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Terez
12-12-2015, 10:50 PM
Now that it has been revealed (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=8767) that Taimandred killed Asmodean, and the Encyclopedia is out, I no longer feel bound to keep any secrets from the notes. And there are a ton of interesting details. I want to share them all but the problem is that I'm bound by copyright laws for this stuff so I have to summarize a lot of stuff and only quote when RJ's exact wording is crucial.

I'll start with the file that everyone's already seen the first page (http://www.dragonmount.com/index.php/News/book-news/a-look-at-robert-jordans-notes-r751) of, and the beggar/hot iron viewings I mentioned last year when I was going through the notes. The file is called "Notes On Books Two Through Six" and it's found in Box 4 Folder 2 at Addlestone.

After the introduction seen on page one (plus a little more along the same lines), RJ goes through a list of numbered plot points which he calls a "List of Incidents". I will summarize these here, and I will use quotes when I copy the exact words RJ used. My comments inside quotes are in square brackets; when RJ uses them, I change them to parentheses.

RJ outlines the beginning of the story which is completely different from what he eventually used. He saved his "shipwrecked" idea for his next planned series, Infinity of Heaven.

1. Rand was going to be shipwrecked "on the coast of a Blight". Note the singular: at this point in his planning, there were several Blights scattered across the land. This Blight surrounded a land that was totally isolated from the outside world. He used this idea later for pre-Luthair Seanchan: the Aes Sedai were the rulers of the city-states in this land.

Rand falls in love with one of the rulers' daughters, who is "a general in her own right". He realizes at some point in this arc that he is the Dragon Reborn. While in that land, he ends up fighting the Dark One again, and he exposes himself as a channeler, so he has to flee all the Aes Sedai, though his girl follows him and her army helps him take the Stone of Stair. (Stair became Tear, in case it wasn't obvious.)

2. RJ is vague here: "Time with the Sea Folk." He then goes on to describe what the Sea Folk are like. It's clear that, at this point, he hadn't put much thought into them at all. It also seems that he intended them to play a more important role than they did.

3. Rand's first ally after he declares himself the Dragon is Morgase, with whom he has a brief affair. This causes Galad (her son) to go over to the Shadow. Rand has some difficulties with Morgase that are reminiscent of the Daes Dae'mar issues he has later on in Tear and Cairhien. Morgase is not Elayne's mother (see below).

4. Stone of Stair is described, and the as-yet-unnamed Callandor. At this point, the prophecy "says that the Dragon will bring women bearing swords to take the fortress, and that he will remove the sword. Some think this means the Maidens of the Spear, but only a handful any longer give credence to this for a Blight separates stair from the Barrens [Aiel Waste], and few humans will willingly enter a Blight."

5. Describes an early invasion of Trollocs from the northern Blight, and how Rand gets blamed for the aftermath. This seems reminiscent of the Shadowspawn invasion during Hawkwing's time.

6. Rand is going to "heal" the male half of the Power, about which many people will not be thrilled.

7. Full quote here: "After his disastrous attempt to destroy Sha'tan, Rand is taken prisoner by the Queen of the land where he was raised, Elyn's mother. The queen wants to kill him, but Elyn manages to get the sentence commuted. As a price for this, though, Elyn is forced to pronounce the alternate sentence. Rand is blinded by hot irons and turned loose to wander as a beggar. This is the lowest point for him, when he feels that everyone, even Elyn, has abandoned him. (NOTE: he will regain his sight later.)"

8. "A sojourn with the Aiel." RJ goes on to describe the Aiel in great detail, mostly details that are already known: appearance, hardiness and endurance, role of clans and warrior societies, Maidens, their identity as People of the Dragon (which is used pejoratively by outsiders), their 2nd Age history (serving "Jeran Telamon" rather than the Aes Sedai generally). All of this is thought out in recognizable detail, even the columns ter'angreal (which was described here as a "circle of stones"), but one significant bit is different: "They call themselves the Thirteen Clans, but only twelve clans are known to outsiders." Also, RJ originally thought that the clan chiefs would be somehow Compelled to stay silent about what they saw in the ter'angreal, but that Rand would somehow find a way to break that Compulsion. Finally, Tigraine was originally "Morgase's sister who, refusing an unwanted marriage to Maric, fled into the Barrens."

9. Returning from the Barrens (Waste) Rand finds that he has more supporters now, mostly common people, but some Aes Sedai too. He goes off to defeat the Dark One.

10. "At the very end Rand will engineer his own disappearance, accompanied by some of his friends. He will leave behind another legend: that the Dragon sleeps, awaiting mankind's hour of need to rise once more."

RJ closes the file with a few paragraphs on how he intends to weave Arthur, Thor, and many other myths into a story that could conceivably be the original of all those myths, and how many of the myths in the story would obviously be distorted stories of events in the real world. Closing paragraph:

"The main thrust of the story will not be how fact becomes legend, however. Rather it will explore the nature of good and evil, of free will and the duty owed by the individual to humanity as a whole, of why and how mankind makes the choice to oppose evil, and the harm that can be done in the name of good."

Kimon
12-12-2015, 11:18 PM
Has there been a definitive explanation from Harriet or Maria on why they didn't decide to include some or all of this in the Companion? I certainly don't seem to be the only one who finds this far more interesting than what they did publish as the Companion.

Terez
12-12-2015, 11:37 PM
The Encyclopedia was always meant to be canon, so this kind of thing wouldn't have been appropriate to include.

fionwe1987
12-13-2015, 12:32 AM
I have to say once again that the idea of Rand fighting Shai'tan unsuccessfully is hugely alluring to me. I think the biggest sense of slowness in the middle books could have been countered, and the price of Rand's darkness far better explored, in such a story.

Terez... are there early notes on the Aes Sedai from this period? Was there differences in their organization if there were entire lands separated by "blights"?

Also, I vaguely remember someone saying Egwene and Nynaeve were one person, once. Any clues on that?

ETA: Thanks for doing this, Terez. I'm hugely excited for this, not as a way of getting new facts about the series, but to gain insight into how RJ's creative process worked.

Terez
12-13-2015, 12:58 AM
Terez... are there early notes on the Aes Sedai from this period? Was there differences in their organization if there were entire lands separated by "blights"?

Also, I vaguely remember someone saying Egwene and Nynaeve were one person, once. Any clues on that?
All in due time.

ETA: Thanks for doing this, Terez. I'm hugely excited for this, not as a way of getting new facts about the series, but to gain insight into how RJ's creative process worked.
There will be some of both. Right now I'm doing the early worldbuilding notes, but as it goes on I'll get into later stuff with canon significance. Most of that detail was covered in the Encyclopedia, but not all.

Terez
12-13-2015, 03:48 AM
The first file was clearly written before RJ had actually begun writing TEOTW. Maybe he had written a few scenes, but if he had, no doubt he had to scrap them.

The next file is called "RAMBLINGS ON FORM OF STORY" and it's also from box 4 folder 2.

You're going to catch me reevaluating a lot of my perceptions of these notes as I go along because I have by no means studied them thoroughly yet. In fact this thread is a fun way to do Round 2. (It will take many more rounds, and ins and outs, to make a thorough study.)

I think this one was probably written not long after the previous file, though the beginnings of the story are much more recognizable. He had outlined the series, and he went back to outline book 1. He got into the details and the story began to change.

(The previous file was for books 2-6. There are other, earlier files for book 1. I apologize for not giving these files in chronological order as to when they were written, but they're not labeled and I'm going to have to sort it out. So I'm going by box.)

The typed heading has "THE EYE OF THE WORLD" in the top left corner and "NOTES" in the top right, and "1." in the middle (page number). Below "THE EYE OF THE WORLD" there is a handwritten note in red ink that says "Revision 1". I'm not 100% positive but I think this is RJ's handwriting. Then, centered: "RAMBLINGS ON FORM OF STORY". Below that, left-justified: "FILENAME: RAMBLINGS".

This one is more difficult to summarize because it's not a numbered list. The opening quote is a good example of why it's clear he hadn't written the early chapters yet, and also why it's clear he was very close to doing so.

RJ's brackets changed to parentheses; brackets mine.

Houses in the village of Emond's Field are arranged around a village green. (One street or two?) The houses are of wood and stone, some plastered. Only the tavern is of two stories, for the tavern-keeper and his family live above it. [...]

Interesting points:

1. Owan al'Vere, Nyneve, Egwyn, Spring Festival. Tam and Rand and Lan are the only other people with names in this file, aside from Sha'tan.

2. Owan/Bran serves his homemade ale, "though he does have a little of brandy and such from the outside." He hires out big horses and oxen. He is the tavernkeeper and Mayor, but the Mayor bit isn't mentioned until later in the file, a weird break in the narrative like he was going to make a list or something, but then he goes back to the narrative:

The peddler is dead(?). The gleeman is gone.

Egwyn al'Vere (her father is Owan al'Vere, the tavernkeeper and Mayor).
He is not an innkeeper in this outline; RJ specifically says that he has no rooms and the peddlers and gleemen and merchants have to make their own camp or hire a barn. But when Moiraine (no name) comes, he makes a room for her, and her Warder (this term is mentioned and detailed) sleeps in Owan's stable.

3. RJ goes into detail of how Emond's Field gets news from Outside. They get it from peddlers and grain-buyers. No mention of tabac as the main crop.

4. No mention of the "Two Rivers". Just Emond's Field. (The "Two Rivers" was inspired by the geography of Charleston, and tobacco is big in South Carolina too, if not as big as in North Carolina.)

5. RJ says they get peddlers with wagons and carts no more than twice a year, and pack-peddlers come every month or two.

6. This changed: "The grainbuyers know what is happening in the city they come from (the capital of the land)..." Clearly he had not sorted out Baerlon and Caemlyn yet.

7. More orientation quotes:

The story will begin actually in the village of Emond's Field, or perhaps with Rand and Tam on the way to it. We meet some of the village people (the Wisdom, Nyneve, the tavernkeeper, the girl Rand loves, some of the village boys with whom he is friends.)
A few paragraphs later:

On the way to the village Rand sees one of the strange riders, seemingly a man swathed in a hooded black cloak.
Then he gives all the recognizable detail of that scene. As you can see, this is something of a brainstorming file. The first quote is from p. 2, the second from pp. 3-4. The file is 10 pages.

8. The unnamed Aes Sedai is veiled.

9. RJ reminded himself to mention offhandedly at some point early in the story that Nyneve does not like Aes Sedai. And when the veiled woman and her armed companion appear, Nyneve is suspicious of them.

10. Nyneve is around 30 years old. She is a healer, and all Wisdoms are healers.

11. Blights is still plural. This comes up when the boys are trying to decide whether the armed man is a Warder.

12. The peddler tells them the False Dragon is somewhere to the north and west. (That could work for Taim, but it was Logain they heard about from Fain, and he was to the south and east.)

13. The unnamed gleeman teases the stories he will tell:

'Anla the Wise Counselo.' [sic] 'How Len Flew to the Moon on the Back of a Fiery Eagle, and how Daughter Salia Walked among the Stars.' 'The giants, Rus and Us, who battled with huge spears of light.'
(Mosk and Merk was much better, and Merk wasn't even mentioned until TSR.)

14. Tam's sword is over the fireplace, so no premonition is required to get his sword down from the chest upstairs. Rand has never seen him actually use it.

15. Tam and unnamed wife had children of their own who had died "of sickness or accident".

16. RJ has cute ways of noting important details:

Tam had found one of their women on the slopes of the mountain (He Does Not Name Mountain).

[...]

In thier [sic] talk it comes out that the veiled woman is an Aes Sedai. She weilded [sic] Power (They Don't Know Proper Terms) against the attackers...
The underlined iterations of "they" referring to the Aiel are the same kind of thing. That whole long passage about Tam's fever dreams uses underlined "they" words.

17. Tam and wife and baby return "south" to the land of Tam's birth.

18. Tam was originally going to mention that no one "down south" would recognize their gray eyes, so Rand figures out that he is one of them, whoever they are. (They don't sound like nice people.)

19. Rand even thinks that, because Tam mentioned coming south, that the mountains were in the north, and he knows the Great Blight is to the north, so he's worried that he's some kind of Shadowspawn (not that this name is used).

20. When they get to the village, most everything goes as in the book. Just after Lan is named, there's that little blip I mentioned earlier where RJ notes that Owan is Egwyn's father, and after that blip he starts going on about how no one really thinks of Nyneve like they think of other women (we all know how that is) because she is the Wisdom.

Finally, the file ends with a handwritten page where RJ is calculating words to a line and words to a page and words to a book, long division included. He calculates that 200,000 words will be 621.20 pages.

GonzoTheGreat
12-13-2015, 05:58 AM
6. This changed: "The grainbuyers know what is happening in the city they come from (the capital of the land)..." Clearly he had not sorted out Baerlon and Caemlyn yet.
Or maybe the grain buyers didn't bother to confuse the local yokels with such arcane details, being willing to be thought to come from the centre of power instead.

Terez
12-13-2015, 06:04 AM
If that's what RJ was thinking he would have written it down.

GonzoTheGreat
12-13-2015, 07:01 AM
It was intuitively obvious to the most casual reader (just like the Taigraendal thing), so RJ probably didn't think he needed to spell it out for himself.

Daekyras
12-13-2015, 08:42 AM
Now that it has been revealed that Taimandred killed Asmodean,."

I haven't had a chance to look at the Companion so forgive me if this is mentioned in it but...when did we learn this?

Our wee fella has been ill so haven't really Been focusing any thoughts on WoT. I know T mentioned that taimendred was a real thing. And I was very happy. Could anyone link me to the revelation above?

And Terez, I know I say this all the time, but thanks for helping to increase my enjoyment of WoT .

Terez
12-13-2015, 08:49 AM
Just because I'm on a roll tonight doesn't mean I'll be keeping up any kind of steady pace, by the way.

Now for the third file, a step backward in time. (Under the title this time is handwritten, double-underlined "Original". Same handwriting, probably RJ's.) A short chronology (in the real world) of the files so far (references are box/folder):

1. "THE WHEEL OF TIME: OUTLINE/BOOK ONE" 4/2
2. "NOTES/BOOKS TWO – SIX" 4/2
3. "RAMBLINGS ON FORM OF STORY" 4/2 (re: EOTW 1-7)

The new one was definitely written first. Rand is Rhys. The village is celebrating a festival but RJ asks himself "(?which one?)". We have proto-Cenn and proto-Trollocs and "Rhys's 'father'". RJ can't decide if the horse is killed by the Trollocs or if they were too poor/simple for a horse. The village Wisdom is an old woman. The unnamed tribesmen of Tam's fever dreams are horse-mounted.

At that point RJ starts to insert notes in brackets which appear to have been written in retrospect, after he'd fleshed something out further. In some cases, I wonder whether these notes were written after he'd written the other two files. For example:

[SEE REASON FOR INVASION, BELOW. REVEAL NOW, OR LATER? OR PART NOW?] He fought in the great battle before Dragonmount, where the invasion was supposedly turned back. [WAS IT IN TRUTH, OR DID THEY TURN BACK FOR SOME OTHER REASON, PERHAPS BECAUSE THEIR PURPOSE HAD BEEN CARRIED OUT?]
In "RAMBLINGS ON FORM OF STORY" RJ wrote that the Aiel were "turned back" without anything like "supposedly", but that is written kind of from Tam's POV.

This stuff kind of half-reads like a story narrative sometimes rather than non-fiction outline type stuff, kind of in the read-aloud style that is the basis for the first POV of the prologue of TGS. There is a lot of back and forth between notes style and story style, which is not surprising because RJ did storyteller mode at book signings. It came naturally to him.

Back to "OUTLINE/BOOK ONE". Tam aids in Rhys's obviously premature birth (not so in RAMBLINGS). Again, Tam's children had all died. When Rhys hears this story he has a bit of an identity crisis, and though the "gray eyes" aren't mentioned, the proto-Aiel are definitely part of Rhys's revelation.

Another NOTE TO SELF:

Arriving at the village he discovers that much of it has been burned or ruined – by, it turns out, the same sort of beings who attacked his 'father' and him. Many farms have been attacked, it turns out. [EVENTUALLY IT IS DISCOVERED THAT EVERY VILLAGE IN THE AREA AND MOST OF THE FARMS HAVE BEEN ATTACKED, WITH GREAT LOSS OF LIFE AND MUCH DESTRUCTION. When does this come out? How?]
After the "old woman" refuses to help Rhys's 'father', 'Moraine" shows up with a dude who looks young but has white hair and lined eyes. Moraine herself has "ageless beauty" and sometimes even acts like an old woman. Another note to self: "(In fact, she is how old? PERHAPS CHANGE THE BIT ABOUT ACTING VERY OLD.]"

Rhys's father dies because it is too late for Moraine to help him.

Judging by the details that follow about Rhys's internal conflicts and conflicts with Moraine, I'm guessing RJ decided later that it was unbelievable that Rhys/Rand would trust her if she had not healed his father, but there are no notes to self on that point.

Moraine's pitch to carry off the boys of a certain age is discussed with the whole village, originally suggested as a means to find out why their village was attacked. They must seek help "from _________, the city built near Dragonmount". The 'old woman' joins the party, along with "several other men and women".

The warrior teaches the boys to fight. Rhys is the best with the sword. Moraine tells a campfire story of the Dragon Reborn who is supposed to fight Sa'khan, and the prophecies that he will save them. The villagers have heard scary stories about him, and out of ignorance they name him.

"It comes out that the warrior is a Warden..." and the boys are excited. Since Rhys's father died, he thinks being a Warden would be awesome, and the other boys agree. Moraine (after a momentary hesitation) agrees to bond all of them, but the older village people put a stop to it.

They reach the city of the Power Weilders [permasic] and the "ruling council" wants to talk to all the boys.

Rhys wanders around and stumbles into a library, but he can't read and can only admire the "illuminations and drawings" (which suggests RJ had pre-printing-press books in mind). Here he meets proto-Elayne, who is the daughter of the Queen of his country and training to be a Power Weilder.

They stay in the city for some time and the princess teaches him how to read, introduces him to proto-Gawyn, and tells him that the Council has been having extended sessions discussing what to do with him and the other boys. An older Power Weilder hears this and sends her packing. Rhys goes to Moraine and she continues to be vague about why they are there.

Rhys channels. Aaaand, it's time for a quote:

A woman, perhaps one of the heroines, has been assaulted by one of the Forsaken. This has taken the form of a triple rape, not only of body, but of mind and of soul. Thus the three portions of her have been fragmented and seperated. [sic] Rhys must enter another plane of existence and reintegrate her mind and her soul with each other and with her body.
Next comes the quest for the "Green-God", who is not a god, but "a construct of the Power, manufactured by men in the previous age". He dies because he joins their battle; if he leaves the "Pool of _______" he will die, but it's not clear if this was because he was tied to the Pool in some way or if he simply foresaw his end (as he eventually did in the book) coming whenever he left the Pool.

RJ was not clear on the details of his role; he wrote "Perhaps Sa'khan has attempted to 'take' the Green-God, and failed, but has then been forced to destroy him." He is also not sure about the details of their "possibly Phyrric" victory:

Perhaps the destruction of one of the Forsaken, the turning back of an army. Perhaps this, thought to be an army at first, is later seen to be no more than a recon-in-force. Perhaps it involves the creation of a battle between parts of humankind.

Terez
12-13-2015, 08:54 AM
I haven't had a chance to look at the Companion so forgive me if this is mentioned in it but...when did we learn this?
Here (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=8767).

Daekyras
12-13-2015, 10:56 AM
Here (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=8767).

Haha, I read that and it never even registered. I was just blown away at the taimendred revelation.

Terez
12-13-2015, 11:02 AM
I even put it in all caps.

fionwe1987
12-13-2015, 12:25 PM
A woman, perhaps one of the heroines, has been assaulted by one of the Forsaken. This has taken the form of a triple rape, not only of body, but of mind and of soul. Thus the three portions of her have been fragmented and seperated. [sic] Rhys must enter another plane of existence and reintegrate her mind and her soul with each other and with her body.

Is this, perhaps the start of the idea that Rand will have three romantic partners?

So it appears Egwyn and Nyneve existed right from the beginning. As did Elyn. And you've also said Rand was to have an affair with Morghase (who is not Elyn's mom). I wonder if all that is a result of this piece from the older notes.

Also, seems to me the "other plane of existence" is Tel'aran'rhiod? Funny to see that the "reintegration" was supposed to be of a woman. Even though RJ never used it in the end, the idea that Rand would die and have to be stripped out of TAR was a very common theory, and one that I still think there's good evidence RJ had lined up as an alternative.

Terez
12-13-2015, 12:29 PM
Is this, perhaps the start of the idea that Rand will have three romantic partners?
I dunno, but I seem to recall that in another file the victim was revealed to be Nynaeve. We'll get there.

fionwe1987
12-13-2015, 12:45 PM
I dunno, but I seem to recall that in another file the victim was revealed to be Nynaeve. We'll get there.

Interesting. That kind of did survive, right, in a much watered down manner, with Balthamel attacking her?

Terez
12-13-2015, 12:46 PM
And Aginor creeping on her in her Accepted test.

GonzoTheGreat
12-13-2015, 12:56 PM
Interesting. That kind of did survive, right, in a much watered down manner, with Balthamel attacking her?
And with Lan fishing her out of the water, after she'd broken down her block by drowning.

The Unreasoner
12-13-2015, 01:16 PM
And with Lan fishing her out of the water, after she'd broken down her block by drowning.

That could just be the Jonah parallels though. She never did well on ships.

Terez
12-13-2015, 11:02 PM
The next file in box 4 folder 2 is a one-pager. Really, a half-pager. I wish I could just post the whole thing; it's hard to summarize because it's already so boiled down.

It's called "MISCELLANEOUS NOTES AND PROPHECIES FROM LE MORTE D'ARTHUR". The filename was "PROPHECY".

He talks about Merlin and Balin's sword, Lancelot and his son Galahad, and Lancelot killing Gawain, "the man he loves most", with the sword. Then Merlin and Nyneve and his "attempts on her maidenhood" until she sealed him up in an enchanted cavern.

The bit most worth quoting:

Nyneve fell in love with Sir Pelleas, after cruelly exposing the cold woman whom he had futilely loved tor some years.
This appears to be the essence of the Moiraine-Lan-Nynaeve love triangle. Some Arthur nuts probably already knew that, but the way he worded it reveals a lot.

Finally he reminds himself that "Sangreal" is an "alternate name" for the Holy Grail. He even cites this to a page number in his copy of Le Morte d'Arthur. (I don't remember Dom commenting on this note, but I have to wonder if he was annoyed.)

At the end of the file, he was going to start a list of names, but only got as far as "Hew – m[ale]".

Kimon
12-13-2015, 11:48 PM
The next file in box 4 folder 2 is a one-pager. Really, a half-pager. I wish I could just post the whole thing; it's hard to summarize because it's already so boiled down.

It's called "MISCELLANEOUS NOTES AND PROPHECIES FROM LE MORTE D'ARTHUR". The filename was "PROPHECY".

He talks about Merlin and Balin's sword, Lancelot and his son Galahad, and Lancelot killing Gawain, "the man he loves most", with the sword. Then Merlin and Nyneve and his "attempts on her maidenhood" until she sealed him up in an enchanted cavern.

The bit most worth quoting:


This appears to be the essence of the Moiraine-Lan-Nynaeve love triangle. Some Arthur nuts probably already knew that, but the way he worded it reveals a lot.


I never would have thought to connect Lan to Pelleas, but if RJ had run with that story a bit more it might have gotten interesting. The "cold woman" is variously called Arcade (early verions) or Ettarde (in Malory), so the names are pretty far from Moiraine, but Gawain tried to seduce her on Pelleas' behalf, but ended up sleeping with her himself. Moiraine hooking up with Gawyn would have been disappointing.

Balin by the way was the knight of the Dolorous Stroke that wounded the Fisher King. His name is a bit off too, but his brother's name is very close to the one he ended with - Balan.

sleepinghour
12-14-2015, 07:16 AM
Thanks for the excellent write-up, Terez. This is fascinating stuff, in particular the mythological sources for the characters. :)

I think I wrote something about Lan/Pelleas once, mostly because of this quote from Le Morte d'Arthur which I found while trying to find clues about Rand's death and the three women on a boat:

...thus was [Arthur] led away in a ship wherein were three queens; that one was King Arthur's sister, Queen Morgan le Fay; the other was the Queen of Northgalis; the third was the Queen of the Waste Lands. Also there was Nimue, the chief lady of the lake, that had wedded Pelleas the good knight; and this lady had done much for King Arthur, for she would never suffer Sir Pelleas to be in no place where he should be in danger of his life; and so he lived to the uttermost of his days with her in great rest.

The bolded part is reminiscent of Nynaeve's role in the later books, helping Rand and trying to get Rand to send aid to Lan. But for the most part, RJ reversed the original myth (which he may not have done yet at the early concept stages) or left a few faint traces that would explain why the characters might be remembered differently in future Ages. There was no real Moiraine-Lan-Nynaeve love triangle, as the former two were never in love, but Nynaeve was certainly jealous of Moiraine and saw her as cold. And unlike Morgan le Fay, Moiraine was not Rand's sister, but he did call her "little sister" once in TFoH. I wish we could have seen what RJ had in mind with the three women and the boat; I suppose it could be passed off as a metaphor, but that conclusion doesn't really feel all that satisfying after years of speculating about Skimming platforms and the wounded/dead Arthur being brought to Avalon.

Terez
12-14-2015, 08:19 AM
There was no real Moiraine-Lan-Nynaeve love triangle...
Well now you're being pedantic. :p It functioned like a love triangle even though it was part platonic. Then Moiraine went and got herself involved in a love pentagram to make up for it.

GonzoTheGreat
12-14-2015, 08:48 AM
Well now you're being pedantic. :p It functioned like a love triangle even though it was part platonic. Then Moiraine went and got herself involved in a love pentagram to make up for it.
Lemme see: Thom, Morgase, Elaida, Dena (who might not count on account of being dead), Mada, Saal, Elayne (only when drunk) and Moiraine. Seem to be too many for a proper pentagram to me.

fionwe1987
12-14-2015, 10:12 AM
Lemme see: Thom, Morgase, Elaida, Dena (who might not count on account of being dead), Mada, Saal, Elayne (only when drunk) and Moiraine. Seem to be too many for a proper pentagram to me.

:eek::confused:

fionwe1987
12-14-2015, 10:26 AM
The bolded part is reminiscent of Nynaeve's role in the later books, helping Rand and trying to get Rand to send aid to Lan. But for the most part, RJ reversed the original myth (which he may not have done yet at the early concept stages) or left a few faint traces that would explain why the characters might be remembered differently in future Ages. There was no real Moiraine-Lan-Nynaeve love triangle, as the former two were never in love, but Nynaeve was certainly jealous of Moiraine and saw her as cold. And unlike Morgan le Fay, Moiraine was not Rand's sister, but he did call her "little sister" once in TFoH. I wish we could have seen what RJ had in mind with the three women and the boat; I suppose it could be passed off as a metaphor, but that conclusion doesn't really feel all that satisfying after years of speculating about Skimming platforms and the wounded/dead Arthur being brought to Avalon.

Moiraine also felt a brief flash of jealousy about Nynaeve:

To her surprise, Moiraine felt a flash of jealousy. She had never felt that before, certainly not for any of the women who had thrown their hearts at his feet, or those who had shared his bed. Indeed, she had never thought of him as an object of jealousy, had never thought so of any man. She was married to her battle, as he was married to his. But they had been companions in those battles for so long. He had ridden a horse to death, then run himself nearly to death, carrying her in his arms at the last, to Anaiya for Healing. She had tended his wounds more than once, keeping with her arts a life he had been ready to throw away to save hers. He had always said he was wedded with death. Now a new bride had captured his eyes, though he was blind to it. He thought he still stood strong behind his walls, but Nynaeve had laced bridal flowers in his hair. Would he still find himself able to court death so blithely? Moiraine wondered when he would ask her to release him from his bond. And what she would do when he did.

sleepinghour
12-14-2015, 12:27 PM
But for the most part, RJ reversed the original myth (which he may not have done yet at the early concept stages) or left a few faint traces that would explain why the characters might be remembered differently in future Ages.

Addendum: This was mostly meant as a general statement, that RJ liked to reverse the original myths, but may also have been true of the Lan/Nynaeve relationship. In some versions of Arthurian legend, a young huntress named Nimue (also called Nyneve) was pursued by the much older Merlin, but she didn't appreciate his advances and was only interested in learning his magic. Once Merlin had taught her all he knew, Nimue got rid of him by trapping him in a cave. The age difference is the only aspect that wasn't reversed by RJ; Nynaeve is the one who pursues Lan and eventually parts way with him to learn channeling which Lan has no ability with. The Merlin/Nimue relationship is also reversed by Thom/Moiraine, Thom being an even stronger Merlin parallel. Much like Lan, Thom has no magic and is pursued by a younger woman who does. The magic is an obstacle to their relationship rather than being the only thing that binds them together. And, like Terez noted elsewhere, RJ once considered making Moiraine Amyrlin who is also a 'Merlin.' So a number of character got bits and pieces of Merlin.

KilMichaelMcC
12-14-2015, 04:30 PM
Also, seems to me the "other plane of existence" is Tel'aran'rhiod? Funny to see that the "reintegration" was supposed to be of a woman. .

This idea looks to me like it eventually morphed into Perrin rescuing Faile from the hedgehog-ter'angreal trap, where her soul was separated from her body and he had to find it in T'A'R to save her.

Kimon
12-14-2015, 05:34 PM
This idea looks to me like it eventually morphed into Perrin rescuing Faile from the hedgehog-ter'angreal trap, where her soul was separated from her body and he had to find it in T'A'R to save her.

It would fit also as an inverse with Moridin entering Finnland to rescue Lanfear, and then reintegrate her as Cyndane. Could also work with Mat and Thom entering to save Moiraine, though the reintegration works a bit better with Lanfear.

Res_Ipsa
12-14-2015, 06:24 PM
I want to share them all but the problem is that I'm bound by copyright laws for this stuff so I have to summarize a lot of stuff and only quote when RJ's exact wording is crucial.

Fair use may be on your side. I am not an IP lawyer, but in my individual opinion, not retained and not acting as a lawyer to anyone in this community, any reproduction used to comment and disseminate should fall under fair use. Even extensive reproduction is permitted under the four part balancing test. So, in this case, I think it is less copyright infringement and more about being respectful to the copyright holder's wishes. Use your best judgment.

Great Lord of the Dark
12-14-2015, 11:10 PM
I concur with Res_Ispa, fair use is likely broader than the restriction you have placed on yourself. You quote the books in your sig, the other material is no different, and you could reproduce it for reasons that carry greater permissions than your sig.

In Canada, review, research, and criticism are purposes which allow fair use reproduction of a work or a portion of it. Of course, we are much more liberal, and have even allowed James Bond into the public domain. The Wheel of Time and its characters, alas, will be another 65 years.

But I prefer the way you leak it to us in drips and drabs, so we have something to look forward to! Keep up the good work!

Terez
12-15-2015, 01:05 AM
The NDA I was originally asked to sign at the library said I couldn't quote/reproduce anything at all, but after some negotiation I got them to replace that bit with an "abide by Fair Use" clause.*

As you said, anything I hold back now is just something to discover later. This is only Round 2; I am basically conducting my research in public at this point. It will be messy. The notes are messy. But Round 3 will be tighter, and maybe by then someone else will have posted their own research/thoughts (maybe Linda). Dom has been posting some of his own thoughts in the comments of several threads on RAFO, particularly those on power levels.

* I think these negotiations were basically between me and Harriet, but with the head of Special Collections and Alan acting as proxies. Though the Collections head might have delegated it to the archivist after talking to us personally, and for all I know Alan had to go through Maria. I talked to Alan about this some but if I recall he didn't respond to my email until the matter in the library was settled, that matter being that the library clearly hadn't worked out the rules yet, and me being me, I wanted to share everything. On the very first day, I tweeted out a few things and then emailed Maria and Alan to bring their attention to the potential problem so that they could take the opportunity to set clear boundaries.

Terez
12-15-2015, 05:26 AM
Part 5

The next file from Box 4 Folder 2 is "Name List for THE EYE OF THE WORLD". It's basically a glossary. In the spirit of giving a little more, I'll list every entry, with quotes when they're significantly different from what's in the books.

Aes Sedai
Aiel
al'Thor, Rand
al'Thor, Tam
Anla the Wise Counselor

cris: an object which, in the hands of a Power weilder, can allow that person to handle more Power than he or she ordinarily could. Cris (this is also the plural) come in many sizes and configurations, as well as in many degrees of Power enhancing ability. Few are know to still exist, and fewer still are in the hands of the Aes Sedai. The art of making them is lost.

Dark One, the
Deceiver, the
Dragon, the
Dragon's Fang, the

Eye of the World, The: a pool which seems to be of the pure essence of Power, in a cavern concealed in a valley within the Blight. It is a part of myth to all but a few.

Forsaken, the: thirteen great Aes Sedai who went over to Sha'tan in the days of the first struggle. Through his power over death they were granted
immortality, but they thus became wholly his creatures. They were sealed away from the world along with Sha'tan. Only scholars know anything of their true
nature and origins. To the rest of humanity they are Sha'tans chief demons.

gleeman
Great Serpent, the
Green Man, the
Grim Lord, the
Heartsbane
How Anteve Cured Her Husband of Snoring
How Susa the Milkmaid Tamed Haran the Far-Walker
Lan (still with white hair etc.)
Len (Lenn)
Lisbet
Lord of the Dawn, the (Dark One!)
Lord of the Grave, the
Lord of the Ravens, the (Dark One)
Lord of the Twilight, the
Mayor

Moraine: the Aes Sedai who finds Rand al'Thor and finally forces him to realize that he is indeed the Dragon Reborn. She is obviously not young, but she has a sort of ageless beauty. Most would think her perhaps thirty or so. In fact she is more than twice that.

Nyneve

Ogyr: a mountain people. They are taller than other humans (though not giants by any means) and are much stockier in build. Many are lumbermen and miners, though the craft they are best known for is metal work, the making of intricate jewelry and steel of unsurpassed quality. They are an ebullient folk,
joyful, boisterous and often boastful. They live on the western slopes of mountains that border the eastern side of the Waste (SEE 'WASTE' AND 'AIEL'). Though no one considers them as warlike (wrestling matches are seemingly the extent of their violent tendancies) [sic] the Aiel do not raid over the mountains into the lands of the Ogyr as they do elsewhere.

Render of Souls, the
Salia
Serpent that Eats Its Own Tail
Sha'tan
Telamon, Jaran
to put a long handle on your axe
Trollocs

Warder: men, warriors, who are bonded to Aes Sedai, and who must obey the commands of the Aes Sedai to whom they are bonded. Normally they patrol the borders of the Blights, watching for signs that Sha'tan or the Forsaken have managed to touch the world of men once more, though occasionally they can be found in other places.. In all the centuries of their existence they have found no such signs until the story. They have other things to face, though, Trollocs and other evil things left from the war against Sha'tan and the Madness. They are given certain gifts by the Aes Sedai to whom they are bonded, through the use of the Power. They heal remarkably quickly, and they are all but immune to sickness or poison. They can survive cold or heat or lack of food or water better than other men. Most importantly, however, they can sense the taint of Sha'tan or the Forsaken. The Aes Sedai to whom a Warder is bonded will be aware of the instant of his death, though she will not be able to tell where it occurred. She will, however, know if it was violent, and if the cause was touched by the evil of Sha'tan or the Forsaken.

Waste, the
Wheel, the
White Flame, the
Wisdom

GonzoTheGreat
12-15-2015, 06:39 AM
He changed "cris" into "angreal", but that's mostly a cosmetic difference, I think. Of course, I am not very good at languages, so there may be more to this than is apparent to me.

But the biggest surprise in this seems to be the Ogier. Having Loial be a Monty Python style lumberjack is definitely different from what the books depict.

Terez
12-15-2015, 06:51 AM
He changed "cris" into "angreal", but that's mostly a cosmetic difference, I think. Of course, I am not very good at languages, so there may be more to this than is apparent to me.
In that case, I just included the whole entry so that it would be apparent to everyone that everything else was essentially the same.

sleepinghour
12-15-2015, 07:17 AM
But the biggest surprise in this seems to be the Ogier. Having Loial be a Monty Python style lumberjack is definitely different from what the books depict.

Great, now I can't get this song out of my head. But I'm taking you all down with me!

He's a lumberjack and he's okay
He sleeps all night and he works all day... ♫

GonzoTheGreat
12-15-2015, 07:24 AM
In that case, I just included the whole entry so that it would be apparent to everyone that everything else was essentially the same.Well, one (me) could argue that there are a couple of noticeable differences:

- No sa'angreal equivalent is mentioned.
- The suggestion is made that any cris would work as well for male as for female Power users, whereas angreal are specific for either saidin or saidar but not both.

Nazbaque
12-15-2015, 07:30 AM
Great, now I can't get this song out of my head. But I'm taking you all down with me!

He's a lumberjack and he's okay
He sleeps all night and he works all day... ♫

I don't mind the song, but the mental image of Loial in a dress hanging around in bars is giving me some serious trouble.

Terez
12-15-2015, 08:56 AM
Great, now I can't get this song out of my head. But I'm taking you all down with me!

He's a lumberjack and he's okay
He sleeps all night and he works all day... ♫
I have never watched anything Monty Python all the way through, but my friend Hoda used to sing this all the time whenever he was wearing a flannel shirt (which was almost every day that it was cold). He doesn't sing very well so I probably only have the vaguest idea how it's supposed to sound.

GonzoTheGreat
12-15-2015, 09:06 AM
If you're interested, you can find it by searching for "monty python lumberjack song" on youtube or the like.

Terez
12-15-2015, 09:11 AM
You're in a very helpful mood today, aren't you Gonzo?

sleepinghour
12-15-2015, 09:12 AM
If you're interested, you can find it by searching for "monty python lumberjack song" on youtube or the like.

Link for the lazy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL7n5mEmXJo&feature=youtu.be&t=23).

Edit: Apparently there's a German version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiVOG199X2c), too.

GonzoTheGreat
12-15-2015, 10:14 AM
I've had a couple of occasions where a link that worked in one country didn't work in another, allegedly for "copyright reasons" or the like. So instead of giving a link of dubious value, I decided to point out how such a link could fairly easily be found.
I hadn't thought to look for a German version, I must admit. Though I'm not surprised there is one, actually.

fionwe1987
12-15-2015, 10:24 AM
- The suggestion is made that any cris would work as well for male as for female Power users, whereas angreal are specific for either saidin or saidar but not both.
Well there are supposed to be angreal and sa'angreal that work for both men and women. We never do see them though.

And thanks Sleepinghour, for ruining my day! :mad::p

GonzoTheGreat
12-15-2015, 10:49 AM
Callandor would supposedly qualify, since anyone capable of channeling should be able to use a True Power sa'angreal. All you need do is get the DO to cooperate, and how hard can that be?

Weiramon
12-15-2015, 02:49 PM
//

Lord of the Dawn, the (Dark One!)
Lord of the Grave, the
Lord of the Ravens, the (Dark One)
Lord of the Twilight, the


//

Burn my soul, one might as well name Him Lord of the Morning.

The Unreasoner
12-15-2015, 04:19 PM
Burn my soul, one might as well name Him Lord of the Morning.

Or Prince of Dawn.

Actually, Lucifer is frequently called such things. And Fallen Angel, Morning Star. Some of those might be Mercury specific.

I guess RJ wanted a clearer boundary between Lightbringer and God's Adversary. Though I expected him to have characters conflate the two longer than they did.

Zombie Sammael
12-16-2015, 12:39 AM
It's interesting that while "The Render of Souls" and "The Grim Lord" are both pretty obviously titles for the DO, neither actually made it into the series (at least, as far as I remember). I wonder if Jordan had an exceptionally long list of possible names for the villain somewhere.

Terez
12-16-2015, 07:22 AM
It's interesting that while "The Render of Souls" and "The Grim Lord" are both pretty obviously titles for the DO, neither actually made it into the series (at least, as far as I remember). I wonder if Jordan had an exceptionally long list of possible names for the villain somewhere.
Well, that's natural when you're not supposed to say his real name out loud.

halo6819
12-16-2015, 07:35 AM
It's interesting that while "The Render of Souls" and "The Grim Lord" are both pretty obviously titles for the DO, neither actually made it into the series (at least, as far as I remember). I wonder if Jordan had an exceptionally long list of possible names for the villain somewhere.

IIRC, he was refered to as Old Grimm at one point, in Illian maybe...

GonzoTheGreat
12-16-2015, 09:48 AM
Yeah, that was right after Perrin was attacked by Gray Men and Moiraine had revealed herself as AS because she thought she was the target.

Shortly after, Zarine expresses disbelief at the mention of Fetches (Fades), even though she might've heard about those before, if only from her father.

Davian93
12-16-2015, 10:11 AM
Yeah, that was right after Perrin was attacked by Gray Men and Moiraine had revealed herself as AS because she thought she was the target.

Shortly after, Zarine expresses disbelief at the mention of Fetches (Fades), even though she might've heard about those before, if only from her father.

Not recalling the circumstances of that disbelief, perhaps it was more to do with them being in Illian than anything else. Its one thing to see them in Saldaea, its quite another to see them 3000 miles south.

GonzoTheGreat
12-16-2015, 10:53 AM
That could be it, of course. But one would expect a Saldaean Hunter for the Horn to be not too surprised at finding some Shadowy opponents lurking around.
Still, it is also possible that it was just part of her "innocent idiot" act, which she was trying (without much success) on the AS and Warder. Perrin was too distracted by Grey Men, Darkhounds and such to pay much attention to what she was saying.

Davian93
12-16-2015, 02:31 PM
That could be it, of course. But one would expect a Saldaean Hunter for the Horn to be not too surprised at finding some Shadowy opponents lurking around.
Still, it is also possible that it was just part of her "innocent idiot" act, which she was trying (without much success) on the AS and Warder. Perrin was too distracted by Grey Men, Darkhounds and such to pay much attention to what she was saying.

You'd think someone who was 2nd in line for the Saldaean throne would have recognized the Uncrowned King and most famous Borderlander living in Lan...you'd think. You'd also assume that Moiraine, who is noted as having strong relationships with every Borderland ruler in aMoL would immediately recognize Zarine too...which I'm sure she did of course...just surprising Faile hadn't heard or met her either if she really spent that much time in Maradon learning all that court stuff (Falconing, art of fan talk, etc)

But yeah.

Weiramon
12-16-2015, 02:58 PM
Or Prince of Dawn.

Actually, Lucifer is frequently called such things. And Fallen Angel, Morning Star. Some of those might be Mercury specific.

I guess RJ wanted a clearer boundary between Lightbringer and God's Adversary. Though I expected him to have characters conflate the two longer than they did.

Pshaw, I believe it is spelled Lewsifer, but of course you peasants will bastardize even that.

Terez
12-17-2015, 01:26 AM
It's getting easier and easier to see TEOTW for what it was: a novel that was probably very different in its complete first draft form, compared to the published version. I'm actually looking forward to doing a reread after I've finished going through this stuff to see how many artefacts I can catch.

fionwe1987
12-17-2015, 04:06 AM
It's getting easier and easier to see TEOTW for what it was: a novel that was probably very different in its complete first draft form, compared to the published version. I'm actually looking forward to doing a reread after I've finished going through this stuff to see how many artefacts I can catch.

Come now! Different how???

Terez
12-17-2015, 05:29 AM
Like how I've been telling you?

DahLliA
12-17-2015, 08:18 AM
Just want to say that this is really interesting.

Sort of feels weird seeing how much changed from RJ's early notes :p

(and I wanted to bump the thread above all the deleted spam)

fionwe1987
12-17-2015, 11:22 AM
Like how I've been telling you?

This is what happens when you miss the crucial smilie. Sorry about that.

Res_Ipsa
12-29-2015, 03:17 PM
So... where are the updates?

Terez
12-30-2015, 11:50 PM
I was in MS when I started this, helping my mom clean out my grandmother's house after she died, which included getting the rest of my stuff out of that house. Now I'm back in IL, where we've had an ice storm and our power was out for 2 days (and the internet was out for 3). So settle down; I did warn you this series wasn't going to be regular.

DahLliA
01-04-2016, 08:14 AM
I was in MS when I started this, helping my mom clean out my grandmother's house after she died, which included getting the rest of my stuff out of that house. Now I'm back in IL, where we've had an ice storm and our power was out for 2 days (and the internet was out for 3). So settle down; I did warn you this series wasn't going to be regular.

No rush :)

I'd rather you take your time than getting pissed off/burned out and not doing it at all :p

C Rutherford
01-04-2016, 11:58 AM
I'm confused. You mean you aren't here to simply do our bidding and devote all your time to satisfy our needs? How strange. An actual life you say? How outrageous. I need to think about this a bit. I am most unsettled.

Davian93
01-04-2016, 01:51 PM
I'm confused. You mean you aren't here to simply do our bidding and devote all your time to satisfy our needs? How strange. An actual life you say? How outrageous. I need to think about this a bit. I am most unsettled.

I agree...and I am HIGHLY disappointed in Terez here.

Ivhon
01-06-2016, 08:24 PM
I agree...and I am HIGHLY disappointed in Terez here.

Seriously. If this keeps up, I may just stop posting in General....

C Rutherford
01-09-2016, 02:00 PM
Terez,

I have a couple of questions. Related to your note gathering and research. But only generalities and what may serve as a sort of amuse bouche if you will of what I and others can and I am rather certain do look forward to in your revelations.

Simple yes or no answers. Not looking for specifics in any way.

These can all be simplified in some way by assuming that I am asking in regards to to you having more details than what the Companion contained.

1.Do you know of characters that were not in the books but part of Jordan's lists. For example windfinders with Elayne, Nynaeve and the kin. Or the Kin themselves. Aes Sedai. Etc.

2.Do you know more backstories for characters like what we saw of Cetalia Delarme (the reference to her being killed by the Black Ajah(?

3.Do you know more side stories like the one you revealed for Serafelle being at Dumai's Wells and with Covarla in Dorlan? Or just simple mention of known characters at places or events that Jordan never got to explore in the books but might have had plans to use them in the future?

4.Do you know strength levels for any characters that are different than what we have in the Companion or any that you know other than the ones you have already revealed like Amys?

5.Are you having a good New Year's so far despite the hectic holiday season of last?

Thanks!

Terez
01-23-2016, 10:24 AM
Terez,

I have a couple of questions. Related to your note gathering and research. But only generalities and what may serve as a sort of amuse bouche if you will of what I and others can and I am rather certain do look forward to in your revelations.

Simple yes or no answers. Not looking for specifics in any way.

These can all be simplified in some way by assuming that I am asking in regards to to you having more details than what the Companion contained.

1.Do you know of characters that were not in the books but part of Jordan's lists. For example windfinders with Elayne, Nynaeve and the kin. Or the Kin themselves. Aes Sedai. Etc.
Yes. Brandon has talked about how some new characters in his books were drawn from the notes. Often there's not much to build on, maybe just a name and location (e.g. at Dumai's Wells).

2.Do you know more backstories for characters like what we saw of Cetalia Delarme (the reference to her being killed by the Black Ajah(?
Some, but not much. An effort was made to include all that in the Encyclopedia.

3.Do you know more side stories like the one you revealed for Serafelle being at Dumai's Wells and with Covarla in Dorlan? Or just simple mention of known characters at places or events that Jordan never got to explore in the books but might have had plans to use them in the future?
Yes. Again, not much. I asked Maria about Serafelle (which I think I mentioned somewhere?) and she couldn't remember the exact reason that info wasn't included, but she offered a few suggestions including that they might have encountered a continuity problem somewhere.

4.Do you know strength levels for any characters that are different than what we have in the Companion or any that you know other than the ones you have already revealed like Amys?
I posted this spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ap0dMXuPtrhZnvGwFj-J6OiFVNWw0WHr3FyiF4gxlhU/) which I made up for a friend before the Encyclopedia came out. You can mine it for differences; I haven't changed it since the book came out. There are some mouseover notes, but the list is kind of lazily thrown together and based on the combined efforts of me and Dom (probably mostly Dom) from some time in 2014.

5.Are you having a good New Year's so far despite the hectic holiday season of last?

Thanks!
My New Year has mostly been forcibly relaxed; I needed a break from work. At first I thought this series was going to be the diversion I needed, but then I got to the White Goddess files and all of a sudden it was hard work. So I got me a real diversion, and I'm good now, and working on the next post. :)

Terez
01-25-2016, 07:31 AM
I hope you guys will forgive me for taking so long with this post. Not only did some real life things happen (see upthread), but also I have been dreading working on this post since before I left Mississippi about a month ago (I started the series in MS) because it's so complex—not anything like the file-per-post easy stuff I was outlining earlier.

The last file in Box 4 Folder 2 is entitled SECOND NOTES FROM THE WHITE GODDESS and it's part of its own little series within the notes. Not only is there another file with the same name and similar contents in Box 8 Folder 1 (the next stop for notes files), but there are three additional White Goddess files in 8/1 and then another one in Box 28 Folder 1 (which was probably the chronological first of these files, though there is some evidence it was tampered with after the newer files were created). All of these files have shared content.

I decided that the easiest way to summarize these files is to start with what they all have in common, which is a glossary-type set-up. Sometimes RJ keeps alphabetical order; sometimes he doesn't, but I have kept alphabetical order to make things easier. So the main thing you're missing here is the order of RJ's thoughts, which in some cases might be significant. If you have any questions about that, let me know; it would be tedious to try to represent the context in its entirety here.

There's a big to-do about trees in The White Goddess, something about the ancient mystical language of poetry, and RJ dedicated a lot of space to it, but it ended up not being very important in the books, as far as I can determine. (Maybe Linda or Dom will see something I've missed.) I've tacked on the list of tree types as a separate glossary at the end of the post.

There are a lot of bits that don't really fit into the glossary format. Some of these are inserted in quotes where they can give context in the glossary; others are stuck between the main glossary and the tree glossary. I have tried to arrange those bits thematically.

My use of quote tags is otherwise not incredibly meaningful; everything is a quote, but sometimes I'll give alternately-worded passages in quotes, and sometimes I'll give connected passages in quotes to keep them together.

I actually bought TWG because I was going to attempt to read it and maybe give some context for all this stuff, but unfortunately that sort of thing is beyond the scope of this post, and all I can give you is occasional bits. Clearly, the book was central to RJ's early note-making process, unless he made lots of notes on other books that got lost. But from the content of these files, you can see that the ultimate influence is fairly minor and attributable to many other sources (as RJ himself notes in each file name).

Also important: RJ is not necessarily using his own words in these files. Lots of stuff is copied or lazily paraphrased from TWG and other sources. He wasn't publishing any of this so plagiarism was not a concern; he was just making notes. I gave one long quote from TWG so that you could see this for yourself, but again, it would be tedious to be thorough on that point here and now.

That copying by RJ is part of why I feel comfortable basically sharing everything that is in these six files (joined together as one post). There are later files where I won't do that or even feel compelled to do that because 1) it's needlessly duplicating stuff in the books/encyclopedia, or 2) it's all in RJ's words, narrative-style, and sharing that word for word without permission would definitely not be kosher. But for these six files, you get pretty much everything except contextual order, scholarly certainty, and a few minor formatting things like indentations that don't work well in bbcode.

First, a list of all the files in box order, with the file headings given in bold on top, and then below the file names, in brackets there are the abbreviations that I have given each file to use for citations, plus the total number of pages:

Box 4 Folder 2

NOTES—THE WHEEL OF TIME
SECOND NOTES FROM THE WHITE GODDESS
(With Additional Notes From Other Sources)
[2WG 4/2 - 2 pp. with red ink markings]

Box 8 Folder 1

THE WHEEL OF TIME—NOTES 10
NOTES FROM THE WHITE GODDESS
(With Additional Notes From Other Sources)
[WG 8/1 - 19 pp.]

THE WHEEL OF TIME—NOTES 14
SECOND NOTES FROM THE WHITE GODDESS
(With Additional Notes From Other Sources)
[2WG 8/1 - 3 pp.]

NOTES NO.3—THE GREAT HUNT OF THE HORN*
NOTES FROM THE WHITE GODDESS
(With Additional Notes From Other Sources)
*footer: THE RGEAT {sic} HUNT OF THE HORN—NOTES NO.3
[WGI 8/1 - 7 pp.]

NOTES—THE WHEEL OF TIME
NOTES FROM THE WHITE GODDESS (Part II)
(With Additional Notes From Other Sources)
Filename: WHITEGODDESS1
[WGII 8/1 - 10 pp. with red ink markings]

Box 28 Folder 1

THE WHEEL OF TIME—OUTLINE/BOOK ONE
NOTES FROM®THE WHITE GODDESS®FOR US IN®THE WHEEL OF TIME
(With Additional Notes From Other Sources)
[WG 28/1 - 29 pp. with red ink markings]

The first page of this file was reproduced here (http://blogs.cofc.edu/thetruesource/2013/01/25/notice-anything-different/). Later the same year, Liz Bourke at Tor.com decided to review (http://www.tor.com/2013/10/08/book-review-robert-graves-the-white-goddess-a-historical-grammar-of-poetic-myth/) a 65-year-old book. Fun coincidence.

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{My comments in braces because RJ uses brackets; permasic still in effect for "weild", and now add "yeild" to that, though he spells it correctly sometimes and he actually corrected it once from one file to another. Everything below that is not in braces is a quote, whether coded as a quote or not.}

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AT THE BEGINNING OF THE STORY THERE MUST BE PORTENTS OF EVIL. RAIN IS SLOW IN COMING, AND WHAT LITTLE THERE IS SEEMS NOT QUENCH THE GROUND'S THIRST. SIGNS THAT THE CROPS WILL NOT BE GOOD. MANY OF THE®FIRST-BORN®LAMBS, THOSE THAT WILL BE SACRIFICED AT THE NEXT SPRING FOR FERTILITY, GOOD CROPS, ETC, HAVE DIED OR ARE SICKLY. THERE IS A GENERAL SICKLINESS AMONG THE CROPS AND THE ANIMALS, AND EVEN THE LAND SEEMS IN SOME FASHION TO BE ILL. {WG 28/1 p27, big < mark in left margin in red ink}

There are portents of evil at the beginning. Spring seems to be late in coming. The leaves are slow coming to the trees. The spring rains are few, and scarcely seem enough to dampen the earth. Many spring lambs are stillborn. The wind from the mountains is cold, as if it would like to be carrying snow. {WG 8/1 p1, WGII 8/1 p1}

Abarit: {WG 8/1 p16, WGI 8/1 p7, WGII 8/1 p8, WG 28/1 p28}

Aelman: (Aielman?) {WG 28/1 p29}

The people of the plain speak of themselves as "The Thirteen Peoples (or Clans)" but there are actually twelve. The thirteenth was the people who built the ruined city where their kings (or rulers, at least) are chosen. {WGI 8/1 p6, WG 28/1 p26 with brace in left margin in red ink}

POSSIBILITY: the society of women warriors among the plains' folk are called the Virgins of ________ or some such, thus giving in fact that the hero is born of a Virgin. {WG 28/1 p29, WG 8/1 p15, WGII 8/1 p8, crossed out in red ink with squiggly lines in the latter}

the Aes Sedai (Sedai for short): used as a mark of repect {sic} for Power Weilders, men and women alike, as 'sir' is used. They are called the Aes Sedai, but it is not a title, as such. Sedai can be used alone, as in 'Moiraine Sedai.' Aes Sidhe is an especial mark of respect or formality. {WG 8/1 p1, WGII 8/1 p1}

the Aes Sidhe (Sidhe for short): [the prime magicians of Ireland] used as a mark of repect for Power Weilders, men and women alike, as 'sir' is used. Not a title, as such. Sidhe alone is sometimes used contemptuously by those who hate or fear the adepts. Aes Sidhe is an especial mark of respect or formality, and may be used by those who are true believers or by those who fear, but always in respectful or awed tones. {WG 28/1 p12}

?????Powers weilders {sic} are called adepts. Among themselves? ????? {WG 8/1 p6, WGII 8/1 p4}

{alt:} Power weilders are called adepts, among other things. {WG 28/1 p12}

Red (a bright scarlet) was the color worn by male Aes Sedai. It is now thought to be unlucky for a man to wear red, though only the Aes Sedai could tell why.
Blue (royal blue) is the color worn by female Aes Sedai.
White is worn by those learning to weild Power who are not yet adepts.
{WG 8/1 p4, WGII 8/1 p2, WG 28/1 p6; in latter, arrows pointing from left margin in red ink}

al'Ordine {WG 28/1 p14, continues where other references begin and stops with "Odin"}: fore-runner of Odin. (?one-eyed goat-herd who rises to become leader and general of axe-men?) {WG 8/1 pp7-8, WGII 8/1 p4}

al'Siris: he will become a corn-king, or barley-king, or oak-king. {WG 28/1 p15}
forerunner of Osiris: ?????wed to his sister, slain, torn to pieces, yet arose from the dead?????
{WG 8/1 p8, WGII 8/1 p4}

a man who may be considered as fore-runner of the Apollo legend. Golden locust is one of his symbols. {WG 8/1 pp7-8, WGII 8/1 p4, WG 28/1 p14}

Ale'aison Mysteries: part of a religion of the time. Allowed to be known only by women. ??????????????????? {WGI 8/1 p1, WG 28/1 p3}

Alys: {WG 8/1 p16, WG 28/1 p25, WGII 8/1 p8 - crossed out in red ink in the latter, possibly because it was used as an alias for Moiraine in TEOTW}

Amathaon: {WG 8/1 p16, WGI 8/1 p2, WGII 8/1 p8, WG 28/1 p7}

Arainrhod: [castle where men wait to be reborn. a frigid place.] {WG 8/1 p19, WGII 8/1 p10, WG 28/1 p13}

Balorsine: {WG 8/1 p16, 2WG 4/2 p1, 2WG 8/1 p2, WGII 8/1 p9}

bard (or plain-bard): the lowest level of official, or recognized, poet and minstrel. Takes seven years of training in music, prosody, poetic forms, history, etc. Trained in the composition of sagas, lays, love-poems, satires, and lampoons. {WG 8/1 p2, WGI 8/1 p1, WGII 8/1 p1, WG 28/1 pp1-2; question mark to left in red ink in the latter}

Barthanes: {WG 8/1 p16, WGI 8/1 p7, WG 28/1 p29, WGII 8/1 p9; question mark dashed to the left in red ink in latter}

Bran: [a god betrayed by his kin and slain] {WG 8/1 p19, WGII 8/1 p10, WG 28/1 p7}

Brugh: {WG 8/1 p17, WGI 8/1 p3, WG 28/1 p11, WGII 8/1 p9; crossed out in red ink in the latter; used in TFOH}

Carridwen: [a woman's name.] {WG 8/1 p17, WGII 8/1 p9, WG 28/1 p3}

Cenn: {WG 28/1 p15, WG 8/1 p17, WGII 8/1 p9; question mark to left in the latter, then name crossed out heavily in red ink}

Cirri: {WG 8/1 p17, WG 28/1 p11, WGII 8/1 p9; question mark to left in red ink in the latter; name used in TEOTW for the cat at the Stag and Lion; this is a term for a barnacle's legs}

the Covenant: {WG 8/1 p18, WGI 8/1 p7, WGII 8/1 p9, WG 28/1 p28}

court-bard: next level up from an ordinary bard. Plays and performs for nobility and equivalents only. {WG 8/1 p2, WGI 8/1 p1, WGII 8/1 p1, WG 28/1 p2; question mark dashed to the left in red ink in latter}

Cynan: {WG 8/1 p17, WGI 8/1 p3, WG 28/1 p9, WGII 8/1 p9; question mark to left in red ink in the latter}

the Danu: the people of the land ruled by women, and the women of that land (but not the men). {WG 28/1 p8}

Davian: {WG 8/1 p17, WG 28/1 p11, WGII 8/1 p9; question mark to left in red ink in the latter}

Davydd: [a man's name. Welsh.] {WG 8/1 p17, 2WG 8/1 p3, 2WG 4/2, WGII 8/1 p9; crossed out in red ink in the latter two}

Egeria: (woman's name.) [nymph who instructed King Nuna of Rome.] {WG 8/1 p18, WGII 8/1 p9, WG 28/1 p22}

Elffin: a man's name. A slender, small man. {WG 8/1 p17, WGII 8/1 p9, WG 28/1 p3}

Erinin (or Erinine). {WG 8/1 p17, WGI 8/1 p7, WG 28/1 p29, WGII 8/1 p9; question mark to left in red ink in latter}

Ethne: {WG 8/1 p17, 2WG 4/2 p1, 2WG 8/1 p2, WGII 8/1 p9}

Five Seasons: ??? New Year, Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter. {2WG 4/2 p1, 2WG 8/1 p1}
A year of 360 days (15 months of 28 days each) with a five-day festival between them, counted as not being part of either year, or perhaps as of both. Would certainly be afestival [sic] of death and rebirth. This festival would be held between winter (the death of the old year) and spring (the birth of the new year). 5 seasons of 72 days each? {WG 28/1 pp27-28}

Gad ________: {WG 8/1 p19, WGII 8/1 p10, WGI 8/1 p1, WG 28/1 p3}

Geoffran: {WG 8/1 p17, WGI 8/1 p3, WGII 8/1 p9, WG 28/1 p10; question mark to left in red ink in the latter two}

gleeman: a wandering minstrel and poet, generally also a juggler, mime, story-teller, acrobat, sword-swallower, fire-walker and/or fire-eater. {WG 28/1 p1; arrow pointing from left margin in red ink}

the goddess: a great abundance of hair, flowing and curling about her slender neck and shoulders. On the crown of her head garlands of flowers. In the middle of her head a plain circle, like a slver {sic} moon or mirror, borne up on either side by serpents that seemed to rise from the furrows of the earth, and above it blades of corn. Her vestments of finest linen in diverse colors, somewhere white nad {sic} shining, somewhere yellow like the crocus flower, somewhere rosy red, somewhere flaming. Her cloak was utterly dark and obscure covered with shining black, wrapped round her from under her left arm to her right shoulder, part of it falling down, subtely {sic} pleated, to the skirts of her garments. Her and there {sic} upon the edge thereof and throughout its surface stars glimmered, and in the midst of them was the moon mid-month, which shone like a flame of fire. Round the hem of it was a garland wreathing unbroken of all flowers and fruits. {WG 28/1 p10}

[…] First, she had a great abundance of hair, flowing and curling, dispersed and scattered about her divine neck; on the crown of her head she bare many garlands interlaced with flowers, and in the middle of her forehead was a plain circlet in fashion of a mirror, or rather resembling the moon by the light it gave forth; and this was borne up on either side by serpents that seemed to rise from the furrows of the earth, and above it were blades of corn set out. Her vestment was of finest linen yielding diverse colours, somewhere white and shining, somewhere yellow like the crocus flower, somewhere rosy red, somewhere flaming; and (which troubled my sight and spirit sore) her cloak was utterly dark and obscure covered with shining black, and being wrapped round her from under her left arm to her right shoulder in manner of a shield, part of it fell down, pleated in the most subtle fashion, to the skirts of her garment so that the welts appeared comely. Here and there upon the edge thereof and throughout its surface the stars glimpsed, and in the middle of them was placed the moon in mid-month, which shone like a flame of fire; and round about the whole length of the border of that goodly robe was a crown or garland wreathing unbroken, made with all flowers and all fruits. […]

{"The White Goddess" Chapter 4. This is a quote from the character Lucius in the "Golden Ass" by Apuleius, translated by William Adlington and quoted at length by Robert Graves.}

the Green-God: created by men in the Second Age. Can heal any injury or ailment with water from the sacred pool. [EXPAND! BETTER!] Waters are tied in some fashion to the Power. Not only heal, but are source of the Green-God's immortality. Normally cannot, or will not, travel far from the pool. Location of pool not known to men. {WG 28/1 p16}

Guaire: {WG 8/1 p17, WGI 8/1 p5, WG 28/1 p21, WGII 8/1 p9; question mark to left in red ink in latter}

Harran: {WG 8/1 p17, 2WG 4/2 p1, 2WG 8/1 p1, WG 8/1 p17, WGII 8/1 p9}

the High King: {WG 8/1 p6, WGII 8/1 p3, WG 28/1 p10; WGI 8/1 p3 adds: Artur Hawkwing}

Hu: {WG 8/1 p17, WGII 8/1 p9, WG 28/1 p11}

Huan: {WG 8/1 p17, WGII 8/1 p9, WGI 8/1 p3, WG 28/1 p10; question mark to the left in red ink in the latter}

the hundred-handed ones: members of a group who study martial arts that use only hands and feet and staffs. {WGI 8/1 p2; also WG 28/1 p8, with question mark in red ink in left margin; also WG 8/1 p5, WGII 8/1 p3, framed by ????? on each end}

Jah: as a man's name. {WG 8/1 p17, 2WG 4/2 p2, 2WG 8/1 p3, WGII 8/1 p9}

Jaichim: {WG 8/1 p17, WGII 8/1 p9, WG 28/1 p14}

Jon: {WG 8/1 p17, WGI 8/1 p7, WG 28/1 p28, WGII 8/1 p9; crossed out in red ink in latter}

Jura(h): {WG 8/1 p17, WGI 8/1 p3, WG 28/1 p16, WGII 8/1 p9; question mark to left in red ink in latter}

Jur(i)en(s): {WG 8/1 p17, WGI 8/1 p3, WGII 8/1 p9; question mark to left in red ink in the latter; also WG 28/1 p9 with arrow pointing from left margin in red ink}

Kadsuane: {WG 8/1 p17, 2WG 4/2 p1, 2WG 8/1 p1, WG 8/1 p17, WGII 8/1 p9}

Kai: [in early legends, one of the diademed chiefs of battle possessed of magical powers, later listed as being in charge of King Arthur's buttery] {WG 8/1 p19, WGI 8/1 p3, WGII 8/1 p10, WG 28/1 p12}

'kindling': inducing the poetic mood with a luscious prologue about groves, streams and nightingales, then, before mood is dispelled, getting on to subject matter at hand. {WG 8/1 p2, WGII 8/1 p1, WG 28/1 pp2-3}

Lady Day, May Day, Midsummer Day {latter circled in red ink}: feasts and celebrations. {WG 28/1 p2}

Lady Day, Bel Tine, Winternight, Sunday: feasts and celebrations. {WGI 8/1 p1}

Lady Day, May Day, Midsummer Day: feasts and celebrations.
Midsummer Day is a water-festival and a fire-festival.
{WG 8/1 p2, WGII 8/1 p1}

Midsummer Day: a water-festival and a fire-festival. {WG 28/1 p15}

Spring-fire: a feast and celebration, in which the furze is burned so that its young shoots will edible {sic} for sheep. Also, the first-born sheep of the previous spring on each farm is sacrificed. {WG 28/1 p5 with note in red ink in left margin: "[?] form"}

The White Goddess, the All-Mother, the Nine-Fold Goddess. {WG 28/1 p2}

feast of the Mother-Goddess celebrated with apple-cider, apples, and kid roasted on a spit of hazel and stufed {sic} with apples. {WG 28/1 p25; unreadable note in left margin in red ink}

solstice: June 22 (beginning summer), December 22 (beginning winter). {WGI 8/1 p1}

Longest day of year= {WGI 8/1 p1}

Longest night of year= {WGI 8/1 p1}

Feast of Candles: February 2. {WG 8/1 p13, WGI 8/1 p5, WGII 8/1 p7, WG 28/1 p20}

spring equinox, when days grow longer than nights, and the sun grows to manhood. {WG 8/1 p13, WGII 8/1 p7, WG 28/1 p21}

Foods for the Spring Festival:
lamb stuffed with apples.
barley-cakes.
apples.
apple-cider.
{WG 8/1 p1, WGII 8/1 p1}

baking of barley-cakes in honor of the Queen of Heaven. {WG 28/1 p24}

At the Spring Festival two girls will be chosen to wear yellow dresses, pretend to be bears, and tun {sic} at the boys attending.
Women will dance at the festival with golden leaves (?what tree?) in their hair.
Maypole.
{WG 8/1 p1, WGII 8/1 p1}

[festival in which two girls dressed in yellow dresses pretend to be bears and run at the boys attending.]
women at a festival dancing with golden leaves in their hair.
{WG 28/1 pp28-29, brace in left margin in red ink on p. 28}

the All-Being: an alternative name for the Creator. {WG 8/1 p18, WGII 8/1 p9, WG 28/1 p16}

summer solstice ritual of sacrifice of oak-king: led to a circle of twevle {sic} stones within which is an oak which has been lopped off into a T-shape. His twelve companions beat him until he faints. (There is a thirteenth who will be his successor) Then he is blinded, castrated, flayed, impaled with a mistletoe stake, and finally hacked into joints on a stone altar set before the oak. His blood is caught in a basin for use. (annointing the stone. annointing the pristesses. {sic} annointing the fields. annointing the people0 {sic} The joints are roasted on a fire of oak, lit from sacred fire, made of oak, which is never allowed to go out, and which came from a lightning struck oak. Joints are then eaten (by whom? his twelve companions? His successor should have some.) Head and genitals are smoked and preserved for oracular use. He then becomes a demi-god of the local pantheon.

Alternative number 1: he is ripped apart bodily by the priestesses, who have roused themselves to a frenzy with herbs.

Alternative number 2: he is chopped into the fields. Or, after the butchery, parts of him are chopped into every field, or perhaps selected ceremonial fields, to insure fertility.

Alternative number 3: parts of him are burned on the sacred fire, and he supposedly ascends with the smoke.

{WG 28/1 pp14-15}

Llew: {WG 8/1 p17, WGII 8/1 p9, WG 28/1 p8}

Logain: {WG 8/1 p17, WGII 8/1 p9, WG 28/1 p12}

Marsu: {2WG 4/2 p1, 2WG 8/1 p1: "(?al'Marsu?)"] [WG 8/1 p18, WGI 8/1 p1, WGII 8/1 p9, WG 28/1 p1: "_____ al'Marse: a famed and feared general.", arrow pointing from left margin in red ink in the latter}

master-bard: highest level. Plays and performs for royalty and equivalents. Social level is one step below that of the ruler's consort, and equal to the highest level of nobility.
{WG 8/1 p2, WGI 8/1 p1, WGII 8/1 p1, WG 28/1 p2; question mark dashed to the left in red ink in latter}

the men of Gebal: [men of the 'moutain-heights' {sic} who worked stone for Solomon's temple. 1 Kings V, 18] {WG 28/1 p17}

Moiraine: the woman weilder of power who searches out Rhys al'Thor. (Moraine {sic} Sidhe) {WG 28/1 p13; arrow pointing from left margin in red ink}

IF THE POWER WEILDER WHO FIRST FINDS AL'THOR IS AT SOME POINT MADE INTO A CRONE BY THE POWERS OF SA'KHAN, SHE WILL BE A PERFECT PRECURSOR FOR THE HAG IN THE MAIDEN-NYMPH-HAG TRIO. AL'THOR WOULD BE THE MEANS OF HER RESCUE, BUT NOT IN THE SAME BOOK IN WHICH THE DISASTER STRIKES HER. {2WG 4/2 p1, 2WG 8/1 p2}

If Moiraine is at some point (not in the first book) made into a crone by the powers of Sha'tan, she could fit into the maiden-mother-hag trio. {WG 8/1 p15, WGII 8/1 p8}

THE THREE WOMEN OF THE STORY WILL BE PERCEIVED NOT ONLY AS THE THREE WHO TOOK ARTHUR TO AVALON, BUT ALSO AS THE ORIGIN OF THE TRIPLE-GODDESS PERSONIFIED AS MAIDEN, NYMPH AND HAG. {WG 28/1 p25}

Three blind women (the Gray Ones, sisters of the Gorgon), goddesses/priestesses, who have one "eye" between them, which sees all, and which they use for oracular purpose. Also a "tooth," which must be a weapon of some sort. Legendarily Perseus stole these, then blackmailed the three into giving him the location of the Grove of Nymphs, where he obtained winged sandals like those of Hermes, a bag to put the Gorgon's head in, and a helmet of invisibility. He then threw "eye" and "tooth" into a lake to break the women's power.

Hermes gave him a sickle, and Athene (who was the Gorgon's rival) gave him a mirror. He flew to the grove on the borders of the ocean where the Gorgons lived, used the mirror to avoid Medusa's curse, cut off her head with the sickle, and returned with it, pursued by the other Gorgons.

The three women can be seen as the Triple Love-Goddess. and took the form of swans. Also as the Three Fates. {WG 28/1 pp22-23}

the Gorgon's face as a priestess' mask, ugly to frighten. {WG 28/1 p23}

Morvran: {WG 8/1 p18, WGII 8/1 p9, WG 28/1 p3}

Nereis: [a supposed alt name for goddess Artemis] {WG 8/1 p18, WGI 8/1 p3, WGII 8/1 p10, WG 28/1 p15}

Niamh: {WG 8/1 p18, WGII 8/1 p9, WG 28/1 p15}

oak-seer: {WG 28/1 p2}

Ogyr: a mountain people. Moderately short and very stocky, with big noses, men and women alike. Men wear full beards and hair very long. {WG 8/1 p2, WGII 8/1 p1, WG 28/1 p2, continuing in the latter:} Quarreymen and stone-masons, most are. Practice ritual cannibalism in the fashion of the Maori. Other people look on them with a measure of horror for this.

Owein (or Owain): {WG 8/1 p18, WGII 8/1 p9; crossed out in red ink, possibly because Owyn was used in TEOTW; also WG 28/1 p9 with question mark in red ink in left margin}

Plain of Shinar {WG 8/1 p19, WGII 8/1 p10, WG 28/1 p24}

Rhea: {WG 8/1 p18, WGII 8/1 p9, WG 28/1 p15}

Common folk record their descent patrilinearly. {sic} Women power weilders, and nobles (including royalty) in some countries record thiers matrilinearly {sic}. {WGI 8/1 p2, WG 28/1 p7; also WG 8/1 p5, WGII 8/1 p3, framed by ?? on each end}

In lands where the royal succession is figured matrilinearly {sic}, the king is king by virtue of having married the queen. Their eldest daughter will succeed to the throne. IN some the eldest son is trained to be a general. In most of these lands the king is protected and sometimes even coddled. The amount of their actual power varies widely. In some places they were once victims of the corn-god ritual, but this is far in the past.
Corn-god ritual included {WG 28/1 alt: "possibly includes"} castration with a golden sickle, a version of the tool used in harvesting corn and barley. {In WG 28/1 this ¶ was below the next paragraph, which itself has a big < mark in red ink in left margin.}

[Variation of the myth of Uranus, emaculated {sic} by Cronos, who was in turn unseated by Saturn, who confined Cronos in the custody of the hundred handed ones.]

{WG 28/1 pp8-9; also WG 8/1 pp5-6 and WGII 8/1 p3 which continue:}

version of the legend {only in WG 28/1 pp16-17; other versions start here}: Rhea bore her lover, Saturn, a number of children, each of which Saturn ate, until Zeus was born, escaped, and eventually avenged his brothers by castrating Saturn.

(????) Some lands and peoples follow a variation of the corn-god rituals. [Corn-king, barley-king, oak-king, other names as well.] {WGI 8/1 p3, WG 28/1 p8}

Rhys al'Thor: the hero of the Wheel of Time. The Dragon Reborn. The Hammer. {WG 28/1 p1}

Rhys must heal the power used by men before the final book. Perhaps he manages to do it in desperation, hoping to provide other means than himself of defeating Sa'khan. {WG 28/1 p24}

the Rods of Dominion: {WGI 8/1 p3, WG 28/1 p16; also WG 8/1 p8, WGII 8/1 p4, framed with ?????}

Rogosh: {WG 28/1 p12}

Rom: {WG 8/1 p18, WGI 8/1 p4, WGII 8/1 p9, WG 28/1 p16}

Rue ________: (or Reu ________) {WG 8/1 p18, WGI 8/1 p3, WGII 8/1 p9, WG 28/1 p16}

Ruidain: {WG 8/1 p18, WGI 8/1 p3, WGII 8/1 p9, WG 28/1 p13}

sacred groves: {WG 28/1 p3}

Groves of trees have grown in places that were once focuses of Power. Not all of these locations are known, since not all were re-discovered after the Time of Madness. Those places that were used as focuses of male Power during the Time of Madness are tainted. Strange, unpleasant things can happen. The same is true of palces {sic} that were used as focuses of Power by those who supported Sha'tan. Additionally, some places were tainted by Sha'tan's power, either by the Forsaken or by others.
Sometimes men who die there are constrained to remain, slaying all who come. There are other things that can happen, as well.
{WG 8/1 p8, WGII 8/1 p4}

Harming a sacred grove carried a death penalty. {WG 28/1 p22}

Seanchan: {WG 8/1 p18, WGI 8/1 p5, WGII 8/1 p9, WG 28/1 p21}

Sene: {WG 8/1 p18, WGI 8/1 p3, WGII 8/1 p9, WG 28/1 p16}

Talamon: {WGI 8/1 p2, WG 28/1 p7}

Taliesin: [a man's name.] {WG 8/1 p18, WGII 8/1 p9, WG 28/1 p3; ended up being a woman (http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/characters/hist/telaisien.html).}

Tammuz: [corn-god] {WGI 8/1 p2, WG 28/1 p7}

Tan ________: {WG 8/1 p19, WGII 8/1 p10, WG 28/1 p15}

Thom: {WG 8/1 p18, WGII 8/1 p9, WG 28/1 p28}

Trees: have a great connection to the Power (WHY? HOW? EXPLAIN!). There are uses to which trees can be put involving the Power. The backlash of Power, however, has weakened the links, corrupting some, so that all this is uncertain. There are sacred groves, regions that are focal points of Power. Unfortunately, there are also forests which protect themselves. The trees themselves cannot harm men, but the Power there has been warped. Men who have died there are bound to remain, and to slay other men who come. {WG 28/1 p17}

Some ancient weilders of Power were credited with the ability to change trees into warriors and send them into battle.
{WG 28/1 p3; also WGI 8/1 p1 prefaced with "(???)"; also WG 8/1 p2, WGII 8/1 p2, prefaced with "POSSIBILITY:" instead of question marks, followed by note: "PERHAPS TOO CLOSE TO OTHERS' USE OF SENTIENT TREES?" and, in WGII, ultimately crossed out altogether with squiggly lines in red ink}

Tuatha: [Tuatha de Danaan were apparently an early people in Ireland or Wales] {WG 28/1 p11}

Urien(s): {WG 8/1 p18, WGII 8/1 p9, WGI 8/1 p3, WG 28/1 p9 with arrow pointing from left margin in red ink in the latter}

Vron: [head was buried on the White Hill, where Tower of London is now, as a protection against invasion.] {WG 8/1 p19, WGII 8/1 p10, WG 28/1 p10}

Wardens: (alt. 'Warders') men who watch the borders of human lands against the prophecied {sic} return of evil. They are warriors. Each has some abilities that are gifted from the Power, but they themselves have no use of the Power. Each has bonded himself to a female weilder of power. She cannot compel him to obey her, but if she commands in a certain way and he disobeys, the bonding is broken and the gifts lost. These gifts include a 'sense' for the presence of evil, a marvelous amount of self-healing ability, and a retarding of aging. {WG 28/1 p1; arrow pointing from left margin, and "She cannot compel…" sentence circled in red ink}

the Wheel: all things must swing round again forever. One cannot escape from the Wheel. Another symbol of time and eternity, as is the Great Serpent. May have four spokes (representing the four elements of the Power), or five, seven, nine or thirteen. (QUERY NUMBERS!) {WG 28/1 pp15-16}

QUERY: Should the AGES number 7 (as is in so many legends and myths, and the Bible as well) or 9, which would be a number of magical properties. {2WG 4/2 p1, 2WG 8/1 p2}

The world has seven ages. They are the completion of the wheel of Time. {WG 28/1 p26}

"We shall be the legends of the next Age, the myth of the Age after that, and they in turn are our own myths." {WGI 8/1 p2, WG 28/1 p5}

The myth-tale of Lenn, who flew to the moon on the back of an eagle of fire. His daughter, Salia, flew to the stars. {WG 28/1 p4, arrow pointing from left margin in red ink}

The White Tower: {WG 8/1 p19, WGII 8/1 p10, WG 28/1 p7}

________'s Well: {WG 28/1 p21}

*****{end glossary}*****

spirit, earth, air, fire and water. Fire: sun. Water: moon. The last two are considered the most powerful, the rulers of the year. {WG 8/1 p15, WGII 8/1 p8; WG 28/1 p28 with "spirit (soul)"}

The Powers used by men and the Powers used by women were (before the corruption of the male Power) alike yet different, complimentary, yin and yang. It is little known that the greatest feats of Power weilding were done by men and women working together, blending their powers. Once the yin-and-yang symbol was the symbol of the Powers. Now the white tear-drop balanced on its point is the symbol of female weilders of Power. The black tear-drop balanced on its base is a symbol of evil.

The Powers have five divisions: spirit (or soul?), earth, air, fire, and water. The Powers of Earth nad {sic} fire were stronger in men than in women; those of air and water more powerful in women. The Power called spirit was equally strong in both. Both men and women, however, have use of all the regions of power. The means and sources, however, are different. {WG 28/1 pp6-7}

Powers.
Dominions.
Thrones.
{WGI 8/1 p1; WG 28/1 p3 (in one line); WG 8/1 p2 (in one line framed by ????? on both sides)}

the Chair(s) of ________: (a geological formation)
the Stair(s) of ________: (a geological formation)
the Tear(s) of ________: (a geological formation)
each of the above could be used with a possessive ('s) instead. {this line WG 28/1 only}
{WGI 8/1 p3, WG 28/1 p11}

A GODDESS WHO LIVES A CERTAIN AGE, DIES, AND IS REBORN, EACH INCARNATION LIVING EXACTLY THAT NUMBER OF YEARS. {WG 28/1 p22}

the appearance of a personage joining battle, a personage glowing so brightly that a king cries out that the sun is rising in the west, to which his priests reply, would that it were only the sun, for it is _______.
A face on which no man can gaze without being dazzled.
{WG 8/1 p15, 2WG 4/2 p1, 2WG 8/1 p1, WGII 8/1 p8}

Man decoyed into a bath in which he may be killed. Other conditions? One version: soul in an apple in the stomach of a salmon that appears in a certain stream once every severn {sic} years, which appled {sic} can only be cut with man's own sword. Check legend of Minos death in his bath at the hands of priestess of Cocalus.
Check Book of Judith, one of the Apocryphal books of the Bible.
{WG 8/1 p16, 2WG 4/2 p1, 2WG 8/1 p3, WGII 8/1 p8}

A mother's perogative {sic} to give arms to her son.
Remember Spartan presentation of shield.
{WG 8/1 p16, 2WG 4/2 p2, 2WG 8/1 p3, WGII 8/1 p8}

the double spiral, which, traced inward, leads to its center and then out again, is a symbol of death and rebirth, a symbol that there is no true end to life. {WGI 8/1 p2, WG 28/1 p8; also WG 8/1 p5, WGII 8/1 p3, framed by ????? on each end}

(????) Peoples to the north driven south in invasion by their contact with the emrging {sic} hordes of Trollocs, Halfmen and the Forsaken. {WGI 8/1 p3}

{Alt:} There are peoples to the north who are driven south in invasion by their contact with the emrging {sic} hordes of Sha'tan and the Forsaken. {WG 28/1 p8, without caps line and using "Sa'Khan"; question mark in left margin in red ink. WG 8/1 p5 and WGII 8/1 p3 use this line and continue:} THIS COME {sic} LATER, AFTER THE FIRST BOOK.

Sayings
From the north the sun never shines.
The north wind brings only snow.
{WGI 8/1 p3; also WG 8/1 p7, WGII 8/1 p4 sans heading}

The sun progresses each year from south to north, weakest at midwinter in the south, reaches northernmost at the summer solstice. {WG 8/1 p7, WGII 8/1 p4}

{WG 28/1 p13 combines the above into one paragraph, sans heading}

the 'Crown of the North Wind' {WG 28/1 p12}: for the ruler of the northernmost kingdom? {WG 8/1 p6, WGII 8/1 p3}

those from back of the North Wind {WG 8/1 p6, WGI 8/1 p3, WGII 8/1 p3, WG 28/1 p12}

'the rising of the Sun, the running of the deer': song {WG 8/1 p13, WGI 8/1 p5, WGII 8/1 p7, WG 28/1 p21}

THIS CAN BE USED AS BASIS FOR A BARROW:
(It is an actuyal {sic} excavated barrow)
A flat-topped round barrow, a quarter of a mile in circumference and fifty feet high. Built of heaped stones (50,000 tons) covered with white quartz pepples. {sic} In a semi-circle around the southern end, twelve stone herms of approx ten tons each, with one more on the summit. A hedge of one hundred long flat stones, set edge to edge, rings the base around. Passages inside constructed of slabs of stone measuring seven feet by four.
Ground plan is in the shape of a Celtic cross. Enter by a dolmen door at base of the shaft, which consists of a narrow passage sixty feet long, through which one has to crawl on hands and knees. Leads to a small circular chamber, with a bee-hive corbelled vault twenty feet high. There are three recesses which form the arms of the cross.
{WG 8/1 p7, WGII 8/1 p4; WG 28/1 p13 sans first two lines}

Cheiron the Centaur, who kept a school. Among his pupils: Achilles, Jason, Hercules, and most of the heros {sic} of the Trojan War. **********(Chei as a title, combined with a name beginning with Ron)********** Cherion was renowend {sic} for his skill in hunting, medecine, {sic} music, divination and gymnastics. Supposedly instructed by Apollo and Artemis. Accidentally killed by Hercules. {WG 28/1 pp24-25}

?????There are gods, or beings so powerful as to be considered gods, beings perhaps in some ways as powerful as Sa'Khan, or possibly even more so, but they are invariably of little or no help. There {sic} aid is withheld, or circumscribed, or more harmful than good, or at best delivers less than was hoped and promised. This is a thread which must run through: mankind must depend on itself, not on the help of all-powerful gods. {2WG 8/1 pp1-2}

The First Age ended when fire rained from the heavens. The flesh of men melted, and those who did not melt were charred like coals. Plagues, sores, and boils roamed the world, and famine, yet to eat or drink often meant death, for waters and fruits that once were wholesome now slew at the eating. Even the air and the dust could slay. The wind could bring death. Rivers filled with dead fish, and birds fell from the sky. Invisible vapors from the land that slew. Noxious fumes that coroded {sic} men's flesh.

Man stretched forth his hands to the heavens, and seized the stars, and called them his own. The gods waxed wroth over man's presumption, and caused men to war over plenty as if it were the last remnants to be shared among many,

{WGI 8/1 pp1-2, WG 28/1; second paragraph circled in red ink in the latter, with "had" editorially inserted between "Man stretched"; writing in left margin next to first paragraph: "[?] form."}

{Alt ending in WG 8/1 p3, WGII 8/1 p2:}

Man stretched forth his hands to the heavens, and seized the stars, and called them his own. For his presumption man was purged of his greatness, purged of knowledge and abilities, reduced to an animal to begin again the climb to the Light.

Perhaps only the last part is 'known,' through legend and story.

The serpent as a symbol of man. If men who oppose Sha'tan use the Great Serpent as a banner symbol? {WG 8/1 p3, WGII 8/1 p2}

A goddess wearing a belt of acorns and a necklace of msitletoe {sic}, holding a serpent in her left hand.
The serpent as a symbol of man.
{WG 28/1 p4}

The Great Serpent that eats its own tail, and is the symbol of time, and of eternity.
Time is a closed circle, each age coming again in turn, changed and yet the same, like and yet different, from what it was when it previously was. {WGI 8/1 p2, WG 28/1 p5}

Sha'tan will tear loose the Great Serpent's grip on its own tail. He will end the ceaseless cycles of Time; the Serpent will die. Sha'tan can use the powers that come from death. The death of Time itself will loose such powers that the Dark One will be able to remake the universe (creation) in his own image. {WG 8/1 pp4-5, WGII 8/1 pp2-3, WG 28/1 p6; the latter reads "Sa'Khan"}

Shai'tan: {WGI 8/1 only}
The Dark One.
The Render of Souls.
Heartsbane.
Bloodfang.
Lord of the Ravens.
Bonebreaker.
Lord Dread {? in WG 8/1, WGII 8/1, WG 28/1}
The Dread One {WG 8/1, WGII 8/1 only}
The Lord of Dread {WG 8/1, WGII 8/1 only}
Father of Lies {WGI 8/1 only}
Lord of the Grave. {WGI 8/1 only}
[HIS TRUS {sic} NAME,®SA'KHAN®IS VERY UNLUCKY TO SAY] {WG 28/1 only}
Sha'tan is called by followers 'the Great Lord of the Dark.' {WG 8/1, WGII 8/1, WG 28/1 only; the latter lacks quotation marks and begins "He is called…"}
{WG 8/1 p4, WGI 8/1 p2, WGII 8/1 p2; WG 28/1 pp5-6, all in one line}

Black hounds with eyes and feet of flame. Their breath is icy-, deathly-cold. {WG 8/1 p5, WGI 8/1 p2, WGII 8/1 p3, WG 28/1 p7}

Ravens were one of the creatures that fell under the sway of the Evil One.
They are still thought to be unlucky, and some, in fact, are his spies.
{WG 8/1 p4, WGII 8/1 p2, WG 28/1 p6; in latter, arrow pointing from left margin in red ink}

Kingfisher: female believed to cary {sic} her dead mate to sea on her back. Believed to ward off bad weather. startling bright blue and white plummage. {sic} {WG 8/1 p13, WGI 8/1 p5, WGII 8/1 p7, WG 28/1 p20 with question mark in left margin in red ink}

owl associated with death. {WGI 8/1 p6, WG 28/1 p22}

Owl as a symbol of death and treachery, a bird to be distrusted. [Legend of Llew Law Gyffes.] {WG 8/1 p16, 2WG 4/2 p1, 2WG 8/1 p2, WGII 8/1 p8}

Cranes and swans are sacred birds. Willows are sacred to the goddess, and cranes are thought to breed in willow groves. {WG 8/1 p13, WGI 8/1 p6, WGII 8/1 p7, WG 28/1 p23}

black doves: oracular {WG 8/1 p13, WGI 8/1 p5, WGII 8/1 p7, WG 28/1 p21}

ability to take omens from the flight of birds. {WG 8/1 p13, WGII 8/1 p7, WG 28/1 p23}

Wren considered a prophetic bird. Unlucky to kill a wren or take its eggs. {WG 8/1 p13, WGI 8/1 p5, WGII 8/1 p7, WG 28/1 p20 with question mark in left margin in red ink}

[Raven considered a prophetic bird] {WG 8/1 p13, WGI 8/1 p5; WGII 8/1 p7, WG 28/1 p20}

Flights of crows much observed by augurs. {WG 8/1 p13, WGII 8/1 p7, WG 28/1 p9}

?????The Aes Sedai are contemptuous of such things as telling the future by flights of birds, but many people bel;ieve.????? {WG 8/1 p13, WGII 8/1 p7}

Haruspices. [Haruspexes?] {WG 28/1 p9}

the Cards of the Wheel: Tarot. {WG 8/1 p13, WGII 8/1 p7, WG 28/1 p27}

Heads of dead men caused to become oracles. {WG 8/1 p6, WGII 8/1 p3, WG 28/1 p11}

Oracle sitting on a tripod over a vent from which fumes arise. {WG 28/1 p7}

Oracular drink of goat's milk and honey, drunk at dawn in the oracular cave. {WG 8/1 p15, WGII 8/1 p8, WG 28/1 p28}

'sealed with thirteen locks and locked with thirteen locks' {WG 8/1 p6, WGI 8/1 p3, WGII 8/1 p3, WG 28/1 p11}

the power of Death-in-Life and Life-in-Death. {WG 8/1 p6, WGI 8/1 p3, WGII 8/1 p3, WG 28/1 p12}

the sacrifice of white bulls {WGI 8/1 p3, WG 28/1 p13}

the V-symbol (and the delta?) symbolic of women, or perhaps sacred to a goddess. {WGI 8/1 p7, WG 28/1 p27}

a wind called "the Breath of ________>" {WGI 8/1 p7, WG 28/1 p28}
a hot wind called "the Breath of the Dragon" {WG 8/1 p18, WGII 8/1 p9}

the spirit of hinges and other things that connect and hold together. {WG 28/1 p9}

Kali wore a necklace of fifty skulls. {WG 28/1 p24}

Sailors tattooed with a star between thumb and forefinger of the left hand. {WG 8/1 p14, WGII 8/1 p7; WG 28/1 p22 with arrow pointing from left margin in red ink}

The myth of the man, heir to kingship, who slays his father, the king, at the urging of his patroness-goddess. {WG 8/1 p14, WGII 8/1 p7, WG 28/1 pp22-23}

the golden apple of immortality and wisdom. {WG 8/1 p14, WGII 8/1 p7, WG 28/1 p25}

apple as symbol of knowledge {WG 8/1 p12, WGII 8/1 p6, WG 28/1 p25}

wine made from blackberries is heady. {WG 8/1 p12, WGI 8/1 p5, WGII 8/1 p6; WG 28/1 p20 with question mark in left margin in red ink}

Pigs fed on acorns. {WG 8/1 p12, WGII 8/1 p7, WG 28/1 p22}

the seven pillars of widsom.
thirteen pillars, then seven pillars, then two.
{WG 8/1 p14, WGII 8/1 p7, WG 28/1 pp25-26}

the Bull-Footed God. {WG 8/1 p16, 2WG 4/2 p1, 2WG 8/1 p2, WGII 8/1 p8}

the heel as a site of vulnerability. {2WG 4/2 p1, 2WG 8/1 p2}

thumb: phallic
fore-finger: luck
middle finger: the fool's finger. (Also associated with sexuality, lust, etc. "Smelter of woman's passion.") Pointed at man as a sign of cuckoldry.
third finger: finger of physic, or healing.
little finger: oracular finger.
{WG 8/1 p14, WGI 8/1 p6, WGII 8/1 p7; WG 28/1 p24 with brace connecting these notes in left margin in red ink}

amethyst: a charm against drunkenness. {WGI 8/1 p6; WG 8/1 p14; WGII 8/1 p7, WG 28/1 p26: called "wine-stone" with [amethyst] added at end; latter file has arrow pointing from left margin in red ink}

white carnelian and yellow cairngorm {WGI 8/1 p6}: associasted {sic} with the hottest months. {WG 8/1 p14, WGII 8/1 p7, WG 28/1 p26}

banded red agate {WGI 8/1 p6}: associated with month before grapes are harvested. {WG 8/1 p14, WGII 8/1 p8, WG 28/1 p26}

blood-red carbuncle {WGI 8/1 p6}: the month of raiding. {WG 8/1 p14, WGII 8/1 p8, WG 28/1 p26}

lapis lazuli {WGI 8/1 p6}: the blue sky and the first month of summer. {WG 8/1 p15, WGII 8/1 p8, WG 28/1 p26}

light green jasper and dark green malachite {WGI 8/1 p6}: months of rain. {WG 8/1 p15, WGII 8/1 p8, WG 28/1 p26}

bright red fire-garnet {WGI 8/1 p7}: month of the Spring Equinox. {WG 8/1 p15, WGII 8/1 p8, WG 28/1 p26}

rusty-red sard {WGI 8/1 p7}: first month of the year. {WG 8/1 p15, WGII 8/1 p8, WG 28/1 p27}

green beryl {WGI 8/1 p7, "sea-green"}: the sea. {WG 8/1 p15, WGII 8/1 p8}

red sard {WGI 8/1 p7}

yellow chrysolite {WGI 8/1 p7}

fire-garnet {WGI 8/1 p7}

yellow serpentine {WGI 8/1 p7}

A medallion made of silver, gold, tin, lead, and copper. Possibly set with thirteen gems: red sard, yellow chrysolite, sea-green beryl, fire-garnet, blood-red carbuncle, lapis lazuli, white carnelian, yellow cairngorm, banded red agate, amethyst, yellow serpentine, clear green jasper and dark green malachite. {WG 28/1 p27}

birch tree: rods used to beat out evil spirits. Twigs do not toughen until late in the year (nor do those of willow or rowan). Tree of inception. First tree after the elder to put out new leaves. Its leafing marks the beginning of planting season [April 1 in England]. {WGI 8/1 p4, WG 28/1 p17; WG 8/1 p8, WGII 8/1 p4 prefaced by *****}

cradles made from birch for luck. {WG 8/1 p12, WGI 8/1 p5, WGII 8/1 p6; WG 28/1 p20 with question mark in left margin in red ink}

rowan: also called quickbeam, or mountain ash. {underlining in WG 8/1 p8 only} White flowers. Used as a prophylactic against lightning and witches. A bewitched horse can only be controlled with a whip of rowan. Fires of roward used to summon spirits. Berries of the rowan supposedly had the sustaining ability of nine meals, healed the wounded, and added a year to a man's life. Rowan berries, apples and red nut are described as the food of the gods. The tree of quickening. Wands for metal divining made of rowan. A rowan stake hammered through a corpse would immobilize its ghost. {WG 8/1 pp8-9, WGI 8/1 p4, WGII 8/1 p5; WG 28/1 pp17-18 with question mark in left margin in red ink}

ash: [sacred to Poseiden] wood is a charm against drowning. Tree of re-birth. [the Three Norns of Sandinavian {sic} legend, the Triple Goddess, dispensed justice under an ash] [Ygdrasill, sacred to Odin, was an ash, and was his steed] Has power over horses. Its shade is harmful to grass or corn.
{WGI 8/1 p4; WG 8/1 p9, WGII 8/1 p5 prefaced by *****; WG 28/1 p18 with question mark in left margin in red ink}

ash: used for spear shafts. {WGI 8/1 p2, WG 28/1 p5 with arrow pointing from left margin in red ink}

alder: grow by riversides. shade is beneficial to crops. Poor fuel, but yeilds the best charcoal. Proof against the corruptive influences of water. Indeed, it is longlasting as dock pilings. Green alder branches make good whistles (also pipes, as pan-pipes0. {sic} Such whistles were used by witches to summon up destructive winds. Used for making milk-pails and other dairy vessels. Alder, white poplar and cypress are trees of resurrection. Yeilds {corrected in WGII} three fine dyes: red from bark, green from flowers, brown from twigs (typifying fire, water and earth). When felled, the wood, at first white, seems to bleed crimson. Its buds are set in a spiral, symbolic of resurrection. {WG 8/1 p9, WGI 8/1 p4, WGII 8/1 p5, WG 28/1 p18}

willow: (or osier) Connected with death and the moon. [connected with witches, who worshipped it] Wicker is woven from willow, properly. [Druidic human sacrifices were held in wicker baskets] Tree loves water. Leaves and bark are sovereign against rheumatic cramps. Tree of eloquence, sacred to poets. Tree of enchantment. {WGI 8/1 p4; WG 8/1 p10, WGII 8/1 p5 prefaced by *****; WG 28/1 pp18-19 with question mark in left margin in red ink}

whitethorn: (or hawthorn) Unlucky. Cutting an ancient whitethorn brings disaster, the death of one's cattle and children, the loss of one's money.
{WG 8/1 p10, WGI 8/1 pp2,4 (combined); WGII 8/1 p5; WG 28/1 p5 with arrow pointing from left margin in red ink; WG 28/1 p19 with question mark in left margin in red ink (combined}rom left margin in red ink}

oak: associated with thunder. sacred fires fueled with oak. Guardian and door. Symbol of endurance and triumph. {WGI 8/1 p4; WG 8/1 p10, WGII 8/1 p5 prefaced by *****; WG 28/1 p19 with question mark in left margin in red ink}

oak: symbol of wisdom and strength. {WGI 8/1 p2, WG 28/1 p5 with arrow pointing from left margin in red ink}

holly: flowers in June. white flowers and red berries. sharp prickles and bitter bark. Tree of murder. {WGI 8/1 p5; WG 8/1 p10, WGII 8/1 p5 prefaced by *****; WG 28/1 p19 with question mark in left margin in red ink}

hazel: sweet nuts in a hard shell. Associated with beauty, wisdom and knowledge. Forked hazel stick used for diving buried treasure, water, rod. Supposedly drips a poisonous milk. Supposedly wood gave off a noxious and poisonous vapor. White hazel wands associated with judgement. {WGI 8/1 p5; WG 8/1 p10, WGII 8/1 p5 prefaced by *****; WG 28/1 p19 with question mark in left margin in red ink}

grape vine: joy, exhileration {sic} and wrath. resurrection. {WGI 8/1 p5; WG 8/1 p10, WGII 8/1 p6 prefaced by *****; WG 28/1 p19 with question mark in left margin in red ink}

ivy: (flowering) (yellow-beried {sic} ivy honored Dionysius) resurrection. Chewed for toxic affect {sic?} can induce a frenzy. Flowers visited by last bees of the year. {WGI 8/1 p5; WG 8/1 p11, WGII 8/1 p6 prefaced by *****; WG 28/1 p19 with question mark in left margin in red ink}

elder: waterside tree associated with witches. Associated with death. White flowers, best at midsummer. Burning elder will 'bring the devil into the house.' Tree of doom.
Notoriously bad fuel, but a remedy for fevers, scalds and burns.
{WG 28/1 p5 with arrow pointing from left margin in red ink; WG 28/1 p20 with question mark in left margin in red ink (combined); WGI 8/1 p5, WGI 8/1 pp2 (combined); WG 8/1 p11, WGII 8/1 p6, WGII 8/1 p6}

cornel: (or dogwood) crows feed on its red berries. Yields a red dye. Used for javelin shafts [Rommulus' javelin, used to determine site of founding of Rom, had such a shaft] {WG 8/1 p11, WGI 8/1 p5, WGII 8/1 p6, WG 28/1 p20 with question mark in left margin in red ink}

laurel: an oracular tree {WG 8/1 p12, WGI 8/1 p5, WGII 8/1 p6, WG 28/1 p20 with question mark in left margin in red ink}

silver fir: considered female. connected with child-birth. likes sandy soil and sea breezes. {WG 8/1 p11, WGI 8/1 pp5-6, WGII 8/1 p6, WG 28/1 p21}

furze: (or gorse) prickles and golden flowers. Furze-fires lighted on the hills at the spring equinox. Burning encourages growth of grass and burns away old prickles, making tender new sprouts grow as food for the sheep. Flowers frequented by first bees of the year. 'good against witches' {WG 8/1 pp11-12, WGI 8/1 p6, WGII 8/1 p6, WG 28/1 p21}

heather: [sacred to Venus and to Isis] Midsummer tree, red and passionate, associated with mountains and bees. White heather is lucky, being a protection against acts of passion. {WG 8/1 p12, WGI 8/1 p6, WGII 8/1 p6; WG 28/1 pp21-22 with question mark in left margin in red}

aspen: (or white poplar) Tree of the autumn equinox and of old age. the shield maker's tree. {WG 8/1 p12, WGI 8/1 p6, WGII 8/1 p6, WG 28/1 p22}

yew: the death tree. Bulls to be sacrificed wreathed in yew. Seasoned and polished, it will not rot for a very long time. {WG 8/1 p12, WGI 8/1 p6, WGII 8/1 p6; WG 28/1 p22 with question mark in red in left margin}

blackthorn: carried as a walking stick by witches, believed to casue miscariages {sic}. Blackthorn used as walking sticks by many, and as cudgel-staffs, but also believed to be used in magic.
{WG 8/1 p11, WGI 8/1 p6; WGII 8/1 p6, WG 28/1 p25 with minor differences; the latter has a correction of "casue" in red ink}

blackthorn and yew: symbols of strength, masculinity and war. {WG 8/1 p12, WGI 8/1 p2, WGII 8/1 p6, WG 28/1 p5 with arrow pointing from left margin in red ink}

primrose: a symbol of wantonness and dalliance. {WG 8/1 p3, WGI 8/1 p2, WGII 8/1 p2, WG 28/1 p5 with arrow pointing from left margin in red ink}

wild-apple: thought to have power in love-charms adn aphrodasiacs. {sic} {WG 8/1 p3, WGI 8/1 p2, WGII 8/1 p2, WG 28/1 p5 with arrow pointing from left margin in red ink}

fionwe1987
01-25-2016, 01:27 PM
MAIDEN-NYMPH-HAG trio:

Who are these? I can see Hag for Cadsuane, maybe Nymph for Nynaeve, but Maiden doesn't really fit Moiraine. It fits Egwene, but she doesn't quite play a role that is contiguous with Nynaeve and Cadsuane. Thoughts?

Terez
01-25-2016, 01:50 PM
I doubt RJ worried much about following this parallel in the end. Most of this stuff didn't end up in the books in the way that he seems to have originally intended. That said, Moiraine isn't really a bad fit for the Maiden. She was a virgin, unless you count Siuan (and knowing the way RJ thought about this sort of thing, he probably didn't count Siuan). Moiraine was a virgin for longer than Nynaeve was.

Kimon
01-25-2016, 05:36 PM
I doubt RJ worried much about following this parallel in the end. Most of this stuff didn't end up in the books in the way that he seems to have originally intended. That said, Moiraine isn't really a bad fit for the Maiden. She was a virgin, unless you count Siuan (and knowing the way RJ thought about this sort of thing, he probably didn't count Siuan). Moiraine was a virgin for longer than Nynaeve was.

The idea of the Triple Goddess usually tends to be linked with the Moon Goddess in three forms - Artemis (maiden), Selene (nymph - literally the moon), Hekate (crone/witch). Sometimes with Hera or Athena, though. Sometimes with the three goddesses of the Judgment of Paris - Hera, Athena, and Aphrodite. That last would be more queen, maiden, whore though than maiden, nymph, crone. I'd have to think that it should at least include Moiraine and Lanfear. He even had Lanfear take the alias Selene, and associated her with the Moon. Lanfear also pretended to be a crone - Sylvie. The third seems less clear. Maybe Egwene. Maybe he originally had in mind though Morgase (queen), Moiraine (maiden), Lanfear (whore).

The Unreasoner
01-25-2016, 09:20 PM
Arainrhod: [castle where men wait to be reborn. a frigid place.] {WG 8/1 p19, WGII 8/1 p10, WG 28/1 p13}

*erhem*

Vron: [head was buried on the White Hill, where Tower of London is now, as a protection against invasion.] {WG 8/1 p19, WGII 8/1 p10, WG 28/1 p10}

Lmfao. "They watched for the wrong thing, and forgot when they should have been remembering"

A GODDESS WHO LIVES A CERTAIN AGE, DIES, AND IS REBORN, EACH INCARNATION LIVING EXACTLY THAT NUMBER OF YEARS. {WG 28/1 p22}

Egwene? I still don't know why she died.

?????There are gods, or beings so powerful as to be considered gods, beings perhaps in some ways as powerful as Sa'Khan, or possibly even more so, but they are invariably of little or no help. There {sic} aid is withheld, or circumscribed, or more harmful than good, or at best delivers less than was hoped and promised. This is a thread which must run through: mankind must depend on itself, not on the help of all-powerful gods. {2WG 8/1 pp1-2}

The Finn?

the Cards of the Wheel: Tarot. {WG 8/1 p13, WGII 8/1 p7, WG 28/1 p27}

I may need to reread Mat's first scene in TSR...and Siuan's in NS.

Terez
01-25-2016, 10:37 PM
Lmfao. "They watched for the wrong thing, and forgot when they should have been remembering"
Good catch.

The Finn?
More like the Heroes, or even the Creator.

I may need to reread Mat's first scene in TSR...and Siuan's in NS.
It's definitely Tarot. Five suits, etc.

fionwe1987
01-25-2016, 11:08 PM
I doubt RJ worried much about following this parallel in the end. Most of this stuff didn't end up in the books in the way that he seems to have originally intended. That said, Moiraine isn't really a bad fit for the Maiden. She was a virgin, unless you count Siuan (and knowing the way RJ thought about this sort of thing, he probably didn't count Siuan). Moiraine was a virgin for longer than Nynaeve was.

Hmmm... we're saying Moiraine was a virgin as of EotW? Somehow I highly doubt that. I mean, she was quite the prude in NS with Siuan having fun with the servant, but I certainly hope RJ didn't write her as someone who never overcame that.

And great catch on Vron!

As for moon goddesses, Egwene and Lanfear are the best matches. Good point that he may not have stuck to these mythological parallels perfectly..

Terez
01-25-2016, 11:10 PM
Hmmm... we're saying Moiraine was a virgin as of EotW? Somehow I highly doubt that. I mean, she was quite the prude in NS with Siuan having fun with the servant, but I certainly hope RJ didn't write her as someone who never overcame that.
I'm pretty sure it's confirmed in her thoughts, as it was with all the main ladies. I'll look for it later.

fionwe1987
01-25-2016, 11:22 PM
I'm pretty sure it's confirmed in her thoughts, as it was with all the main ladies. I'll look for it later.

I must have blanked it out. It is disappointing, if so. He had no issues showing us that some Reds had sex lives with men. Why in the world have all your major adult characters not have one too? Lan is clearly implied to have a sex life, so I'd be quote disappointed if it turns out Moiraine did not, as well.

Terez
01-25-2016, 11:27 PM
I must have blanked it out. It is disappointing, if so. He had no issues showing us that some Reds had sex lives with men. Why in the world have all your major adult characters not have one too? Lan is clearly implied to have a sex life, so I'd be quote disappointed if it turns out Moiraine did not, as well.
Because virginity is an ideal for a lot of men. RJ went out of his way to confirm the virginity of all Rand's women, even Min. Perrin got a virgin too, and Mat, and Thom and Bryne too. The only significant other who wasn't a virgin was Berelain, and I'm not entirely sure RJ intended her to end up with Galad. But either way, no virgin was in store for Galad; it was either Berelain or Egwene, who would have been pregnant with Gawyn's child. Kind of ironic that Mr. Pure was the only one to get robbed of his virgin.

fionwe1987
01-25-2016, 11:59 PM
Because virginity is an ideal for a lot of men. RJ went out of his way to confirm the virginity of all Rand's women, even Min. Perrin got a virgin too, and Mat, and Thom and Bryne too. The only significant other who wasn't a virgin was Berelain, and I'm not entirely sure RJ intended her to end up with Galad. But either way, no virgin was in store for Galad; it was either Berelain or Egwene, who would have been pregnant with Gawyn's child. Kind of ironic that Mr. Pure was the only one to get robbed of his virgin.

I know Min was confirmed a virgin, and Elayne, of course, but where do we find that about Aviendha? And Siuan? I'm pretty sure no Siuan quote exists proving she's a virgin, but maybe I blanked that one out too.

Terez
01-26-2016, 12:10 AM
I know Min was confirmed a virgin, and Elayne, of course, but where do we find that about Aviendha? And Siuan? I'm pretty sure no Siuan quote exists proving she's a virgin, but maybe I blanked that one out too.
A couple years ago I could have found these quotes with no trouble, but it might take a little while now. Pretty sure this isn't the only quote relevant to Aviendha, but it works:

"You belong to the near-sister of my near-sister. I have toh to Elayne, now, but that is none of your concern. Are you going to lie there forever? I have heard that men turn lazy, after, but it cannot be long until the clans are ready to begin the morning's march. You must be there."
Meaning, she has no first-hand experience.

C Rutherford
01-26-2016, 12:15 AM
Yes. Brandon has talked about how some new characters in his books were drawn from the notes. Often there's not much to build on, maybe just a name and location (e.g. at Dumai's Wells).


Some, but not much. An effort was made to include all that in the Encyclopedia.


Yes. Again, not much. I asked Maria about Serafelle (which I think I mentioned somewhere?) and she couldn't remember the exact reason that info wasn't included, but she offered a few suggestions including that they might have encountered a continuity problem somewhere.


I posted this spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ap0dMXuPtrhZnvGwFj-J6OiFVNWw0WHr3FyiF4gxlhU/) which I made up for a friend before the Encyclopedia came out. You can mine it for differences; I haven't changed it since the book came out. There are some mouseover notes, but the list is kind of lazily thrown together and based on the combined efforts of me and Dom (probably mostly Dom) from some time in 2014.


My New Year has mostly been forcibly relaxed; I needed a break from work. At first I thought this series was going to be the diversion I needed, but then I got to the White Goddess files and all of a sudden it was hard work. So I got me a real diversion, and I'm good now, and working on the next post. :)


Thanks for these. And thanks for the table. I notice some names right off that are not in the guide or recognizable. Kin and Windfinders it seems. And holy bazunga that is a huge post you just made! Some really interesting reading ahead. Thanks for giving us what Tor should have imo.

ETA:
It could be that they realized that in the books Jordan had established that only one Brown and one Gray were in the Tower group that kidnapped Rand. So Serafelle being there would be a problem. Of course her exclusion based on that makes the inclusion in the Companion of other Grays and Browns even sillier. It would have been nice if what they did was include everything and note where it contradicts what he ended up using in the books. But there is almost an odd religious dogma involved but maybe part of that comes from having to carefully guard stuff so they can keep pretending the same 'legacy being fulfilled' approach they took when they announced the series would continue after his death. There is a weird 'he was complete' that actually robs his legacy so much in that of course he changed his mind. That makes his work stronger. Not weaker or less imo.

Terez
01-26-2016, 03:10 AM
It could be that they realized that in the books Jordan had established that only one Brown and one Gray were in the Tower group that kidnapped Rand. So Serafelle being there would be a problem.
Good point. I had forgotten that. I had to go find the quote:

They had stopped early of necessity today, and the afternoon sun made long shadows of the tents and wagons beside the road. Rolling plains and low hills surrounded the camp, with only a few scattered thickets in sight, most sparse and small. Thirty-three Aes Sedai added to the original six, with their servants— and Warders; nine were Green, only thirteen Red, and the rest White, Alviarin's former Ajah—made a considerable encampment even without counting Gawyn and his soldiers.
There is a list on EWOT (http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/organizations/aes_sedai/index.html) of the named sisters in the delegation:

Coiren Saeldain — Gray Ajah — captured
Erian Boroleos — Green Ajah — captured
Galina Casban — Red Ajah — captured by the Shaido
Katerine Alruddin — Red Ajah — captured
Nesune Bihara — Brown Ajah — captured
Sarene Nemdahl — White Ajah — captured
Amira Moselle — Red Ajah — killed
Beldeine Nyram — Green Ajah — captured
Chisaine Nurbaya — Red Ajah — captured
Covarla Baldene — Red Ajah — escaped
Elza Penfell — Green Ajah — captured
Fera — White Ajah — captured
Hattori — Green Ajah — escaped
Innina Darenhold — Red Ajah — captured
Irgain Fatamed — Green Ajah — stilled and captured
Janine Pavlara — Red Ajah — captured
Laigin Arnault — Red Ajah — killed
Lusonia Cole — escaped
Marith Riven - captured
Mayam
Ronaille Vevanios — stilled and captured
Sashalle Anderly — Red Ajah - stilled and captured
Vayelle Kamsa — Red Ajah - captured
Turanna Norill — White Ajah - captured
Vasha — Green Ajah - escaped

This is RJ's list, with Ajah and given status, from the Aes Sedai file in Box 55, pp. 112-114 (this is not copied word for word except when quotes are given):

1) Galina Casban - Red/Black - captured by Shaido
2) Coiren Saeldain - Gray - captured by Rand
3) Katerine Alruddin - Red/Black - captured by Rand; "Escaped from captivity among the Aiel [?after ?? days in the tents?] with the aid of Darkfriend Aiel with whom she made contact almost by accident."
4) Beldeine Nyram - Green - captured by Rand
5) Turanna Norill - White - captured by Rand
6) Cairlyn Nesolle - Yellow - captured by Rand
7) Erian Boroleos - Green - captured by Rand
8) Covarla Baldene - Red - escaped
9) Sarene Nemdahl - White - captured by Rand
10) Marith Riven - Brown - captured by Rand
11) Nesune Bihara - Brown - captured by Rand
12) Mayam Colomna - White - captured by Rand
13) Elza Penfell - Green/Black - captured by Rand
14) Fera Sormen - White/Black - captured by Rand
15) Vayelle Kamsa - Red - captured by Rand
16) Janine Pavlara - Red - captured by Rand
17) Irgain Fatamed - Green - stilled and captured by Rand
18) Sashalle - Red - stilled and captured by Rand
19) Ronaille Talmoran - White - stilled and captured by Rand
20) Caren Endelle - Red - escaped with Covarla
21) Dolera Meith - Red - escaped with Covarla
22) Valene Sural - Red - escaped with Covarla
23) Chisaine Nurbaya - Red - captured by Rand
24) Innina Darenhold - Red - captured by Rand
25) Hattori Gatano - Green - escaped with Covarla
26) Lusonia Colewin - Green - escaped with Covarla
27) Sanaiye Asaheen - Green - escaped with Covarla
28) Nelavaire Demasiellin - Green - captured by Rand
29) Teire Alentaine - Gray - escaped with Covarla
30) Elaiva Walfor - Gray - captured by Rand
31) Nalaene Forrell - Yellow - captured by Rand
32) Serafelle Tanisloe - Brown - escaped with Covarla
33) Razina Hazzan - Brown - captured by Rand
34) Chai Rugan - Brown - escaped with Covarla
35) Wyndera Ovan - White - escaped with Covarla
36) Nubei Peldovni - White - escaped with Covarla
37) Mirlene Cornwell - Green - killed at Dumai's Wells
38) Laigin Arnault - Red - killed at Dumai's Wells
39) Amira Mosalle - Red - killed at Dumai's Wells
As for the Browns and Grays and Yellows (not Coiren and Nesune): Cairlyn, Marith Riven, Teire, Elaiva, Nalaene, and Razina all got mentions in the Companion. Serafelle and Chai Rugan got entries but there was no mention of their having been at Dumai's Wells. Marith Riven and Nalaene were mentioned in the books as having been there, but their Ajahs were never given (except Black for Nalaene, and Chai Rugan).

C Rutherford
01-27-2016, 05:39 PM
Delayed due to board having a stroke but.....


Ohhh yeah! I'm like the whole strength issues well enough but there is something about lists (which I guess the strength tables are an extension of) that I just love! I have always been sad not to know who the unnamed sisters are in Siuan's delegation to Fal Fara. I wanted to know who all Cadsuane's coterie were. Who was with Illesien in those tents. Heck I wanted to know who the Red was that Rahvin got his hands on and then ran off when Rand came across her (part of an over all list of Reds).

I think in part it taps into the completeness of world building I get such a kick out of. When RJ mentions someone and they later show up -- Maigan, Maris, Atuan and Bennae. Or Serafelle for that matter.

Every time I got to add to the list of Sitters in any of the Halls I felt a tiny little sense of accomplishment.

So.

Thank you. Even if it seems he did not use this. I wonder what his reasoning was for change? Simple math? By the time of Egwene being captured by Elaida, the Whites had to be pretty thin on the floor in the Tower with the split, the kidnapping and the attack on the Black Tower. Maybe he meant it to go the other way and he never fixed it or meant to like he did the Joiya error in Ajah.

Terez
01-27-2016, 07:35 PM
Ohhh yeah! I'm like the whole strength issues well enough but there is something about lists (which I guess the strength tables are an extension of) that I just love! I have always been sad not to know who the unnamed sisters are in Siuan's delegation to Fal Fara. I wanted to know who all Cadsuane's coterie were. Who was with Illesien in those tents.
Yeah, me too. Aside from Dumai's Wells and the Hall, my biggest curiosity was Toveine's group. I was actually kind of surprised to find these lists in the notes because I had never thought RJ would be quite that thorough.

Anyway, all in due time, but since you demonstrated that you had already investigated Dumai's Wells and the Serafelle continuity in the Companion, I figured you had earned a preview of Aes Sedai 55. ;)

C Rutherford
01-27-2016, 08:38 PM
:D:D:D

rand
01-27-2016, 11:49 PM
Man, I'm seriously jealous of RJ's notes. If anything I write ever gets published the notes would consist of elegible scrawls on scrap paper and some doodles on napkins. Not that I likely have to worry about it winding up in a library anyway...

And holy crap, did you really get 732 people to view this thread all at once and blow the site up?

Terez
01-27-2016, 11:51 PM
There were over 2000 people who viewed the thread in a 24-hour period; 732 was just the most there were at one time. But that's not what blew the site up. According to bossman, it was an accumulation of spam on the home page.

The Unreasoner
01-28-2016, 02:59 PM
There were over 2000 people who viewed the thread in a 24-hour period; 732 was just the most there were at one time. But that's not what blew the site up. According to bossman, it was an accumulation of spam on the home page.
Congrats?

Terez
01-29-2016, 03:36 AM
Congrats?
I'm glad it wasn't my fault the site blew up. I should elaborate that it was an accumulation of spam over time that did it, so it wasn't like a Twitter or reddit link attracted a bunch of Twitter and reddit spambots. (I asked; bossman said that wasn't it.)

As to the forum record, that says more about the interest in RJ's notes than it says about me. I think everyone here knows I'm happy to deliver, though the lazy part of me wishes I could have just "hoovered up the whole collection and put it online", in the (paraphrased) words of the great Alan Romanczuk.

Terez
01-29-2016, 05:05 AM
From here on I will be moving through Box 8, Folder 1. There are more files relevant to our interests in this folder than there were in Box 4, so it will take a while to get through it.

The first file I'll summarize is called "ADVICE TO NEW WRITERS: A Listing of Useful Tips, Hints and Information. Copyright 1985, Robert Jordan". File heading: ADVICE TO NEW WRITERS -- JORDAN. It is 7 pages, single-spaced, long paragraphs and (by eyeball) 12-point font.

This is one that I am hoping Team Jordan will put on the internet in full one day, but for now, you get a summary with some quotes.

The file begins:

You will note that I have entitled this ADVICE TO NEW WRITERS, not ADVICE TO YOUNG WRITERS. This is because I do not believe you have to be particularly young to begin writing, nor any particular age at all.
He then goes on to give his own story, and then a few examples of writers who started young, including Gore Vidal. One important detail that I don't think (??) he ever mentioned in the interviews we have in the database: he submitted his first manuscript at age 18. Then he didn't start writing again until he was 30, when he had a workplace injury (that part is well known).

Much of the advice on publishing that RJ gives in this file is probably outdated, since self-publishing has changed the market so much. I think Brandon has probably written something similar that reflects modern submission guidelines, though I couldn't find anything dedicated to that topic on a quick google. I know he's talked about it in interviews, though.

RJ recommends a book called Writer's Market ("which should be available at your local library"—later he recommends against buying it because much of the information is out of date; he recommends finding a current edition of Literary Marketplace instead) for an overview on how to prepare a manuscript, and he adds advice like "No staples, no brads, no post-and-screw mounts."

NOTE: I will shift back and forth from he to she in this when referring to the editor. Most editors, in my experience, are women, but there are a goodly number of male editors as well. Too great an attempt at writing that is sex-bias free makes for stilted writing.
He then has more advice about preparing manuscripts, formatting, hints about the editor's perspective and why she wants it exactly this way. Perhaps the most relevant bit of advice for today's writers:

Sample chapters should be the first three or four of the book, up to a maximum of fifty or sixty manuscript pages. DO NOT pick out what you consider the best or most exciting chapters of the book. This is a sign of amateurism that will almost certainly get your work rejected out of hand. Sending the first three or four chapters lets an editor see how you intend to hook the reader and how you handle development and continuity.

His essential book recommendations: by Lawrence Block, Telling Lies for Fun and Profit and Writing the Novel: from Plot to Print; Writing and Selling Science Fiction (Science Fiction Writers of America) and Mystery Writer's Handbook (Mystery Writers of America); Elements of Style (Strunk and White), Fowler's Modern English Usage, "any of the Harbrace College English Handbooks", and a "GOOD" dictionary.

Words and language are a writer's tools. A man who wants to work with computers or cars knows he has to learn how to use them; too many people assume they can use words and language just because they can read, write, and talk. Very, very few people can.
He then recommends subscribing to Writer's Digest, if for no other reason than a monthly Lawrence Block column.

IMPORTANT: The most common problem in the early manuscripts of most writers is point of view, which editors contract to POV. In any scene the POV character is the character through whose eyes the reader sees the scene. It is not necessary to continually say "John saw," or "John heard." If the scene is done properly the reader gets the idea with none, or at least a minimum, of this. The POV character is the only character in a scene whose thoughts are known. You cannot get inside the head of more than one character in a scene without losing POV.
He then notes that showing is preferred over telling, and active constructions are preferred over passive ones. He advises the writer to READ, not just for pleasure, but to learn, always asking yourself what it is, exactly, that makes the writing good. He advises against trying to "catch the wave" of whatever thing is currently ground-breaking, because it's always too late. "It is best to write the book you want to write". He also recommends avoiding influence from whatever is popular on TV or in theaters.

Complete your manuscript before making a submission. It is true that most houses only want to see an outline and some sample chapters (again, these should always be the first three or four, never chapters picked because you think they are the best in the book), however, unless you have a known track record (i.e. unless you have had books bought by this house before, or published elsewhere, so they can have some idea of your abilities over a complete manuscript), the publishing house will, if they think the sample chapters and outline indicate the book will be something they might want to publish, ask to see the rest of the manuscript. Only writers with long track records get contracts based solely on outline and sample chapters or outline alone.
RJ advises you to keep a copy of your manuscript, along with some outdated advice on carbon copies vs Xerox copies. He advises against mentioning previous submissions and rejections to new publishers. He advises against sending "shopworn" manuscripts to new publishers. He advises against amateurish "tricks like turning a particular page upside down to see if the editor actually read that far".

Write. WRITE. WRITE! Submit. SUBMIT. SUBMIT! Write every day. It doesn't matter what the schedule is so long as you stick to it. A certain number of pages a day. A certain number of hours a day. Just do it. And as soon as you finish a short story, a magazine piece, or a novel, then submit it to a market. When it goes into the mail, start writing the next immediately. If the piece comes back (and it probably will, in the beginning), send it out again. When the second is in the mail, start the third. If the first and the second come back, send them out again. And again. And again. Send the third out. And write the fourth piece. And the fifth. And send them out. And so on, and so on. No manuscript ever sold sitting in a drawer. JONATHON {sic} LIVINGSTON SEAGULL went to nineteen publishers before being accepted.
He then advises against rewriting based on rejection comments; he says you should only rewrite based on the comments of an invested editor, unless you get the exact same comments with at least three rejections. He says if a rejection offers another look contingent on certain changes, "then you have a decision to make".

He advises you to keep your rejection letters for tax purposes, as they demonstrate that you are attempting to make a living from writing, which makes certain expenses tax-deductible. (Really.)

Final quote:

The above is a quick and dirty course in becoming a writer. It isn't a complete course, but it does cover most of the essentials of what I say to college writing classes and those who come my panels {sic} on how to write at science fiction conventions. It is enough to get you started, for it contains information that most beginning writers take years to acquire, if they ever do. You may well be saying by this time that most if not all of the rules I have given above are broken now and again (sometimes frequently) by experienced writers. The key word there is experienced. You are not experienced. In time you will be, and then you can decide which rules you want to break and how to break them. You will be able to do it on purpose, though, and not by accident. For now, my advice is to take the above rules as Words from On High.

Good luck, and good writing.

Davian93
01-29-2016, 11:27 AM
Write. WRITE. WRITE! Submit. SUBMIT. SUBMIT! Write every day. It doesn't matter what the schedule is so long as you stick to it. A certain number of pages a day. A certain number of hours a day. Just do it. And as soon as you finish a short story, a magazine piece, or a novel, then submit it to a market.

You hear that, George RR Martin?!? YOU FREAKING HEAR THAT, YOU LAZY FUCK???

Terez
01-29-2016, 11:40 AM
This is called ADVICE TO NEW WRITERS, not ADVICE TO WRITERS WHO HAVE ALREADY MADE A BILLION DOLLARS.

Davian93
01-29-2016, 12:14 PM
He's a new writer in the sense that formerly promiscuous girls that suddenly don't have sex anymore are "reborn virgins"...

rand
01-29-2016, 11:33 PM
The writing advice is pretty cool. I hope they do allow it to be published in full at some point. Any idea what RJ's intentions were with writing it? It doesn't seem like he ever showed it to the public (until now). Unless he just whipped it out for friends or stuff like that.

Terez
01-30-2016, 06:59 AM
The writing advice is pretty cool. I hope they do allow it to be published in full at some point. Any idea what RJ's intentions were with writing it? It doesn't seem like he ever showed it to the public (until now). Unless he just whipped it out for friends or stuff like that.
I suspect it was a form letter for responding to fan mail. I said that in my tweet; I should have said it in the post, I guess.

sleepinghour
03-01-2016, 09:48 AM
Team Jordan posted some of RJ's notes about the Cleansing (http://plus.google.com/103674399065634804648/posts/hnTs16yE1tx) at their Google+ page a few weeks ago. The file contains a list of all characters present and the current strength of all female channelers on Rand's side. Cadsuane's strength was given as 5/+8. Nynaeve is still one level below her potential.


PARTY TO SHADAR LOGOTH: Rand, Min, *Nynaeve (Yellow; 4/+9), Lan, *Cadsuane (Green; 5/+8), *Alivia ( 1/+12; with Nynaeve’s jewelry), *Verin (Brown; 17/5; Tomas), *Corele Hovian (Yellow; 18/6; Damer); *Merise (Green; 14/2; Jahar, Nethan, Bassane); *Daigian (White; 45/33; Eben Hopwil); *Kumira Dhoran (Brown; 24/12; none); *Nesune Bihara (Brown; 15/3); *Sarene Nemdahl (White; 18/6), Erian Boroleos (Green; 17/5); *Elza Penfell (Green; 25/13); *Beldeine Nyram (Green; 16/4). *Shalon, Harine, Moad.


The rest of the file is a brief bulletpoint summary of the various battles between the Forsaken and Cadsuane's team, but doesn't provide much information beyond what was already in the book. RJ's summary does suggest Cyndane tried to balefire Alivia; I don't think that's ever implied in the book. Cyndane attacks Alivia with a small ball of Fire, which is unraveled by Alivia's ter'angreal, but there's nothing in the text to suggest it was balefire. So maybe RJ changed his mind about that (he did insert a question mark there), or it happened off-screen.

*Cyndane encounters Alivia, balefire (?) breaks, and she is driven back.

There's also a recent post about the origins of Valan Luca's circus (http://plus.google.com/103674399065634804648/posts/32YC9wAmkZ3).

Terez
03-02-2016, 01:46 AM
Team Jordan posted some of RJ's notes about the Cleansing (http://plus.google.com/103674399065634804648/posts/hnTs16yE1tx) at their Google+ page a few weeks ago.
Someone mentioned this to me on Facebook the other day because they thought I had posted it. I told them I hadn't, but maybe Team Jordan had posted it on Google+. I hadn't gotten around to checking, though. Glad he didn't just imagine it. :) This file is in Box 59, so I wouldn't have gotten to it for a long time.

JonathanLevy
06-17-2016, 06:44 PM
It must really be a delight to poke through these boxes and see how the Wheel of Time came about. This is exactly the type of material I had fondly hoped would be in the Companion. At the same time, it must really be a sisyphian task. Your determination is also much appreciated.

I patiently (and eagerly) await your next post here, as I am sure do many others.

Terez
06-19-2016, 02:30 AM
Hi there! I could have sworn you'd posted here before. For those who don't remember, Mr. Levy was one of the more helpful people in the last WOTGH where we decoded the Cadsuane bio.

Apologies for the long slack on this project--partly that's because I don't want to dump it all at once, and partly it's because I'll take any excuse to be lazy. We did a panel on the notes at JordanCon, so that made me feel like I did my bit for a little while.

I think I will feel a little more inclined to spend time on this once GOT is over. I'm going a reread and a rewatch so that kind of sucks up all my free time. That and Dragon Ball Super, but that show doesn't take hiatuses so it will continue to occupy me at least one night a week for the foreseeable future.

Rand al'Fain
06-19-2016, 12:56 PM
Hi there! I could have sworn you'd posted here before. For those who don't remember, Mr. Levy was one of the more helpful people in the last WOTGH where we decoded the Cadsuane bio.

Apologies for the long slack on this project--partly that's because I don't want to dump it all at once, and partly it's because I'll take any excuse to be lazy. We did a panel on the notes at JordanCon, so that made me feel like I did my bit for a little while.

I think I will feel a little more inclined to spend time on this once GOT is over. I'm going a reread and a rewatch so that kind of sucks up all my free time. That and Dragon Ball Super, but that show doesn't take hiatuses so it will continue to occupy me at least one night a week for the foreseeable future.

Can't blame you on Super. Considering the new arc and everything.

Terez
06-19-2016, 02:44 PM
I have been watching it live since the U6 tournament arc began.

Rand al'Fain
06-19-2016, 10:20 PM
I have been watching it live since the U6 tournament arc began.

Been following it as I can.

And really looking forward to whenever Funimation gets the dubbing rights.

Terez
06-19-2016, 10:28 PM
I have gotten to the point where I don't care about the dub any more. I've known the Japanese voices for a long time because I got a bootleg fansub of movies 11-13 before Funimation released them. Now I'm so used to them that the English voices sound weird to me. Masako Nozawa's evil Goku is so perfect!

I should probably stop blabbing about DBS though... some people are probably subscribed to this thread.

GonzoTheGreat
06-20-2016, 03:51 AM
I should probably stop blabbing about DBS though... some people are probably subscribed to this thread.
Jedi hand wave: "this is not the Dragon you were thinking of."

JonathanLevy
06-24-2016, 02:32 PM
Hi there! I could have sworn you'd posted here before. For those who don't remember, Mr. Levy was one of the more helpful people in the last WOTGH where we decoded the Cadsuane bio.

Apologies for the long slack on this project--partly that's because I don't want to dump it all at once, and partly it's because I'll take any excuse to be lazy. We did a panel on the notes at JordanCon, so that made me feel like I did my bit for a little while.


Hi there Terez :)

I was also quite sure I had an account, but my mind drew a complete blank when it came to furnishing any details. This thread was a good enough reason to open a new one.

Ah, memories! I think I still have the java code I wrote while working on the Cadsuane text. I made sure to grab it from my computer before I left my last job. Probably shouldn't have been doing that at work... but the temptation was irresistible. Hope my new employer doesn't read this :)

Enjoy your GoT re-read/watch. I can sympathize - finally splurged on the World of Ice and Fire book... should arrive in the mail in a week or two. Maybe I'll even buy the BBoBA... now that would be something.

Terez
04-25-2017, 07:27 PM
This comes from the tag end of an incomplete file we got last time we went to the library. I got the rest of the file today. This is something a lot of people wonder about, so I'll share the whole passage.

[Box 61 Fol 18]
Page 128

WHAT NYNAEVE AND ELAYNE NEED IN THE TOWER:

The first attempt at using "need" by Nynaeve and Elayne led them, not to Ebou Dar and the Bowl of the Winds, but to the Tower, to a chamber where "unknown" ter'angreal are kept under guard. There is something in that particular cache, or maybe more than one something, which in some way fit their "needs" at that point. And it came up first! Perhaps another weather controlling device? What other needs did they have then? Personally, they were in Salidar, once again treated as Accepted, even if Elayne was a fair-haired girl because of her new-found ability to make ter'angreal. Nynaeve still suffered from her block. What else? They were excluded from the councils and decisions, not knowing what was being decided or why. Was either of them using the "real" dream-ring, or were both force [sic] to use copies at this point? They were being forced to give lessons in Tel'aran'rhiod to sisters who were fractious pupils and condescending at best. WHAT ELSE? On a larger scale, what did they or do they need long-term? What about Aes Sedai as a whole? Long-term dangers and/or problems include the Seanchan, the Black Tower, the Forsaken, the approach of the Last Battle, increasing disorder in the world, the division in the Tower, and the Black Ajah. Other things?

X

GonzoTheGreat
04-26-2017, 04:39 AM
Left out of that list is something else they had figured out they needed: a way to make the AS cooperate with Rand rather than having them try (and fail) to control him.

Terez
04-26-2017, 06:12 AM
I also neglected to mention that these were KOD-era notes focusing on Egwene. As with many long files, there are remnants of earlier mindsets in this one. The notes were carried over and updated.

GonzoTheGreat
04-26-2017, 09:29 AM
Loial explained it to Rand:
"Um, yes, well. Not exactly. You see, the Wheel of Time weaves the Pattern of the Ages, and the threads it uses are lives. It is not fixed, the Pattern, not always. If a man tries to change the direction of his life and the Pattern has room for it, the Wheel just weaves on and takes it in. There is always room for small changes, but sometimes the Pattern simply won't accept a big change, no matter how hard you try. You understand?"What can be seen in the notes is what would have been if Nynaeve* had not decided to change the direction of her life. Plus maybe some optional extra directions it could have taken.

* She seems the more likely culprit, here. I could be wrong, of course.

Terez
04-26-2017, 12:34 PM
Just shared this bit from Carlinya's entry on Facebook, so I might as well share here too:

Min saw a tattoo of a raven; SHE IS FATED TO BE CAPTURED BY THE SEANCHAN AND MADE DAMANE.

sleepinghour
04-26-2017, 02:53 PM
Just shared this bit from Carlinya's entry on Facebook, so I might as well share here too:

Min saw a tattoo of a raven; SHE IS FATED TO BE CAPTURED BY THE SEANCHAN AND MADE DAMANE.



This made me headdesk a bit, but I'm glad we finally know. The earlier explanation—that ravens also symbolize the Dark One; Carlinya was killed by the Black Ajah—never seemed particularly plausible.

I wonder if RJ planned to have Mat run into her at some point and set her free. Carlinya was frequently described as cold and snooty to the Super Girls, but never really did anything horrible to deserve that level of karmic comeuppance. She was already punished with a new haircut after ignoring Nynaeve and Elayne's warnings about T'A'R. Being made damane for life was a fate RJ otherwise seemed to reserve for the most unlikeable female villains (Elaida, Moghedien, Liandrin).

Terez
04-26-2017, 06:33 PM
Ebony asked about Zemaille on Facebook, so here is a portion of her entry that's a bit more detailed than what you'll find in the companion, though most of this is under the Atha'an Miere entry.

Like the Carlinya entry, this is from the file entitled "Aes Sedai, Accepted, and Novices" in Box 57, Folder 1. (This has changed from the mid-processing box number, 54.)

Amassa, Zemaille: L[oyal]. Brown Ajah. A librarian in the White Tower.

[snip stuff found in the books]

Zemaille, Aiden, and Nyein share rooms in the upper levels of the library and spend most of their time either there or in the secret Thirteenth Depository, where they work.

Like all Sea Folk sisters, current and past, Zemaille deliberately simplified her name on going to the White Tower. She was Zemaille din Amassa — —, but dropped her salt name (IF SHE HAD ONE) and cut the rest to Zemaille Amassa. This was done to distance herself from the Sea Folk.

Like all Sea Folk sisters, current and past, Zemaille was older than her stated age on going to the White Tower. Zemaille claimed to be 18 years old when she went to the Tower, and a wilder, though hiding much of what she already knew of channeling. She was young enough not to have come very near her full strength yet, however.

The Atha'an Miere Windfinders believe that a younger woman might not be able to carry off the deceptions necessary, and so pick women who slowed at the earliest age they can find. They are always apprentices, though this fact is hidden from the Aes Sedai. In no way can they allow any connection to form for the Aes Sedai between Windfinders and the ability to channel. They go to the White Tower claiming to be 17 or 18, and despite the training they have received, they must pass themselves off as wilders and pretend to know much less than they do. Although any of them could breeze through the novice and Accepted training, they must pretend to learn channeling slowly and unspectacularly. So few have ever spent less than ten years as a novice and ten as Accepted. This "averageness" does not attract any notice since women of moderate strength are always chosen.

These women need to live a lie in spite of the Three Oaths. They must pretend to have no desire to return to the sea, and to be quiet and reclusive, attracting no notice, no matter what their real personalities.

Sea Folk Windfinders are aware, after centuries of sending young women to the White Tower, that these women die younger, on average, than do the Windfinders themselves, though life at sea is dangerous enough that they seldom live nearly as long as they might for a given strength, but they simply take this as another harshness in having to make the sacrifice of leaving the sea to become Aes Sedai.

All three of the current Atha'an Miere sisters are Brown Ajah. They are friends with one another, but have very if any other friends. They seldom leave the Tower, and almost never leave Tar Valon. This behavior is typical of Sea Folk sisters historically. With orders not to draw any attention to themselves, they remain close to the Tower, and never make any effort to contact or communicate with the Atha'an Miere, except to report that one of them has died. Even when a Sea Folk sister leaves Tar Valon, she never goes near the sea.

The Brown Ajah is the traditional Ajah for Sea Folk sisters. Initially this came about because the way they behave in training marks them as potential Browns, though now Sea Folk sisters within the Brown can make sure they are chosen for the Brown. As novices and Accepted they study hard, though if they xcel it always is in subjects other than channeling (which would draw attention), and they are bookish, spending much time in the library. They project an air of shyness and reclusiveness, making few if any friends.

There have never been more than three or four sisters from the Atha'an Miere at any one time. Sometimes a replacement is chosen when death causes the number to drop to 3, and other times when it drops to 2. The irregularity is to keep the Tower from detecting a pattern, and together with the small numbers is meant to keep the Tower believing that there are not many Sea Folk women who want to channel, that those who do will go to the Tower, and that the ability to channel runs weakly among the Atha'an Miere.

As can be seen, for women of the Sea Folk, going to the White Tower is a lifelong exile.

One of the three Sea Folk sisters, probably the youngest, may chose [sic] to remain as Aes Sedai.

X

For me, this part is disappointing:

...they remain close to the Tower, and never make any effort to contact or communicate with the Atha'an Miere, except to report that one of them has died.
I always figured that the Sea Folk sent their people to steal Aes Sedai secrets in the Thirteenth Depository.

Linda
04-26-2017, 06:46 PM
This is a paragraph from some very early notes on the Aes Sedai that I found today. It's verbatim and I've highlighted an interesting bit.

"A city, Tar Valon, has grown up close by Dragonmount, and is the sole remaining place where Aes Sedai are trained. Only female Aes Sedai are left, for the taint still remains in the male source of Power. Some men will take the risk for Power anyway, and others still are born with the deeply ingrained ability. As each of these men would become a great danger if left alone, groups of female Aes Sedai, large enough to overwhelm the Power-using ability of any single man, search them out, ‘gentling’ them. As this involves both gelding and a mental process that strips the man involved of volition for any major action, it is something no one seeks."

Obviously RJ changed his mind a little with this one. :)

Terez
04-26-2017, 06:49 PM
Zemaille's entry starts on Page 44.

Carlinya's entry starts on 454.

For Jen Halbman, here's the interesting non-Companion bits for Saerin, starting on page 59:

Asnobar, Saerin. L. Brown Ajah.

[stuff in books]

Warder: none at present. She has had several over her lifetime, and has had intimate relationships with some of them, but she feels that a Sitter having a Warder is not right, confining the man to the Tower and Tar Valon as it does; Warders are men who need to be on the move, as she sees it.

[...]

Saerin does not approve of the rebellion, far from it, but she has come to understand, she believes. And like many others, she would like to see such a serious rift healed through negotiation, if possible. She would not pass up a chance to bring Elaida down. If, of course, it could be done without harming the White Tower. As do many sisters, Saerin believes that a good deal can be borne, indeed must be borne if necessary, when the alternative is damage to the White Tower's power and prestige.

[...]

X
(emphases RJ's)

Terez
04-26-2017, 06:58 PM
This is a paragraph from some very early notes on the Aes Sedai that I found today. It's verbatim and I've highlighted an interesting bit.

"A city, Tar Valon, has grown up close by Dragonmount, and is the sole remaining place where Aes Sedai are trained. Only female Aes Sedai are left, for the taint still remains in the male source of Power. Some men will take the risk for Power anyway, and others still are born with the deeply ingrained ability. As each of these men would become a great danger if left alone, groups of female Aes Sedai, large enough to overwhelm the Power-using ability of any single man, search them out, ‘gentling’ them. As this involves both gelding and a mental process that strips the man involved of volition for any major action, it is something no one seeks."

Obviously RJ changed his mind a little with this one. :)
haha, yeah, the gelding bit was in another file (previously Box 28, Folder 1; probably Box 20, Folder 2 now); I think I might have mentioned it here before.

THE WHEEL OF TIME
OUTLINE/BOOK ONE

From that time forward every male who has attempted to weild [sic] the power has suffered the same fate. The only way to avoid this fate is to be gelded, and to accept a form of lobotomy performed with the power that makes the victim very passive, incapable of violence, and receptive to being commanded. Some men wish to follow the paths of knowledge and power, and so accept the price. Some men (and some women) have such an ingrained afinity [sic] for the powers that they would be weilders [sic] whether they trained or not. To find these males, so they will not become dangers to the land, there are testings at a certain age, and those found are taken into training. The males must, of course, be gelded and have the rest performed as well. (ANOTHER NAME MUST BE USED FOR THIS. THE VERY PRACTICE IS NOT WELL KNOWN. MOST PEOPLE THINK THE EFFECTS ON MEN OF USING POWER CAUSE THE SOFTENED FEATURES AND HIGH VOICES, ETC.) The girls are simply trained.

Terez
04-26-2017, 07:19 PM
A few for Chris Cottingham:

Page 52

Andomeran, Rianna: White Ajah (BA)

[stuff in books]

Sent off by Moghedien on another task. Merely listened, a touch of relief in her eyes, bowed in assent and left; F18. SHE COULD HAVE BEEN SENT TO CAIRHIEN. BUT WHY? AT THAT TIME MOGHEDIEN MIGHT WELL NOT HAVE KNOWN THAT RAND WAS MOVING INTO CAIRHIEN, OR EVEN THAT THE SHAIDO HAD.

Remember that these women all had dream ter'angreal, and maybe part of whatever others Moghedien had left to them.

Knows that Elayne, Nynaeve and Egwene pretended to be Aes Sedai in Tear, and that Elayne and Nynaeve pretended so again in Tanchico.

X

Page 76

Basaheen, Duhara: L. Red Ajah. (Black)

[stuff in books]

She's a gung-ho, go-get'um Red. She took part in the "male channeler pogrom," and though she was not in on taking any men who could channel, she did participate in the "executions" or arranged deaths of a number of men who were only suspected. This is to the good, from Elaida's pov.

Mention of men who can channel always "lights fires in her head," narrowing her eyes in anger.

Elaida thinks that Duhara is firmly in her pocket, but the fact is that Duhara harbors personal resentments and chafes at Elaida's control.

Duhara is Black Ajah.

She doesn't know that Alviarin is Black, much less that Alviarin is the head of the Black. She doesn't like Alviarin. And because she doesn't know that Alviarin, a Black sister, has Elaida firmly in hand for the moment, she may take actions because of her chafing that Alviarin will not like any more than Elaida.

It is possible that she may have been involved in the death of Sierin Vayu, another point in her favor in Elaida's eyes.

Her involvement in the pogrom was discovered, and like the others below the top rank, she was given a stiff if less hellacious penance for nebulous public reasons. This did not alter her belief that what they had done was right, though. She did not dislike men when she became Red, but she does now.

[stuff in books]

X

Page 110

Caide, Jeaine: Green Ajah (BA)

[stuff in books]

SENT OFF ON A TASK BY MOGHEDIEN. Showed horror at Moghedien's task, tried to cover herself (she was wearing a diaphanous Domani gown then). Thus, if the possibility above is so, her task involved exposing herself, maybe to threat/possibility of sex in some way, but maybe just as in being exposed to danger. To Taraboners, or Whitecloaks? MAY HAVE BEEN SENT TO FIND/SHADOW RAND. AT TIME HE WAS IN THE WASTE, WHICH FITS. WOULD CERTAINLY FOLLOW HIM. A LONG POSTING IN AMADOR MIGHT HAVE THE SAME EFFECT. BUT SHE HAS JUST PASSED THROUGH AMADICIA WITHOUT CRINGING.

It may be that rather than a horror of sex, she is simply a physical coward, or maybe she thought the mission put her in great danger. Which might imply a return to Tar Valon.

She may turn out to have been captured by the Seanchan.

[stuff in books]

X

Merilille's entry is on pages 130-132. This was the only interesting bit:

Rather than accept being sent to the Atha'an Miere ships for a year, Merilille fled the Royal Palace in Caemlyn with Talaan, the apprentice Windfinder, (?leaving a note that said that she was taking her to become a novice?).
Chris had some other requests that I will get to tomorrow.

If any of you here have requests, let me know.

Terez
04-26-2017, 07:48 PM
No one asked about Moiraine, but there's some interesting stuff in her entry that I actually typed out last time we visited (on that last day when we couldn't scan) and I kept secret all this time because I thought it might make it into the Companion. Her entry starts on p. 152.

Damodred, Moiraine: U. Blue Ajah EOW, DR3, S1, FProl. Lineage S17.

[stuff in books]

Pg 162

She knows that Lanfear survived passage through the doorframe ter'angreal with her; she saw Lanfear dragged off. She knows that a man she did not recognize (Moridin) came to see her in her captivity and said she was the wrong one, it must be the other. She suspects that Lanfear was freed.

[stuff in books]

When Mat and Thom find and rescue her, Moiraine is suspended in mid-air, naked except for the blue jewel on her forehead, her Great Serpent ring, and the "acrobat" bracelet angreal. She seems asleep or unconscious, slowly turning in the air, writhing slowly, murmuring. She appears to be in a haze, so they cannot really make her out at first. (I think actually

Pg 163

getting to her engenders feeling of being burned. It is Thom who actually does it, in the end.)

They have been rummaging through her experiences, making her relive them in the form of dreams that seem like real life, raping her mind in effect. They concentrated on things that engendered strong emotion, whether love or hate or fear of whatever, so long as it is strong. The point is to feed off the engendered emotion. When repetition dulls the emotion, they would alter the events to make the emotions strong again. They always made these changes in slow increments, just enough to strengthen the emotion again without wasting any. Example: Lan dumped in the pond, first just as it really happened, then he became rougher at it until [he] beat her first, and she was so shocked she could not channel; then he made love to her; then he raped her; then she killed him. Slow progressions through possibilities, however improbable they were in reality, just so long as they intensify the emotions. They could not introduce things outside of her memory -- for example, somebody she has never seen -- but anything in there already could be rearranged any way they wanted. Example: she could as a grown woman watch her mother (dead before she reached adulthood) plot and execute the murder of her father (who died in battle when she was a child) with a collection of people glimpsed during her travels.

There have also been periods where she was brought back to consciousness. Awareness of what is happening also increases the emotional aspects.

This is the same thing that was done to Lanfear, until she was "rescued" by Moridin/Ishamael.

Moiraine doesn't know what happened to Lanfear. When they passed through the doorframe ter'angreal, she only clung to consciousness long enough to know that they had both passed through, that the doorframe was burning. When she woke, she was floating in air, and they were explaining to her what was going to happen. To heighten her emotions. She believes that she had relived a number of incidents for them before that. While floating, she could not speak.

One set of memories never had to be heightened or changed. Memories of Thom always produced as strong an emotion every time, just as they were. She thinks they are what have kept her sane. She is surprised that years have not passed.

One consequence of what was done to her is the erosion of her ability to channel. With the bracelet angreal, she is stronger than she was before, as strong as Nynaeve, true "Forsaken class". Without it, she has so little ability left, that if she had come to the Tower that way, they would have taught her enough to be safe and hustled her out before her feet had more than touched down. Without it, it is an effort for her to light a candle; she can pick up a book with effort, but the blow she could deliver would be lighter than her arm could give.

She hopes that Lanfear is still somewhere there, undergoing the same fate, or at least that she underwent it long enough to suffer the consequences she herself has.

She will recall that once she was brought back to consciousness to find a man there (Ishamael, though she doesn't know it,

Pg 164

already as Moridin), apparently young, tall, muscular, beautifully handsome. She was not the woman he wanted. He wasn't interested in her at all, and he seemed irritated at having his time wasted, impatient. She was returned to the "sleep" in moments, but she recalls his appearance very clearly; he frightened her for some reason, and maybe because he was part of her memory, as was her fear of him, the snakes(?)/foxes(?) incorporated him into her dreams when they went to making things more complicated for her. The reinforcement, plus the things done in those particular dreams, have increased that fear to the point where she shivers thinking of him and her teeth might chatter if she saw him in the flesh.

[stuff in books]

She has fallen in love with Thom Merrilin, in part for what she claims is a foolish reason: He makes her laugh.

[stuff in books]

Pg 165

Moiraine got three answers inside the doorframe ter'angreal in the Stone of Tear. Her answers came before she went to the Waste and so could not in any way involved what her visions were in the testing ter'angreal in Rhuidean. I DO NOT THINK ANY OF HERS HAVE BEEN REVEALED. Where and when did she say that she knew the face of the man she would marry better than any of the others knew who they would?

X

I also forgot to add Chris's request for Myrelle, whose entry starts on Page 88:

Myrelle Berengari. R. Green Ajah.

[stuff in books]

Warders: [...]

Lan Mandragoran: His bond passed to her with Moiraine's disappearance/"death". This arrangement was made between Moiraine and Myrelle, in contravention of custom for the past 400 years, without Lan's prior knowledge. She had agreed to pass that bond on to Nynaeve "when Nynaeve achieved the shawl and was ready." She made a great effort to force Nynaeve to readiness when she felt the bond pass to her, and she objected to sending Lan on to Nynaeve because she didn't think Nynaeve was ready for any Warder, much less a man in Lan's fragile, volatile, and dangerous state.

[...]

Head the Green Ajah among the rebels. L40. This is largely because they recognize her organizational-managerial-command skills. Among Greens, these count in many ways as much as or more than strength or skill in the Power; at least to the extent that you can be not very strong at all, but if you have good leadership abilities, or good managerial or organizational skills, you will find yourself moving up the hierarchy in the Greens, and the Greens do have a very well defined hierarchy, organized much like military rank, though without titles. Every Green knows in her head the roughly pyramidal chart of who ranks where. You can be recommended for promotion up the chart, promoted or demoted, according to your performance as evaluated by those above you. You can be leaped over others already ahead of you, or dropped as far as the bottom tier from any height, though either is uncommon.

In truth, because of the scheme to control events being run by the Ajahs other than Red and Blue, Myrelle and the other sisters who accepted positions as "head" of their Ajah in exile are all in some trouble back in the Tower,

Pg 90

internal Ajah trouble that has nothing to do with the rebellion. The choices were made by the sisters as a whole, who did not know of the scheme by the upper ranks of the Ajahs.

[...]

Myrelle "knew" that Moiraine was dead as soon as she felt Lan's bond pass to her. If nothing else, this would be when she suddenly became "aware" of him.

She didn't know Lan's feelings for Nynaeve until they were revealed to her by Egwene, though she thought that explained a good deal. Both she and Nisao initially thought any such feelings must be on Nynaeve's part alone, that no one could captured [sic] Lan's heart because of his dedication to his one-man war.

She promised to pass his bond on to Nynaeve when N became Aes Sedai and was ready for a Warder. Nynaeve has been raised to Aes Sedai faster than any of them expected; now Nynaeve is not there, and in any case, Myrelle does not think Lan is any shape to be handed over to a young and inexperienced Aes Sedai who is not at all ready to handle something like him.

Myrelle took Lan to her bed; this was to last until she had begun making him think of life again, to however small a degree, it being her belief that fucking makes you center on life rather than death. She had to use the bond to compel him, sometimes, which she found both odd and somewhat insulting.

NOTE: Unlike the situation with Moiraine, where she and Myrelle prepared things so that the bond would pass at Moiraine's death, Myrelle and Nynaeve will have to be together for his bond to be passed between them. He does not have to be there, but I think Nynaeve insists on it, which Myrelle will approve of, though she will be the one who says he doesn't have to etc as a test.

The discovery by Egwene and Siuan of the situation with Lan led to Myrelle and Nisao being forced to swear fealty to Egwene personally.

[book quotes]

X

fionwe1987
04-26-2017, 08:02 PM
Thanks for all the tidbits Terez.

Thank god gelding became gentling.

The Sea Folk stuff is interesting. Was there anything on what made Moiraine suspicious of Windfinders? I always felt that name was bound to attract Aes Sedai attention, unlike Wise One, which sounded more like Wisdom, and less associated wiht the Power.

Also, anything in the notes on who actually betrayed Egwene? tGS implies it was Nicola, but how could Nicola know of the plan when even Kairen was not told, when she was alive and being trained?

Other things on which I'd like whatever info the notes have:

1) Who was the third Blue Sitter in the Tower before the schism?

2) Why did Aran'gar murder Anaiya, and then Kairen, at the time she did? Was Anaiya getting suspicious? Had she uncovered something?

3) Did RJ have any plans for how Siuan's lie about Logain and the Reds would be resolved? This was completely ignored, and I find it the weakest link in the Tower storyline.

4) Any unusual Aes Sedai abilities and Talents. Actually, this can be for any character.

fionwe1987
04-26-2017, 08:11 PM
No one asked about Moiraine, but there's some interesting stuff in her entry that I actually typed out last time we visited (on that last day when we couldn't scan) and I kept secret all this time because I thought it might make it into the Companion. Her entry starts on p. 152.



I also forgot to add Chris's request for Myrelle, whose entry starts on Page 88:

Wow. Why in the world wasn't any of this incorporated in the books? The whole Finn-memory thing in particular sounds creepy and awful. Wonder if this has anything to do with the Accepted test. Are those arches a gift from the Finns, and do Accepted end up providing sustenance to the Finn because of their strong emotions in these tests?

The Myrelle-Nynaeve bond passing also seems like it would have been a good moment. Sad to see it didn't make it to the books.

WinespringBrother
04-26-2017, 10:38 PM
The Myrelle-Nynaeve bond passing also seems like it would have been a good moment. Sad to see it didn't make it to the books.

It did:

Towers of Midnight CHAPTER: 20 - A Choice
Myrelle froze. Then she sighed and stepped back out of the tent. "So be it." She closed her eyes, weaving Spirit and sending the weaves into Nynaeve. It felt like an object being shoved physically into her mind. Nynaeve gasped, her surroundings spinning. Myrelle turned and slipped back into her tent. Nynaeve slid down until she was sitting on the ground. Something was blossoming inside her mind. An awareness. Beautiful, wonderful. It was him. And he was still alive. Blessed Light, she thought, eyes closed. Thank you.

fionwe1987
04-26-2017, 11:18 PM
It did:

No, I mean the part about Nynaeve insisting Lan be there and agree to the passing.

Terez
04-27-2017, 07:58 PM
Wow. Why in the world wasn't any of this incorporated in the books? The whole Finn-memory thing in particular sounds creepy and awful.
The most interesting bit to me is how she's going to be absolutely terrified of Rand if she ever sees him again.

She will recall that once she was brought back to consciousness to find a man there (Ishamael, though she doesn't know it, already as Moridin), apparently young, tall, muscular, beautifully handsome. She was not the woman he wanted. He wasn't interested in her at all, and he seemed irritated at having his time wasted, impatient. She was returned to the "sleep" in moments, but she recalls his appearance very clearly; he frightened her for some reason, and maybe because he was part of her memory, as was her fear of him, the snakes(?)/foxes(?) incorporated him into her dreams when they went to making things more complicated for her. The reinforcement, plus the things done in those particular dreams, have increased that fear to the point where she shivers thinking of him and her teeth might chatter if she saw him in the flesh.

sleepinghour
04-27-2017, 08:04 PM
No one asked about Moiraine, but there's some interesting stuff in her entry that I actually typed out last time we visited (on that last day when we couldn't scan) and I kept secret all this time because I thought it might make it into the Companion.

Interesting stuff indeed! Thank you for the tidbits. I wish some of that had been included in the Companion, or better yet in a Moiraine POV in ToM or AMoL. It would have showed the extent of her sacrifice and helped explain her feelings for Thom a bit more.

Is there anything about Siuan to suggest RJ might've planned to keep her alive past the Last Battle?

Myrelle took Lan to her bed; this was to last until she had begun making him think of life again, to however small a degree, it being her belief that fucking makes you center on life rather than death. She had to use the bond to compel him, sometimes, which she found both odd and somewhat insulting.

That settles another question: did Myrelle use the bond to force Lan to sleep with her? I always thought there had to have been some compulsion involved since Lan "flinched slightly, like a nervous horse" when Myrelle touched his arm in ACoS. For Lan of all people to react like that... It's practically a running joke in the series how Lan barely twitching an eyelash is the equivalent of another man having a nervous breakdown, so flinching at Myrelle's touch seemed like a glaring sign that something was amiss there.

I'm guessing that for Lan, the issue was less that he had to sleep with Myrelle and more the loss of control over his own mind and will. I suspect Lan was otherwise largely beyond caring what happened to him while he was waiting for a chance to die. New Spring showed he was not unused to being forced into bed via Malkieri customs, and he thought Nynaeve was lost to him at that point. The Companion claims that "Nynaeve knew that Lan had made love with Myrelle, which he did in an attempt to break himself from Nynaeve." So, apparently sometimes he went along with it; at other times he was unwilling to the point that Myrelle had to use the bond to compel him.

Additionally, rape was a recurring theme in ACoS: Morgase by Valda, Moghedien by Shaidar Haran, Mat by Tylin, and Lan by Myrelle. Two women, two men. It took me a few rereads to notice the parallels between the storylines—Moghedien's rape wasn't even made clear until RJ answered a reader question about what Shaidar Haran did to her—but I suspect RJ set out to include different forms of rape in the book. Morgase was tortured into Valda's bed; in Moghedien's case the rape was part of her torture. Tylin and Myrelle were both Ebou Dari and didn't view what they were doing as wrong; Myrelle thought she was helping Lan. That Myrelle was later forced to bond and sleep with Kairen's former Warder (Llyw, who was said to resemble an Ogier) seemed like RJ's usual type of karmic comeuppance.

Wow. Why in the world wasn't any of this incorporated in the books? The whole Finn-memory thing in particular sounds creepy and awful.

I wonder if Brandon had that in mind when he wrote the Moiraine/Lan scene in AMoL, where Rand described them as acting distant ("They were civil, but there was a distance between them that [Rand] had not expected"). I wish we'd gotten to see their reunion to explain that. It kind of felt like a sad ending to their twenty-year-old friendship. I would have expected Lan to initially be angry, but come to terms with it and repeat what he told her in TGH: “Honor to serve, Moiraine Aes Sedai. It has been and will be so, always.” It would have been nice with some closure.

To fill in the blanks, I'm guessing Moiraine probably spared Lan from knowing everything that happened to her. On Moiraine's part, her memories of Lan and everybody save Thom have been distorted and used to torture her. Will she ever be able to remember the pond incident again without also remembering how the Finns distorted that memory? Similarly, Rand now exists inside the body of someone she strongly associates with that experience ("The reinforcement, plus the things done in those particular dreams, have increased that fear to the point where she shivers thinking of him and her teeth might chatter if she saw him in the flesh.") To me, that sounds like the worst part of everything she went through: the Finns desecrating almost every memory and relationship she held dear.

The Myrelle-Nynaeve bond passing also seems like it would have been a good moment. Sad to see it didn't make it to the books.

I'm guessing that RJ intended for the passing of the bond to mirror the Malkieri custom of the man's carneira handing over the daori to the new wife on their wedding day. But I think I actually prefer the way it happened in the books. That Lan wasn't around for the bond transfer made it seem more meaningful when the bond was the only way for them to communicate and know the other was alive.

fionwe1987
04-27-2017, 08:25 PM
The most interesting bit to me is how she's going to be absolutely terrified of Rand if she ever sees him again.

And how she played it masterfully cool when she did see Moridin at the Pit of Doom. All those moments would have had more meaning if we knew what she went through. What an utterly stupid decision to leave it out.


I wonder if Brandon had that in mind when he wrote the Moiraine/Lan scene in AMoL, where Rand described them as acting distant ("They were civil, but there was a distance between them that [Rand] had not expected"). I wish we'd gotten to see their reunion to explain that. It kind of felt like a sad ending to their twenty-year-old friendship. I would have expected Lan to initially be angry, but come to terms with it and repeat what he told her in TGH: “Honor to serve, Moiraine Aes Sedai. It has been and will be so, always.” It would have been nice with some closure.


I was always a little confused by the distance thing. I mean, I can now explain why Moiraine was distant, but I cannot imagine Lan learning that Moiraine put both their lives in danger for the Dragon Reborn and thinking anything but that she did exactly what duty demanded of her, and being proud of her for it.

Frankly, I think not seeing the Moiraine-Lan and Moiraine-Siuan reunion was one of the biggest misses in the last book. These three started this whole set of events, and lost so much to get the world ready for the Last Battle. It was not a small, meaningless moment that we missed, and all for yet more pages of meaningly Trolloc horde attacking meaningless random group of men.

Terez
04-27-2017, 08:58 PM
A few more requests from Facebook:

1. Silviana - this was the only interesting bit in her entry that wasn't in the Companion:

Silviana was particularly strict with Shemerin after Shemerin was reduced to Accepted. In Silviana's view, the reduction was nonsense -- an Aes Sedai was an Aes Sedai forever unless stilled -- and she saw it more as Shemerin suffering through a particularly odd penance that required her to abide by the rules set for Accepted. But Shemerin's reaction to it, and her behavior, especially the way she allowed Accepted, and occasionally even novices toward the end, to get the better of her, displeased Silviana no end. Besides which, Shemerin had a difficult time following the rules. Shemerin did not, in Silviana's eyes, behave as an Aes Sedai should in these circumstances -- far, far from it; any penance should be borne with a much dignity as possible, not with moaning and hand wringing and whining -- and so Shemerin bore down on her. It was her hopes, much as with the girls, that strict punishments would make Shemerin straighten up and behave properly, force her to serve out her "penance" in a manner suitable for an Aes Sedai. She is infuriated the Shemerin ran away.

2. Adeleas and Vandene - the only really unique bit in their entries (mostly copied) was a chronology bit:

Pg 357

Namelle, Adeleas: R. Brown Ajah.

[skip]

Pg 358

[skip]

Travel time for Adeleas and Vandene from the Borderlands to Salidar: Roughly 2500 miles or more. Over that distance, they couldn't average more that 20-205 miles per days max. [sic] 100-125 days minimum. Siuan was stilled sometimes in May or June, say. Say June-July for word to reach them, as well as for them to learn "Sallie Daera" message. Arrival: September earliest - November.

Pg 359

They may have been on the way to Tar Valon at time they heard.

[skip]

X

[Vandene: 360-362; basically repeat of Adeleas]

3. Aisling Noon

Pg 378

Noon, Aisling: Green Ajah. L

[skip]

Aisling was born with the spark. Per Tua'athan custom, as soon as this was discovered, the caravan headed to Tar Valon where she was handed over to the White Tower. This is the only way that Teethe [sic] women enter the Tower. Per Verin (reported in NS:tN), they do not wish to become Aes Sedai nor have anything to do with the Power.

X

4. Laras - her entry was boring, but I found this in Elaida's entry:

[skip to p.20]

People Elaida has met of has knowledge of:

[skip]

Laras: Mistress of the Kitchens (given title by Siuan Sanche; formerly merely the chief cook). Elaida is not really aware she exists.
Elaida does not know that Laras was involved in Siuan's escape. This woman may yet become a spy/mole inside Tar Valon.

5. Annoura - another chronology tidbit, and a few other things:

Larisen, Annoura: U. Gray Ajah.

[stuff in books]

Pg 282

A VERIN-TYPE in many ways, though she is Gray.

[skip]

She heard rumors that Moiraine had been killed. AT the time she decided to set out from Mayene, had no knowledge of any other Aes Sedai near Rand except for reports of a Green sister she doesn't know (Egwene: name known?), who according to Berelain's last report, was spending all of her time with the Wise Ones. She didn't know of the kidnaping until she arrived in Cairhien.
TIME INVOLVED: 150 miles across the bay to Goaban (1 days sail), then roughly 300 miles (10-15 days) to Haddon Mirk (rough travel, and slower), then approx 750 miles to Cairhien (25-38 days, plus time getting a new ship at least at Tear}, and possibly as much as 26-30 days. Therefore ship travel is more likely despite necessity of passing through Tear, where at least AS are not under ban.
Thus, to arrive between the time the pursuit left chasing Rand and the time he returned, she would have to have departed Mayene maybe the day Egwene was summoned to Salidar and certainly before Perrin arrived in Caemlyn. Possibly earlier than either event.

Basically, the Wise Ones look on Annoura no differently that they have begun looking on all of the sisters, despite her connection to Berelain, who some of them at least (Sorilea, a key; Amys; Bair; maybe some others) look upon with a degree of affection and/or liking. At best, there is a sort of toleration for Berelain's sake. She does not like and does not understand the Wise Ones view of Aes Sedai.

X

6. Bera Harkin - nothing not in the books
7. Sashalle Anderly - nothing not in the books
8. Lemai Ambani - nothing

9. Nesune

Bihara, Nesune. L. Brown Ajah.

[stuff in books]

Egwene attended several of her classes as a novice. As a teacher of novices, could tell when someone's attention drifted even with her back turned. {CHECK! EARLIER NOTES GAVE HER NAME AS CHALEDI.}

[stuff in books]

X

10. Brendas

Brendas: R. White Ajah.

[stuff in books]

Query: Was she one of the White sisters who accompanied Siuan to Fal Dara?

She and Temaile had the duty of attending Tamra and Gitara just before Moiraine and Siuan on the night before Gitara's Foretelling regarding the Dragon Reborn.

X

11. Kiruna

Pg 352

Nachiman, Kiruna: R. Green, F26. Oathsworn to the Dragon Reborn. In Cairhien.

Nationality: Arafellin. Sister to the King of Arafel (younger than he by two years).

Description: Elegant...

[skip]

Strength Level: 14 (2). Almost the 700 year age level.
Note: Kiruna and Bera are approximately equal in strength; clearly stronger than Alanna, Verin or any of the rebel embassy under Merana. Before the advent of Egwene, Elayne, and Nynaeve, she was of the second rank behind only Siuan, Moiraine and Elayne (since Romanda had retired, and Cadsuane was believed dead).

[skip]

Born: 939 NE. Came to the White Tower in 953 NE (age 14); was four years a novice (953-957 NE); four years Accepted (957-961 NE). Raised Aes Sedai at age 22. Slowed at age 25. She and Bera Harkin were pillow friends; although both went on to men exclusively later, they have remained the closest of friends.

Warders: Four, disparate men. No further description as of CoT.

Horse:

Check, but In think the horse which now belongs to Min was bought by forced purchase by Rand from Kiruna. Or was it his own Aesdaishar? [it was, and it was a gelding when Kiruna had it, but it became a stallion when Rand had it]

[skip]

Pg 353

[skip]

Rode a dark gelding to Dumai's Wells.

[skip]

Kiruna, who was the most obviously prideful and most obviously scornful of her "so-called" place as apprentice, has been forced into the most menial chores, plus having her bottom spanked, strapped and/or switched by Sorilea (mostly, but by others as well) at regular intervals for the most trivial fault since arriving in Cairhien; Sorilea

Pg 354

intends to teach her the difference between pride and arrogance. "She must learn that she owns her pride, it does not own her." She may not have taught Kiruna that yet, but Sorilea has certainly taught her that she had damned well better behave as if she really is an apprentice no matter what she believes.

When Rand went to the Sea Folk ship anchored off Cairhien, Kiruna was in a "consultation" with Sorilea "on a matter of protocol," which Bera seemed eager to ger [sic] her out of; in fact, she was receiving a lesson in what happens to apprentice Wise Ones who think they can't [sic] come over arrogant with Wise Ones.

X

12. Romanda - nothing

13. Beonin: (296-298) RJ: "What did Beonin say about Elaida & the situation int he Tower in Salidar? About the deposing of Siuan?" [Maria gives the quote]

14. Eldrith: "Amadician (relatively few Aes Sedai come from there, almost all highly motivated and even driven)."

15. Felaana: "Strength Level: <17 (5)." (It was given as straight up 17(5) in the Companion.)

16. Bernaile

Gelbarn, Bernaile: R. White Ajah. She was the second, after Zerah, to be taken by Seaine and Pevara.

Nationality: Taraboner.

[skip]

Like all of the sisters chosen for the Fifth column, Bernaile was out of the Tower when Siuan was deposed and the Tower broke, so there was no flight to arouse any suspicions toward her. Apparently, she simply returned in answer to Elaida's summons.

What if anything does Bernaile know about the "male channeler pogrom?"

X

17. Sarene - nothing
18. Careane - nothing

19. Ispan

Pg 437

Shefar, Ispan: Blue Ajah (BA)

[skip]

Sent off by Moghedien on another task. Kissed Moghedien's hem at learning her task; F18. Because she was sent after the

Pg 438

cache, because of the trust it implies to her. Given instruction separately from the others so none would know more than one was going to the same place. She was told she would meet someone with whom she was to cooperate at a certain place, and she did not know that person was Falion Bhoda until they met. [...] Even they did not know until later, when they reached a place where ach was supposed to meet a "companion," and found the other.

[skip]

20. Marillin - nothing
21. Moria - nothing
22. Sedore

Dajenna, Sedore: L. Yellow Ajah. (Black)

[stuff in books]

Pg 150

MAYBE; MAYBE NOT: Sedore knows that Alviarin is BA; she herself also sits on the Supreme Council, and Alviarin is one of the 3 names she knows, though not part of her own trio.

Sedore does not know that Velina is on the Council or even Black.

X
23. Temaile - nothing
24. Sharina

Melloy, Sharina: GH 23, P30, WH10. Later, a novice. R.

Nationality: Murandian; born and lived not far from the border with Andor.

Description: She plainly is not young (about sixty). (P30) Egwene's POV: [quotes] With slowing, she will appear somewhat younger, perhaps a youthful 50s, or even into apparent 40s. She has a powerful, handsome face, too strong to be pretty, though some might call her beautiful. Not everyone would, though. Striking is the more usual term, along with strong-faced. Tall and straight-backed, with an almost over-powering presence and a strong tendency to dominate everyone around her.

Strength: (p) 2(+11) {A step higher than Nynaeve.} Almost the 800-year age level. And because of her age, she will rise in strength at a steep angle.

[skip]

X
25. Rina Hafden - nothing

26. Siuan

Pg 407

Sanche, Siuan: R. Blue Ajah

[skip]

Description: [...] (After Being Stilled): {Renee' Zellweger}. Fair skinned, blue-eyed, more than handsome, less than beautiful. Eyes still sharp. [...]

[skip]

Pg 40

Siuan was novice and Accepted with Moiraine. The pair were very close friends. The two most common pairings of extremely close friends among novices and Accepted are between women who are from very much the same sort of background and between women who are from what seems opposite backgrounds. She and Moiraine began as friends who cried on one another's shoulder about the hardships of being a novice or after a switching from the Mistress of NOvices, and this eventually grew into a sexual relationship ("pillow friends"). Neither woman is gay; they were just young women with normal libidos in a cloistered society, cut off from men. This relationship continued after they became Accepted, and even for a time after they were raised Aes Sedai, though never again with the intensity that it did when they were younger.

As novice and Accepted both, it was Siuan who always took the lead between her and Moiraine. This startled Moiraine at first, until she decided that it seemed natural, that Siuan had been born to lead.

[skip]

Pg 412

[skip]

Gareth Bryne: Siuan is flabbergasted to realize that she has fallen in love with him, and indeed tries to deny it or shake it out of herself. One, she has never had time for of thing; two, she certainly has no time for it now, and three, if she did have time, he is the last man she would chose. [sic] She tries to blame it on the "apparent" youth that came from being stilled. She is almost as horrified to learn that he is in love with her, though he says nothing right out.

She may think that viewing no longer applies. Maybe the irritation he presented would have been part of helping keep her alive had she not been Healed, but now she is, so it isn't needed.

[skip]

Pg 415

KNOWLEDGE: Moghedien led Elayne and Nynaeve down a blind alley about cross-gender detection of channeling. This would be reinforced by Moiraine's belief.

Moiraine apparently believes that the Forsaken can detect the channeling of either male or female at five miles, if paying attention, and at ten or more under certain circumstances. {DR} THIS IS PART OF HER LACK OF KNOWLEDGE, LACK GENERAL AMONG AES SEDAI TODAY.

[skip]

By CHAOS Prol, in Salidar, she knows that one of the other two [Rand loves] is Elayne; expects that Min and Elayne may be at one another's throats. She doesn't intend to allow that because of how it might complicate relations with Rand.

SHE HAS PROBABLY DECIDED THAT ELAYNE, AS DAUGHTER-HEIR AND QUEEN PRESUMPTIVE OF ANDOR, CANNOT BE ALLOWED TO BE INVOLVED EMOTIONALLY WITH RAND. THUS, ELAYNE IS TO BE PUSHED AWAY FROM HIM WHILE MIN IS THROWN AT HIM WITH THE INTENTION THAT SHE WILL BE A REIN ON HIM IN AES SEDAI HANDS.

[skip]

Pg 417

[skip]

MIN'S VIEWING: That Siuan must stay close to Gareth Bryne or she will die. Siuan doesn't like it and, as usual with her and the viewings, thinks there is some way around it.

CHECK EXACT FORM OF VIEWING.

Min did not predict that siuan would be able to channel again, and Siuan may claim this proof of viewings not being infallible.

[skip]

ONE POWER, THE: [...] CHECK FOR STATEMENTS INDICATING WHERE SHE RANKS, BUT I THINK SHE AND LEANE ARE NOW MID-RANK OR LOWER.

One of Siuan's Talents was the ability to 'see' ta'veren; a minor Talent. GH 5, mmp 68. WAS THIS RESTORED WHEN SHE WAS HEALED?

[skip]

Pg 418

Cadsuane Melaidhrin:

Siuan Sanche and Moiraine Damodred had reason to research Cadsuane after their encounter with her shortly after reaching the shawl, as recounted in NEW SPRING. Those "Cadsuane stories" they were able to trace down all turned out to be true, and in some cases, the truth was more than the story. They were not able to follow or confirm all of the stories, of course. Siuan is still uncertain whether Cadsuane is Black Ajah or not. (In the novella version of NEW SPRING, Siuan neither encountered nor spoke to CAdsuane, at least on-page.)

[end @ 423]

X

27. Javindhra

Pg 181

Doraille, Javindhra: L. Red Ajah. FProl. Loyalist Hall of the Tower.

Nationality:

Description: Angular face... [skip]

She has been, if not exactly broken, then reined in heavily by Elaida. Which she resents heartily, not only because she is Red, like Elaida, but because of her early support. Very aware of what happened to Teslyn, so she doesn't show resentment. She drags her feet in the Hall sometimes to show her independence of Elaida, but only where/when Elaida can see, however, she in effect comes running when Elaida crooks a finger. A matter of strong talk in private and yes-ma'am-right-away-ma'am in public. She would deny it vehemently (because she really doesn't believe it), but she's Elaida's puppy, now, and she hunts when Elaida says hunt and sits when Elaida says sit. Except that, given a chance to balk Elaida, she will snap at it.

[stuff from books]

X
I am too tired to proofread this.

Linda
04-27-2017, 09:04 PM
Hi Theorylanders

Today in RJ's notes I found some information on what Perrin saw in the Portal Stone worlds on the way to Falme. It's more specific than was in the books.

Perrin "has stayed with Rand because of the lives he saw himself live. Sometimes he died young, sometimes he died old, sometimes in battle, sometimes in bed, but always he was linked to Rand in some way, and linked to the battle against the Shadow. Sometimes he tried to flee it, but it always caught up with him. Worse was the fact that sometimes he was overwhelmed by his contact with the wolves and went mad from it. All in all, he sees himself as very likely doomed, but fated to follow Rand. He is somewhat resigned to it, but some resent remains, some wishing that he could go home. Or at least find a peaceful village and live his life as a blacksmith and metal worker."

As for Mat:

"The other lives he “saw” himself live? In some of these, at least, he betrayed Rand in one way or another; anyway, he sees what happened that way. He doesn’t like that. He really is a prankster. He enjoys practical jokes, making jokes, even making fun of people, but he is not mean, and despite his fears about Rand and what he has become, he is loyal to his friends, even when it is reluctantly."

Linda
04-27-2017, 09:38 PM
I found this information on Lanfear in some notes for TDR.

"Selene: [Lanfear]

She may use other names, other appearances. She can, within very broad limits, change both her apparent age and her physical appearance. Not her general size, though. She is always the same height, etc.] No matter what Ba’alzamon wants, she has her own plans. She wants power for herself, for one thing, and none of that sitting at the feet of Ba’alzamon and ruling all below. Power in her own right, with none above her. Beside that, she wants Rand al’Thor. More specifically, she wants Lews Therin Telamon reborn. When he last lived, she lost him to another; this time she means him to be hers. She is a Power Wielder at least the equal of Ishamael, the Betrayer of Hope, who was accounted the most powerful of the Forsaken, but she never liked flaunting her ability, preferring to let others think she was less powerful than she actually was. This made them careless, and gave her advantages. She may well have been close to Lews Therin himself in strength."

This limits illusion a little differently than in the books. The suggestion that Lanfear disguised her ability is not new but the relative strength of Ishamael and LTT is implied to be wider than in the books. Her motivations are unwavering however.

Terez
04-27-2017, 10:47 PM
The Verin entry is the only one I copied in full, just to give a sense of how these bios are typically organized, and what sort of material I skipped in the other bios.

Pg 299

Mathwin, Verin: R. (BA). Brown Ajah. GH4, DR 10, Bro SR1, SR31, F14, L10.

Nationality: born in Far Madding, which is as close to an out-and-out matriarchy as exists in this world. Same city where Cadsuane was born.
Description: Short [About 5'0"] and plump/stout, placid-looking, square-faced, touch of gray in her hair. Despite ageless face, looks like somebody's mother or aunt, or the cook at an inn. Often has a dreamy look -- until she gives you a particularly penetrating stare. Some think of her stare as bird-like; a bird studying a worm. {A young Margaret Rutherford} Her fingers often are ink-stained. She habitually rubs her nose, especially in thought, frequently smudging ink there. Verin has a scar on her arm that she got, so she implies, in Tel'aran'rhiod (DR21), since she isn't a dreamwalker, she used a dream ter'angreal. She also says, with regard to this scar, that "Anaiya's Healing did not work as well as it should have."
Strength Level: 17 (5). The 650-700 year age level. ??? Alanna, Verin, Merana and Seonid are approximately equal in strength; weaker than Rafela or Faeldrin, Kiruna or Bera ???
SPECIAL SKILLS, ABILITIES AND TALENTS:
1) See notes below on her form of Compulsion.
2) A form of eavesdropping.
3) While her Talent for Healing in general is not very strong -- fairly weak actually; at least, she did not feel competent to Heal Perrin's wound from a Trolloc arrow – despite that, in one particular part of Healing, Delving to find out what is wrong with someone, she has no superior. A number of equals, but no superior.
4) She knows how to "mask" her bond with a Warder so he cannot feel her at all; this is useful for privacy, when a sister wants it. Even most celibate sisters and those without Warders know how, just as they know how to make the bond, but some who have not had a Warder bonded for a time, and those who never have, may find it difficult. Red sisters do not learn this, just as they do not learn the bonding weave.
5) She has a fairly good ability at manipulating weather. On Toman Head she did not try to lessen the storm because (1) she could only lessen so large a storm somewhat by herself, and (2) using so much of the Power would have attracted the wrong attention.
Note: Earth is "of some difficulty" for her.
Note: Verin has an angreal in the form of a small brooch carved from "some translucent stone, in the shape of a lily with too many petals." She acquired this (no source for it given as of PoD Prol) about 951 NE or so. "Almost fifty years" ago. She never wears it, but it hasn't been out of her reach since she obtained it. No one knows that she possesses this.

Pg 300

Born: 849 NE. Went to the White tower in 864 NE (age 15). Was 5 years a novice (864-869 NE); six years Accepted (869-875 NE). Raised Aes Sedai at age 26. Entered the Black Ajah in 929 NE (age 80), under duress, after she was caught while studying rumors/tales and got very close.
Parenia Demalle was Amyrlin and Sereille Bagand the Mistress of Novices when she came to the Tower (864 NE). Sereille was raised Amyrlin in 866.
Of the Kin, Asra Zigane (929 NE; 4 months), Derys Nirmala (926-936 NE), Garenia Rosoinde (923-928 NE), and Sarainya Vostovan (940-950 NE) were all there after she became Aes Sedai, and some were present about the time she was forced into the Black Ajah (929 NE).
Warder: Tomas—: gray-haired, dark-eyed, medium height (about 5'9"-5'10") but stocky. GH8, S30 (first description, mmp 493); L10.
Balinor; long dead now. It took Verin ten years to get over his death and bond Tomas.
Horse:
Clothing & Possessions:
(G6) Brown-fringed shawl; writing case hung at belt, and inkbottle in scabbard at belt .
(G14) Cloak behind saddle [joins Ingtar's/Perrin's party on road, searching for Fain and Horn].
(G32) BROWN-fringed shawl, embroidered in grape vines [going to Lord Barthanes' party, in Cairhien, with Rand's group].
(G37) Cloak with hood [chasing Fain, Portal Stone in Stedding Tsofu and at Toman Head].
(D10) In all shades of brown; hooded cloak [with Mat, Egwene, etc., on way to Tar Valon].
(S31) Plain brown dress, inkstained at cuffs [when Perrin returns to Two Rivers and is taken to cottage in woods].
(S32) Rode a nondescript browng elding, with a deep chest and a strong rump. Plain garb; pouch; a little leather case at the belt [leaving the old cottage in the woods with Alanna, Perrin, etc., on way to Whitecloak camp at Watch Hill].
(S33) Slippered feet [continuing on to Watch Hill].
(S56) Brown clad [last Trolloc attack in Two Rivers].
(L10 & L43) Rumpled pale brown dress [with Two Rivers girls in Caemlyn, meeting Rand; and in Caemlyn with Merana's Salidar embassy].
(WH13) Belt; belt pouch; simple bronze-colored dress with flowered brooch attached [with Sorilea, meeting Cadsuane in Sun Palace].
(WH24) Cloak [visiting Cadsuane in her quarters, Far Madding].

Pg 301

(WH32) Dark wool cloak; shoes and stockings [meeting Rand on streets of Far Madding in rain, when Rand asked if Cadsuane would talk with him].
[I]Personal:
She went to the Tower instead of marrying a boy named Eadwin, who had a mischievous smile that she remembers fondly. She was driven by one thing, mainly: the desire to know; becoming Aes Sedai, becoming Brown Ajah, was the best way to do that, and that is what she wanted to try. She was surprised, pleased, frightened, all together, when she passed the tests and learned she could indeed become Aes Sedai. It was not until her visit home after about a year as a novice, though, that she realized that she really had left all of her former life behind. She has never regretted her choice; well, not really regretted. She attended the wedding of one of Eadwin's great-grandsons, and the young man had Eadwin's smile. "Luckily," no one there recognized her.

Verin's handwriting is "thin and spidery."

Her notebooks were described (by Aeron, an Aiel Wise One) as containing "some pretty drawing sand a great deal about plants and flower."
RECEIVED SOME OF HER TRAINING FROM:
DID SOME OF THE TRAINING OF: Anaiya Carel, Moiraine Damodred, Siuan Sanche, Beldeine Nyram (as a novice), Elaida do Avriny a'Roihan, .
TRAINED AS A NOVICE AND/OR ACCEPTED WITH:
Verin lived in the upper levels of the Tower Library, with their odd corridors. A number of Browns keep rooms there in addition to their rooms inside the Tower, but few actually live in the Library.
(D21) Verin's quarters above library: Accessed by narrow set of stairs that curl through library walls. Corridors little used, with dusty air in halls that take odd turns and twists, sometimes dipping or rising unexpectedly. Only a few tapestries, colors dulled from lack of cleaning. Many unlit lamps in halls, and bare black and white tiles on floor. Verin's room at top of a rise, next to tapestry of mounted king receiving surrender of another king. Dark paneled door. Shelves line walls of antechamber, except for where maps hung, some in layers, and charts of the night sky. Door to inner rooms. Books, papers and scrolls everywhere, interspersed with strange shapes of metal or glass, bones and skulls, and even a live owl. Candlesticks throughout. Cluttered table.

Verin knew about Sniffers: "Did you think you could keep something like that secret?" Very likely other sisters do, too.

Verin keeps many notes, some in the clear and some in a cipher which exists only in her head. She thinks she will have to write the cipher out, one day, but not yet. She has "a lifetime worth of notebooks" stored in her quarters above the White Tower library.

Pg 302

Verin was one of two Brown sisters who accompanied Siuan on her visit to Fal Dara; the other was Serafelle.

When Egwene asked in Medo: Moiraine had left 2 days ago, then Liandrin after her, and finally Verin; all went without a word to anyone, including Siuan.

Mat's Healing was done by a circle of ten Aes Sedai, led by Siuan Sanche. Others mentioned as being present: Sheriam, Serafelle, Alanna, Anaiya, Verin, Leane, and Brendas.

Verin "checked" & again Healed Mat, to no effect, in Cairhien.

She knows a good deal about Rand, Mat (Horn and link, but not luck), and Perrin (not wolves), and has deduced more. She asked him about whether he had chosen "the axe or the hammer." In some ways, about some things, she knows more than the Amyrlin Seat or Moiraine.

Rand told her about his and Hurin's journey to other world.

Verin knew the name Portal Stone: not a widely known artifact. She knows the locations of three Portal Stones, she says.

Verin had visited one Portal Stone personally before she brought Rand to use the one near Stedding Tsofu. That was on Toman Head, and she knew it was indicated by 2 parallel wavy lines crossed by an odd squiggle. She had some knowledge of things represented by other symbols, but it was, for the most part, largely general and speculative.

Verin believes -- or says she does, anyway -- that she would be destroyed short of enough Power to work a Portal Stone.

Verin Healed Rand & Hurin in Cairhien, after the fire at the inn.

Verin Healed or Delved Mat several times, in Cairhien after the fire, and later on the journey to Toman Head, but not to no visible effect.

Verin did a form of Healing for everybody on the Toman Head trip except Rand, who refused.

Thus, because of using Healing on them, Verin has a certain awareness of Rand, Mat, Perrin, Hurin, all of the men who accompanied her on the journey to Toman Head and Falme, and also each of the Aes Sedai taken prisoner at Dumai's Wells, with the exception of Katerine Alruddin, who escaped. She may also have that awareness of Egwene, Nynaeve, and Elayne, from using Healing on them in some way during the period between their rescue at Falme and reaching Tar Valon again.

Verin's father: "It's time to roll the dice."

Verin did something long ago in Far Madding so that arrest warrants were signed, and she suspects they might still be in force, so she doesn't use her own name there.

Verin and Alanna Mosvani were in the Two Rivers during Perrin's heroics there. Verin kept Alanna from bonding Perrin. The pair of them recruited a fairly large number of Two Rivers girls; by the time they had the girls to Caemlyn, they had learned of the Tower breaking.

Pg 303

Verin and Alanna had contact with the rebel embassy to Rand in Caemlyn, and were taken into the group entirely with the arrival of Bera Harkin and Kiruna Nachiman.

Alanna and Verin wanted to be Rand's advisers/guides, especially after learning that Moiraine is "dead."

Verin was not upset over Alanna bonding Rand against his will as she made out. She wants a string to Rand; Alanna, emotionally vulnerable because of her Warder's death, can be manipulated into being that string; and using Alanna provides a little distance for Verin, and maybe a little safety.

Faeldrin Harella, Kiruna Nachiman, Bera Harkin, Rafela Cindal, Masuri Sokawa (with Perrin, not Cadsuane), Seonid Traighan (with Perrin, not Cadsuane), Verin Mathwin, Alanna Mosvani, and Merana Ambrey followed after Rand when he fled them in Caemlyn. All were forced to swear fealty to him after Dumai's Wells. These sisters are now treated like apprentices by the Wise Ones, and considered apprentices, especially Kiruna, who Sorilea made a project of hers. They have also been co-opted by Cadsuane, especially Alanna, who is useful for keeping track of Rand. All intend to keep their oaths of fealty to the best of their ability, however reluctantly, but none of them can stand up to Cadsuane, at least not openly.

Once declared da'tsang, the sisters captured at Dumai's Wells were kept apart, not allowed to speak to one another, and rarely to see one another even a distance. Most are not aware that the other captives are being treated exactly the same as they. Until informed by Verin, none had any real idea of why they were being treated so; the general belief was that it was some method of trying to break them. Most were not even sure that the others remained alive.

Until being taken to Verin, Beldeine hadn't seen another captive since reaching the tents.

In addition to Beldeine, Verin definitely questioned Irgain Fatamed, a Green who had been stilled by Rand, and also Turanna Norill, a White.

In response to Sorilea's question about what shamed wetlanders, Verin prepared a list which she passed on without the other sisters knowing (she hopes) and which details a number of things she believes will work on the captive sisters as Sorilea wishes.

Verin learned that Katerine Alruddin had escaped and was angry over it. Aeron told her not to tell Rand since he did not need to be worried over petty concerns.

Verin first thought of Rand in the way Siuan and Leane still do -- as stubborn and stronger-willed than expected, but still malleable with a little work -- yet with longer exposure she has changed that opinion. She now thinks that whatever the surface of him might be, his core may be about as malleable as granite.

She spent some time in the company of Mat and Perrin during THE GREAT HUNT, and think she has a line on what makes each of them tick.

Page 304

Re Verin not handing over Corianin Nedeal's papers to Egwene; aside from the fact that Corianin noted that she herself did best in ignorance, and made more and greater mistakes the more she thought she knew what was going on -- even after realizing that fact -- there might be some evidence and/or info about the Black Ajah in the papers which Verin must, by her new Oaths, hide. This last must be looked at in light of the fact that she "considered" giving her the papers but decided not to. Remember that Corianin was a dreamer; she may have noted down some interpretation of a dream or dreams, possibly just before her death, that has pertinence today and is dangerous from Verin's pov. It could have been earlier, especially if Corianin interpreted something that she obviously saw had no pertinence to her own time/world. Or it could be something that gives a key/lead toward the type of "Compulsion" that Verin uses.

Verin is of the stated opinion that Corianin Nedeal barely deserved the name of Dreamer.

Remember that Verin almost certainly recognized "Lord Luc" in the Two Rivers.

Remember that Verin has referred to Perrin's choice of the axe or the hammer.

Remember that Siuan says Verin never told her about giving Egwene a ter'angreal.

She did a study of girls coming to the White Tower who had already begun to channel, and discovered that two sorts of tricks predominated by far. The second most popular was some way to eavesdrop, while the first could be called "a way to get what I want." That could be to make Father buy her yet another new dress, or make Mother let her see a boy Mother doesn't approve of, or make a boy ask her dance or whatever. These things smack of Compulsion -- not only a forgotten Talent, but one that would be among the forbidden if it was known -- so first off the girls are broken of using them, though this is given out as part of making sure they don't channel without guidance until they are far enough along. In fact, the breaking takes so well with some girls that they forget how to do the weaves. For that matter, most of the others could as easily walk through a fire as use them.

Verin studied these abilities. Not surprisingly, given that they were all created by girls with no training, the methods vary widely, are usually extremely crude, and are almost always extremely specific. Even so, Verin has managed to learn how to put together a form of each with wider applications. Because of the original source, however, these methods have considerable limits.

Eavesdropping, Verin's method of: Limits? Maybe, unlike Moiraine and Egwene (and maybe Aviendha), she does not need a focus.

Compulsion, Verin's method/version of: This has a number of differences from true Compulsion, though it is related of course, and would almost certainly be considered the same as Compulsion if it were discovered by other sisters. It is not quick, for one thing. It takes some time to get the weaves -- complex because of the many sources -- just right. The subject needs to be off-guard, and it is better if the subject is emotionally vulnerable in some way. She cannot make anyone do

Pg 305

anything they truly would never do, though some of the girls seemed to be able to with their more specific weaves. If the subject cannot come up with his or her own reason for doing the thing, the weave will eventually fade without doing its job. Also, people who are strong-willed sometimes break free of the weave. In some, this could take the form of suddenly wondering why on earth they ever did what they did, and in others, of actually forgetting that they have done it. Part of her weave makes the subject forget that they were the subject of a weave, if they knew, and that part has never broken down. Another point is that she cannot tell the person what he or she is to do until the weaves are just right, or else they will remember that. When Verin is done, the subject remembers at most a dizzy spell, or maybe fainting. After that, it is up to the subject to find a reason to do what Verin wants that the subject can live with, and under the small-c compulsion of the weave, the subject will try very hard.

Another difficulty, from her point of view, is that it works much better on women than on men. She doesn't understand this, since some of the girls used theirs on fathers and boyfriends, but a man is much more likely to break free without doing she wants and also considerably more likely to question the action once done. Once, a man actually remembered what she had done, which caused no end of difficulty.

This is really not a patch on the true Compulsion, certainly not on the particularly subtle forms Graendal knows, but it does have one advantage over the larger form. Except for Graendal's forms, Compulsion can often be detected by those who know what they are looking for, by a Healer doing a simple check for health, by example. Verin's form is as undetectable as anything that Graendal can do.

Remember the secret: she is Black, though pulled into it unwillingly when she was investigating more than 70 years ago. She was researching tales and rumors of the Black Ajah and found herself in a position where she could either join or die. Decided on the spot she could do more trying to fight them from within than by dying. Has done the best she could while held to the Black Ajah oaths to still do as much good as she could.

Verin accompanied Cadsuane to Far Madding (where she uses an assumed name and nit is revealed that there might still be charges open against "Verin Mathwin") and then to Shadar Logoth.

GH 4 -- Verin Mathwin and Serafelle: mmp 53-54. First appearances.

GH7, mmp 448 -- Tiedra, Mistress: innkeeper, The Great Tree, Cairhien; Verin has stayed there before (mmp 447); knows Verin is Aes Sedai; warm smiles.

GH 41 -- mmp 581; Verin doesn't lessen the rainstorm because, she says, if she used that much of the Power, any Aes Sedai (or damane) closer than ten miles would know she had channeled. She could, in any case, only lessen a storm of that size

Pg 306

somewhat by herself.

GH 44 -- mmp 620-; Verin says, or implies, that damane might feel a man channeling unless the amount were small; what she has said is an untruth, as far as she knows;

DR 21 -- mmp 235 on; description of Verin's study in the Tower.
Mmp 237; Verin's report on the thirteen Black sisters who fled the Tower.
SR 33, mmp 539 -- Verin warns Perrin to watch Alanna; typifies Tower plots.

X

Terez
04-27-2017, 11:40 PM
I asked Alan last time I was at the library what was up with the gray text, and this is what he said:

I'm pretty sure the light gray font you saw was a monotone copy of red type. Which raises the question, why red? I can think of three instances why the original would have been written in red: 1) Jim had asked Maria or me a question about something that had happened in past books (such as continuity questions), we responded in red to set off from the question in black, and somewhere along the line Jim pasted the response into his notes; 2) Jim typed it in red to bring the passage to his own attention, for a specific reason; and 3) sometimes he typed pages and pages in red, for no discernible reason-- maybe just for variety?

fionwe1987
04-28-2017, 12:21 AM
Amazing stuff Terez and Linda! Thanks so much for doing all this.

So, I'm a bit confused about Sedore (and Velina). The Companion says Sedore doesn't even know Alviarin's name, or that she's BA. But Velina's entry says she and Sedore are the only two who know Alviarin, which is untrue since Galina knows Alviarin, and is second in command to her.

Also, any other members listed as being in the Supreme Council? Sheriam, I would think, given what Egwene said Verin reported about her. Anything else interesting on Sheriam? Was she always marked for the Black? And do the Blacks try hard to have BA member as Mistress of Novices?

Interesting to know Siuan wanted Elayne and Rand separated. We know she did send Min with the embassy, so that part seems to have made it to the books.

Linda: the Lanfear thing is interesting. I think RJ may have seen LTT as a class apart, not in raw strength, but as the complete package, when you consider strength and skill. Looks like Lanfear was right up there, which kind of makes sense.

Terez: Glad to finally have an explanation for Corianin's notes not being passed on to Egwene. The BA stuff makes sense, but not wanting to give Egwene preconceptions is an interesting angle. Might make a lot of sense if you're never going to receive formal training, but I wonder what the Wise Ones would think of the notion... :D

The Verin entry doesn't seem to have any specifics of how she was forced to turn Black. I wish RJ had fleshed that out, it might have made a fascinating short story. No clue on how powerful her angreal was either, eh?

Terez, any more notes on Sierin Vayu? Did Siuan's note tip her off to Chesmal's role in Tamra's death and the vileness?

Terez
04-28-2017, 12:34 AM
Amazing stuff Terez and Linda! Thanks so much for doing all this.

So, I'm a bit confused about Sedore (and Velina). The Companion says Sedore doesn't even know Alviarin's name, or that she's BA. But Velina's entry says she and Sedore are the only two who know Alviarin, which is untrue since Galina knows Alviarin, and is second in command to her.
In both cases, it's prefaced by "MAYBE; MAYBE NOT:" so it wasn't set in stone (not that anything was, really). One of them might have taken Galina's place, but either way, I'm sure there was something in the notes, somewhere, that caused them to go another way.

Also, any other members listed as being in the Supreme Council? Sheriam, I would think, given what Egwene said Verin reported about her.
There's no indication that she had any real power.

Anything else interesting on Sheriam? Was she always marked for the Black?
Definitely not. She's not marked as Black in her entry in this file. It wasn't Brandon's choice, though; there's indications that RJ had decided on her being Black in other files. I'll have to dig it out later when I'm home and have more time, unless Marie wants to do it.

Terez, any more notes on Sierin Vayu? Did Siuan's note tip her off to Chesmal's role in Tamra's death and the vileness?
I will look tomorrow. It's our last day in the library, though, and I want to see if I can find some deleted scenes, so I'm not going to spend much time on the Aes Sedai file if I can help it.

fionwe1987
04-28-2017, 12:51 AM
In both cases, it's prefaced by "MAYBE; MAYBE NOT:" so it wasn't set in stone (not that anything was, really). One of them might have taken Galina's place, but either way, I'm sure there was something in the notes, somewhere, that caused them to go another way.
Ahh, so RJ was leaving himself room on this. Makes sense.

There's no indication that she had any real power.
Except Egwene's statement to her in tGS that Verin told her Sheriam was high in the Black's organization. Sheriam also seems to know Verin, meaning they were in the same heart, or she knew of several other Blacks.

Definitely not. She's not marked as Black in her entry in this file. It wasn't Brandon's choice, though; there's indications that RJ had decided on her being Black in other files. I'll have to dig it out later when I'm home and have more time, unless Marie wants to do it.
I was actually taken aback when she was revealed Black. It makes sense, but something about her seemed to make me think she wasn't. I was pretty sure we'd just see her die or something. I do prefer it this way though.

I will look tomorrow. It's our last day in the library, though, and I want to see if I can find some deleted scenes, so I'm not going to spend much time on the Aes Sedai file if I can help it.
Deleted scenes would be awesome! Thanks again for all this!

Tamyrlin
04-28-2017, 10:56 AM
They have been rummaging through her experiences, making her relive them in the form of dreams that seem like real life, raping her mind in effect. They concentrated on things that engendered strong emotion, whether love or hate or fear of whatever, so long as it is strong. The point is to feed off the engendered emotion. When repetition dulls the emotion, they would alter the events to make the emotions strong again. They always made these changes in slow increments, just enough to strengthen the emotion again without wasting any. Example: Lan dumped in the pond, first just as it really happened, then he became rougher at it until [he] beat her first, and she was so shocked she could not channel; then he made love to her; then he raped her; then she killed him. Slow progressions through possibilities, however improbable they were in reality, just so long as they intensify the emotions. They could not introduce things outside of her memory -- for example, somebody she has never seen -- but anything in there already could be rearranged any way they wanted. Example: she could as a grown woman watch her mother (dead before she reached adulthood) plot and execute the murder of her father (who died in battle when she was a child) with a collection of people glimpsed during her travels.

That portion of Moiraine's entry is incredible. That will change my next read through, certainly, even in anticipation of what is going to happen to her. It also speaks to the Finns capabilities, and makes them even more terrifying than ever before. No wonder they made an agreement with the use of the ter'angreal doorways.

Tamyrlin
04-28-2017, 11:06 AM
Verin was not upset over Alanna bonding Rand against his will as she made out. She wants a string to Rand; Alanna, emotionally vulnerable because of her Warder's death, can be manipulated into being that string; and using Alanna provides a little distance for Verin, and maybe a little safety.

I misread this the first time I saw it...but it provides a little bit of room to play. Verin wasn't upset. She wanted a string. Alanna was vulnerable and could be manipulated. Unfortunately, it leans towards after the fact, though the notes still leave room to believe there was prior manipulation of Alanna with intent to create that string.

Tamyrlin
04-28-2017, 11:11 AM
I found this information on Lanfear in some notes for TDR.

"Selene: [Lanfear]

She may use other names, other appearances. She can, within very broad limits, change both her apparent age and her physical appearance. Not her general size, though. She is always the same height, etc.] No matter what Ba’alzamon wants, she has her own plans. She wants power for herself, for one thing, and none of that sitting at the feet of Ba’alzamon and ruling all below. Power in her own right, with none above her. Beside that, she wants Rand al’Thor. More specifically, she wants Lews Therin Telamon reborn. When he last lived, she lost him to another; this time she means him to be hers. She is a Power Wielder at least the equal of Ishamael, the Betrayer of Hope, who was accounted the most powerful of the Forsaken, but she never liked flaunting her ability, preferring to let others think she was less powerful than she actually was. This made them careless, and gave her advantages. She may well have been close to Lews Therin himself in strength."

This limits illusion a little differently than in the books. The suggestion that Lanfear disguised her ability is not new but the relative strength of Ishamael and LTT is implied to be wider than in the books. Her motivations are unwavering however.

I do love the suggestion in the notes, whether Jordan changed his mind and diminished her power later on, that originally he was intending for her to be at least the strength level of Ishamael (implied to if not greater). That is dead on how I see her relevance to the over story arc, and where she comes in as far as potential impact and raw power.

WOT Ethnographer
04-28-2017, 01:58 PM
Thanks to Terez and Linda for sharing the treasures of your search.

I would like to echo fionwe1987 for any further details on unusual OP abilities and Talents, including if there is any more information on Milking Tears, Spinning Earthfire, and the Voice?

Maybe even any further details on the question if Compulsion is a Talent or just an ability? The Companion says no, obviously, but the Verin bio you posted mentions it as a Talent as Moghedien's POV in the series (in ACOS I think).

Also, any further details you can share about the One Power Strength levels would be appreciated. Some current questions I have:

In the notes, are there further different rankings about approximately how much weight the different strength levels can use the Power to lift? i.e. Moiraine's entry you just shared that said she could only "pick up a book with effort."

Is there anywhere in the notes a clear articulation of the level of strength needed to become Accepted?

Finally, Is the bottom of the OP scale 66(55) or 72 (60) as mentioned in the Companion, Strength in the One Power entry: "Strength level 56( 44) was the 300-year age level, 67( 55) the 200-year age level, and the bottom level, 72( 60), approximately the 150-year level for women. The male equivalents were approximately the 240-year, 180-year, and 135-year levels for men." I assume Morgase occupies this bottom level, but I am not sure that Moiraine does.


Thanks again+

Linda
04-28-2017, 08:31 PM
I would like to echo fionwe1987 for any further details on unusual OP abilities and Talents, including if there is any more information on Milking Tears, Spinning Earthfire, and the Voice?

Nothing new on these.

Maybe even any further details on the question if Compulsion is a Talent or just an ability? The Companion says no, obviously, but the Verin bio you posted mentions it as a Talent as Moghedien's POV in the series (in ACOS I think).

Described as a weave:

"Compulsion: a complex weave that compels the subject to do one’s will; a favourite of Graendal and other Forsaken; uses Air, Spirit and Water; Rahvin just used a weave of Spirit."

Incidentally, Skimming is also described as a weave.

However, Illusion is called a Talent:

"Illusion: a Talent, aka Mask of Mirrors or Mirror of Mists, which allows one to change appearance; term used by Forsaken; uses Air and Fire."

Listening to the Wind refers to two different weaves:

"Listening to the Wind: Wisdoms with the spark use it to predict storms; also, a weave that when woven through the sky, can draw moisture to create rain clouds; uses Air and Water."

This is also effectively a Talent, since for the first type (which Nynaeve showed) she never channelled to do it even after she knew and accepted that she could channel.

Most of the information on weaves and talents is as per my weaves and talents article, or not as good as it.

No more info on the strength ranking of the kind about the levels to be Accepted. In fact, there's a fair amount of overlap eg for Travelling, because it is a Talent as well as a weave.

Morgase would be lower than Moiraine, who would be next lowest. Moiraine is 66. Morgase would be lower than that, whether it is 68 or 70 or 72 is not known.

Terez
04-28-2017, 11:22 PM
Finally, Is the bottom of the OP scale 66(55) or 72 (60) as mentioned in the Companion, Strength in the One Power entry: "Strength level 56( 44) was the 300-year age level, 67( 55) the 200-year age level, and the bottom level, 72( 60), approximately the 150-year level for women. The male equivalents were approximately the 240-year, 180-year, and 135-year levels for men." I assume Morgase occupies this bottom level, but I am not sure that Moiraine does.

Morgase would be lower than Moiraine, who would be next lowest. Moiraine is 66. Morgase would be lower than that, whether it is 68 or 70 or 72 is not known.
I'm still not entirely sure about this. I never saw anything in the notes that indicates that power levels go that low; of course it's quite possible that we missed something, but Moiraine's level was the lowest given at 66(54). This is strange because RJ said in his COT/KOD notes that the level at which the ability to lift drops to a feather was 57(45), which is exactly why we had Morgase pegged at that level or slightly below, but apparently Moiraine can pick up a book with effort. I think 57(45) is the level they chose for Sorilea in the Companion, even though it says 57(35); that's clearly a typo. RJ never decided, I don't think - he always gave a range for her in the notes, between 51(39) and 60(48). Anyway, I'm not entirely convinced that 66 isn't rock-bottom for women; we'll see if this changes in the next edition of the Companion. I rather liked the idea of there being 72 levels total, including the 6 extra male levels. This is why we had decided there were probably 6 extra male levels on top of the female levels before the Companion even came out, and the lowest strength given for a man was ++3. In other words, we had no other reason to assume it was 6 levels, but this was confirmed in a Logain bit I pulled out of the notes today:

Strength: ++2 (that is, one step below Rand and five steps above the strongest women.)
That's from Box 59 Folder 1. I mostly skimmed through that file; not much interesting in it aside from this:

Page 99

Rand has 3 weakened seals (1 from Tear, 1 from Rhuidean, 1 from Taim). The one from Taim given at least temporarily into Bashere's keeping. Knows 3 are broken, thinks 1 may be whole somewhere unknown. Actually, the other 4 all are broken. Moiraine recovered 1 broken seal at the Eye, gave it to Siuan; its remains are now in Tower (Rand saw this one). She recovered 2 more at Falme, both broken; end destination unknown; they were not sent on to the Tower with Elayne, Egwene et al (Rand saw these also). Nynaeve and Elayne recovered one whole in Tanchico, but it was broken on way to Salidar; the remains were given to Sheriam and her council and are now in the possession of the rebel Hall of the Tower. Thus, the only unbroken seals are the 3 in Rand's possession, 1 from the Stone of Tear, 1 from Rhuidean and 1 from Taim.

Rand knows that 3 of the seals are broken (the two at Falme and the one from the Eye of the World), but he doesn't know that the seventh seal (the one taken to Salidar) also has been broken. AT LEAST, NOT UNTIL HE LEARNS IT FROM NYNAEVE.
And that is only barely interesting.

Terez
04-29-2017, 02:45 AM
I misread this the first time I saw it...
I thought about saying something but I figured you would figure it out eventually. :p

GonzoTheGreat
04-29-2017, 04:15 AM
Maybe even any further details on the question if Compulsion is a Talent or just an ability? The Companion says no, obviously, but the Verin bio you posted mentions it as a Talent as Moghedien's POV in the series (in ACOS I think).
It could be like Healing and Traveling, where the standard way of doing it is a weave that can be learned by anyone with enough strength to do it, while the Talent allows one to surpass what ordinary channellers can do.
On the other hand, it could also be just an indication of the ignorance of the AS, who no longer remember many of the things that could be done in the AOL, and have garbled records of what was learned and what were Talents.

Graendal provides some support for the first view. While every channeller with reasonable strength could use Compulsion, she was far more skilled with it than anyone else. That would make no sense if it were only a matter of strength and practice.

WOT Ethnographer
04-29-2017, 02:07 PM
Hey GonzoTheGreat, I am not sure how far we can go down on line of thought on this thread, but I did want to share a couple of thoughts with you.

Yes, I have always thought the same thing regarding Compulsion, meaning that it is a Talent like Healing, Traveling, Earth Singing, etc. and not a Talent like Listening to the Winds, Seeing Ta'veren, Reading Ter'angreal, etc. Perhaps the difference is because it is a weave based Talent and less of just an ability based Talent, if the distinction makes sense.

I tend to think about Compulsion using the analogy of Healing, with, for example, Egwene's Talent in Healing. She is able to form the weave, but she cannot do much with it. I have always assumed Compulsion was a Talent, "a Talent is something one is born with and cannot be learned" (Q&A with Maria Simons (Plot Related Q&A With Maria Simons + New MAFO by Luckers)) and is an ability in the "One Power in specific areas" (Companion - Talents entry), and there are also references to it being a Talent, for example:
In ACOS, Chapter 30, Moghedien wishes she had a stronger Talent in Compulsion. Also, for example, in the Verin Notes Entry Terez shared in this thread, it mentions, related to Verin's study of channeling tricks of girls coming to the White Tower, that "these things smack of Compulsion, not only a forgotten Talent, but one that would be among the forbidden if it was known."

Yet the Companion says this about Compulsion: "Compulsion, though called a Talent by some, was not one; it could be learned by any channeler, taking into account the limits of strength and skill." This seems to imply that Talents cannot be learned by everyone (similar to the above Maria quote) which makes sense, but at least some people who are not Talented in one area are able to make the weave, even if it can really not function well/correctly.

Linda also noted it as being described in a set of RJ's notes as "a weave" and not a "Talent."

So apparently, in this interpretation, someone could, through having sufficient strength and continued practice, keep building their skill at Compulsion, without dependent on a natural "knack" for the weave... And apparently that is what Graendal, Rahvin, etc. did. And Graendal is the best at it because she practiced so much and had special expertise related to psychology...

I still think I have a better time conceptualizing it as a Talent, and I am still wondering about the discrepancies between the references we have to it being a Talent and the non-Talent weave interpretation.

It also makes me think that it would be helpful to have this conversation using a typology of Talents, for example those dependent on weaves versus those that are not, and try to define them in distinction to skills and abilities in the One Power.

WOT Ethnographer
04-29-2017, 02:23 PM
Linda and Terez, thanks for answering my questions.

I have some more if you are willing to continue sharing what you know or have seen:

First, a few questions about strength:

* Was Semirhage really noted as 1(+12) as a strength ranking in her entry? This surprised me when I read it in the Companion.

*Does the notes mention anywhere a strength in the Power for Tuon were she to start channeling? (this seems to be a question for many fans)

*So, there are no strength rankings for non-Forsaken male channelers, other than Rand?

And few about weaves:

*Is there a mention of which of the Five Powers are needed to weave Balefire for both saidin and saidar?

*What about the flows mentioned to weave Healing using saidin?

*Any details on if the saidin cuendillar weave makes black cuendillar?

Finally, one about the entries themselves:

*Do many channelers have very developed Special, Skills, Abilities, and Talents section in their notes entry? Or are they usually one item? Does this entry usually mention their abilities in all Five Powers?

I appreciate anything you can share your insight on.

Terez
04-29-2017, 02:34 PM
Was Semirhage really noted as 1(+12) as a strength ranking in her entry? This surprised me when I read it in the Companion.
Yes. It surprised us too when we first saw it in the notes a few years ago, because Lanfear seemed to think she was the strongest woman, but there's nothing in the series that contradicts it.

Does the notes mention anywhere a strength in the Power for Tuon were she to start channeling? (this seems to be a question for many fans)
Not that we saw...and we looked for it.

So, there are no strength rankings for non-Forsaken male channelers, other than Rand?
There's the one for Logain I gave above. I was happy to find that; all we found in our trip a few years ago was Forsaken strengths. I think RJ didn't often note male strengths because they just weren't as important to the story. The only reason he had an intricate ranking system for the women is because it was important to the Aes Sedai hierarchy, and it also affected how they viewed and interacted with the other female channelers. I think the only reason he bothered to give Logain's strength in the notes is because he had already noted in the series that he was one step below Rand, so why not?

The other things, I would have to look up. I'm still in Charleston (have to drive to Mississippi tomorrow) and I'm sick as a dog, so I'm not feeling it right now.

WOT Ethnographer
05-01-2017, 04:04 AM
Thanks Terez. I hope you get well soon.

I look forward to any other insights you could share after feeling better.

Kiruna
05-01-2017, 05:54 PM
Thank you, Terez. Hope you get well soon.

It is sad that there is no mention about Tuon's power level, I always wondered how would that effect her status if she was as weak as Morgase or as strong as Caddy.

There is also no mention about the lost Talents, oh well.

These two were among my questions so thank you for answering them Terez and thank you for asking them before I could WOT Ethnographer.

~

WOT Ethnographer asked my another favorite question: the skills and abilities of channelers. I wonder if there is anything that stands out to you like the number of weaves they can work at a time, their Talents and such.

Also, is there anything more about Earth Singing, it seems not very impressive but it is never clearly showcased in the books imo. Any channelers who have that Talent?

~

I am curious about Voice too. In back-to-back scene one of the Aes Sedai say this young Aiel boy is now grown enough to join the Singing because his voice is now deep enough for that.

I saw in Linda's blog and she mentions how men sing and women clap in that seed singing scene, there is even a line about women's clapping and life beat. I always thought singing part was more important.

So Aiel could enhance channeling (per BWBOBA iirc) or make things grow faster and better with Voice. But could women sing to make plants grow faster?

The more I look into it the more this Voice seems like a magic system on its own.

Thank you.

WOT Ethnographer
05-02-2017, 05:49 AM
Yes, to echo Kiruna, knowing more about how the Aiel of the Age of Legends could enhance the One Power and about which channellers if any are mentioned as having a Talent in Earth Singing (or Emulating Ta'veren) would be interesting.

I am wondering if we are conflating seed-singing and the Voice together? Or maybe they are related? This is a bit of a mystery to me at this point.

Davian93
05-03-2017, 11:43 AM
This is all awesome...thank you Terez and Linda.

Chaosanth
05-05-2017, 09:29 AM
Was there anything regarding RJ'S plans for Shara or their culture in the notes?

Terez
05-05-2017, 11:38 PM
Was there anything regarding RJ'S plans for Shara or their culture in the notes?
Not that we have found. Brandon has said publicly that Demandred's backstory in Shara was all him.

Weird Harold
05-06-2017, 12:12 AM
Not that we have found. Brandon has said publicly that Demandred's backstory in Shara was all him.
That implies that RJ's notes didn't have anything specific about Demandred's whereabouts or activities?

Terez
05-06-2017, 12:19 AM
That implies that RJ's notes didn't have anything specific about Demandred's whereabouts or activities?
Not that we saw. We have no idea what was in the endgame notes given directly to Brandon for work on AMOL, though. We have seen RJ's working notes through KOD and some of his notes look beyond KOD, but the stuff they got from RJ on his deathbed, the drafts of the scenes he wrote, etc. were not available to us. I discussed that some with Brandon on Reddit. (https://www.reddit.com/r/WoT/comments/3snjii/spoilers_allsignings_and_secrets_terez_reveals/)

fionwe1987
05-06-2017, 03:19 AM
Hope you're feeling better, Terez.

I suspect RJ wasn't sure about Demandred, and only decided very late to place him in Shara. The way RJ wrote Demandred in WH, during the Cleansing, he was either going for Demandred to be Roedran, or else he would have had to do quite a bit of character growth for him to fit as anything close to the Demandred we got. Or maybe RJ would have had him be in Shara, but be the petty whiny little shit he was shown to be in Winter's Heart.

Terez, anything in the notes about Amys's strength. It was left out of the Companion, but the books themselves are a little contradictory on her strength. Melaine was placed with Faolain at 17(5), which matches Egwene's later thought putting Amys at Theodrin's level of 15(3). Do the notes confirm this? Or is Amys higher up?

Terez
05-06-2017, 03:29 AM
She was 16/4 in the notes. I had a list of references for this stuff; I need to find it.

Edit: found it directly given in a partial file on Wise Ones that used to be in Box 57 (not sure now; still need to sort this stuff out):

Strength Level: 16 (4). This is the approximately the 650 to 675-year level. She is "as strong as most Aes Sedai Egwene has met;" later, "no stronger than Theodrin and Faolain."

Her strength is also given in an Elayne file that used to be in Box 59. Thank the Light that Dom and I did this work early on and I can find references for everyone's strengths.

fionwe1987
05-06-2017, 03:41 AM
She was 16/4 in the notes. I had a list of references for this stuff; I need to find it.

Edit: found it directly given in a partial file on Wise Ones that used to be in Box 57 (not sure now; still need to sort this stuff out):



Her strength is also given in an Elayne file that used to be in Box 59. Thank the Light that Dom and I did this work early on and I can find references for everyone's strengths.

Cool, thank you! Another good place that reinforces that one level of strength is not super easy to perceive, and being even 2-3 levels below someone isn't that significant, in the lingo of Aes Sedai.

One other question, that came up because I went back to the Reddit thread you linked to. I remember wondering then about the idea of using the CK in the Last Battle that RJ had. Clearly, he wrote this out, but did the notes provide any details of how it was to be done? Was it to be Rand and Nynaeve wielding them?

Terez
05-06-2017, 08:33 AM
Cool, thank you! Another good place that reinforces that one level of strength is not super easy to perceive, and being even 2-3 levels below someone isn't that significant, in the lingo of Aes Sedai.
I wouldn't say this is common, and that discrepancy might actually be why her strength was left out in the Companion.

One other question, that came up because I went back to the Reddit thread you linked to. I remember wondering then about the idea of using the CK in the Last Battle that RJ had. Clearly, he wrote this out, but did the notes provide any details of how it was to be done? Was it to be Rand and Nynaeve wielding them?
This is something I will have to dig for. One day I'll have this stuff organized better; I need to do that before the next time I go to the library, that's for sure. Thinking about making a private wiki to sort it all out.

fionwe1987
05-06-2017, 04:23 PM
I wouldn't say this is common, and that discrepancy might actually be why her strength was left out in the Companion.

It happens with Mesaana discussing Alviarin's strength too. She describes her strength as "not much, but enough" for Traveling, yet Alviarin is 4 levels above minimum Traveling strength. Too, RJ called out the 5 level difference between Nynaeve and Egwene, and the 5 level difference between Egwene and Siuan, when discussing relative strengths, and this does seem to be the threshold at which an Aes Sedai transitions from mere deference to obedience.

It is also obvious in the interaction of the Salidar six. Sheriam clearly leads, but the others are far from shy with pushing their opinion forward. Nisao also has no fear of getting quite heated with Myrelle, in the same scene where they both are scandalized at Siuan for not maintaining the proprieties. There's also this statement from Egwene:

>Sheriam was clearly the strongest woman in the room aside from Egwene herself, and Myrelle next, though it was hard to be certain; the rest all seemed close, except for Siuan. She was weakest by a fair margin.

Morvrin, Carlinya and Aniaya are the same level as Myrelle, and Beonin a level below, but Egwene sees them all as very close, with Sheriam standing out becasue she alone was level 14.

So Egwene's describing Amys as "as strong as most Aes Sedai", and lumping her with Theodrin makes sense. She does it at other times too, as do other Aes Sedai.

This is something I will have to dig for. One day I'll have this stuff organized better; I need to do that before the next time I go to the library, that's for sure. Thinking about making a private wiki to sort it all out.
I suspected it might not be readily available, but this kind of stuff will be truly fascinating to know, once you organize your way through all the files. Certainly, they'd give richer context to some of the events in the last book to know other vague ideas RJ had (or so I hope)!

I will also "selflessly" offer my help in organizing any private wiki you want to create. :D

ETA: One other thing. Going through the Companion, it is pretty obvious RJ had extensive notes on each of the ferrets. They seem to be an interesting mix of characters. Was there any hints in the notes about how RJ intended to use them in the final book? It seems Meidani was the only one Brandon used because she was the most prominent of them due to her relationship to Elaida, but I wonder if RJ had plans for them with Egwene.

Davian93
05-06-2017, 06:12 PM
Not that we have found. Brandon has said publicly that Demandred's backstory in Shara was all him.

That explains why it didn't really gel with the rest of what we knew of Demandred.

WOT Ethnographer
05-07-2017, 07:45 AM
Terez, is there any information on the strength level of Shemari of the Brown Ajah who is the friend of Phaedrine? She does not have a strength level listed in the Companion, but I wanted to inquire in case you had seen anything in the notes.

Terez
05-07-2017, 07:55 AM
Nope, nothing on her. I'd say if I was still in the library, I could look her up in the Aes Sedai file, but honestly if her strength was in there, Team Jordan wouldn't have neglected to include it in the Companion.

WOT Ethnographer
05-07-2017, 08:33 AM
Thanks Terez.

WOT Ethnographer
05-08-2017, 08:45 AM
Terez, a few more questions:

Did you see other weaves, besides Traveling, that noted the amount of Power on the OP strength scale that was needed to make the weave work (for the majority of channelers)? Possibly balefire, Compulsion, etc.

Was Caressing the Child noted as a Talent? or a Weave?

Was blocking a gateway noted as a Talent? I assume it is effectively a Talent, but it seems to be incredibly rare.

GonzoTheGreat
05-08-2017, 11:13 AM
Was blocking a gateway noted as a Talent? I assume it is effectively a Talent, but it seems to be incredibly rare.
That might be part of having Travelling as a Talent, rather than merely something you can do if you're strong enough. Just as Nynaeve can do things in the area of Healing that are well outside what most others can manage, even if they have a similar amount of power available.

Chaosanth
05-11-2017, 11:40 AM
Not that we have found. Brandon has said publicly that Demandred's backstory in Shara was all him.

Aside from what Brandon came up with and what Jordan had already stated in the books and Big White Book, was there anything else Jordan indicated regarding Shara or its culture in the notes that did not appear in the story til KOD?

Thanks Terez

Terez
05-11-2017, 12:04 PM
Aside from what Brandon came up with and what Jordan had already stated in the books and Big White Book, was there anything else Jordan indicated regarding Shara or its culture in the notes that did not appear in the story til KOD?
Not much, no. We only found one Shara file, and judging by the Companion entry, that's the only Shara file that was in the notes. Most of the information was included in the Companion in one way or another; the only exception is a few paragraphs that RJ had set aside for maybe using in Noal's stories.

SHARA: (for possible Jain Farstrider comments)

Lots of things he didn't understand. Every town had two palaces, only not exactly palaces. One full of men in robes, the other of women. These men and women never married. Men would visit the one 'palace' full of men; women the 'palace' full of women. Vice versa not allowed, except for king and queen. The men and the women meet in public places and for public ceremonies. Robed men and women seemed equal to nobles, but he saw them begging by the roadside, too. Actually, these men and women appear to think they stand above the nobles, perhaps above the king or queen. They form the bureaucracy, and perform all weddings. They keep extensive records on everything, with the sole exception of the Ayyad. There isn't anything in the country that isn't recorded and tabulated. These records seem to be completely duplicated by both the men and the women in these palaces, with copies of everything sent to the corresponding palaces in the capital city, which no outsider has ever seen.

King alternate with queens, though not called that. Say they have a king. He rules absolutely; completely absolutely, with no restraint. at the end of seven years, the king always dies, and she immediately remarries, on the very same day. For seven years she rules absolutely, after which she dies, her husband succeeds, and the pattern begins again.
Etc.

Kiruna
08-26-2017, 11:29 PM
Any new, interesting tidbits you like to share? :)