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fionwe1987 10-12-2015 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C Rutherford (Post 233453)
In the Adeleas entry it says she and Vandene went into retirement in 970 NE. Yet in the books it says they retired 70 years prior (about 930 NE). Lots of sisters are alive to remember 30 years ago. Heck Romanda didn't stun anyone when she came out of her retirement which was only a couple years off and she is older. The description about them being a secret resource of Moiraine's makes more sense if they retired 70 years ago in big part because so many older sisters who would have known them and been contemporaries were apparently killed off by the Black Ajah. That nature didn't take care of that is.

But Vandene and Adeleas weren't prominent powerful sisters. While the 70 vs. 30 thing is a discrepancy, it doesn't change a lot in book. Cadsuane was seen 20 years ago, yet everyone is shocked to see her alive.

Quote:

I do think it is interesting that Cetalia was killed by the Black Ajah. Also it looks like 981 saw three sitters needed which might also point to at least part of the Black Ajah's spree.
Wow, this is in the Companion? Can I get some key words so I can search for the right text?

Not surprising though. She was the head of the Blue network. Siuan herself points out in NS how she might be able to track the Black's activity if they go around killing men and boys. Who better than the head of the network to sift through the patterns, and arrive at the exact same conclusion Siuan did? In fact, she may well have gone to Sierin Vayu, who already had an inkling of some crazy stuff happening from Siuan's note.

The fact that a Blue then stepped in a and so effectively ended the pogroms adds to this theory, I feel.

Terez 10-12-2015 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepinghour (Post 233451)
Yeah, they seemed a bit of an odd couple in that Kiruna was the beautiful, queenly type (and was in fact the sister of a King) while Bera was always described as looking like a farmwife. Apparently they were pillow friends when they were younger and went on to men exclusively, but remained close friends. So they remind a bit of Moiraine and Siuan.

Definitely. Cue Perrin:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perrin LOC
By smell he would have said Bera or Kiruna was the leader; Bera, he thought, though it was close and sometimes seemed to shift the other way for a time.

So it seems the farmwife leads among them. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepinghour (Post 233451)
Well, Lanfear would enjoy being part of a "power couple," and Semirhage would be just too terrifying for most everyone else. :) Interestingly, Mesaana's entry mentioned a "close and rather peculiar" relationship with Demandred and Semirhage, which probably shouldn't be interpreted as a wacky threesome romance, but was an interesting tidbit nonetheless.

Yeah, I tend to doubt that. I suspect it was peculiar because they could tolerate working with each other for so long. All three of them probably had a pretty good sense of how easily they could be picked off if they worked alone, and that made them different than most of the other Forsaken. They were able to persist without the power struggles that handicapped other potential alliances among the Forsaken because they were, in a sense, very pragmatic people.

fionwe1987 10-12-2015 08:22 PM

Talking of Kiruna, I was able to read some more snippets on her. Apparently, she tried to run away and join the Tower, twice when she was 12, and twice more when she was 13. The second time, she actually made it to the Tower, but was sent back because she was too young. She was finally accepted at 14 because of her determination, and apparently her fierce desire to be Aes Sedai was "well known" in the Tower.

Also, the Red Ajah has a secret ceremony called the Grand Emergence, where they walk through a warded place, and still speak in a guarded way. It was a plan for seizing the Tower, "should the need arise".

Interestingly, Katerine joined the BA in 987 NE, 5 years after she was raised to the shawl, so she wasn't marked out by Merean or anything.

Merean was Andoran, and had a Warder early on, but never bonded another after he died. Rumor was that she loved him, but he had been a Darkfriend, and she didn't find it easy to get a replacement and without the Three Oaths, never found the need.

Merean, incidentally, killed Larelle soon after Moiraine and Siuan fled. Larelle was one of Tamra's searchers, though neither Moiraine or Siuan knew this to save her. This confirms that there were more women that Siuan or Moiraine knew of. They all seem to have been very strong in the Power, apart from being adherents of the Law.

The Mistress of Novices, incidentally, could be chosen by the Hall and forced on an Amyrlin. She had absolute authority over her charges, and could defy even the Amyrlin Seat, or the lesser consensus of the Hall. Only the Greater Consensus could overrule her. This is interesting, because it explains why Elaida had to order Silviana's arrest. If she allowed her to continue as MoN, she'd need a Greater Consensus from the Hall to keep Egwene imprisoned, which she was highly unlikely to get. So she substituted Katerine for the post.

Lelaine: She was only named First Selector after the Tower split, meaning the previous head died. She apparently was fond of Logain as a "fierce dog she had tamed". Whoa. Also, she and her faction tried to use tel'aran'rhiod to spy on Rand.

C Rutherford 10-12-2015 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fionwe1987 (Post 233454)
But Vandene and Adeleas weren't prominent powerful sisters. While the 70 vs. 30 thing is a discrepancy, it doesn't change a lot in book. Cadsuane was seen 20 years ago, yet everyone is shocked to see her alive.

And Romanda is not. And the matter of shock is not the point. The establishment of them as 70 years in retirement is. It is who they are in the books from the time Moiraine visits them to the time they reveal a significant aspect in the Garenia reveal. You might not think so. But I do. and I've consulted the judges and that is what matters ;) For me.

I simply don't think I'm going to throw away a discrepancy as such or mattering as much because someone else thinks it matters or doesn't matter that much. No offense. And I expect you will use your own judgement for yourself in the same manner.

Plus I think some of the shock is simply due to the fact that some assumed she was dead because she had been quiet for so long. Certainly more than two dozen sisters who took Logain knew she was alive more than a year before she shows up in the books. Unless she wore a mask and rode off into the sunset.


Quote:

Originally Posted by fionwe1987 (Post 233454)
Wow, this is in the Companion? Can I get some key words so I can search for the right text?

Err....Cetalia Delarme? Didn't even need to do a search when I read it. Page 150. Was available just scrolling down the pages for preview.

Davian93 10-12-2015 09:35 PM

I'm fairly disappointed that there are so many apparent mistakes in the Companion so far. You'd think the editing would be nearly perfect after this many years.

fionwe1987 10-12-2015 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C Rutherford (Post 233457)
And Romanda is not. And the matter of shock is not the point. The establishment of them as 70 years in retirement is. It is who they are in the books from the time Moiraine visits them to the time they reveal a significant aspect in the Garenia reveal. You might not think so. But I do. and I've consulted the judges and that is what matters ;) For me.

I simply don't think I'm going to throw away a discrepancy as such or mattering as much because someone else thinks it matters or doesn't matter that much. No offense. And I expect you will use your own judgement for yourself in the same manner.

Plus I think some of the shock is simply due to the fact that some assumed she was dead because she had been quiet for so long. Certainly more than two dozen sisters who took Logain knew she was alive more than a year before she shows up in the books. Unless she wore a mask and rode off into the sunset.

Whoa hold your horses. I didn't tell you what to think, anywhere. I only said that just because they retired 30 years ago doesn't mean they wouldn't be forgotten.

Weiramon 10-13-2015 01:40 AM

Burn my soul, that ugly whelp of the Blacksmith's Asha'man wasn't so young as some of the peasants here claimed.

fionwe1987 10-13-2015 02:08 AM

Read some snippets about the BA. Apparently, Ishamael came up with the name as a joke. Apparently many BA members have been irked that they don't get to control all Darkfriends. There have been periodic attempts to achieve this, but the Darkfriends fight back with knives and poison.

The last attempt, apparently, was particularly disastrous. The BA, specifically, some members of the Supreme Council, were forced to eat humble pie in a meeting, and had to accept their votes being reduced from five to one (whatever that means).

Also, they apparently keep watch not just for potential Novice and Accepted who could become members, but Aes Sedai too. And if an Aes Sedai asked around about the BA, then the watch was increased.If she found any trace of them, she was brought before them, shielded, stripped and bound to increase the sense of vulnerability. Then, two knives were held at either end of her throat, and a mirror was placed in front of her so she could see her life's blood drained away if she was cut.

Then, she was woken up, and asked if she wanted to join. If she said no, they'd use the OP to question her about who she had talked to. If she said yes, the Oath Rod was placed in her hand and she was made to forswear her Oaths.

I put all this in because we can be pretty sure this is what Verin was faced with. She asked around, and was put in a life or death situation.

fionwe1987 10-13-2015 02:31 AM

The three BA Oaths:

1) I shall obey all commands given by those placed above me in service to the Great Lord.

2) I shall prepare for the day of the Great Lord's return

3) I shall hold close the secrets of the Black Ajah, unto the hour of my death.

Oath 3 seems different from what Verin said in tGS:

“I swear not to betray the Great Lord, to keep my secrets until the hour of my death.”

Oath 1 should remove any reason for the Forsaken to force the Aes Sedai, but I guess the "in service to the Great Lord" part gives them a lot of wiggle room.

Oath no. 2 seems pretty useless on a daily basis. But maybe that's why Jarna felt it was okay to kill the Dragon Reborn without permission.

Terez 10-13-2015 03:06 AM

The Black Ajah oaths were already revealed in a Q&A Maria did for Waygate.

sleepinghour 10-13-2015 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C Rutherford (Post 233453)
In the Adeleas entry it says she and Vandene went into retirement in 970 NE. Yet in the books it says they retired 70 years prior (about 930 NE).

Good catch. And it was specifically mentioned in TPoD because of Zarya Alkaese.
Quote:

Adeleas gave a satisfied nod. "This is not Garenia Rosoinde," she said. "I finally recognized her. Zarya Alkaese, a novice who ran away just before Vandene and I decided to retire and write our history of the world." [...]
Elayne was recalling something she had heard this woman say the first time she met her. The meaning had not registered then, but now it did. How would Zarya face novice white again after living as her own woman for seventy years?
—Path of Daggers chapter 28
I'll add it to the list of possible errors/inconsistencies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by C Rutherford (Post 233457)
Err....Cetalia Delarme? Didn't even need to do a search when I read it. Page 150. Was available just scrolling down the pages for preview.

It seems like everybody's getting different pages. I get 92, 139, then 156.

sleepinghour 10-13-2015 10:34 AM

As an aside, there seems to be one or two "easter eggs" in the book. You'll know it when you see it. This thread is clearly marked as a spoiler thread, and everyone is free to decide for themselves what to reveal or not. But I personally feel it would be a shame to spoil what is clearly meant to be a fun surprise, so I hope people won't until the book is out.

fionwe1987 10-13-2015 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepinghour (Post 233469)
As an aside, there seems to be one or two "easter eggs" in the book. You'll know it when you see it. This thread is clearly marked as a spoiler thread, and everyone is free to decide for themselves what to reveal or not. But I personally feel it would be a shame to spoil what is clearly meant to be a fun surprise, so I hope people won't until the book is out.

Interesting. Mind giving a clue on how we can see it, if we want to? Like a search term or something.

C Rutherford 10-13-2015 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fionwe1987 (Post 233460)
Whoa hold your horses. I didn't tell you what to think, anywhere. I only said that just because they retired 30 years ago doesn't mean they wouldn't be forgotten.

Sorry the horses are out and gamboling in a frisk manner. Seriously, though I'm a bit over sensitive to people dismissing something I find interesting as "doesn't change a lot in the books". That is fine as a subjective matter which I am sure you meant, but it came off as authoritarian in regard. Why do you or I or anyone else get to determine such as it stands for others? I'm sure you never meant that at all.

I let the horses run free though because that is what my horses do.

fionwe1987 10-13-2015 04:19 PM

According to the Companion, Bela "unaccountably survived", and in the first years of the 4th Age, gave birth to a colt and filly,then retired.

:mad: Not happy with this obvious bit of fan service, especially since it really badly goes against the symbolic link between Egwene and Bela.

GonzoTheGreat 10-13-2015 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fionwe1987 (Post 233473)
According to the Companion, Bela "unaccountably survived", and in the first years of the 4th Age, gave birth to a colt and filly,then retired.

:mad: Not happy with this obvious bit of fan service, especially since it really badly goes against the symbolic link between Egwene and Bela.

Maybe Egwene did the same.
Does make one wonder who was the father of the kids, of course.

Davian93 10-13-2015 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fionwe1987 (Post 233473)
According to the Companion, Bela "unaccountably survived", and in the first years of the 4th Age, gave birth to a colt and filly,then retired.

:mad: Not happy with this obvious bit of fan service, especially since it really badly goes against the symbolic link between Egwene and Bela.

Well, it does fit in with the quite popular theory that Bela is indeed the Creator's avatar in Randland set there to counter the efforts of Shaidar Haran...

So there's that. Bela was only in the Two Rivers to look after Rand during his youth to begin with.

Rand al'Fain 10-13-2015 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davian93 (Post 233476)
Well, it does fit in with the quite popular theory that Bela is indeed the Creator's avatar in Randland set there to counter the efforts of Shaidar Haran...

So there's that. Bela was only in the Two Rivers to look after Rand during his youth to begin with.

And then made sure various important persons to Rand (in one way or another) did what they needed to do. And ensured that Rand's sword ended the DO's avatar, Narg, before Narg could have his way with Rand.

C Rutherford 10-14-2015 11:15 AM

Some things that seem to be missing that I hope to be pleasantly surprised come three weeks.

1.I have yet to see anything that shows where those most recently vanished nations are on the map. Goaban seems to be the same entry that is in the books and I think Mosara and Irenvelle are not even listed (I have yet to get a entry listed for them, let alone read it).

From what I could read of Goaban it seems like it was lifted right from the glossary. I cannot remember if Irenvelle and Mosara were mentioned in the books or were added for the Big White Book. If the latter it goes back to certain entries solely being

2.The Blue Sitter killed in Elaida's coup is only mentioned as that. So she will continue to be nameless. Both Anlee and Eadgyth I think I've read and neither are mentioned as being that Sitter. In fact Anlee and Aeldra (Tamra's second Keeper) neither have any new tidbits iirc.

3.Some odd omissions of strength to some sisters. I did not make note of the actual sisters but did notice in perusing what I could and at the time thought it a bit odd we have the strengths of other sisters I thought were less prominent.

Terez 10-14-2015 06:03 PM

If it wasn't in RJ's notes, likely it won't be in the Encyclopedia.


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