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View Full Version : Male channelers in Seanchan held lands- Egwene/Rand's big mistake


fionwe1987
07-17-2015, 02:37 AM
I was thinking about the future of channelers in Randland. A lot of their futures, we got hints for. Egwene set up an alliance of female channelers, and this is obviously going to hugely benefit all four organizations.

1)The Kin have Caemlyn, and Elayne gave the first hints of channelers and their services entering the world economy. It is highly likely Tear, Illian, Arad Doman and the Borderlands will soon follow suite, especially given that no one is likely to trust the Seanchan anytime soon. If the Kin follow her advice and start marrying, then not only will this increase the number of channelers long term, it will make them more connected to society.

2)The White Tower is already swelling with Novices. Their actions in the Last Battle, along with the opening of the Novice Book and Traveling will only mean even more women will come to them. Two Queens of the land are widely known as Aes Sedai, one carrying the Dragon's children, the other his partner in Shayol Ghul, also increasing the prestige of the Tower.

3) The Wise Ones will be good. They'll have access to WT knowledge, and the more sensible WT initiates will truly come to value their time among the Wise Ones. They will probably eventually work a lot like the Grey Ajah, and with them too, given the Aiel's duties. Over centuries, I suppose we can expect a merger, but even barring that, increased closeness is all but assured. Cadsuane was as eager for that as Egwene, so that part of her legacy stays.

4) The Sea Folk are likely to end up dealing a lot more with the Kin. Their primary income from trading will be hugely impacted once the Kin open shop in Caemlyn. I expect these people to be in hot competition. They do have great knowledge of manipulating the weather, and I see that role expanding.

But what of the male channelers?

1) The Asha'man won't have it easy. They have ties to the White Tower, which some in the WT at least will seek to exploit. They have ties to Andor, which Elayne has already considered exploiting. But they're also going to be massively swelling in numbers, especially given Logain's actions in the LB. And some in the White Tower are likely to be less intrusive and more cooperative. I expect a horde of Browns to decamp to the Black Tower to study saidin the moment they can manage to get permission. Since the BT has always allowed marriage, they'll be well integrated to society. Eventually, they may even have a Kin like organization to retire to. Their challenges are going to be many, but they'll be good.

2) I expect the Wise Ones (and maybe the Sea Folk) to be the first organization to have male channelers integrated. I doubt they'll want their men joining the BT while keeping the women from the WT.

But what the hell happens to male channelers born in Seanchan lands? The women have some measure of choice. Per Egwene's terms with Tuon, they can go to the White Tower. Or they could choose to become damane, which I suspect some might as Seanchan culture becomes more influential. But what happens to the men? There is no real male a'dam. So far as I know, no one left any with the Seanchan. Sure, some damane may figure it out, but more than likely they'll just do what they've always done: kill male channelers. The Asha'man are hardly likely to be okay with this, and I suspect over time none of the channeling factions are going to find this acceptable. It bugs me that in their respective treaties with Tuon, neither Egwene nor Rand thought of this, though their oversight is more likely a consequence of the authors' oversight.

Thoughts?

GonzoTheGreat
07-17-2015, 04:52 AM
Any man in the Seanchan lands who suspects that he may be able to learn to channel can simply go to the Black Tower and ask to be tested. This will happen for a few years or so, and then Mat will convince the Seanchans to change their policy radically.
The BT in Seanchan will probably get a deal sort of somewhat similar to what the Ogier have, where they are halfway independent but nominally subject to the Empress. The exact words of which will be formulated by Mat, who by that time will be thoroughly fed up with both sides in the negotiations.

fionwe1987
07-17-2015, 09:06 AM
Any man in the Seanchan lands who suspects that he may be able to learn to channel can simply go to the Black Tower and ask to be tested. This will happen for a few years or so, and then Mat will convince the Seanchans to change their policy radically.
What about those with the spark? Their first channeling needn't be a quiet thing.

The BT in Seanchan will probably get a deal sort of somewhat similar to what the Ogier have, where they are halfway independent but nominally subject to the Empress. The exact words of which will be formulated by Mat, who by that time will be thoroughly fed up with both sides in the negotiations.
I really don't see things evolving so quickly.

GonzoTheGreat
07-17-2015, 10:35 AM
What about those with the spark? Their first channeling needn't be a quiet thing.
True. Then again, that's what evolution is all about: survival of the quietest.

I really don't see things evolving so quickly.Maybe not. On the other hand, power is a rather important thing to the Seanchan. Not having male channelers would be a very obvious liability, and when they decide to patch something like that up, the Seanchan can move quickly.

fionwe1987
07-17-2015, 03:35 PM
True. Then again, that's what evolution is all about: survival of the quietest.
Funny. My point, though, is that the Asha'man are hardly going to be happy to hear of bumbling sparkers being killed.

Maybe not. On the other hand, power is a rather important thing to the Seanchan. Not having male channelers would be a very obvious liability, and when they decide to patch something like that up, the Seanchan can move quickly.
Not true. They know the a'dam prevents links by now, and they know the enormous advantages of linking. I don't see them giving up a'dam.

GonzoTheGreat
07-18-2015, 04:19 AM
Not true. They know the a'dam prevents links by now, and they know the enormous advantages of linking. I don't see them giving up a'dam.
But they haven't seen many examples of where a using a link is actually necessary, and not using it is definitely inferior.
They did quite well on the battlefield without links, so they won't think of it as being a necessity there.

However, using links it is possible to make bigger gateways. That means that linking is essential to getting efficient high volume trade. Consequently, not linking will leave your economy behind, and make the Seanchan relatively poor.

Using links it is possible to do far more efficient construction jobs. Thus, teams of male and female channelers can work together with Ogier to really improve cities. Living in outdated and third rate cities will not sit well with Seanchan pride.

Using links it is possible for Healers to do things that damane can only be amazed at. Having to go beg at the White or Black Tower for help won't be something Seanchan nobles will be happy with.