many of us, a convenient mechanism for caffeine intake. So sure, coffee snobs might look down at my admittedly low standards for what constitutes an acceptable cup of coffee. Oh well. I drink what I like - coffee, beer, whatever.

Are you talking about coffee snobbery or Keurigs?

If coffee snobbery, I think all of us who have evidenced snobbery also acknowledge that we drink swill to get through the morning.

If Keurigs, my biggest beef is the environmental impact of all those little plastic cups. Something that hipster Keurigophiles tend to conveniently ignore. Especially considering you can get drip brewers that will make one cup for those who don't like to drink coffee by the pot. I have one, even. Although I can't fathom why I have that feature.

Terez
08-12-2014, 06:35 PM
Starbucks is pretty bad. Dunkin Donuts is just coffee. Good enough if you need a caffeine fix to wake you up a bit, but that's it.

Mr. Frenzy very generously gave me a bag of Paradise Found 100% Kona Coffee when we were in California last. I usually just buy some cheap stuff at the local grocery store, but those beans have made me reconsider that strategy.
Tru sent me some Kona coffee at least once. It's been a while so I don't remember if she sent it more than once.

Starbucks regular blend isn't great, but their methods (what Dav calls over-roasting) work well for coffees with lots of milk. It makes for an awesome white mocha, for example. :)

As for cheap stuff at the grocery store...not all cheap coffees are alike. Folger's tastes like asswater.

Nazbaque
08-12-2014, 06:49 PM
Tru sent me some Kona coffee at least once. It's been a while so I don't remember if she sent it more than once.

Starbucks regular blend isn't great, but their methods (what Dav calls over-roasting) work well for coffees with lots of milk. It makes for an awesome white mocha, for example. :)

As for cheap stuff at the grocery store...not all cheap coffees are alike. Folger's tastes like asswater.

... Okay this time I have to ask. Asswater? As in (oh no, I so did not make that pun, did I?) what a presumably unwashed butt would taste in liquid form? Or more like liquid shit? ... And if the latter how exactly do they make ... I did not need that mental image.

Uno
08-12-2014, 08:56 PM
I don't mean to be argumentative or contrarian, but I don't see the point in making such a fuss out of what is, for many of us, a convenient mechanism for caffeine intake. So sure, coffee snobs might look down at my admittedly low standards for what constitutes an acceptable cup of coffee. Oh well. I drink what I like - coffee, beer, whatever.

I'm only a snob when it comes to alcohol. If I'm going to tuck in all those empty calories, they're jolly well going to be contained in something good. And cigars, but there's zero point to me in smoking a bad cigar. I like good coffee a lot, sure, but I'll drink swill just like everyone else.

Khoram
08-12-2014, 11:27 PM
Folger's tastes like asswater.

But I thought the best part of waking up is Folger's in your cup. :confused:

rand
08-12-2014, 11:59 PM
But I thought the best part of waking up is Folger's in your cup. :confused:
Well, apparently that refers to those two girls with that cup.

Frenzy
08-13-2014, 02:47 AM
i don't drink coffee.

feel free to freak out about that fact ;)

Khoram
08-13-2014, 09:59 AM
Well, apparently that refers to those two girls with that cup.

Folger must be a pretty happy guy, then. :rolleyes: