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Terez
01-11-2015, 08:49 PM
I have started a reread, my first in over 2 years, in preparation for JordanCon, not that it needs much preparation, but I did volunteer to do panels and I am starting to forget some stuff.

I decided to start with New Spring this time. I haven't gotten very far, but I wanted to comment on the theory that Lord Emares's unnamed lackey was Weiramon.

I am thinking that this is unlikely because Lan said the officer was low-ranking. It is hard to imagine a High Lord, or a High Lord's son, ever being a low-ranking officer. I suppose the helmet could have been a disguise, though. It was a very Darkfriendy move.

Res_Ipsa
01-23-2015, 09:17 AM
I am thinking that this is unlikely because Lan said the officer was low-ranking. It is hard to imagine a High Lord, or a High Lord's son, ever being a low-ranking officer. I suppose the helmet could have been a disguise, though. It was a very Darkfriendy move.

Some military cultures required their "noble" children to work their way up from the bottom, so its at least within the realm of possibility.

GonzoTheGreat
01-23-2015, 09:29 AM
Lan was thinking that there might be more magnificent armour and clothing beneath the rather nondescript cloak.

On the other hand, it does seem a bit out of character for Weiramon to think of hiding his identity.

Terez
01-23-2015, 09:51 AM
I'll get back to this soon; I got distracted by Sherlock Holmes. I watched the BBC series, and then felt the need (for the first time) to read the original stories.

Davian93
02-06-2015, 09:30 PM
I'll get back to this soon; I got distracted by Sherlock Holmes. I watched the BBC series, and then felt the need (for the first time) to read the original stories.

The BBC series is great...Cumberbatch and Freeman are both phenomenal in it.

Daekyras
02-07-2015, 11:09 AM
The BBC series is great...Cumberbatch and Freeman are both phenomenal in it.

A lot of un needed "are they gay" references are the only thing about that show that annoys me. And usually I poke holes in everyrhing. Except 24. Which will forever be amazing.

Davian93
02-07-2015, 12:02 PM
A lot of un needed "are they gay" references are the only thing about that show that annoys me. And usually I poke holes in everyrhing. Except 24. Which will forever be amazing.

I actually find it funny because it annoys Watson so much and Holmes has always been fairly asexual anyway. I don't see it as the older annoying humor of "gay=bad" as it is done in a manner that isn't really gay-bashing.

Its similar, in my mind, to the Seinfeld gag..."I'M NOT GAY...Not that there's anything wrong with it"


The biggest problem now is that both Freeman and Cumberbatch have seen their careers take off significantly so finding time to film new series is getting much harder for the Production team. Cumberbatch is now a leading man and Freeman has had some pretty impressive roles too...including a great job in the Fargo mini-series if you haven't had a chance to see it yet.

Daekyras
02-08-2015, 06:36 AM
I actually find it funny because it annoys Watson so much and Holmes has always been fairly asexual anyway. I don't see it as the older annoying humor of "gay=bad" as it is done in a manner that isn't really gay-bashing.

Its similar, in my mind, to the Seinfeld gag..."I'M NOT GAY...Not that there's anything wrong with it"


The biggest problem now is that both Freeman and Cumberbatch have seen their careers take off significantly so finding time to film new series is getting much harder for the Production team. Cumberbatch is now a leading man and Freeman has had some pretty impressive roles too...including a great job in the Fargo mini-series if you haven't had a chance to see it yet.

Haha, you hit the nail on the head dav! I knew it reminded me of something. I hate that gag in seinfeld. In truth I'm not a fan of the seinfeld series in general.

Davian93
02-08-2015, 05:38 PM
Haha, you hit the nail on the head dav! I knew it reminded me of something. I hate that gag in seinfeld. In truth I'm not a fan of the seinfeld series in general.

For the mid-90s, that was a very good (and progressive) take on the issue. Its amazing how far that issue has come just since my childhood until now. I remember people using the insult "that's so gay!" all the time without a real thought to what they were really saying whereas just 20 years later, that would be anathema in even moderately polite company.

It's good to see. Of course now, the fight is really on to transgender rights as it is still apparently socially acceptable to discriminate there (just ask Florida with their current 'no transgender bathrooms' legal push)

Terez
02-08-2015, 09:06 PM
I actually find it funny because it annoys Watson so much and Holmes has always been fairly asexual anyway.
I'm not so sure he was intended to be asexual. If I finish the books I might have a better idea, but apparently the only woman who ever made an impression on him was an opera diva, which has its own sort of subtext about which whole books (http://www.amazon.com/The-Queens-Throat-Homosexuality-Mystery/dp/0306810085) have been written. In the books, Poe's "Murders at the Rue Morgue" is mentioned early on; that's another two-man mystery team with lots of established subtext.

19th century subtext is like a code language; you have to be in the know to pick up on it, and there's a whole branch of literary criticism/ queer theory devoted to just that.

Davian93
02-09-2015, 04:33 PM
It's been a long, long time since I've read them so I will defer to you on that part of it. I never picked up on it but then I wasn't really looking for it. What struck me most was his passion for the mystery and outsmarting someone (something Cumberbatch portrays quite well) and his substance abuse of course.

Perhaps they were "confirmed bachelors"...

Terez
02-09-2015, 08:45 PM
It's been a long, long time since I've read them so I will defer to you on that part of it. I never picked up on it but then I wasn't really looking for it. What struck me most was his passion for the mystery and outsmarting someone (something Cumberbatch portrays quite well) and his substance abuse of course.

Perhaps they were "confirmed bachelors"...
Watson was not. That's one major thing that differs between Holmes/Watson and Dupin/narrator of "Murders in the rue Morgue".

England was probably the most punitive country in Western Europe in terms of homosexuality at that time and for at least a century previous. The Oscar Wilde incident occurred during the middle of the publication years for the Sherlock Holmes stories, but Wilde was evidence of an encroaching liberal attitude in England; not too long before, homosexuality was often punished by death. And of course, Alan Turing happened years after the Holmes stories were done. (Another Cumberbatch role, as it happens.)

In other words, you weren't supposed to pick up on it.

Davian93
02-09-2015, 08:51 PM
Watson was not.

Well he was married after all so its likely he was hetero.

Germany had some pretty repressive homosexual laws too during that period. If you'll recall, the Kaiser's own personal circle was rocked by the Eulenburg scandal.

The Kaiser's own "boys only trips" to the Norwegian fjords every summer look a bit odd in retrospect too of course.

Terez
02-09-2015, 08:55 PM
These things are relative. It all seems oppressive to us, but there were stark differences in laws, penalties, and enforcement practices. Despite Paragraph 175, Berlin became a haven for homosexual people in the lead-up to WWII.

Southpaw2012
07-08-2015, 02:32 PM
Slowwww reread

Terez
07-08-2015, 02:59 PM
I will pick it up again probably around the time the Companion comes out. For now I need to concentrate on French, but after the Companion comes out I'm going to spend more time concentrating on RJ's notes in preparation for the panel on that topic at JordanCon next year.

Marie Curie 7
10-05-2015, 10:06 PM
I am relistening to the audio books in advance of the Companion this November and JordanCon in the spring. I'm only on Lord of Chaos right now, so I won't finish all of them until well into the spring (I listen on my commute, about 30 minutes each way, except when there's baseball).

Every book I listen to again makes me appreciate all the richness of detail that RJ laid down in them, especially after getting to see his notes at College of Charleston. It's awesome.

I hope the C of C wasn't flooded too badly. There was a photo I saw from Calhoun Street (which is where the library is located) where the water was up at least halfway to 2/3 on vehicle doors. I'm wondering about Harriet's house and Team Jordan's offices (in the Carriage House), too.

Random place for this, I know. But it was about a reread/listen, sorta. :)



Edit: I just wanted to mention that I'm not suggesting with the Charleston flooding that RJ's materials at the library are in any danger. The Special Collections area is on the 2nd floor of the library. Just wondering in general about C of C and Harriet's house and all that....

Res_Ipsa
11-21-2015, 10:50 PM
I saw your revelation, Terez, that you knew RJ had intended for Taim and Demandred to be one and the same. I started my reread and came across this as well:

Chapter 11: LOC

Taim/Demandred: "And who can know what these so-called Aiel will do."

Chapter 12: LOC

Marigan/Mogehedien: "If these so-calle Aes Sedai resolve to return to the Tower . . .."

I think both easily imply knowledge and judgement that the Aiel and the current generation of Aes Sedai are something other than what they were when the Forsaken were sealed.

GonzoTheGreat
11-22-2015, 03:34 AM
Ah, the so-called red herring.

Chapter 38: LoC
Mat: You’ll need those cushions if this so-called Amyrlin finds out about this little joke of yours.

Obviously, Mathrim Cauthon is a Forsaken too (on top of being the actual Dragon Reborn, as I've shown in a previous thread). But is Mat Demandred, or is he another one? And why didn't Rahvin recognize him when they met? Perhaps Mat hadn't been replaced by a Forsaken at the time, but if so, when did it happen? The obvious solution, of course, is that it is the *finn. Which means that Moiraine is a Forsaken too, at the end of the series.

Or perhaps the "so-called" issue isn't as conclusive as many people think at first sight. (Me, I'd overlooked the Moghedien example, thus leading me off into an idea that only male Forsaken used the "so-called" phrase, while females used "who called themselves". RJ was surprised and amused by that speculation, then he shot it down thoroughly.)

Terez
11-22-2015, 07:33 AM
The so-called Aiel thing has always been one of the biggest Taimandred clues. He speaks as though he were conditioned by 2nd Age culture. This was later explained away as being something he picked up from his Forsaken bosses.

GonzoTheGreat
11-22-2015, 09:25 AM
Or, alternatively, as a sneer from someone who spoke the 2nd Age language, and knew that "Aiel" meant "dedicated". By adding "so-called" to it, he could question their dedication to Rand.
In hindsight, it was most likely both, with Taim probably not really understanding what the Aiel had originally been dedicated to, and thus not understanding why the Forsaken considered them degenerate.

Weiramon
11-26-2015, 01:39 PM
The so-called Aiel thing has always been one of the biggest Taimandred clues. He speaks as though he were conditioned by 2nd Age culture. This was later explained away as being something he picked up from his Forsaken bosses.

Bah, so many will look for the most innocent words and deeds and paint them a Darkfriend.

No doubt this Taim fellow simply picked up the vernacular while on his . . . travels.