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View Full Version : Apparently Diesel cars aren't "cost effective"


Sinistrum
09-22-2008, 05:23 PM
http://finance.yahoo.com/loans/article/105735/The-65-mpg-Ford-the-U.S.-Can%27t-Have

I don't buy that excuse personally. I think if you offered American's 65MPG, even if it runs on diesel, that they'd buy it up in a heartbeat. Just another case of the American auto industry resisting efforts to increase fuel efficiency.

Sei'taer
09-22-2008, 05:27 PM
http://finance.yahoo.com/loans/article/105735/The-65-mpg-Ford-the-U.S.-Can%27t-Have

I don't buy that excuse personally. I think if you offered American's 65MPG, even if it runs on diesel, that they'd buy it up in a heartbeat. Just another case of the American auto industry resisting efforts to increase fuel efficiency.

I read something about this the other day. I'll have to find it when i get home, but it was something to do with federal regulations wouldn't allow the car to be sold here. I don't remember if it was the diesel part or some other issue with the car other than the engine/fuel...I hopefully have it in my history at home, so I'll post it if I can find it.

Davian93
09-22-2008, 05:30 PM
On another note: Oil jumped $20 a barrel today just because of the economic situation...blatant speculation at its finest. I cant wait to see gas prices jump accordingly.

Birgitte
09-22-2008, 05:53 PM
Interesting fact... Even with the huge demand increase, gas is still cheaper in the hurricane zone than anywhere north of it. (True, this is just what my communications professor told me, but he's kind of obsessed with checking sources to the point where he doesn't trust things that he can only find in our textbook, so...).

RogueSavior
09-22-2008, 06:44 PM
Sei'Taer... representatives of the Ford Company say the only reason they aren't selling it in the United States is because of the cost of importing their engines from England, and the subesequent price hikes 'necessary' putting it out of a 'competitive range' or bullshit bingo fodder very near to those words.
They could build them in Mexico, but that would require 350million dollars worth of a new plant, and they 'don't think they could sell enough to make up the loss' in North America.

A.) for 29,000 (over the 'not competitive' price mentioned in the article, even) I'm sure that many Americans would capitalize on having to fill up their cars anywhere from a third to half as often, even if that gas cost an extra dollar because of taxes on diesel

A., subpoint a) - Why is Diesel taxed so differently? From my understanding, diesel burns cleaner than other gasoline. Taxing diesel separately only causes prices at stores to increase, which causes a variety of things ending in inflation (you all took econ classes. If you don't know the way this works, think cost of living increases to salary and the cost of rising salary on prices in a continuous loop. If you still don't know, ask my mother. She's the business teacher.) This, does not, make, sense. (Like Chewbacca the Wookie living on the planet Endor, yes. Southpark, for the uninformed)

B.) You need a point B? Long run (which, considering you bought the car with a loan, most likely, you're dealing with here), you save a TON of money than by buying the Toyota at this price.

C.) American engineers are clearly not the lazy ones. It's the Engineers' bosses. Makes me feel a little better about my country.

D.) Ford Motor Company spends a billion dollars a month? And the Lions are still that bad? Joking aside - what's 350 million spread out over the construction period of the factory in THAT pool?

E.) I officially announce my candidacy for the office of President of the United States in 2024. I rescind my gloriously noble contribution to my country's well-being if the American Auto-Industry does not quit it's bitching about it's 'superior' engineers not being able to meet demands foreign engineers ALREADY meet.

F.) On second thought, that's not going to happen. I resign from consideration for the Office of President of the United States in 2024.

Terez
09-22-2008, 06:51 PM
Interesting fact... Even with the huge demand increase, gas is still cheaper in the hurricane zone than anywhere north of it. (True, this is just what my communications professor told me, but he's kind of obsessed with checking sources to the point where he doesn't trust things that he can only find in our textbook, so...).
That's partly to do with laws against price gouging. Also partly to do with the fact that gas is always cheaper down south...

Birgitte
09-22-2008, 07:08 PM
Anywhere north... Not significantly north. Even a couple miles north of the Houston area.

Weird Harold
09-23-2008, 01:04 AM
http://finance.yahoo.com/loans/article/105735/The-65-mpg-Ford-the-U.S.-Can%27t-Have

I don't buy that excuse personally. I think if you offered American's 65MPG, even if it runs on diesel, that they'd buy it up in a heartbeat. Just another case of the American auto industry resisting efforts to increase fuel efficiency.
If it looked like this and only had a 1.6L engine -- Turbo diesel or otherwise -- Americans won't buy it.

http://images.businessweek.com/story/08/600/0904_mz_ecocar.jpg

For what it would cost to get US EPA and DOT certification as well as the engine importation problem, I don't think Americans would buy that car for $20K+ no matter what fuel it runs on.

Davian93
09-23-2008, 07:38 AM
I like the way its looks...just not for $25K...$15 K I would do though.

Gilshalos Sedai
09-23-2008, 08:45 AM
A compact car that costs as much as my Extended Cab F-150? Puh-lease. I wouldn't save THAT much in gas.

Hopper
09-23-2008, 09:33 AM
Gil -

Isn't it a law it Texas that you must own at least one extended cab pickup per household anyhow?

Gilshalos Sedai
09-23-2008, 09:36 AM
Don't forget two or more dogs, a shotgun, and a 10-gallon hat. We're still looking for the shotgun and a hat that'll fit Bryan's head.

Frenzy
09-23-2008, 12:57 PM
Are you saying that Bryan has a fat head? :p Maybe we should start calling him Bonk...

Here's an interesting op-ed comparing gas, hybrid, and diesel cars. http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=435228 One of the probles with diesels is the particulate matter they spew. One of my coworkers is involved in putting those filter/converter things on all the diesels in the City's fleet, and he told me that they don't work as well as they should. In areas where PM air pollution is a problem, more diesels won't help make the planet prettier. i don't see people flocking to big ports like Houston, Oakland, Rotterdam, etc. to take in the fresh air...

Gilshalos Sedai
09-23-2008, 01:09 PM
Aw, c'mon, we have GREAT air quality! ~ignores the brown band of smog on the horizon~

Weird Harold
09-23-2008, 01:16 PM
I like the way its looks...just not for $25K...$15 K I would do though.
Which is pretty much the whole point: Ford can't make it cheap enough for Americans (partly because of DOT and EPA certification requirements) so you won't get a chance to buy one at $15K, 'cause Ford can't make any money on them at that price -- which pretty much is a textbook definition of "not cost-effective."

Frenzy
09-23-2008, 01:41 PM
call my crazy, but i really don't think you should have to chew your air before you breathe it.

Davian93
09-23-2008, 01:54 PM
25K is just too much for a compact...especially when I could get a Toyota Yaris for 13K and they get close to 40 mpg. It would be years before I saw an economic advantage to it. Right now I drive an 04 Accord V6 and I get around 27 mpg (30+mpg on highway) on an average tank...that's plenty for me and doesnt justify the price of a Prius (which I looked into a few months back). I'm as green as you come (except for kooks anyway) and I can't justify the cost of most hybrids yet. I do sort all of my trash into about 20 different recyling piles though (which is annoying as hell sometimes and NOT mandatory even in Vermont). I do my best basically.