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Davian93
06-24-2015, 11:27 AM
Alabama Governor Removes Confederate Flag (http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2015/06/confederate_flag_removed_from.html)

About damned time. Up next, getting Mississippi to remove it from their state flag and getting the rest of the old rebellion states to remove it as well.

GonzoTheGreat
06-24-2015, 11:41 AM
Alabama Governor Removes Confederate Flag (http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2015/06/confederate_flag_removed_from.html)
Where's Ghadaffi when you need him?
I'm sure he would have been willing to produce either a ringing endorsement or a blistering condemnation of this decision. I'm not sure how he would have reacted, though, but it would have been interesting to find out.

Kimon
06-24-2015, 12:03 PM
Alabama Governor Removes Confederate Flag (http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2015/06/confederate_flag_removed_from.html)

About damned time. Up next, getting Mississippi to remove it from their state flag and getting the rest of the old rebellion states to remove it as well.

Ole Miss did finally get rid of their cracker mascot and discourage the hicks from bringing Confederate flags to their football games. Still think it would have been cool if they had actually had the courage to go with the Fightin' Admiral Ackbars instead of just a bear. Heck Ackbar would have even fit with their old theme.

http://www.wired.com/2010/09/ole-miss-admiral-ackbar/

Isabel
06-24-2015, 01:16 PM
Very good:)

The Unreasoner
06-24-2015, 04:25 PM
I just think it's hilarious that not a single 'heritage respecting' southerner realizes that the stars and bars is not actually the flag of the Confederacy. And even if it was...it's a flag of traitors, weaklings, sinners, and freedom-suppressors...all things I assume they would claim to hate.

Southpaw2012
06-24-2015, 06:18 PM
Hopefully now they can find ways to celebrate southern heritage without referencing the slaver / civil war aspect. There's nothing wrong with celebrating the southern heritage, because there are/were many great aspects to it, but they can do it without using symbols of treason and hate.

Terez
06-24-2015, 06:54 PM
I just think it's hilarious that not a single 'heritage respecting' southerner realizes that the stars and bars is not actually the flag of the Confederacy.
Most of them do know that. They seem to think it's some kind of argument against what it represents.

Apologies to anyone on Facebook who is getting annoyed by my arguing on this subject. Just before this fight broke out, I made the mistake of following a few extra MS news outlets. I now follow, in addition to WLOX (hometown news station) and The Sun Herald (hometown newspaper), also WDAM (college town news station...in Hattiesburg, seat of Forrest County, named after guess who...), WAPT (Jackson news station), and The Clarion Ledger (Jackson newspaper). As you can imagine, there have been multiple posts about the flag per day, from each.

Kimon
06-24-2015, 07:09 PM
I just think it's hilarious that not a single 'heritage respecting' southerner realizes that the stars and bars is not actually the flag of the Confederacy. And even if it was...it's a flag of traitors, weaklings, sinners, and freedom-suppressors...all things I assume they would claim to hate.

The Stars and Bars was the original Confederate flag, the one that we all are thinking of as the Confederate flag is Lee's Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. If I recall correctly, part of the problem may simply be that none of them, apparently even at the time, liked the Stars and Bars flag, which is why it was their flag only from 1861-63. Their second and third flags were apparently iterations of Lee's Battle Flag. I wouldn't be surprised if there are two other factors at play here though - focusing on Lee's flag allows them to focus on the only positive element of their misguided rebellion, Lee's prowess on the battlefield. The second is a bit more silly, but probably nonetheless a legitimate factor as well - the Dukes of Hazard.

Still long since time to take down any variants on that flag. If they want to erect some symbol to honor their rebellion, just put up another statue of Lee or Stonewall. Monument Avenue in Richmond has statues of both of those men, and even the more controversial Davis as well. Even a statue of Davis is less controversial though than the flag. And let's be honest, Unreasoner, when you think of their flag, you, and all the rest of us, are picturing Lee's flag, not the Stars and Bars.

Terez
06-24-2015, 07:45 PM
The Stars and Bars was the original Confederate flag, the one that we all are thinking of as the Confederate flag is Lee's Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. If I recall correctly, part of the problem may simply be that none of them, apparently even at the time, liked the Stars and Bars flag, which is why it was their flag only from 1861-63. Their second and third flags were apparently iterations of Lee's Battle Flag. I wouldn't be surprised if there are two other factors at play here though - focusing on Lee's flag allows them to focus on the only positive element of their misguided rebellion, Lee's prowess on the battlefield. The second is a bit more silly, but probably nonetheless a legitimate factor as well - the Dukes of Hazard.
lol. That is far from a legitimate factor. The battle flag has been part of Mississippi's flag since the late 19th Century, 1894 if I recall. It was was used by the Dixiecrats as a protest against civil rights reform long before the Dukes existed. It has been the only commonly-recognized flag of the Confederacy since 1948.

Ivhon
06-24-2015, 07:52 PM
The Stars and Bars was the original Confederate flag, the one that we all are thinking of as the Confederate flag is Lee's Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. If I recall correctly, part of the problem may simply be that none of them, apparently even at the time, liked the Stars and Bars flag, which is why it was their flag only from 1861-63. Their second and third flags were apparently iterations of Lee's Battle Flag. I wouldn't be surprised if there are two other factors at play here though - focusing on Lee's flag allows them to focus on the only positive element of their misguided rebellion, Lee's prowess on the battlefield. The second is a bit more silly, but probably nonetheless a legitimate factor as well - the Dukes of Hazard.

Still long since time to take down any variants on that flag. If they want to erect some symbol to honor their rebellion, just put up another statue of Lee or Stonewall. Monument Avenue in Richmond has statues of both of those men, and even the more controversial Davis as well. Even a statue of Davis is less controversial though than the flag. And let's be honest, Unreasoner, when you think of their flag, you, and all the rest of us, are picturing Lee's flag, not the Stars and Bars.

I have greater respect for Rommel than for Lee. I don't understand why there are monuments to traitors and slavers on all of the capital grounds in the South. The Confederacy treasonously rebelled against the Union (happens frequently throughout history) to preserve an economic system built on the subjugation and oppression of human beings who happened to be easily identified by the color of their skin. They lost the war. While there are always brave and courageous soldiers on both sides of any and every conflict ever waged, the cause of the treason was immoral. Perhaps if the Confederates had won, I would be sitting on my veranda drinking a mint julip brought to me by one of my several slaves spouting off a much different narrative. Thankfully, they didn't.

It baffles me that the veneration of traitors has been tolerated by the federal government for 150 years. So long as there are monuments to traitors on government grounds, flags of treason celebrated and flown over government buildings or streets and buildings branded with the names of traitors - particularly when there are no or few such monuments, streets or buildings honoring the victors - the clear message remains that the loyalties are still bound to the Confederacy. That hope of the "South Rising Again" is a daily reminder. That allegiances have not changed. Lessons have not been learned. Implicitly, that a return to subjugation and slavery is the true hope. This, to me, is intolerable.

Davian93
06-24-2015, 07:55 PM
Lee is quite the tragic figure...he tied himself to what he knew was a tainted and lost cause out of sheer loyalty.

Sad.

I'd say he was a better commander than Rommel too for that matter.

Southpaw2012
06-24-2015, 11:54 PM
Lee was also related to George Washington.. Kinda weird to think about.

GonzoTheGreat
06-25-2015, 04:10 AM
The second is a bit more silly, but probably nonetheless a legitimate factor as well - the Dukes of Hazard.Isn't it ironic?
No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States ...

Davian93
06-25-2015, 08:37 AM
Lee was also related to George Washington.. Kinda weird to think about.

Not really...all of the old Virginia gentry were pretty much interbred with each other. They were as close as our country ever really got to an English style landed gentry.

Daekyras
06-25-2015, 05:07 PM
Not really...all of the old Virginia gentry were pretty much interbred with each other. They were as close as our country ever really got to an English style landed gentry.

Yes, the "old" Virginians. No inbred families there now....


also, wasn't familiar with the "stars and bars" name so looked it up. I never realised that was the name for that flag but am I the only one who instantly thinks of Chile when they see it? It just says Chile to me. Even though they are not that similar.

Rand al'Fain
06-25-2015, 05:54 PM
Yes, the "old" Virginians. No inbred families there now....


also, wasn't familiar with the "stars and bars" name so looked it up. I never realised that was the name for that flag but am I the only one who instantly thinks of Chile when they see it? It just says Chile to me. Even though they are not that similar.

Well, after the Civil War, a number of rebels went/fled to several South American countries, primarily Brazil.

Davian93
06-25-2015, 08:11 PM
Well, after the Civil War, a number of rebels went/fled to several South American countries, primarily Brazil.

South America...where losers go to lick their wounds. And avoid Israeli bounty hunters depending on the era.

GonzoTheGreat
06-26-2015, 04:39 AM
Hopefully now they can find ways to celebrate southern heritage without referencing the slaver / civil war aspect. There's nothing wrong with celebrating the southern heritage, because there are/were many great aspects to it, but they can do it without using symbols of treason and hate.
What, apart from slavery (and racism, but they had plenty of that in the North too), is "southern heritage"?

From what I've read of it, it was only slavery that united the southern states; otherwise they were just as distinct from each other as they were from the other states in the USA.

Frenzy
06-27-2015, 01:17 AM
The accents. The polite charm. The food!! But mostly the shared misery of living where it's so frickin' humid.

Now pass me some pecan pie and sweet tea.

GonzoTheGreat
06-27-2015, 04:04 AM
So they aren't even American enough to eat apple pie?
No wonder they decided to scarper.

Ivhon
06-27-2015, 02:03 PM
There is a lot that is wonderful and not hate based about southern culture

Bluegrass
Jazz
The Blues
Rock and Roll
Bourbon
The food - especially pecan pie
BBQ
A thick Charleston accent is heaven on the ears
SEC football
Manners, bless y'all's hearts - seriously Southern Hospitality is a real thing


Of course most of it is largely to entirely appropriated from slave/black culture.

Davian93
06-27-2015, 08:24 PM
The accents. The polite charm. The food!! But mostly the shared misery of living where it's so frickin' humid.

Now pass me some pecan pie and sweet tea.

Southern food is really good. It'll put you in an early grave but some of their regional cuisine (Soul food, Cajun, BBQ, etc) is really freaking good.


Sweet tea is also really good but its also a Mid-Atlantic thing so its not purely Southern as its huge in PA & NJ too...neither of which are southern states by any stretch of the imagination.

Davian93
06-27-2015, 08:33 PM
There is a lot that is wonderful and not hate based about southern culture

Bluegrass
Jazz
The Blues
Rock and Roll
Bourbon
The food - especially pecan pie
BBQ
A thick Charleston accent is heaven on the ears
SEC football
Manners, bless y'all's hearts - seriously Southern Hospitality is a real thing


Of course most of it is largely to entirely appropriated from slave/black culture.

Charleston is one of the cities on the very short list of "southern cities that Dav would live in".

In no particular order:

Asheville, NC
Charleston
Savannah

Can't really think of any others.

GonzoTheGreat
06-28-2015, 03:35 AM
There is a lot that is wonderful and not hate based about southern cultureI'll go through part of your list:

Bluegrass - originates with slaves
Jazz - originates with slaves
The Blues - invented by slaves to express their happiness with their lot
Rock and Roll - a combination of the previous music styles, then stolen by whites because it could be lucrative
Bourbon - French, obviously
The food - especially pecan pie - already mentioned
BBQ - that's Australian, mate

Davian93
06-28-2015, 02:30 PM
BBQ - that's Australian, mate

~shakes head~

No.


And, to be fair, bluegrass and other southern music forms also have influences from the heavy contingent of Scotch-Irish and regular Irish that brought their traditional music over with them when they emigrated to Appalachia. Lots of Southern culture is a great fusion African, Islander, Native and White cultures....and most of their problems come from that same combination of cultures.

Ivhon
06-28-2015, 06:31 PM
I'll go through part of your list:

BBQ - that's Australian, mate

Naw, son, you got it backwards. There's been BBQ way longer than there's been Australia

GonzoTheGreat
06-29-2015, 04:34 AM
Naw, son, you got it backwards. There's been BBQ way longer than there's been Australia
That was then undoubtedly done by proto-Australians.

Rand al'Fain
06-29-2015, 11:37 PM
That was then undoubtedly done by proto-Australians.

Giant lizards?
http://www.outdoordesign.com.au/images/uploads/2013082313772387168931.jpg

GonzoTheGreat
06-30-2015, 04:04 AM
If such a one claimed to have invented the BBQ, would you deny it to his face?
I think not, which proves that I'm right, doesn't it?

Daekyras
06-30-2015, 04:15 AM
Bluegrass.

Dav mentioned this above but bluegrass really does have a strong connection with "trad" music.

It is a common fusion here in Ireland. The two blend really well together and if, like me, you have gotten quite tired of trad the two combined bring a freshness that is very welcoming.

And I've been down south in the states a few times and found it a lovely place. Very friendly. It can be a little humid though. Irish don't do well in high humidity!!

Ivhon
06-30-2015, 12:32 PM
Not sure why I put the Slave connection on Bluegrass. Copy/paste error.

The Unreasoner
07-09-2015, 12:43 PM
http://i.onionstatic.com/clickhole/1572/8/original/640.jpg

DahLliA
07-09-2015, 12:56 PM
http://i.onionstatic.com/clickhole/1572/8/original/640.jpg

I don't get it. Care to explain?

The Unreasoner
07-09-2015, 04:49 PM
I don't get it. Care to explain?
Lol. No.

It's from Clickhole (the Onion's Buzzfeed parody). It doesn't make sense to me either, and I doubt it's supposed to. It's from an article titled "This Cartoon Does A Bad Job Of Explaining What Privilege Is"

I actually meant to post it elsewhere. Here's the one I meant to post:
All my life, I was an ardent supporter of the Confederate flag. I defended it as a symbol of Southern heritage and self-determination. I thought those who decried it were dismissive and narrow-minded, driven by petty political correctness and partisanship. But times change, and so do people, and I’m writing here to inform you that I now take scuba diving lessons.
Not long ago, you might’ve seen me in my car with a Confederate flag bumper sticker proudly stamped on, unwilling to hear anyone who said I should remove it. But that was before I started scuba classes. These days, you’re more likely to find me in a wetsuit, breathing mask, and fins, exploring the sea in a safe, recreational capacity.
It took me 42 years to reach this point. My parents were true Southerners, blue-collar workers in rural Mississippi who taught me to revere the rebel banner. They were the kind of folks who never went scuba diving, and for a long while, that’s who I was too.
I never stopped to consider the many troubling things the Confederate flag stands for, hatred and racial intolerance foremost among them. To me, it simply stood for the South, nothing more. As I have learned, though, “scuba” stands for something too: Self-Contained Underwater Breathing Apparatus.
I have truly come a long way. I’m having a great time at my scuba diving classes.
The classes are once a week for eight weeks, and so far, our dives have been limited to the swimming pool at a local community college. But in two weeks, we will get to try diving at a nearby lake, and I am very excited. We have been learning things like entry and exit techniques, proper ear pressure equalization, safety pre-checks, and how to clear our masks.
We could talk for ages about the true meaning of the Confederate flag and whether it’s justified to continue supporting it, but at the end of the day, all I know is that scuba diving is a fun means of staying active and seeing the world in a new way: the underwater way. That’s something that everyone—whether they’re liberals or conservatives or Northerners or Southerners—can agree with.
Now, if you’ll pardon me, I reckon it’s time to go for a dive!

DahLliA
07-10-2015, 04:16 AM
Lol. No.

It's from Clickhole (the Onion's Buzzfeed parody). It doesn't make sense to me either, and I doubt it's supposed to. It's from an article titled "This Cartoon Does A Bad Job Of Explaining What Privilege Is"

I actually meant to post it elsewhere. Here's the one I meant to post:

Aha. So I spent all those minutes trying to make sense of something that doesn't :p

And diving can certainly show you that issues have previously unseen depths.