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-   -   TGH: Ch. 07 - Leane of the Black Ajah (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=6948)

Tamyrlin 05-11-2012 11:46 AM

TGH: Ch. 07 - Leane of the Black Ajah
 
Quote:

TITLE: Great Hunt
CHAPTER: 7 - Blood Calls Blood
The pause made his hackles rise. She was lying, somehow. Aes Sedai never lied, but they did not always tell the truth, either. He was not certain what was going on - Liandrin looking for him, Leane lying to him - but he thought it was time he got away from Aes Sedai. There was nothing he could do for Mat.
Doubtful, but should be fun to watch for this one since we know there are going to be some darkfriend reveals in AMoL. I wonder how many of the Aes Sedai that came with Siuan were Black Ajah.

Quote:

TITLE: Great Hunt
CHAPTER: 7 - Blood Calls Blood
"He's asleep. Leane - that's the Aes Sedai - said he would be on his feet in a few hours." He shrugged uncomfortably. "I think she was lying. I know Aes Sedai never lie, not so you can catch them, but she was lying, or keeping something back." He paused, looking at Rand sideways. "You didn't mean all that? We will leave here together? You, and me, and Mat?"
He makes room for it being that she was keeping something back...but he also seems pretty sure she was lying.

Tamyrlin 06-06-2012 03:34 PM

Lanfear and Leane
 
When Lanfear speaks with Mat in TDR:

Quote:

"A man named Abell Cauthon, and another named Tam al'Thor. They made nuisances of themselves until they gained an audience, I have heard, wanting to know where you and your friends were. And Siuan Sanche sent them back to the Two Rivers with empty hands, not even letting them know you were alive. Will they tell you that, unless you ask? Perhaps not even then, for you might try to run away back home."
And then this:

Quote:

TITLE: Dragon Reborn
CHAPTER: 20 - Visitations
"He did come. Leane spoke to him." The Keeper took it up immediately. "We did not know where you were then, Mat. I told him so, and he left before the heavy snows. I gave him some gold to make the journey home easier."
I never connected these events before, and while it's possible for another to have reported Tam and Abell having come to the White Tower, and with further investigation, finding out from those men that the Amyrlin had done nothing for them, it's still a fun connection to make, to Leane and Lanfear, however loose.

Terez 06-06-2012 03:54 PM

Leane would have been among those who reswore the Oaths and proved she was not a Darkfriend. As with Barasine, the only possibility she's Black is if Mesaana told her how to get around the Oaths, or if she figured it out on her own. Either seems unlikely.

Tamyrlin 06-06-2012 03:57 PM

Good point
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Terez (Post 191558)
Leane would have been among those who reswore the Oaths and proved she was not a Darkfriend. As with Barasine, the only possibility she's Black is if Mesaana told her how to get around the Oaths, or if she figured it out on her own. Either seems unlikely.

Forgot about the re-swearing.

Great Lord of the Dark 06-06-2012 04:10 PM

Stilling
 
If Leane was Black Ajah (she wasn't), stilling removed her Black Ajah Oath. She alone had the option of changing her mind about the whole thing. A hefty price to pay for getting free.

Tomp 06-06-2012 04:15 PM

Besides didn't they establish the fact that Mesaana knew how to beat the oath rod.
That knowledge may have been more widespread.

Terez 06-06-2012 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Great Lord of the Dark (Post 191561)
If Leane was Black Ajah (she wasn't), stilling removed her Black Ajah Oath. She alone had the option of changing her mind about the whole thing. A hefty price to pay for getting free.

In that context, I don't think that Alviarin would have allowed her to be stilled if she were Black. She would have found some way around it, which would have been easy enough considering how little Leane was involved in what Siuan was doing with Rand.

Terez 06-06-2012 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomp (Post 191562)
Besides didn't they establish the fact that Mesaana knew how to beat the oath rod.
That knowledge may have been more widespread.

Wat?

Tomp 06-06-2012 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terez (Post 191565)
Wat?

Egwene's conclusions/suspicions in TGS epilogue.

Tamyrlin 06-06-2012 04:55 PM

Damn
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Great Lord of the Dark (Post 191561)
If Leane was Black Ajah (she wasn't), stilling removed her Black Ajah Oath. She alone had the option of changing her mind about the whole thing. A hefty price to pay for getting free.

Didn't consider that either. And I disagree that Alviarin would have been able to stop Leane's stilling. She might have tried, but it's not a forgone conclusion that she should have been able to stop it.

Still life in the the idea, however loony. I'll keep "listening" for possible connections.

Terez 06-06-2012 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tamyrlin (Post 191572)
Didn't consider that either. And I disagree that Alviarin would have been able to stop Leane's stilling. She might have tried, but it's not a forgone conclusion that she should have been able to stop it.

She made sure no Blacks went with Toveine, before she had brought Elaida to heel. And I don't think Elaida really cared about Leane.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tamyrlin (Post 191572)
Still life in the the idea, however loony. I'll keep "listening" for possible connections.

Like my Aviendha theory? :)

Terez 06-06-2012 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomp (Post 191571)
Egwene's conclusions/suspicions in TGS epilogue.

What about them?

Tomp 06-06-2012 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terez (Post 191575)
What about them?

Just saying.
That it's (however extremely improbable) not impossible for Mesaana to have taught some BA sisters the method of bypassing the oath rod.
It's not impossible (although it is unlikely) that Leane was one of those.
Either in her tower cell or earlier in rebel camp.

One can't totally rule it out.

I think.

My logic has been lacking in some posts recently, so if I'm mistaken I'd appreciate if you'd let me know.

Terez 06-06-2012 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomp (Post 191576)
Just saying.
That it's (however extremely improbable) not impossible for Mesaana to have taught some BA sisters the method of bypassing the oath rod.
It's not impossible (although it is unlikely) that Leane was one of those.

I mentioned that possibility in my very first post, and you opening your post with 'besides' didn't indicate that you were saying something that had already been said. I'm just trying to figure out what you meant here:

Quote:

Besides didn't they establish the fact that Mesaana knew how to beat the oath rod.
They did, pretty much, and if not, Brandon did.

Quote:

That knowledge may have been more widespread.
It's doubtful for many reasons. Hence this being a good place to invoke Occam.

Tomp 06-06-2012 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terez (Post 191577)
I mentioned that possibility in my very first post

Missed that

GonzoTheGreat 06-07-2012 03:23 AM

Is Mesaana bound by the Oath Rod?

I know that at the moment, she's a bit mentally challenged when it comes to actually doing anything. But if she did swear any Oaths, then she should still be bound by those, whatever they are. So by testing whether or not she's bound, the AS should be at least be able to get some broad idea of what class of method she'd used for beating the thing.

Terez 06-07-2012 09:00 AM

The methods Brandon gave don't involve actually being bound by any oaths.

GonzoTheGreat 06-07-2012 10:34 AM

One of the methods which was mentioned in the books (a weave which lets you say something entirely different than others hear) would leave Mesaana bound.


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