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Spasmodean 11-20-2009 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FelixPax
We did not get a pov of their thoughts, either.

Do we need to? They are as aware of Tower Law as any other AS and the OTHER example we have with Adeleas and Vandene retaining their prisoner until they can be handed over to the Hall at least gives us something to go with.

FelixPax 11-20-2009 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by One Armed Gimp
<taps desk with ruler.>

Felix, class in now is session, please pay attention.

If you follow these steps, any and all proof can be found.
  1. View Main forums page.
  2. Click on Wheel of Time Theory Database forum link.
  3. Click on Robert Jordan and Brandon Sanderson Interview Database thread link.
  4. Click on the link for Taim.

You will note the second entry contains the RJ info Dav commented on.

For further reference on Taim and Rand's perceived age of him check eWoT. Once there:
  1. Click the Characters, Aliases & Nicknames link.
  2. Click on 'M'
  3. Click on the Mazrim Taim link.

Before saying a quote or resource doesn't exist, at least have the forethought to actually check and make sure.

Okay want a lesson, One Armed Gimp?

I did and do use the eWOT, and doesn't prove your point one bit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoC book, Rand pov
Rand studied Taim as the man and his escort crossed the courtyard. At least fifteen years older than himself; thirty-five, then, or a few years more at most. Little was known and less written of men who could channel--it was a subject most decent people avoided--but Rand had learned what he could. Relatively few men actually sought it out; that was one of Rand's problems. Since the Breaking, most men who channeled had the ability born in them, ready to spring out as they grew into manhood. Some managed to keep madness at bay for years before Aes Sedai found and gentled them; other were already hopelessly mad when found, at times less than a year after first touching saidin. Rand had clung to sanity for close to two years, so far. Yet in front of him he had a man who must have managed it for ten or fifteen. That alone was worth something.


Then we have Tuon's pov about male channelers and how dangerous they are:

Quote:

Originally Posted by tGS book, "A Halo of Blackness"
Men who could channel. Abominations best killed quickly. In Seanchan, there had been a very few who--in their lust for an unanticipated edge--had tried to train these Tsorov'ande Doon, these Black-Souled Tempests. The fools had fallen quickly, often destroyed by the very tools that they sought to control.

Tuon's view on male channeler is not alone, as the Ayyadd in Shara kill all known male channelers at age 20 --according to Noal-- and the Aiel in the Waste sent all there's to the Bright to fight and die at a young age, too.

The point being Taim is far older than Rand, and has been channeling for at least fifteen years in Rand's opinion. At that age, Taim should be gone mad or not been 100% sane, because of the Taint.


I see that Terez has switched to Google Doc recently, and RJ's quote is vague as is typical...so?

Quote:

RJ's blog 4 October 2005 "ONE MORE TIME"

Rand misjudges Taim’s age because when they meet, you might say Taim has been rode hard and put away wet. He has just finished a long and difficult flight to reach Caemlyn, the one place where he might find refuge instead of being hunted — along with other reasons — and that has a wearing effect on anyone. Now that he has recovered, he doesn’t look so old.
Taim's still too old, to have been channeling as long as he has, without being effected by the Tainted...unless the Dark One has grant him some type of privilege against the Taint. And then there's the slowing effect as well.

One Armed Gimp 11-20-2009 04:37 PM

Felix, you told Dav that there was no evidence to support what he said anywhere and specifically points out Terez's db. I was merely pointing out that you were wrong on that count and that you should make sure to do research before you post or respond to a post.

You to often make an assumption and run with it irregardless of available information. For example when you decided Olver = Gaidal Cain.

Your ideas lack any research finding after the creation of your theory. When points are made against your theory you either get upset or claim that others counter-points lack any foundation when many times the information they are presenting is a click or two away.

Theories are great, irregardless of the their factual bases, provided they are fully researched and logical. When you prop up a theory, be fully prepared to either defend it to the death, or realize you are wrong and move on.

Davian93 11-20-2009 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FelixPax
We did not get a pov of their thoughts, either.

How's that limb out there? They didn't think they were gonna die imminently. They were in the custody of an Aes Sedai and as Aes Sedai they knew the laws governing the treatment of prisoners. They knew Moiraine and Co could not summarily execute them and that they would have to face trial in the Tower.

Quote:

Taim's still too old, to have been channeling as long as he has, without being effected by the Tainted...unless the Dark One has grant him some type of privilege against the Taint. And then there's the slowing effect as well.
Male sparkers sometimes don't spark till their late 20s. Thus Taim, who doesn't really look 35 (PER RJ) is right in line with a guy that sparked late and has held the taint for several years (something that is very possible as not all go mad the same way and we know from the Breaking that it took decades for some.)

Quote:

The point being Taim is far older than Rand, and has been channeling for at least fifteen years in Rand's opinion. At that age, Taim should be gone mad or not been 100% sane, because of the Taint.
And RJ specifically refuted Rand's OPINION of Taim's age. How do you not get that? You freaking quoted it.

You were saying?

Davian93 11-20-2009 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tree Brother
Btw, (I think) one of the reasons the Breaking lasted so long, was that many male channelers spent time in Steddings. That prolonged the breaking, and may also have saved the world, since not all of the men went insane at the same time.

Yes, that was part of the reason it lasted 3 centuries but we have other evidence (such as the creation of the Eye) that shows that Male Aes Sedai were relatively stable of several years after the initial Taint. Only the surviving Companions went insane right away. The Eye wasn't formed for a good period after the initial Taint...it was an entire generational leap in the columns for Rand to go from the Sealing of the Bore to the Creation of the Eye.

Its just as possible for Taim to have sparked in his late 20s and look like a guy in his late 20s...particularly since RJ himself said that's how old he looked.

Trutino 11-20-2009 06:53 PM

Do we know if this thing from chapters 4-6 is something we'll say "we should have seen that there was something odd about [blank], though we couldn't have figured out how it would play out based on the available clues"? Or will we look back and there will have been enough clues to figure out how it would factor into whatever it factors into?

Terez 11-20-2009 07:05 PM

Based on the comparison to the Mistborn detail, I'd say the latter.

Belazamon 11-21-2009 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FelixPax (Post 76953)
If "Greed" was so overwhelming of a character trait of Valan Luca's why does he reject the 100 gold marks from Nynaeve, Elayne in Samara :

Because he actually fell in love with her.

Quote:

Originally Posted by One Armed Gimp (Post 76963)
I was going to rep you for that, but I guess I need to spread some around. I lost it at work reading that.

I'm not really sure why that's so hilarious, but I'm certainly glad you found it so. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FelixPax (Post 76977)
That can be interpreted as "origin of the species", not only where did your get those specific Boar-horses from.

Yeeeeahhhh. I'm sure that's how anyone would interpret Elayne's question. Clearly Luca is also Charles Darwin reborn. :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by FelixPax (Post 76977)
But has Luca ever seen a Seanchan raken or to'raken before? Who knows.... But Valan Luca claims to have visited Shara, and he does have a bear from the Aiel Waste, where very few Westlander's groups can go to. Even Elayne knows for a fact that one of Luca's bears' origin is from the Waste.

For the raken - what difference does it make? If he'd actually seen it, we have absolutely zero reason to assume that he would be the only person in the world who thinks it looks like a bird.

For the bear - the Waste is not Shara.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nameless (Post 76989)
Farstrider, along with other people who have actually been to Shara, describes "gigantic people with heads in their stomach." In other words, gorillas, seen from a distance. Luca, on the other hand, describes "gigantic people" and "beings with no heads." He is retelling other people's stories and getting them mixed up in the process.

Perfect. Absolutely perfect. Thanks. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FelixPax (Post 76997)
Taim's still too old, to have been channeling as long as he has, without being effected by the Tainted...unless the Dark One has grant him some type of privilege against the Taint. And then there's the slowing effect as well.

Where's your evidence that he hasn't been affected by the Taint? There's no standard amount of time or speed for either insanity or the body-rot to set in.

Charlz Guybon 11-22-2009 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nameless (Post 76989)
Farstrider, along with other people who have actually been to Shara, describes "gigantic people with heads in their stomach." In other words, gorillas, seen from a distance. Luca, on the other hand, describes "gigantic people" and "beings with no heads." He is retelling other people's stories and getting them mixed up in the process.

Gorillas look like gigantic people with heads in their stomach? :confused:

jdmusic27 11-23-2009 07:13 PM

I don't know if these have been mentioned before, but I am busily rereading the series (and just happened to be on book 4 when I read this post).

In TSR, one of the Rhuidean ter'angreal, the spear that stands on end by itself, is mentioned a few times in passing. I don't remember if it is mentioned later, but I guess I'll know soon enough.

Also, Luc killing Rands father Janduin in the blight. Could Luc/Slayer have been sent to kill Rands father to prevent a dark prophecy about the Dragon Reborn? Obviously too late, but maybe they didn't know?

Terez 11-23-2009 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdmusic27 (Post 77723)
In TSR, one of the Rhuidean ter'angreal, the spear that stands on end by itself, is mentioned a few times in passing. I don't remember if it is mentioned later, but I guess I'll know soon enough.

It isn't mentioned later, except maybe once in passing (doubt even that).

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdmusic
Also, Luc killing Rands father Janduin in the blight. Could Luc/Slayer have been sent to kill Rands father to prevent a dark prophecy about the Dragon Reborn? Obviously too late, but maybe they didn't know?

Possibly, but seems to me to be a strange coincidence. Also, not really a minor detail comparable to the one we were given.

jdmusic27 11-24-2009 09:24 PM

Okay, continuing my reading, and caught something else that has possibilities. Garyth Bryne, in TFOH, is talking about his first meeting with Siuan Sanche when she was still Amyrlin. He says that her and Elaida forced Morgase to recall troops from the Murandy border, troops that were sent there by Bryne to protect Andors aheep, or something like that. He didn't expect the Amyrlin Seat herself to get involved in something like this. Could this be a clue to the minor detail?

P. S. I haven't reread the whole series in a looonnng time, so this could have been brought up later and I forgot about it, but it caught my attention!

ShadowbaneX 11-25-2009 08:40 AM

It's an interesting idea, but it sorta misses the other part, in that it doesn't show up for "books and books." It's been mentioned once or twice.

One Armed Gimp 11-25-2009 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdmusic27 (Post 77943)
P. S. I haven't reread the whole series in a looonnng time, so this could have been brought up later and I forgot about it, but it caught my attention!

Keep reading.... (hint: Chapter 28)

Ger 11-25-2009 02:09 PM

hey, short time lurker :D first time poster

I almost fall for the hat theory, it initially fits with the earing comparison from mistborn, but another part of what BS said, about something that should have been caught at that moment, and should have been bigger than the Asmodean question doesnt fits, i mean, BS seems to imply that he thinks people should have been wondering about this detail from the start, and there is not much to ask about Mat hat.
Besides, i did a search of the word hat in all books, and most of Mat hat appearances are just to describe Matt but dont say much about the hat, nor give any clues about what the hat may mean, true, i think about half the word hat appearance in all books refer to mat hat, but mat is the only main char that uses a hat, and when another minor char uses a hat, RJ gave similar detailed descriptions of those hats.
So, even if it seems that the hat fits initially with the earring comparison, after that we dont have many hints about the hat supposed or hidden purpose, or how could the hat save the day.
If some minor detail will save the day, i guess its more probably something related to Rand...
I hope at least i made myself understandable, since english is not my first language...

Trutino 11-25-2009 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ger (Post 78070)
hey, short time lurker :D first time poster

I almost fall for the hat theory, it initially fits with the earing comparison from mistborn, but another part of what BS said, about something that should have been caught at that moment, and should have been bigger than the Asmodean question doesnt fits, i mean, BS seems to imply that he thinks people should have been wondering about this detail from the start, and there is not much to ask about Mat hat.
Besides, i did a search of the word hat in all books, and most of Mat hat appearances are just to describe Matt but dont say much about the hat, nor give any clues about what the hat may mean, true, i think about half the word hat appearance in all books refer to mat hat, but mat is the only main char that uses a hat, and when another minor char uses a hat, RJ gave similar detailed descriptions of those hats.
So, even if it seems that the hat fits initially with the earring comparison, after that we dont have many hints about the hat supposed or hidden purpose, or how could the hat save the day.
If some minor detail will save the day, i guess its more probably something related to Rand...
I hope at least i made myself understandable, since english is not my first language...

Hi Ger! Your English is far better than my Spanish or my French! I think the reason many of us have jumped on the "Mat's Hat" bandwagon (besides the fact it's hilarious) is that it was the only theory proposed after we were told we were on the wrong track that meets all the requirements.

I tend to think that the reason we should have been thinking about it was because Mat bought a hat from Lanfear. It never occurred to anyone that buying the piece of clothing that identifies you as a character from one of the Forsaken was strange. The fact that Perrin had a significant dream about the hat right before he bought it should have made us wonder why the hat was significant enough to show up in a wolf dream. At least that's one of the reasons why I am a Mat's Hatter at the moment.

nameless 11-25-2009 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlz Guybon (Post 77266)
Gorillas look like gigantic people with heads in their stomach? :confused:

Only if you squint and look sideways, but that's how most explorer talk works. For example, European explorers trying to describe a banana to their friends back home wrote about the strange fruit that was half apple and half cucumber. If you have trouble seeing the second head imagine drawing a smiley face on the gorilla's stomach: the nipples are the eyes and the belly button is the mouth. Ridiculous? Well, yes, but I think we can take it as an article of faith that there are no real stomach-headed giants out there, which means Farstrider was either using crazy explorer talk to describe an animal he'd never seen before or else the natives were playing a practical joke on him (which happened to a lot of real-life explorers as well). People-shaped implies primate, giant implies large primate, and gorillas come closer than anything else to fitting the bill.

I'm about halfway through my reread of books 4-6 and so far I don't have anything with the cache of Mat's hat, but I did find a few unresolved mysteries.

In The Shadow Rising Perrin asks Loial to keep an eye on Alanna for him, and he reports that she went off to do something mysterious on two occassions and even her Warder didn't know what she was up to for one of them. He also becomes suspicious of the Aes Sedai recruiting mission and asks Verin why she really came to the Two Rivers, but never gets an answer.

The Da'Shain Aeil are forced to abandon numerous wagons full of Power artifacts during their exodus, which is likely the source of the stash found in the Rahad. Did Cadsuane find the remains of one of these?

I'll post more if I find them.

Weird Harold 11-26-2009 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nameless (Post 78150)
The Da'Shain Aeil are forced to abandon numerous wagons full of Power artifacts .... Did Cadsuane find the remains of one of these?

Cadsuane's Hair Ornament Terangreal came from "an ancient wilder named Norla."
eWOT:\characters\hist\norla.html

Norla
An aged woman who lived in the Black Hills. She was a wilder.

Physical Description
She is old and toothless. (WH,Ch34)

Chronology
Shortly after achieving the shawl, Cadsuane has a humbling experience with Norla in the Black Hills. She earns her hair ornaments. (WH,Ch34, CoT,Ch23)

Matoyak 11-26-2009 03:41 AM

Heya Ger, welcome to TL...if you don't mind, please refrain from mentioning the exact Mistborn detail like that, as there are some people here who have yet to read the series, and that's a pretty decent spoiler there. Thankee Kindly! :D

GonzoTheGreat 11-26-2009 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trutino (Post 78145)
It never occurred to anyone that buying the piece of clothing that identifies you as a character from one of the Forsaken was strange.

I have to admit that it had occurred to me. But since I couldn't offer anything more than "maybe the wild rumours about his hat are actually true", I couldn't convince anyone of it. Definitely not myself, of course, but no one else either.

I didn't even include it in my Mat Is The Dragon Reborn theory, though in hindsight it would have been a nice addition.


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