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Southpaw2012
01-12-2015, 03:00 PM
How is it that the leaders of Israel and Palestine can come together in Paris to march in unison yet our own president nor vice-president can? Once again, we are an embarrassment on the world stage, unsurprisingly from the clowns we have running things. Was it because he was afraid of offending someone? We know how PC the Democratic Party tries to be in order to not ruffle any feathers, even if those feathers belong on barbaric animals who commit atrocious crimes. Hell, they can barely say the word "Islamic" when mentioning terrorism.

Terez
01-12-2015, 03:34 PM
How is it that the leaders of Israel and Palestine can come together in Paris to march in unison yet our own president nor vice-president can?
Because if they had, people like you (American and otherwise) would have criticized him for injecting himself into situation that had nothing to do with us for purposes of self-aggrandizement.

Southpaw2012
01-12-2015, 04:26 PM
Not when we're the nation leading the world on terror. If there was something else going on that needed his attention, send Biden. However, Obama had nothing on his schedule. Hell, fast and furious race baiting Eric Holder was in France and didn't even attend. Embarrassing.

Terez
01-12-2015, 04:52 PM
*yawn* If he had been there, you still would have said it was embarrassing. People like you are very predictable; I don't know why you even bother posting this stuff; we all know what you think.

The Unreasoner
01-12-2015, 04:54 PM
I actually sort of agree with Southpaw. Barring some important yet non-public obligation, someone should have gone. Personally I would favor Biden over Obama for something like this, both to avoid what Terez mentioned, and for more subtle reasons.

Of course, it's possible that this was just simple prudence. Obama's presence (or that of any high-ranking American) might have tipped the risk-reward balance in a sleeper's mind in an unfortunate direction. Not that America is the only target, obviously; but there is probably no leader other than maybe Netanyahu (who was there) that makes a more attractive target.

I wish you'd shut up about Holder, though. We get it, you don't like black people. And there are way bigger ways America has embarassed itself on the world stage. In fact, your ability to judge from an outsider's point of view is questionable at best. Some things you would see as shameful would appear some of our most laudable qualities to others.

I also want to point out the dangerous precedent being created here. Such base disrespect for the President, such systemic undermining of his authority, and such shameful levels of obstructionism...well, it's a game two can play. And if the GOP retakes the WH (not likely, but I think Jeb can beat Hilary), they will have made themselves incredibly vulnerable to countless vectors of attack. Irreverence for a President is good. Disrespect is not.

Southpaw2012
01-12-2015, 06:09 PM
Allen West, Ben Carson, and Herman Cain all look pretty black to me and I support them. Typical Democrat attack... Going after someone using the race card because he doesn't support a black president. I wish people would have started a campaign accusing people of being racist against Romney for only voting for Obama due to him being black, because you can bet your ass that many people who voted for Obama only know one thing about him- skin color. No, Holder is a crook and it's ignorant to continue to defend him after all that he's done.

The Unreasoner
01-12-2015, 06:33 PM
Why did you only respond to the least serious part of my post? While I actually think you are a racist, I think it's mostly the subconscious sort that most people have, if to a nauseating degree. Basically, it's why the word 'crook' rolls off your tongue so easily when talking about Michael Brown, Eric Holder, and Obama; but not Cheney, Reagan, or Zimmerman. While you should be sorry, it's not all your fault. It's probably mostly due to your parents, geography, and low socioeconomic status. But really, it was just an idle jab-the real meat of my post was everything else. Why not take a crack at replying to that?

The inanity of some posters these days...

Davian93
01-12-2015, 06:45 PM
We sent our Ambassador...was that not enough? That's kinda the role of an Ambassador actually...REPRESENTING THE UNITED STATES IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY

So stupid. Good to see you're covering the same idiotic talking points they posted on Drudge, Blaze and Foxnews this morning.

Had Holder or Kerry gone, the response would have been "Isn't this why we have an Ambassador, derp derp derp, why cant Obama use his Ambassador?!?" Had Obama or Biden gone, it would have been "Why is he kowtowing to the French and this trip is costing us, the taxpayers $454 billion a day, blah blah blah... Who does he think he is?!?"

Davian93
01-12-2015, 06:46 PM
Allen West, Ben Carson, and Herman Cain all look pretty black to me and I support them. Typical Democrat attack... Going after someone using the race card because he doesn't support a black president. I wish people would have started a campaign accusing people of being racist against Romney for only voting for Obama due to him being black, because you can bet your ass that many people who voted for Obama only know one thing about him- skin color. No, Holder is a crook and it's ignorant to continue to defend him after all that he's done.

So you're pro-war crimes and war criminals then?

Davian93
01-12-2015, 06:47 PM
Why did you only respond to the least serious part of my post? While I actually think you are a racist, I think it's mostly the subconscious sort that most people have, if to a nauseating degree. Basically, it's why the word 'crook' rolls off your tongue so easily when talking about Michael Brown, Eric Holder, and Obama; but not Cheney, Reagan, or Zimmerman. While you should be sorry, it's not all your fault. It's probably mostly due to your parents, geography, and low socioeconomic status. But really, it was just an idle jab-the real meat of my post was everything else. Why not take a crack at replying to that?

The inanity of some posters these days...

That's a bit unfair...from what I recall, its inaccurate. I believe he's actually from a fairly well-off background and not the lower class.

Kimon
01-12-2015, 07:09 PM
In all honesty, someone more high profile than the Ambassador to France should have been in attendance, but the natural choice would have been the Sec. of State who happened to be in the middle of a visit to India. With Kerry unavailable it would have made sense to send either Biden or some delegation of senators. The fact that this was not done however while perhaps a minor breach of etiquette and protocol, is not worthy of such a hyperbolic over-reaction. It is somewhat amusing however that in the same thread where you have once again directed unwarranted vitriol at the president and Eric Holder (why exactly he even came up seems odd) over a minor point of propriety you also decide to praise a collection of true clowns - Allen West, Ben Carson, and Herman Cain.

Keep in mind, this is the same Allen West who not only attempted to take up the mantle of Joe McCarthy by accusing 80 unnamed Democratic Congressmen of being communists, but also was pushed into retirement in lieu of facing court martial for his "enhanced" interrogation techniques in Iraq.

And Ben Carson? He's the doctor that doesn't believe in evolution.

Herman Cain?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW_nDFKAmCo

These guys honestly impress you more than Obama and Holder?

Nazbaque
01-12-2015, 07:11 PM
That's a bit unfair...from what I recall, its inaccurate. I believe he's actually from a fairly well-off background and not the lower class.

Which of course is a far better reason for racism. It wasn't luck and lack of morality that got his parents the money. It wasn't even skill, hard work and brains. No they were of better breeding and therefore so is he and thus he already deserves to have it all and those pesky lower races should just know their place and serve their betters.

Davian93
01-12-2015, 07:14 PM
In all honesty, someone more high profile than the Ambassador to France should have been in attendance, but the natural choice would have been the Sec. of State who happened to be in the middle of a visit to India. With Kerry unavailable it would have made sense to send either Biden or some delegation of senators. The fact that this was not done however while perhaps a minor breach of etiquette and protocol, is not worthy of such a hyperbolic over-reaction. It is somewhat amusing however that in the same thread where you have once again directed unwarranted vitriol at the president and Eric Holder (why exactly he even came up seems odd) over a minor point of propriety you also decide to praise a collection of true clowns - Allen West, Ben Carson, and Herman Cain.

Keep in mind, this is the same Allen West who not only attempted to take up the mantle of Joe McCarthy by accusing 80 unnamed Democratic Congressmen of being communists, but also was pushed into retirement in lieu of facing court martial for his "enhanced" interrogation techniques in Iraq.

And Ben Carson? He's the doctor that doesn't believe in evolution.

Herman Cain?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW_nDFKAmCo

These guys honestly impress you more than Obama and Holder?

Kerry would have been ideal...given that he's also a fluent French speaker and Francophile. Remember back in 2004 when the Right used both of those facts to attack him? It was the same time that the French were whiny sissies that didn't support us in Iraq and were therefore worse than the terrorists.

Obama going to an impromptu gathering was never going to happen due to security concerns. Never ever ever.

What West did and admitted to doing was a war crime and in a just world, he'd be prosecuted for it, not just allowed to retire in lieu of court marshal.

Davian93
01-12-2015, 07:30 PM
I didnt realize AG Holder was actually in Paris and didn't attend. That's inexcusable. I'd fire him if he wasn't already quitting.

So basically a criminal in Ferguson getting shot is more important to Holder than a massacre of innocent jouranlists and cops in the capital of our oldest Ally?

Really? WTF is up with that?!?

The Unreasoner
01-12-2015, 07:45 PM
I didnt realize AG Holder was actually in Paris and didn't attend. That's inexcusable. I'd fire him if he wasn't already quitting.

So basically a criminal in Ferguson getting shot is more important to Holder than a massacre of innocent jouranlists and cops in the capital of our oldest Ally?

Really? WTF is up with that?!?

This is why I said I sort of agreed with Southpaw. Although if Holder went and was in that photo, it could come across as arrogant...putting our chief prosecutor on the same level as forty heads of state. I think Holder went to the thing before (more substance, but less flash then the rally afterwards).

Still think Biden should have gone.

And the socioeconomic status I just put forward as a possibility. People from such backgrounds frequently adopt some kind of bigotry for scapegoating purposes. Although concerning Southpaw specifically, whatever his financial status growing up, he clearly has no class. I don't expect class from his parents either. Just goes to show money can't buy it. My nuclear family is in the 1%, but some of my close relatives are barely above the poverty line. All of them are classy folk.

Southpaw2012
01-12-2015, 09:21 PM
Why did you only respond to the least serious part of my post? While I actually think you are a racist, I think it's mostly the subconscious sort that most people have, if to a nauseating degree. Basically, it's why the word 'crook' rolls off your tongue so easily when talking about Michael Brown, Eric Holder, and Obama; but not Cheney, Reagan, or Zimmerman. While you should be sorry, it's not all your fault. It's probably mostly due to your parents, geography, and low socioeconomic status. But really, it was just an idle jab-the real meat of my post was everything else. Why not take a crack at replying to that?

The inanity of some posters these days...

Yeah I do go after Brown and Holder because they are crooks. I do think Zimmerman decision was right based on Florida law. Doesn't mean I agree with the law and from what we've heard lately, Zimmerman is showing his colors. I don't recall ever defending Cheney and it's pathetic you'd bring up Reagan. No, I'm not a racist. I just don't put up with PC bullshit retard liberals use to scare opponents into silence out of fear of being labeled. As for my background, I'm from a hardworking middle class that believes in work, not government support. You're a fucking idiot to think I'm a low born racist when I'm a law student working 20 hours a week for the school to help pay my way.

The Unreasoner
01-12-2015, 09:48 PM
You're a fucking idiot to think I'm a low born racist when I'm a law student working 20 hours a week for the school to help pay my way.
I just said it was a possibility. Many people of your...persuasions...come from such backgrounds. But you'll have to forgive me for not being impressed just because you have a part time job. It's good that you're paying for school without help from the government, but lots of people do that. Especially since you're not likely to see much of a return from your degree, opportunities are thin on the ground these days for lawyers. But at least no one else will pay the price.

Why is bringing up Reagan pathetic? And I didn't know you condemned Cheney (maybe you're not a Poe after all).

And for the last time: I think political correctness is way overrated. I've never appealed for more of it, or used it as a proxy censor. But you bring it up every time I talk to you. Why?

connabard
01-12-2015, 10:32 PM
Can I ask what the point would have been? Most of those leaders of Nations are hypocritical for that march in the first place.

GonzoTheGreat
01-13-2015, 03:35 AM
Not when we're the nation leading the world on terror.
You have the problem right there. You should cut down on exporting terror, but Congress won't allow that, and Obama is continuing the Bush policies even when Congress doesn't care one way or another.

Davian93
01-13-2015, 06:56 AM
Yeah I do go after Brown and Holder because they are crooks. I do think Zimmerman decision was right based on Florida law. Doesn't mean I agree with the law and from what we've heard lately, Zimmerman is showing his colors. I don't recall ever defending Cheney and it's pathetic you'd bring up Reagan. No, I'm not a racist. I just don't put up with PC bullshit retard liberals use to scare opponents into silence out of fear of being labeled. As for my background, I'm from a hardworking middle class that believes in work, not government support. You're a fucking idiot to think I'm a low born racist when I'm a law student working 20 hours a week for the school to help pay my way.

What laws did Holder break again?

Also, I find it highly offensive that you use the word "retard" to describe anything you find offensive. Get a clue and realize the negative connotations associated with that word. There's a reason that its not used in the DSM anymore or in polite conversation. You say you aren't low class and then go and use that word. What's next? Things you dont like are "gay"? Get a clue.

suttree
01-13-2015, 10:43 AM
I wish someone could actually time how long it takes for southpaw to post after receiving his daily chain email. We get it, you like to parrot Rush-lite soundbites. Yawn.

You have the problem right there. You should cut down on exporting terror, but Congress won't allow that, and Obama is continuing the Bush policies even when Congress doesn't care one way or another.

:D

Res_Ipsa
01-13-2015, 07:40 PM
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv/showtracker/la-et-st-jon-stewart-criticizes-obamas-noshow-in-paris-20150113-story.html

Probably should have sent someone with high stature at the least, especially given that Holder was there. Its about showing solidarity. It seems the White House agrees and recognizes the mistake, which seems like a no-brainer. After 9-11, the European leaders were quick to show solidarity with the US. It is bad form when we do not do the same.

Terez
01-13-2015, 07:46 PM
We have shown solidarity, though. There was no comparable arm-in-arm march after 9/11.

Res_Ipsa
01-13-2015, 07:54 PM
We have shown solidarity, though. There was no comparable arm-in-arm march after 9/11.

We the people or we the government of the US? Although if truth be told, as many of the gathered leaders are enemies of free speech, it raises a question of the value of showing solidarity with a group that is not comprised of true believers in free speech. But I guess that is where politics take hold.

I was going to edit my original post. I think this is the more interesting topic out of all of this:http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2015/01/13/charlie-hebdo-fallout-specters-of-fascist-past-haunt-europes-new-nationalism/

Side thought: I am watching "The Last Legion." I wonder if Colin Firth wishes the movie doesn't exist like Jamie Fox wishes "Stealth" did not exist.

Terez
01-13-2015, 08:09 PM
We the people or we the government of the US?
The latter in particular. They have done many things to show solidarity outside of the march which, again, has no historical precedent that I know of. Basically it was a staged photo op; the world leaders were kept separate from the other demonstrators.

Res_Ipsa
01-13-2015, 08:11 PM
The latter in particular. They have done many things to show solidarity outside of the march which, again, has no historical precedent that I know of. Basically it was a staged photo op; the world leaders were kept separate from the other demonstrators.

Yeah the demonstrators would have had to protest half of the gathered leaders. So the sequestration was probably for the leaders safety.

Davian93
01-14-2015, 11:19 AM
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv/showtracker/la-et-st-jon-stewart-criticizes-obamas-noshow-in-paris-20150113-story.html

Probably should have sent someone with high stature at the least, especially given that Holder was there. Its about showing solidarity. It seems the White House agrees and recognizes the mistake, which seems like a no-brainer. After 9-11, the European leaders were quick to show solidarity with the US. It is bad form when we do not do the same.

Considering how we basically flipped out on France (and Germany to a lesser extent) for even questioning our invasion of Iraq, this mistake doesn't really fly well there. There's a poor history there for us wanting the alliance to be somewhat one-sided.

Davian93
01-14-2015, 11:20 AM
We the people or we the government of the US? Although if truth be told, as many of the gathered leaders are enemies of free speech, it raises a question of the value of showing solidarity with a group that is not comprised of true believers in free speech. But I guess that is where politics take hold.

I was going to edit my original post. I think this is the more interesting topic out of all of this:http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2015/01/13/charlie-hebdo-fallout-specters-of-fascist-past-haunt-europes-new-nationalism/

Side thought: I am watching "The Last Legion." I wonder if Colin Firth wishes the movie doesn't exist like Jamie Fox wishes "Stealth" did not exist.

As long as the check cleared, I'm sure he's okay with it. All actors make horrible movies simply for the money...other than maybe Daniel Day Lewis.

suttree
01-14-2015, 11:27 AM
Once again, we are an embarrassment on the world stage,

Embarrassment you say? (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/01/11/the-free-speech-hypocrisy-of-some-world-leaders-marching-in-paris/)

Davian93
01-14-2015, 11:28 AM
Embarrassment you say? (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/01/11/the-free-speech-hypocrisy-of-some-world-leaders-marching-in-paris/)

Yup, there is that.

Tomp
01-14-2015, 11:46 AM
Free speech and the right to offend.

A good speech on the matter by Hitchens (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4hqFvXm57M)during a debate about an anti hate speech law being proposed a couple of years ago in Canada.

To bad he passed away a while back.

Uno
01-14-2015, 01:17 PM
You know, until 2013 France had a law specifically against offending the president. It's still illegal to desecrate the tricolor in public, and when someone took a photo of himself pretending to be wiping himself in private with the flag in 2010 (as part of a contest for the most politically incorrect images), the the minister of justice at the time called for criminal prosecution:

http://www.france24.com/en/20100421-controversial-French-flag-photo-stirs-passions-nice/

When these things are taken together with various other restrictions on speech and freedom of expression (Holocaust denial and ban on religious headdress in some settings), I'm not sure France itself is much of a rolemodel here.

Nazbaque
01-14-2015, 01:24 PM
*Sigh*

When will the world recognize my freedom not to be free?

suttree
01-14-2015, 01:39 PM
Free speech and the right to offend.

A good speech on the matter by Hitchens (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4hqFvXm57M)during a debate about an anti hate speech law being proposed a couple of years ago in Canada.

To bad he passed away a while back.

Ahh Hitchens. Think this post I saw the other day said it best.

Hitchens getting a mention is always interesting. He always makes the best case for bad arguments. Seriously. Go back in time and listen to him about Iraq's WMDs. Very compelling argument he made. Completely wrong, of course, as he almost invariably was after he moved on from devastating post-mortems and tackled ongoing issues that hadn't been scored yet. If I needed someone to argue for the right to kill offensive cartoonists, Hitchens might be the guy to hire if he still lived. He'd at least give pause.

Southpaw2012
01-16-2015, 02:08 PM
Kerry takes a musician to serenade France for their losses, and Obama releases five YEMEIS from Guantanamo all classified as medium-high risk. It's seriously tough not to question the motivation driving this "administration." Seriously...

Davian93
01-16-2015, 02:35 PM
Kerry takes a musician to serenade France for their losses, and Obama releases five YEMEIS from Guantanamo all classified as medium-high risk. It's seriously tough not to question the motivation driving this "administration." Seriously...

You mean the five that were all cleared for release under Bush? Oh, you were saying?

Nazbaque
01-16-2015, 02:59 PM
Kerry takes a musician to serenade France for their losses, and Obama releases five YEMEIS from Guantanamo all classified as medium-high risk. It's seriously tough not to question the motivation driving this "administration." Seriously...

Why do you even try? I mean either you believe we are all brain washed and won't listen to you or we actually go where the evidence points which you can't provide. So why try?

GonzoTheGreat
01-17-2015, 03:13 AM
Kerry takes a musician to serenade France for their losses, and Obama releases five YEMEIS from Guantanamo all classified as medium-high risk.
So what?
Either you believe in the rule of law, in which case you would be opposed to incarceration without conviction in a fair trial. Since these guys haven't been convicted in such a fair trial, they should not be kept locked up.
Or you do not believe in the rule of law, in which case you have no grounds at all on which to criticize your rulers.

So on what precise legal grounds do you think those 5 could be held in captivity?