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Morelikeunwisewoman
02-06-2015, 03:30 AM
Hello!

I will post my questions in this topic if that is ok?

I don't want to be annoying people with silly questions or stuff that everyone else already knows.

I know I'm late to the party but I only started reading Wheel of Time books a few years ago.

GonzoTheGreat
02-06-2015, 03:53 AM
Ask and you will be answered.
Sometimes you'll even get multiple contradictory answers, and, if you're lucky, you may get a single internally contradictory answer. But in general, the people on this board can't (or won't, whatever) avoid answering questions.

ShadowbaneX
02-06-2015, 06:05 AM
Ask and you will be answered.
Sometimes you'll even get multiple contradictory answers, and, if you're lucky, you may get a single internally contradictory answer. But in general, the people on this board can't (or won't, whatever) avoid answering questions.
I both agree and disagree with this response...externally.

Morelikeunwisewoman
02-06-2015, 07:39 AM
Only got a five min break and won't be able to check this til monday so I will try a couple of burning questions:

1. I loved "the Great Hunt" and really enjoyed the dark prophecy about Isam on the walls in fal dara. I then found Slayer to be a little underwhelming :(

Did we ever get a definitive explanation of slayers origins? was it similar to Rand and moridin at the end? I don't think it is because of the different looks in Tel aran rhiod and real world but I really want to know....

2. The Sea folk- Was that storyline kinda dropped? And what was the significance of giving them the land/dock in Caemlyn? It felt like a huge thing reading it but it kinda went nowhere?

3.And my last for now is a more general one-I only found out RJ had passed long after the fact. It happened before I started on the books even. I enjoyed the last few books but i didn't enjoy androl. He felt tacked on and "gary stu" ish. Am I the only one??

I have tonnes more if its ok?

Isabel
02-06-2015, 07:47 AM
Only got a five min break and won't be able to check this til monday so I will try a couple of burning questions:

1. I loved "the Great Hunt" and really enjoyed the dark prophecy about Isam on the walls in fal dara. I then found Slayer to be a little underwhelming :(

Did we ever get a definitive explanation of slayers origins? was it similar to Rand and moridin at the end? I don't think it is because of the different looks in Tel aran rhiod and real world but I really want to know....

2. The Sea folk- Was that storyline kinda dropped? And what was the significance of giving them the land/dock in Caemlyn? It felt like a huge thing reading it but it kinda went nowhere?

3.And my last for now is a more general one-I only found out RJ had passed long after the fact. It happened before I started on the books even. I enjoyed the last few books but i didn't enjoy androl. He felt tacked on and "gary stu" ish. Am I the only one??

I have tonnes more if its ok?

Androl? I block him from my memory. It didn't happen.

GonzoTheGreat
02-06-2015, 07:50 AM
1. Slayer was some kind of combination of Isam (Lan's cousin) and Luc (Rand's uncle), baked together by the DO, Ishamael, or those two together. I don't think we ever found out whether Isam could also return in his body to the real world, but we do know that Luc could appear both there and in TAR.

2. The Sea Folk might have needed another book or two to flesh out their side of things a bit more. But, as you noticed, RJ died before he could get around to that. I don't think he'd planned it that way.

3. You are definitely not the only one. My own view of Androl is "meh, not really a good character"; that probably makes me one of his most ardent supporters.

I have tonnes more if its ok?
Are those metric tonnes, or some weird imperial unit?

The Unreasoner
02-06-2015, 08:28 AM
Androl? I block him from my memory. It didn't happen.
I just tell myself it was all Sanderson. Freaking Androl felt like he came right out of a cheesy summer camp movie.

You know Unwise, if you have time, there are a few rather long threads worth reading through. The Ask thread is a good start, and links to a number of daughter threads.

And I wouldn't mind giving you a rundown of my (disproved) Taim theory. I'd love some new eyes, a fresh perspective.

SauceyBlueConfetti
02-06-2015, 11:59 AM
The Sea Folk/land grab thing was actually quite interesting. Ideas about the magnitude of giving "others" access to land and rights to WATER are pretty topical...and historically dangerous.

Comparisons to Israel at the very least can be made, as well as aboriginals in Australia and Native Americans.

Who OWNS land? Who OWNS water? Can you give me something that I think I already am entitled to based on history? Who had the authority to do so? How would affect the political situations in other countries? How would it affect other cultures who may also feel entitled to things?

The wiki page also touches on something I think many folks have overlooked, which happened LATER in the books. So truly, the story didn't peter out entirely. It just didn't scream Sea Folk:

The third term of the agreement is now of critical importance because of the mass suicide of the Amayar. The Atha'an Miere were solely based on the waves and depended upon the land-dwelling Amayar to supply their ports and their ships. Without them, the entire infrastructure of the Atha'an Miere is gone. Land at every city on navigable water will replace this loss to their resources. It also fulfills some of the Jendai Prophecies.

Marie Curie 7
02-06-2015, 12:13 PM
2. The Sea folk- Was that storyline kinda dropped? And what was the significance of giving them the land/dock in Caemlyn? It felt like a huge thing reading it but it kinda went nowhere?


The Sea Folk did have a key role to play in the Last Battle. They held back the winds at Thankan'dar using the Bowl of the Winds while Rand battled the Dark One. It just didn't get much attention in the last book because there was so much else to include.

Sarevok
02-06-2015, 12:21 PM
Another point about giving that land the Sea Folk, was that the land was never his to give away in the first place. It was Elayne's, which gave her another reason to be annoyed at him, which didn't help communications between Andor and the Lord Dragon.

Marie Curie 7
02-06-2015, 02:10 PM
1. Slayer was some kind of combination of Isam (Lan's cousin) and Luc (Rand's uncle), baked together by the DO, Ishamael, or those two together. I don't think we ever found out whether Isam could also return in his body to the real world, but we do know that Luc could appear both there and in TAR.

Isam was in the Town in the Blight at the beginning of AMoL.

Davian93
02-06-2015, 07:14 PM
Androl? I block him from my memory. It didn't happen.

Basically what she said. Some people will vehemently defend Brandon's addition to the books but there are others (like me, Isabel, etc) that feel it was like nails on a blackboard to read those parts.

Davian93
02-06-2015, 07:15 PM
Another point about giving that land the Sea Folk, was that the land was never his to give away in the first place. It was Elayne's, which gave her another reason to be annoyed at him, which didn't help communications between Andor and the Lord Dragon.

If anything, I'd imagine Elayne could easily wiggle out of it on those grounds...unless there was some part of the Dragon's Peace that made her uphold Rand's previous negotiations.

Sarevok
02-07-2015, 08:18 AM
If anything, I'd imagine Elayne could easily wiggle out of it on those grounds...unless there was some part of the Dragon's Peace that made her uphold Rand's previous negotiations.

True, but then the Sea Folk would back down on their promises to Rand. I can't remember off the top of my head what those were, but it would probably upset Rand's plans in some way...

Daekyras
02-07-2015, 11:03 AM
3.And my last for now is a more general one-I only found out RJ had passed long after the fact. It happened before I started on the books even. I enjoyed the last few books but i didn't enjoy androl. He felt tacked on and "gary stu" ish. Am I the only one??

I have tonnes more if its ok?

Its more than ok. Although your blind brandon hate is starting to become annoying. Why can't you see how good of a job he did finishing the story? He moved mountains to give us that mediocre set of books full of out of character moments and character "voices" that just never seemed right and you should be greatful to him. Why I believe most TRUE fans recognise Androl as the pinnacle of characrerisation in the WoT-verse. He was all things to all men- and one lucky woman.

P.s writing that made me wonder- is seeker around here anymore?

Marie Curie 7
02-08-2015, 01:50 PM
The wiki page also touches on something I think many folks have overlooked, which happened LATER in the books. So truly, the story didn't peter out entirely. It just didn't scream Sea Folk:

The third term of the agreement is now of critical importance because of the mass suicide of the Amayar. The Atha'an Miere were solely based on the waves and depended upon the land-dwelling Amayar to supply their ports and their ships. Without them, the entire infrastructure of the Atha'an Miere is gone. Land at every city on navigable water will replace this loss to their resources. It also fulfills some of the Jendai Prophecies.


There are many things we don't know about the Sea Folk at the end of the series (as about many of the nations); for example, I wonder how many Windfinders survived the Last Battle? Anyway, I hadn't thought much about the impact of losing the Amayar on the Sea Folk in terms of trade and their basic livelihood before, but I think the WoT Wiki overstates the problem just a bit.

I went back to the BWB and read the section on the Sea Folk and Amayar, and the BWB notes that the Sea Folk clans operate their own ports on the Sea Folk islands. In addition, they have their own dry docks and ship-building facilities; the crews for each ship oversee the construction. While the Amayar occasionally work at these facilities, they are mostly run by the Sea Folk themselves.

What the Sea Folk did lose financially is the porcelain and glass trade, since the Amayar made those things, but the Sea Folk and Amayar really didn't trade with each other for other goods.

Zombie Sammael
02-08-2015, 06:28 PM
Its more than ok. Although your blind brandon hate is starting to become annoying. Why can't you see how good of a job he did finishing the story? He moved mountains to give us that mediocre set of books full of out of character moments and character "voices" that just never seemed right and you should be greatful to him. Why I believe most TRUE fans recognise Androl as the pinnacle of characrerisation in the WoT-verse. He was all things to all men- and one lucky woman.

P.s writing that made me wonder- is seeker around here anymore?

Brandon did a fine job in difficult circumstances. Anyone who claims more or less is wrong.

With regards to Androl, as I and others have said before, I enjoyed the fact that the Androl/Pevara storyline essentially gave us a "through-line" of sorts in the final book, making it feel complete in and of itself rather than "just" the final part of the series. Others did not enjoy it for the same reason. I think everyone would rather have had more Logain.

Morelikeunwisewoman
02-09-2015, 04:01 AM
Its more than ok. Although your blind brandon hate is starting to become annoying. Why can't you see how good of a job he did finishing the story? He moved mountains to give us that mediocre set of books full of out of character moments and character "voices" that just never seemed right and you should be greatful to him. Why I believe most TRUE fans recognise Androl as the pinnacle of characrerisation in the WoT-verse. He was all things to all men- and one lucky woman.

P.s writing that made me wonder- is seeker around here anymore?

I don't hate Brandon. I agree with the next poster with the creepy avatar...

And thank you guys for answering my questions. I had no idea the sea folk issue was so important. I am a little sad we didn't get a proper explanation of slayer though...

When I am on Lunch later I will ask more.

And that TV series thing sounds hilariously bad.

Oops. wrong thread

GonzoTheGreat
02-09-2015, 05:03 AM
I went back to the BWB and read the section on the Sea Folk and Amayar, and the BWB notes that the Sea Folk clans operate their own ports on the Sea Folk islands. In addition, they have their own dry docks and ship-building facilities; the crews for each ship oversee the construction. While the Amayar occasionally work at these facilities, they are mostly run by the Sea Folk themselves.
I don't know about you, but when I make a ship that is supposed to be sea worthy (especially one that would have to carry me) then I prefer to use something more substantial than wishes.

Assuming they have wooden boats*, they would need to get a lot of wood for building those things. That wood could be imported, in principle, but transporting massive amounts of lumber across the sea isn't a very effective business model. It would make more sense to get the wood from the locals, who can harvest it on the island and then float it down the rivers.
Furthermore, those ship builders probably will have to eat now and then. Getting that food from the locals instead of having to import it from Cairhien would be the more practical solution.

Oops. wrong thread
That has happened on occasion to others too.

* Boats, ships, whatever. They're all glorified rafts, when you take the long view.

Morelikeunwisewoman
02-10-2015, 04:45 AM
Hey Guys,

couldn't get on yesterday, I was rushed at work.

I have a question about Sammael- Did he know the dangers of Shadar Logoth when he went there(he had been imprisoned a long time) and did mashadar kill him? Or was he absorbed? And if he was absorbed, did mashadar have his powers then?

Terez
02-10-2015, 05:03 AM
He knew the dangers, but he still underestimated them. Yes, Mashadar killed him, and corrupted his thread to the point that he couldn't be resurrected. Anything beyond that is speculation, though it does seem that Mashadar retains some impression of the people it kills, hence the eyes after dark.

halo6819
02-10-2015, 07:03 AM
He knew the dangers, but he still underestimated them. Yes, Mashadar killed him, and corrupted his thread to the point that he couldn't be resurrected. Anything beyond that is speculation, though it does seem that Mashadar retains some impression of the people it kills, hence the eyes after dark.

IIRC, there was an awesome theory that Fain was the one impersonating Sammel and ordering Mydrall and Trollocs around using a combination of knowledge he gained from torturing fades and being able to masquerade as Sammel due to him being absorbed by Mashadar.

and now i'm having vague recollections of the being debunked in one of the last books when it was revealed that it was a forsaken.

The Unreasoner
02-10-2015, 12:29 PM
IIRC, there was an awesome theory that Fain was the one impersonating Sammel and ordering Mydrall and Trollocs around using a combination of knowledge he gained from torturing fades and being able to masquerade as Sammel due to him being absorbed by Mashadar.

and now i'm having vague recollections of the being debunked in one of the last books when it was revealed that it was a forsaken.
I still think it was Fain at least once. We know Aran'gar did it on occasion, and that she didn't do it at least once (or for one series).

Terez
02-10-2015, 03:27 PM
RJ didn't leave an answer on this one in his notes. Maria told me she was never able to find it, and I haven't found it either. The things that Brandon wrote about the Forsaken and Shadowspawn were his own inventions, so we have no clue what RJ intended.

Morelikeunwisewoman
02-12-2015, 04:46 AM
RJ didn't leave an answer on this one in his notes. Maria told me she was never able to find it, and I haven't found it either. The things that Brandon wrote about the Forsaken and Shadowspawn were his own inventions, so we have no clue what RJ intended.

Wow. It must have been great to look at Jordan's notes. Were they really well organised or very scattered?

Who is Maria? An editor?

Thanks for answering my questions everyone.

In the earlier books, was Mat the only one who was having leached memories from manetheren? I mean the speaking the Old tongue etc? I don't recall it happening to the other boys.

yks 6nnetu hing
02-12-2015, 07:47 AM
Wow. It must have been great to look at Jordan's notes. Were they really well organised or very scattered?

Who is Maria? An editor?

Thanks for answering my questions everyone.

In the earlier books, was Mat the only one who was having leached memories from manetheren? I mean the speaking the Old tongue etc? I don't recall it happening to the other boys.

I seem to recall Moiraine commenting that it happened in general relatively often in the Two Rivers. Something about old blood/genetic memory? But, specifically, I can't recall if any of the other named characters had the same leeching of memories.

So, theoretically Perrin as well, but not Rand.

GonzoTheGreat
02-12-2015, 09:12 AM
Of course, Rand could've had some memory leeching from another source, but LTT was still pining for the fjords at the time.

On the other hand, someone else seems to have been sort of almost remembering stuff too:
Mat shrugged uncomfortably. "I don't remember." He stared at them defensively. "Well, I don't. It's all foggy. I don't know what it was, or where it came from, or what it means." He gave a self-deprecating laugh. "I don't suppose it means anything."
"I ... I think it does," Egwene said slowly. "When you shouted, I thought – just for a minute – I thought I understood you. But it's all gone, now." She sighed and shook her head. "Perhaps you're right. Strange what you can imagine at a time like that, isn't it?"Egwene wasn't a boy, but I don't think you can fault her for that.

Daekyras
02-12-2015, 09:52 AM
Egwene wasn't a boy, but I don't think you can fault her for that.

Careful, this post could be quarantined...

GonzoTheGreat
02-12-2015, 10:04 AM
I was careful, I very definitely did not actually criticize her.

Sarevok
02-12-2015, 11:04 AM
Who is Maria? An editor?


IIRC she was originally hired to handle all his fanmail but eventually helped a lot with continuity and proofreading. With Jordan's death, she's pretty much the most knowledgeable person on WoT, even before Harriet (Jordan's widow/editor).

Terez
02-12-2015, 11:41 AM
Wow. It must have been great to look at Jordan's notes. Were they really well organised or very scattered?
Both, if that makes any sense.

Who is Maria? An editor?
She was RJ's assistant, and along with Alan Romanczuk (who also worked for RJ) she was responsible for keeping Brandon in line while he was writing the last 3 books.

fionwe1987
02-12-2015, 12:15 PM
If anything, I'd imagine Elayne could easily wiggle out of it on those grounds...unless there was some part of the Dragon's Peace that made her uphold Rand's previous negotiations.
Didn't she do just that? I seem to remember her claiming she isn't bound by Rand's treaty, and extracting (or trying to) something else from the Sea Folk to give them that piece of land. And Dyelin is horrified at it, and Elayne says she didn't say where the land would be, so she would keep it in the interior, so the SF will have to pay taxes on anything they bring in or out, and feeling smug about it.

Of course, I may have dreamed up this whole thing.

fionwe1987
02-12-2015, 12:17 PM
I seem to recall Moiraine commenting that it happened in general relatively often in the Two Rivers. Something about old blood/genetic memory? But, specifically, I can't recall if any of the other named characters had the same leeching of memories.

So, theoretically Perrin as well, but not Rand.

Mat seemed to have it most strongly, going so far as to remembering specific events. Egwene almost understood him the first time he spoke the OT, and Perrin has moments later in the series. Nynaeve does not, as far as I can remember.

Anyway, the whole Old Blood stuff is some of the worst aspects of the WoT world. It doesn't really fit in with the rest of the books, but RJ kind of wrote himself into a corner in EotW, and so he ran with it, I guess.

The Unreasoner
02-12-2015, 12:53 PM
Didn't she do just that? I seem to remember her claiming she isn't bound by Rand's treaty, and extracting (or trying to) something else from the Sea Folk to give them that piece of land. And Dyelin is horrified at it, and Elayne says she didn't say where the land would be, so she would keep it in the interior, so the SF will have to pay taxes on anything they bring in or out, and feeling smug about it.

Of course, I may have dreamed up this whole thing.
It was Rand who suggested giving the Sea Folk land in the interior to Dobraine, though I think Elayne suggested something similar, but it was taxing goods moving into Andor.

Also, whatever legal wiggle room Elayne has with Rand's bargain (another point being Rand very carefully never took Andor in name, just in fact; and was holding it for Elayne), Elayne made her own bargain with the same (or a similar, I think this one was more specific) provision when she was securing gateways for the siege.

ETA:
“It might please the Light that I could leave one or two Windfinders here,” Zaida went on. “For a set time.”
Elayne wrinkled her brow as though considering. She needed those bloody women, and more than one or two. “What would you ask in return?” she said finally.
“One square mile of land on the River Erinin. Good land, mind. Not marshy or boggy. It is to be Atha’an Miere land in perpetuity. Under our laws, not Andor’s,” she added as if that were a small afterthought hardly worth mentioning.
Elayne choked on her tea. The Atha’an Miere hated leaving the sea, hated being out of sight of it. And Zaida was asking for land a thousand miles from the nearest salt water? Asking for it to be ceded absolutely, at that. Cairhienin and Murandians and even Altarans had bled trying to take bits of Andor, and Andorans had bled to keep them out. Still, one square mile was a small bit, and a small price to keep Caemlyn supplied. Not that she would let Zaida know that. And if the Sea Folk began trading directly into Andor, then Andoran goods would be able to move in Sea Folk bottoms everywhere the Sea Folk sailed, and that was everywhere. Zaida surely knew that already, but there was no point in letting her know that Elayne had thought of it. The Warder bond urged caution, yet there were times for boldness, as Birgitte should know better than anyone.
“Sometimes tea goes down the wrong way.” Not a lie; merely an evasion. “For a square mile of Andor, I deserve more than two Windfinders. The Atha’an Miere got twenty teachers and more for help using the Bowl of the Winds, and when they go you will have twenty to replace them. You have twenty-one Windfinders with you. For a mile of Andor, I should have all twenty-one, and twenty-one more in their places when they leave, for as long as Aes Sedai teach Sea Folk.” Best not to let the woman think that was her way of rejecting the offer out of hand. “Of course, the normal customs duties would apply to any goods moving off this land into Andor.”
Zaida raised her silver cup to her mouth, and when she lowered it, she wore the tiniest smile. Yet Elayne thought it was a smile of relief rather than triumph. “Goods moving into Andor, but not goods coming from the river onto our land. I might leave three Windfinders. For half a year, say. And they must not be used in fighting. I will not have my people die for you, and I will not have other Andorans angry at us because Sea Folk have killed some of them.”

There we go. Remember when posting quotes was standard protocol? It would have prevented the SBX/Terez spat, at least. If something is in the text, post a quote.

Davian93
02-12-2015, 01:53 PM
Didn't she do just that? I seem to remember her claiming she isn't bound by Rand's treaty, and extracting (or trying to) something else from the Sea Folk to give them that piece of land. And Dyelin is horrified at it, and Elayne says she didn't say where the land would be, so she would keep it in the interior, so the SF will have to pay taxes on anything they bring in or out, and feeling smug about it.

Of course, I may have dreamed up this whole thing.

Probably...I honestly dont remember and I haven't bothered to reread aMoL yet.

Terez
02-12-2015, 06:42 PM
It was Rand who suggested giving the Sea Folk land in the interior to Dobraine, though I think Elayne suggested something similar, but it was taxing goods moving into Andor.

Also, whatever legal wiggle room Elayne has with Rand's bargain (another point being Rand very carefully never took Andor in name, just in fact; and was holding it for Elayne), Elayne made her own bargain with the same (or a similar, I think this one was more specific) provision when she was securing gateways for the siege.

ETA:

There we go. Remember when posting quotes was standard protocol? It would have prevented the SBX/Terez spat, at least. If something is in the text, post a quote.
I posted all the relevant quotes at the beginning of that "spat", thanks.

The Unreasoner
02-12-2015, 08:00 PM
I posted all the relevant quotes at the beginning of that "spat", thanks.
Relevant quote?

I actually agree with you that we probably should have put two and two together. But all that stuff at Ba'alzamon's first meeting with Rand is not exactly conclusive. He could have been talking metaphorically (conflating his servants's actions with his own, being a sort of shoulder-devil), Ishamael could have been dead in the Prologue (and the DO could have been using his persona to talk with LTT). There are several logical lines of thought that diverge from yours. It was the first book, we didn't know the world yet, or it's rules, or RJ's style. Lord of the Grave (Ishamael mask), root of all evil (shoulder devil), Father of Lies (Ba'alzamon could have been lying or stretching the truth)...it seems that there is a bit more room for interpretation than you allege.

I still don't see why you didn't just give this one to them. Arguing about the validity of theories no one still believes in?

Terez
02-12-2015, 08:02 PM
There were two quotes; one to show that Ishamael told Rand about the events of the prologue on their first meeting, another to show he wasn't always flaming. As for the rest, troll elsewhere.

The Unreasoner
02-12-2015, 08:12 PM
And the flaming could just be due to long term use of the Ishamael mask. Or the memory of Ishamael growing fuzzy. His 'flickering' at Shayol Ghul isn't exactly something we'd expect a person to do, whatever happened in the prologue. Reading the other direction, one might conclude that it was the DO posing as Ishamael, not the other way around.

I'm not trolling, I'm just saying don't bite SBX's and Davian's heads off.

Terez
02-12-2015, 08:13 PM
I haven't bitten off anyone's head. Again, troll elsewhere, not in the noob's thread.

Daekyras
02-13-2015, 03:12 AM
(another point being Rand very carefully never took Andor in name, just in fact; and was holding it for Elayne)

Im fairly certain that at some point in the books Elayne exclaims:

"The Queen is Andor!"

Which would strongly imply that Rand did "take" Andor. He took "Andor" all night long.

Unless he just held "it" for Elayne...

Morelikeunwisewoman
02-18-2015, 08:58 AM
Im fairly certain that at some point in the books Elayne exclaims:

"The Queen is Andor!"

Which would strongly imply that Rand did "take" Andor. He took "Andor" all night long.

Unless he just held "it" for Elayne...

Ewwwwww.

I think its great that you guys can just answer questions without seeming to fight over the answers. And how are you all quoting so well? I'm very impressed.

I am wondering about far madding. What was causing the "de-powering" of channelers? I know there was a ter'angreal but am wondering what its purpose was in the first place...

and to follow up on that, why did steddings block the power? And would they block the true power (I think thats what ishamel uses)...

Hugh the Hand
02-18-2015, 09:26 AM
In far Medding

the terangleal basically react and counteract the use of the one power, ie block it


it also tracks where it was used.

why we do not know.

but JesusRand says they always hated change.

Terez
02-18-2015, 09:29 AM
Stedding block the Power because they are a sort of superimposition of the Ogier world on top of the Randland world. Nature follows different rules in the stedding.

yks 6nnetu hing
02-18-2015, 09:30 AM
Ewwwwww.

I think its great that you guys can just answer questions without seeming to fight over the answers. And how are you all quoting so well? I'm very impressed.

The quotes from the books, you mean? Theoryland has a search engine that's got the entire series and all (by now it's all, right?) of the interviews with... pretty much everyone from Robert Jordan to Harriet to Maria to Brandon Sanderson indexed and categorized.

Terez
02-18-2015, 09:32 AM
HWLA has not yet entered AMOL into the book search, even though we had it ready for him soon after the release. Also, the interview search is separate.

I rarely have to use the Theoryland book search any more, though it's useful for certain things. Usually I go straight to my HTML file for whatever book I want to quote, and just CTRL-F to find the quote in question.

Hugh the Hand
02-18-2015, 10:16 AM
HWLA has not yet entered AMOL into the book search, even though we had it ready for him soon after the release. Also, the interview search is separate.

I rarely have to use the Theoryland book search any more, though it's useful for certain things. Usually I go straight to my HTML file for whatever book I want to quote, and just CTRL-F to find the quote in question.

Want a cookie? :)

Terez
02-18-2015, 06:53 PM
Want a cookie? :)
She asked a question. I answered it.

Morelikeunwisewoman
02-21-2015, 02:05 AM
She asked a question. I answered it.

Thank you for answering it. :)

How did the link between Rand and moridin form? I kinda liked the body swap ending but am confused as to what caused it or how it happened...

Terez
02-21-2015, 02:13 AM
We don't know; RJ didn't leave the answer in his notes, so Brandon didn't want to make up an answer.

GonzoTheGreat
02-21-2015, 03:14 AM
How did the link between Rand and moridin form? I kinda liked the body swap ending but am confused as to what caused it or how it happened...
Speculation amongst the fans is that it was a Ghostbusters reference ("don't cross the streams"), when Rand's ordinary balefire and Moridin's True Power balefire intersected in Shadar Logoth. But, as Terez hinted, that is speculation backed up by nothing more than lots of bickering, so if you have a better idea, you can try to get that accepted instead.

Terez
02-21-2015, 03:21 AM
Rand himself thought of that in KOD, but RJ was always keen on warning us that the characters are often wrong about such things.

ShadowbaneX
02-21-2015, 09:59 AM
Rand himself thought of that in KOD, but RJ was always keen on warning us that the characters are often wrong about such things.
RJ also made Tam think one of his Theories was completely invalid when it was actually correct.

Terez
02-21-2015, 10:20 AM
RJ also made Tam think one of his Theories was completely invalid when it was actually correct.
Tam is not alone in that corner of disappointment and confusion.

ShadowbaneX
02-21-2015, 11:52 AM
That's not the point.

Terez
02-21-2015, 12:08 PM
I know, but your point doesn't amount to much, so I was just adding to the conversation.

ShadowbaneX
02-21-2015, 12:17 PM
Sure it does. It shows that RJ obfuscates the issue. He didn't outright lie or anything, but they can't entirely be trusted either.

Zombie Sammael
02-21-2015, 10:48 PM
I'd say that the circumstantial evidence throughout the series suggests that the frossing of the streams was responsible, but there's no way to be sure. It's possible the TP healibg of LTT back in TEOTW had something to do with it, or any one of their other meetings. But crossing the streams seems the most likely.

Terez
02-21-2015, 11:38 PM
Sure it does. It shows that RJ obfuscates the issue. He didn't outright lie or anything, but they can't entirely be trusted either.
Which tells us nothing as far as the question is concerned. In other words, just because RJ can't be trusted doesn't mean that when he tells us the characters can't be trusted that we should therefore take everything they believe as truth. So your observation is entirely unhelpful.

GonzoTheGreat
02-22-2015, 03:31 AM
So far, this is a good summary of both the consensus and the bickering.

Morelikeunwisewoman
02-22-2015, 07:00 AM
So far, this is a good summary of both the consensus and the bickering.

I see!!

Thanx guys. I never conaidered the crossing of the streams. I know rand was complaining about headaches after so its as good a reason as any.

In The Great Hunt (maybe my favourite ever book) Rand et al take a journey via portal stone. In it we see loads of possible futures/pasts and the famous "I win again Lews Therin". I love that whole scene.

Well I was wondering what was the deal with Mat in that moment? He starts talking about how he'd never betray Rand. As if he had seen it in multiple futures. Did that come up again in the books? I can't remember any chances Mat had to betray rand....or any implication he would...

On a strange note. I started reading with dragon reborn and loved Mat. As such the first two books were hard for me as he is kind of annoying. Did everyone else have the other side- where he was annoying and then got awesome?

GonzoTheGreat
02-22-2015, 07:37 AM
Well I was wondering what was the deal with Mat in that moment? He starts talking about how he'd never betray Rand. As if he had seen it in multiple futures. Did that come up again in the books? I can't remember any chances Mat had to betray rand....or any implication he would...
Some possibilities for this appeared during his encounters with Lanfear, both in the White Tower (where he annoyed her, and was then saved by the approach of Siuan) and in the Waste, when he bought a hat from her. Then there was the time when he spotted Rand (without recognizing him) climbing the Stone of Tear. I'm sure there were plenty of other occasions where Mat could have seriously screwed up the cause of the Light.

Sarevok
02-22-2015, 08:51 AM
Mat could also have taken a position as general with the Seanchan instead of sneaking out after marrying Tuon. He might have seriously weakened Rand's cause if he'd fought for the Seanchan trying to reclaim Randland.

Daekyras
02-22-2015, 09:04 AM
Well I was wondering what was the deal with Mat in that moment? He starts talking about how he'd never betray Rand. As if he had seen it in multiple futures. Did that come up again in the books? I can't remember any chances Mat had to betray rand....or any implication he would...

On a strange note. I started reading with dragon reborn and loved Mat. As such the first two books were hard for me as he is kind of annoying. Did everyone else have the other side- where he was annoying and then got awesome?

Eveyone except Yks. She hates Mat in much the same way sensible people hate gawyn ;)

As for your question there were some people who believed for a long time thatMat was inadvertantly spying on rand and that Min's vision of him losing the eye was him removjng the spying device...

Lupusdeusest
02-22-2015, 09:35 PM
the "de-powering" of channelers

Did you use that wording deliberately?
(Edit to explain: see the context of the original post)

Morelikeunwisewoman
02-22-2015, 10:11 PM
Did you use that wording deliberately?
(Edit to explain: see the context of the original post)

I'm not sure what you mean?

I was wondering how far madding ended up with that particular ter angreal and what its original purpose was. And now that you remind me, how did it get made? And was it made before or after the breaking?

you have a lovely avatar.

Lupusdeusest
02-23-2015, 04:38 AM
Here is my avatar embiggened (http://lupus-deus-est.deviantart.com/art/Up-is-Down-210636795). :) :)

Given that he "took Andor all night long", "de-powered" is too close to "de-flowered", which makes for much different reading (orgasm/embracing analogies aside.)

yks 6nnetu hing
02-23-2015, 04:59 AM
Eveyone except Yks. She hates Mat in much the same way sensible people hate gawyn ;)

hey now, you make that sound like I'm a fan of Gawyn. I'm neutral with a bit of boredom on Gawyn. which, considering the vast majority of opinion on him does amount to being among those most positive about him.

anyways, yes, Mat has been one of my least favourite characters since about mid Eye of the World; and crossed into "I hate that misogynistic moron with the ethical code of a 4-year-old gypsy" somewhere in the Shadow Rising. Particularly his interactions with the Aiel in that book were really painful and it just got worse after that.

Daekyras
02-23-2015, 05:02 AM
hey now, you make that sound like I'm a fan of Gawyn. I'm neutral with a bit of boredom on Gawyn. which, considering the vast majority of opinion on him does amount to being among those most positive about him.


Does such a thing exist????

Morelikeunwisewoman
02-23-2015, 05:21 AM
Here is my avatar embiggened (http://lupus-deus-est.deviantart.com/art/Up-is-Down-210636795). :) :)

Given that he "took Andor all night long", "de-powered" is too close to "de-flowered", which makes for much different reading (orgasm/embracing analogies aside.)

I didn't realise that's what you meant. I am just finishing an 18hr shift thiugh. Hukka hukka.

Did you draw your avatar? Its amazing.

I'm not sure embiggened is a cromulent word. Hukka.

Lupusdeusest
02-24-2015, 02:33 AM
I didn't realise that's what you meant. I am just finishing an 18hr shift thiugh. Hukka hukka.

Yikes. What do you even do?!


Did you draw your avatar? Its amazing.

Nope, it's a thing called a fractal flame (https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CDAQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fflam3.com%2Fflame_draves.pdf&rct=j&q=fractal.flame&ei=0jbsVODTBebKmwWPuYCgDQ&usg=AFQjCNEFJ6U4M96YeHocBwQyW2zzV5wd-A&sig2=6g3yvARtmK17OeiLsy5G-A). (Warning: pdf download)

I'm not sure embiggened is a cromulent word. Hukka.

Bah.

Morelikeunwisewoman
03-02-2015, 04:09 AM
Wow, What is a fractal flame?

Thanks for helping a new girl out guys.

Is there any explanation as to what causes Perrin's Wolfbrother nature?

Daekyras
03-02-2015, 04:28 AM
Wow, What is a fractal flame?

Thanks for helping a new girl out guys.

Is there any explanation as to what causes Perrin's Wolfbrother nature?

A fractal is an early nineties word for "magic".

And there is no explanation of Perrin as far as I know...

Lupusdeusest
03-02-2015, 06:33 AM
A fractal is an early nineties word for "magic".

And there is no explanation of Perrin as far as I know...

The plot did it. Sorry, I mean the Pattern

Terez
03-02-2015, 11:08 AM
Yikes. What do you even do?!
She told us on her noobthread that she is a nurse. In some South American country, I forget which. So she's in your season-zone.

Morelikeunwisewoman
03-02-2015, 12:00 PM
She told us on her noobthread that she is a nurse. In some South American country, I forget which. So she's in your season-zone.

You have a good memory!! I sent a private message to lupus as I kinda got warned about putting personal info up on a main board. :(

but I do live in south america and it is a lovely 88 degrees today. :) back home seems to be taking a beating from the snow. How are you european guys getting on?

Terez
03-02-2015, 01:22 PM
I just moved to the snowy north from the Gulf of Mexico where I have lived all my life. I love it up here so far. The cold is much easier to tolerate than the heat, and a snow-deprived childhood has given me an appreciation for snow that my northern friends don't have.

Lupusdeusest
03-02-2015, 09:31 PM
She is Terez. This is part of what she does.

Know Terez.

Morelikeunwisewoman
03-04-2015, 04:16 AM
She is Terez. This is part of what she does.

Know Terez.

Oh, She? I thought Terez was a man. Someone suggested her as a warder and I just assumed.

I've got to stop that.

So no explanation of the origins of WolfBrothers. I was hoping there was some lost lore on the subject. My room mate is playing a game called Dark Souls at the moment and it is full of Lore you can find and help to piece the story together. I find it fascinating.

Daekyras
03-04-2015, 04:23 AM
.

I've got to stop that.

Yes, you should. I would never make that mistake. *cough* yks, dahlia And fionwe in the opposite direction*cough*

GonzoTheGreat
03-04-2015, 07:00 AM
I was hoping there was some lost lore on the subject.
A problem with much of RJ's lost lore is that it actually lives up to the epithet "lost". Occasionally there are hints that suggest that something existed, once upon a time.

Davian93
03-04-2015, 07:09 AM
I just moved to the snowy north from the Gulf of Mexico where I have lived all my life. I love it up here so far. The cold is much easier to tolerate than the heat, and a snow-deprived childhood has given me an appreciation for snow that my northern friends don't have.

I would disagree (but of course I would) in that you can always drink water and take layers off but you dont tend to lose toes/extremities in extreme heat like you do in extreme cold.

Having dealt with both many times (thanks Uncle Sam!!!), I'd much prefer 120 degrees to -20 degrees.

Davian93
03-04-2015, 07:16 AM
Yes, you should. I would never make that mistake. *cough* yks, dahlia And fionwe in the opposite direction*cough*

Fionwe is a woman?!?

Daekyras
03-04-2015, 07:25 AM
Fionwe is a woman?!?

No, I thought he was. hence opposite direction!

Davian93
03-04-2015, 07:26 AM
No, I thought he was. hence opposite direction!

ahh...too early for me apparently.

Daekyras
03-04-2015, 07:50 AM
ahh...too early for me apparently.

Woody "would you like a beer Mr.Peterson?"

Norm "It's a little early, isn't it?"

Woody "For a beer?"

Norm "For stupid questions"

Terez
03-04-2015, 01:20 PM
I would disagree (but of course I would) in that you can always drink water and take layers off but you dont tend to lose toes/extremities in extreme heat like you do in extreme cold.

Having dealt with both many times (thanks Uncle Sam!!!), I'd much prefer 120 degrees to -20 degrees.
Putting on extra layers actually works in the cold, as I was somewhat surprised to discover. In the heat, you can be naked and still be hot.

Davian93
03-04-2015, 01:45 PM
Putting on extra layers actually works in the cold, as I was somewhat surprised to discover. In the heat, you can be naked and still be hot.

Try being outside over night in extreme cold...those extra layers only take you so far.

Terez
03-04-2015, 01:52 PM
Try being outside over night in extreme cold...those extra layers only take you so far.
What do you define as extreme cold? I've done -15 or so at this point, with a wind chill much lower. There was one point at which I wished I had a ski mask but other than that I was okay. The layers kept me warm.

PS: Also, even in Canada these lowest temperatures are rare. On the Gulf Coast, extreme heat is an every day thing, from May to September.

Davian93
03-04-2015, 03:36 PM
How long were you outside? That tends to matter on handling it.

fionwe1987
03-04-2015, 06:25 PM
How long were you outside? That tends to matter on handling it.

Yup. I was once out late, missed a bus home, and was stuck waiting for an hour. Those layers started seeming a lot more useless then.

Terez
03-04-2015, 07:50 PM
The amount of time you have to deal with it matters with heat too, less I think, because despite your lack of layers you're going to start feeling it as soon as you walk out of the air-conditioned room or car. And the average AC can't keep up a lot of the time.

I'm sure sitting around in the cold sucks, but working in the cold is not that bad because you can warm yourself up in the process. Your ass might be numb when you finally get inside, but while you're working you're okay. Working in the heat fucking sucks, end of. Especially humid heat, when it's so muggy you can't breathe, and you're sweating so much that you have to carry a towel around with you to keep the sweat out of your eyes.

PS: I have spent good amounts of time out in the cold, either raking and burning leaves or shoveling snow. I was raking leaves in November and December when it was really cold but we hadn't gotten any real snow yet. I think our first good snow was after the 1st of the year. It sucks mostly because it's hard on my back. It's nothing like doing yard work in a Mississippi summer.

Davian93
03-04-2015, 08:25 PM
I've done the Mojave in summer and Yakima (northern high plateau of Washington) in Feb and I'd take the Mojave any day of the week. Being out for a couple weeks in cold like that just beats you up all around. Heat sucks but as long as you stay hydrated, it's bearable.

I've done the humid heat too for the same sort of field conditions (s. Carolina, Philippines and Louisiana) and those were easier to handle than extreme cold.


For comparison, the Mojave was pushing 125 F when we were there and Yakima would hit -40 to -50 with the wind chill. And I live in VT where we regularly hit -20 before the wind chill in the winter and -50 with it.

The Philippines were almost always a very wet 100 F heat as was SC and LA.

Same with the other desert regularly hitting 120-135.

Lupusdeusest
03-04-2015, 08:34 PM
As someone who just had to live through over a week without power in the tropics (we had a cyclone come through)... I'd much rather the cold than doing that again. Both Zombie and I were nearing madness by the end of it and had to hide at a friend's place.

No air con, no fans, no breeze, and no fridge. Twenty seconds after a cold shower (no hot water either) you were back to being slick with sweat again.

At least in winter I can build a gosh darn fire.

rand
03-04-2015, 08:54 PM
I'm usually fine in the cold so long as I'm wearing enough stuff (hat, gloves, coat is pretty much it) and doing something. It's only if you're just standing still that it becomes unbearable. A few weeks ago I spent about 3 hours shoveling my driveway when the windchill was a steady -25 and with gusts around -40 and was fine.

My hands are the worst, though. If I'm not wearing gloves and even touch something outside when it's cold out, my hands will hurt like hell until I can go back inside.

But the heat doesn't really bother me much either.

Terez
03-05-2015, 12:23 AM
As someone who just had to live through over a week without power in the tropics (we had a cyclone come through)... I'd much rather the cold than doing that again. Both Zombie and I were nearing madness by the end of it and had to hide at a friend's place.

No air con, no fans, no breeze, and no fridge. Twenty seconds after a cold shower (no hot water either) you were back to being slick with sweat again.

At least in winter I can build a gosh darn fire.
That's how it was after Katrina. That week with no AC was almost as bad as losing everything I owned. We couldn't even ride around in our cars for AC because there was no gas.

yks 6nnetu hing
03-05-2015, 01:49 AM
Try being outside over night in extreme cold...those extra layers only take you so far.

this reminds me of the stories my brother tells of his army time :D he was in the... eh.. closest translation I can think of is spy-guerilla training? anyways, one of the things they had to do was be able to clear camp within 5 min of the alarm being sounded, no trace of them ever being there. Which, if it's winter and -20C to -30C means no fire to begin with, no tents either - just your sleeping bag. So, the alarm goes and first thing you do (apparently) is jump out of your sleeping bag and start banging your pants against the nearest tree so they become unfrozen enough to put on.

Although, to be fair, there can be a huge difference between wind and no wind and the perception of temperature. -20C and wind will just slice through you; whereas -30 and no wind can be quite cozy in comparison.

Morelikeunwisewoman
03-05-2015, 09:59 AM
this reminds me of the stories my brother tells of his army time :D he was in the... eh.. closest translation I can think of is spy-guerilla training? anyways, one of the things they had to do was be able to clear camp within 5 min of the alarm being sounded, no trace of them ever being there. Which, if it's winter and -20C to -30C means no fire to begin with, no tents either - just your sleeping bag. So, the alarm goes and first thing you do (apparently) is jump out of your sleeping bag and start banging your pants against the nearest tree so they become unfrozen enough to put on.

Although, to be fair, there can be a huge difference between wind and no wind and the perception of temperature. -20C and wind will just slice through you; whereas -30 and no wind can be quite cozy in comparison.

I love how topics can just veer off here. :)

I think its funny people are arguing over which is better- Extreme heat or cold? Either will kill you. In the last few years I have dealt with patients coming in to hospital after freezing to death or near death(frostbite is nasty) and only a few months later people have come in suffering from heat stroke. One homeless guy had both!(not at same time)

It is important to say that heat stroke is a killer. and it can occur a lot faster than people think. It is also incredibly difficult to reverse the effects.

Davian93
03-05-2015, 11:57 AM
That's how it was after Katrina. That week with no AC was almost as bad as losing everything I owned. We couldn't even ride around in our cars for AC because there was no gas.

We didnt have AC in any of the hot places I was at...I'd imagine Mindaneo and even Louisiana were similar if not hotter. I get what you're saying on the "comfort" level but on the survivability level, its easier to handle than frostbite and extreme cold.

Davian93
03-05-2015, 12:00 PM
this reminds me of the stories my brother tells of his army time :D he was in the... eh.. closest translation I can think of is spy-guerilla training? anyways, one of the things they had to do was be able to clear camp within 5 min of the alarm being sounded, no trace of them ever being there. Which, if it's winter and -20C to -30C means no fire to begin with, no tents either - just your sleeping bag. So, the alarm goes and first thing you do (apparently) is jump out of your sleeping bag and start banging your pants against the nearest tree so they become unfrozen enough to put on.

Although, to be fair, there can be a huge difference between wind and no wind and the perception of temperature. -20C and wind will just slice through you; whereas -30 and no wind can be quite cozy in comparison.

Protip: Always keep the clothes in the bag with you...otherwise, it really, really sucks when you ahve to get out and put them on.

Also, you can never ever wear the clothes in the bag as the bag won't function properly. You should basically be naked in the sleeping bag in extreme cold. We had triple layer bags that were good down to -40 (F or C its the same) and it really sucked to get out of them in the morning...even putting that first layer on inside the bag first. I agree on the wind too. A bad wind can basically be disabling if your skin is covered. Try doing certain things without gloves on in the cold. Your hands stop functioning in literally a couple min at most. To Start a Fire by Jack London comes to mind there. I never understood that story until I dealt with that type of cold.

Davian93
03-05-2015, 12:02 PM
I love how topics can just veer off here. :)

I think its funny people are arguing over which is better- Extreme heat or cold? Either will kill you. In the last few years I have dealt with patients coming in to hospital after freezing to death or near death(frostbite is nasty) and only a few months later people have come in suffering from heat stroke. One homeless guy had both!(not at same time)

It is important to say that heat stroke is a killer. and it can occur a lot faster than people think. It is also incredibly difficult to reverse the effects.

Yes...most emphatically YES. Once the body gets above 105-106, death can happen very very quickly...and its really hard to reverse the damage in time. The brain doesnt do well with that type of heat.

fionwe1987
03-05-2015, 02:49 PM
Yes...most emphatically YES. Once the body gets above 105-106, death can happen very very quickly...and its really hard to reverse the damage in time. The brain doesnt do well with that type of heat.

That depends. I lived for a long time in south India, where you regularly have that kind of weather in summer. You definitely have to hydrate a lot and cover your head if you mean to be out for a long time, but even if you fail to do those, you can survive outside longer than you can unprotected in the kind of cold weather we're talking about.

Davian93
03-05-2015, 02:58 PM
That depends. I lived for a long time in south India, where you regularly have that kind of weather in summer. You definitely have to hydrate a lot and cover your head if you mean to be out for a long time, but even if you fail to do those, you can survive outside longer than you can unprotected in the kind of cold weather we're talking about.

Sorry, I meant internal body temperature, not outside temps. Once your body temp gets to that level, its quite a rapid downhill descent for cognitive brain functions and other body functions.

fionwe1987
03-05-2015, 03:55 PM
Sorry, I meant internal body temperature, not outside temps. Once your body temp gets to that level, its quite a rapid downhill descent for cognitive brain functions and other body functions.

Oh definitely, but that only happens usually due to fever. You need to stand in direct midafternoon sunlight for hours to get there due to external heat in most places. You'll need to be pretty crazily dehydrated, and be in a place with no wind to cool you down.

Davian93
03-05-2015, 07:28 PM
Oh definitely, but that only happens usually due to fever. You need to stand in direct midafternoon sunlight for hours to get there due to external heat in most places. You'll need to be pretty crazily dehydrated, and be in a place with no wind to cool you down.

Or just being engaged in very strenuous activity in ultra hot weather...once the body overheats (i.e. you stop sweating and enter into heat stroke) it gets bad fast. I've seen it happen and its a scary sight.

fionwe1987
03-05-2015, 08:18 PM
Or just being engaged in very strenuous activity in ultra hot weather...once the body overheats (i.e. you stop sweating and enter into heat stroke) it gets bad fast. I've seen it happen and its a scary sight.

Yup. Always carry water. Or better yet, dunk your head into a stream or well. That's what farmers do, in those places.

Lupusdeusest
03-06-2015, 08:04 PM
The worst part about the heat was actually the distinct lack of snuggles.


Snuggles make the world go round.