PDA

View Full Version : My views on WOT, spoilers ahead


cocoscacao
12-14-2014, 07:24 PM
I've just finished AMOL, and after reading some reviews of others on the forums, I just had to write my own.

All I can say is, damn!

This series was the most disappointing thing I've ever read. Why? Because this was

the story that had the potential to be the best fantasy novel ever. But...

First of all, unlike most of other people out there, I actually like descriptions, they

make much clearer picture of characters, or land, so you can fully dive into the imaginary world, and WOT has tone of it.

Speaking of imaginary world, this one is the best I've encountered so far. Complex,
but just enough in size that you can keep track of all places.
Now, the story ( in the beginning at least ), was intriguing ( although not original ) and has laid a solid foundation for the plot to come.

Magic system was just great. Easy to understand, had a logic of its own, and it also limited its users not to do new and unexplained things whenever they needed it, thus allowing a reader to follow duels between magic users with such understanding that no other book out there has ( at least I don't know of any) . The differences between male and female part of the Source were also great.

So what ruined it all? Let's start with Aes Sedai.

In the first few novels, Jordan introduced us with several Aes Sedai, but mostly with Moiraine, Siuan and Verin. Those three women are the only one that deserve to be called Aes Sedai, the rest, simply put, are bunch of idiots, who totally ruined the
feeling of some super powerful, mystery shrouded, dominant faction in the world.
But why? Well, later in the novels, Egwene has a huge part in the plot with the white tower, ( this isn't Egwene bashing thread ) and you'll have to agree that her ( and most of other characters actually ) are pretty damn stupid. So how does "good" but dumb character outwits "evil" or other opponent characters? Simply make the other characters even dumber. That, unfortunately, has a major impact on the story, it becomes stupid and boring. Jordan messed up all political intrigues in his books, and the quality of novels spiraled down at the point where Rand ( and others ) had to deal with it.

Now this wouldn't be so much frustrating if ( in this case Elaida ) remained true to her stupidity
to the end, but on several occasions, she shows up more brain than Egwene and most of others. This contradiction ruins her as a realistic character completely. She also is not the only case.
Speaking of characters, since WOT has more than 1000 of them, virtually none of the main characters are developed significantly. Apart from Rand and Aviendha, others remained almost the same to me.

Now, a few words about Elayne. Her chapters, I assume, are torn straight from the children's fairytale. This character would be killed in the first half of the series if there was at least a touch of realism. Not just her, but the rest of nobility who opposed Rand, or followed him unwillingly. Seriously, if the nobility in the books is that dumb, how the hell are they still holding their power over some area?

Several other things,

- Saidin is cleansed, and white tower is oblivious of that for next 3 or 4 books?
- Seanchan, the most powerful nation, barely participate in the last battle right in front of them?
- Padan Fain grows to something more evil and powerful than the forsaken, but his story feels unfinished. Shame.
- Two river longbowmens are deadlier than any larger trained armies of any other nation.

There are probably more things I would mention, but I can't remember them right now. What a waste.

GonzoTheGreat
12-15-2014, 04:05 AM
This series was the most disappointing thing I've ever read.Don't read the Sword of Truth series. Of course, there's plenty of reason not to read that anyway, but when it comes to being disappointing in its outcome, it beats WoT by an enormous margin, on top of the other reasons not to read it.

So how does "good" but dumb character outwits "evil" or other opponent characters? Simply make the other characters even dumber. That, unfortunately, has a major impact on the story, it becomes stupid and boring.Remember the old saying: in the land of the stupid, Egwene is Amyrlin.

Seriously, if the nobility in the books is that dumb, how the hell are they still holding their power over some area?Actually, that may be a survival trait. Smart nobility starts plotting against each other, kills each other (and lots of bystanders, of course) off, and thus is selected against. Dumb nobility, on the other hand, merely plods along and allows the peasants on their estates to get on with their lives (apart from the peasants who get killed by noble stupidity, of course), so that all in all, this is fairly stable outside extreme circumstances.

- Saidin is cleansed, and white tower is oblivious of that for next 3 or 4 books?An important part of AS training is learning that the WT is the centre and repository of all knowledge. Thus, if it can't be found in the WT library, then it probably is not real. Which works well for every day situations, but not in the Dragon Age. Basically a variant of the "smart nobles are usuaully not a good idea" issue.

- Two river longbowmens are deadlier than any larger trained armies of any other nation.
That is at least in part because those other armies haven't had the time to figure out how to deal with such archers. In the 100 Years War, the French army also lost a number of times very badly to such longbowmen, but eventually they figured out that they could overcome that if they simply followed the orders of some random peasant girl. If the Shadow hadn't killed Else but had instead put her at the head of their armies, they would have won.

I agree with you on a bunch of points too, but I haven't bothered to comment on those here. Oh, and welcome to the board.

yks 6nnetu hing
12-15-2014, 08:06 AM
Nothing Gonzo says (particularly about Egwene) is to be taken seriously. Then again, I have my own biases about Egwene, so there.

To be honest, I often have the opposite problem when reading massive epics: having had the (un)fortune to provide trainings for many, many people - highly educated, highly paid professionals, I might add... People are surprisingly, depressingly, frustratingly stupid. If the protagonist of any given book (Mistborn is a good example) somehow outwits ALL of the superbaddies, there is something seriously wrong. I mean, unless that is their superpower, like Sherlock Holmes. Also, "Never attribute to malice that which can easily be explained by stupidity"

Davian93
12-15-2014, 06:47 PM
Nothing Gonzo says (particularly about Egwene) is to be taken seriously. Then again, I have my own biases about Egwene, so there.

To be honest, I often have the opposite problem when reading massive epics: having had the (un)fortune to provide trainings for many, many people - highly educated, highly paid professionals, I might add... People are surprisingly, depressingly, frustratingly stupid. If the protagonist of any given book (Mistborn is a good example) somehow outwits ALL of the superbaddies, there is something seriously wrong. I mean, unless that is their superpower, like Sherlock Holmes. Also, "Never attribute to malice that which can easily be explained by stupidity"

Every single day I am on this earth, I run into a person dumber than I ever thought possible...I am never disappointed by the stupidity of humanity.

GonzoTheGreat
12-16-2014, 03:32 AM
Every single day I am on this earth, I run into a person dumber than I ever thought possible...I am never disappointed by the stupidity of humanity.
Get out of the city. Once you manage to reach a place where you don't meet anyone at all during a whole day, that pattern will be broken. Then you can start being disappointed at how stupid humanity often is. After that, anything will be possible for you.

Tollingtoy
12-20-2014, 08:55 AM
I don't want to be rude, but I guess I'm going to be...


I didn't particularly care to hear about how people disliked the book when it came out two years ago, why post this now?

Belazamon
12-22-2014, 02:56 PM
I don't want to be rude, but I guess I'm going to be...


I didn't particularly care to hear about how people disliked the book when it came out two years ago, why post this now?

Yeah, man, if you didn't read this series when the rest of us did, then we are totally uninterested in your opinion on anything ever.

Oh, wait. Yes, that was rude.

cocoscacao
12-23-2014, 06:45 PM
yeah, I know, but waiting for translation sucks.

Tollingtoy
12-27-2014, 08:10 AM
Yeah, man, if you didn't read this series when the rest of us did, then we are totally uninterested in your opinion on anything ever.

Oh, wait. Yes, that was rude.



The point is, this has already been beaten to death, resurrected and then beaten again here, I'm not sure what this adds to the conversation about it.

GonzoTheGreat
12-27-2014, 08:43 AM
The point is, this has already been beaten to death, resurrected and then beaten again here, I'm not sure what this adds to the conversation about it.
How about a feeling of deja vu? :p

Belazamon
01-02-2015, 01:08 AM
The point is, this has already been beaten to death, resurrected and then beaten again here, I'm not sure what this adds to the conversation about it.
Maybe it adds the enthusiasm of a newcomer to the series?

Nah, you're right, screw those guys. Don't know what I was thinking.

Belazamon
01-02-2015, 01:10 AM
yeah, I know, but waiting for translation sucks.
No worries, I'm sure that does suck. Welcome to the boards, don't mind the old cynics.

Frenzy
01-04-2015, 10:59 PM
It's probably starting a new conversation for those who just got to this point. Not everyone started reading the series back in the 80's, y'know.

I personally don't understand the Egwene hatred. Though, if i could be arsed, i could read countless threads on that topic.

Yes, most of the nobles are selfish and short-sighted. That was kind of the point. Their back-stabbing shenanigans were all that was needed to stay on top when the world was normal. But the Dragon and the Last Battle upended the world order, and they had to sink or swim with the rest of humanity. Some would say that it's a cautionary tale.

If the Shadow had just waited for humanity to kill itself, they would've won. But by giving them something to band together over and fight, people stepped up and the bad guys lost.

Daekyras
01-05-2015, 06:30 AM
Don't read the Sword of Truth series. Of course, there's plenty of reason not to read that anyway, but when it comes to being disappointing in its outcome, it beats WoT by an enormous margin, on top of the other reasons not to read it.


If you want to be disappointed in the end of a series read "Memory, Sorrow and Thorn" by Tad Williams.

It is LAUGHABLY bad. Learn to use stairs, Mr. Bad Guy

GonzoTheGreat
01-05-2015, 07:54 AM
Learn to use stairs, Mr. Bad Guy
Why? For a long time, the Daleks did fairly well without that skill, and acquiring it doesn't seem to have improved their effectiveness any.

Daekyras
01-07-2015, 07:45 AM
Why? For a long time, the Daleks did fairly well without that skill, and acquiring it doesn't seem to have improved their effectiveness any.

Oh Gonzo, you HAVE to read this series now. The ending will leave you amazed.