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-   -   Another Gauntlet Thrown Down by Brandon (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2514)

Ger 11-26-2009 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matoyak (Post 78189)
Heya Ger, welcome to TL...if you don't mind, please refrain from mentioning the exact Mistborn detail like that, as there are some people here who have yet to read the series, and that's a pretty decent spoiler there. Thankee Kindly! :D

Sorry about that, i have been reading this thread and dragonmount thread and that had been spoilered several times, so i thought i couldnt spoil it even further, but maybe it was mainly in dragonmount forum...

Ger 11-26-2009 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trutino (Post 78145)

I tend to think that the reason we should have been thinking about it was because Mat bought a hat from Lanfear. It never occurred to anyone that buying the piece of clothing that identifies you as a character from one of the Forsaken was strange. The fact that Perrin had a significant dream about the hat right before he bought it should have made us wonder why the hat was significant enough to show up in a wolf dream. At least that's one of the reasons why I am a Mat's Hatter at the moment.

Well, the hat couldnt have been special before lanfear took it, while it was in kadere head, and in the few moments she had it, she couldnt have imbued it with anything too powerfull...
The biggest problem i have its that its hard to conciliate 2 phrases from BS, one that says that is a minor detail similar to a mistborn detail, and the other that says that we should be wondering from the start, and that seems to imply that the comunity should have given more importance to this than to asmodean killer...

jdmusic27 12-01-2009 07:23 PM

jumara
 
Ok, apparently I am going nuts trying to find out this "minor detail", especially since I just happened to be rereading book 4 when I found out about it. Chapter 23 of LoC is a Graendal pov speaking to Sammael. She mentions in passing that it would be dangerous to open a stasis box if it contained some of Aginors creations, the cafar or jumara. The jumara were mentioned in tEotW as Worms in the blight. However, Sammael says something about the jumara in the Blight being full grown, but "they'll never transform now". What is required to transform them? Maybe this will happen before the LB? And what do they transform into? Why does Sammael think that they will not transform anymore? Just a thought...

Belazamon 12-01-2009 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdmusic27 (Post 79204)
Ok, apparently I am going nuts trying to find out this "minor detail", especially since I just happened to be rereading book 4 when I found out about it. Chapter 23 of LoC is a Graendal pov speaking to Sammael. She mentions in passing that it would be dangerous to open a stasis box if it contained some of Aginors creations, the cafar or jumara. The jumara were mentioned in tEotW as Worms in the blight. However, Sammael says something about the jumara in the Blight being full grown, but "they'll never transform now". What is required to transform them? Maybe this will happen before the LB? And what do they transform into? Why does Sammael think that they will not transform anymore? Just a thought...

Well, jumara haven't come up again, but stasis boxes certainly have...

Trutino 12-02-2009 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdmusic27 (Post 79204)
Ok, apparently I am going nuts trying to find out this "minor detail", especially since I just happened to be rereading book 4 when I found out about it. Chapter 23 of LoC is a Graendal pov speaking to Sammael. She mentions in passing that it would be dangerous to open a stasis box if it contained some of Aginors creations, the cafar or jumara. The jumara were mentioned in tEotW as Worms in the blight. However, Sammael says something about the jumara in the Blight being full grown, but "they'll never transform now". What is required to transform them? Maybe this will happen before the LB? And what do they transform into? Why does Sammael think that they will not transform anymore? Just a thought...

As far as I can tell, stasis boxes weren't mentioned at least two of the books post-LoC. (CoT, tPoD) I don't think it's the thing we're looking for but it's a great catch, and though I have no evidence, I think it will come up when we return to the Blight.

Tercel 12-08-2009 04:20 PM

I'VE FOUND IT!

Okay, well, I possibly might have...

A character who is definitely going to make a big appearance in the remainder of the series, and one who appears heavily in books 4-6 is Slayer (Luc-Isam).

Quote:

From here:
# About 971 NE, while counselor to Queen Mordrellen of Andor, Gitara convinces Lord Luc that the outcome of Tarmon Gai'don depends upon him going to the Blight. (LoC,Ch16)
# In 972 NE Gitara tells Tigraine that disaster will befall the world unless she goes to the Three-fold Land, becomes a Maiden of the Spear, and does not return until the Maidens go to Tar Valon. (TSR,Ch34, LoC,Ch16)
Gitara Moroso had the fortelling, and she correctly sent Tigraine to the Aiel, causing her to eventually give birth to Rand on the slopes of Dragonmount... a rather absolutely essential and crucial thing!

But on par with this seems to be placed the fact that she sent Luc to the Blight, and that Tarmon Gai'don depends on that just as much as it does on the Dragon being reborn.

Since Slayer is clearly on the side of evil, we must ask ourselves "how exactly is he going to be required for the light to win the last battle?!" I haven't seen that question discussed much, if at all on forums.

So I suggest, the 'small detail' revealed in books 4-6 that is going to somehow feature big in the last two books is the fact that Luc is a key to the Light's victory.

Terez 12-08-2009 04:46 PM

It's not really a small detail, though, and it's not as if we haven't discussed it.

ckparrothead 12-08-2009 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tercel (Post 80293)
I'VE FOUND IT!

Okay, well, I possibly might have...

A character who is definitely going to make a big appearance in the remainder of the series, and one who appears heavily in books 4-6 is Slayer (Luc-Isam).


Gitara Moroso had the fortelling, and she correctly sent Tigraine to the Aiel, causing her to eventually give birth to Rand on the slopes of Dragonmount... a rather absolutely essential and crucial thing!

But on par with this seems to be placed the fact that she sent Luc to the Blight, and that Tarmon Gai'don depends on that just as much as it does on the Dragon being reborn.

Since Slayer is clearly on the side of evil, we must ask ourselves "how exactly is he going to be required for the light to win the last battle?!" I haven't seen that question discussed much, if at all on forums.

So I suggest, the 'small detail' revealed in books 4-6 that is going to somehow feature big in the last two books is the fact that Luc is a key to the Light's victory.

That certainly fits as something that developed or was revealed "in books 4 or 6" as Sanderson originally said.

The crux of the mystery, or what Brandon Sanderson says hasn't really been talked about but maybe should be...would then be why Gitara Moroso sent Luc to the Blight only to end up bonded with Isam in a way that made him into Slayer. And I agree that could end up playing an important role in upcoming events.

Then again I suppose some might argue that this has been discussed a lot as I'm sure there have been many discussions about Slayer, who he is, what he wants, why he's there, etc.

It's a good candidate but if this were the real answer then I think Sanderson would just be guilty of not knowing what's been discussed and what hasn't. I know there have been all kinds of discussions about Slayer and they've definitely brooched the subject of why Gitara sent him to the Blight.

I'm thinking that since Books 4 and 6 were so Slayer oriented, it's possible the detail has something to do with Slayer, but it's not necessarily something you've identified.

Tercel 12-08-2009 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terez (Post 80300)
It's not really a small detail, though, and it's not as if we haven't discussed it.

It's a small detail in the sense it's one sentence mentioned in passing. And it hasn't been discussed significantly... I don't recall it being discussed, it's not in the FAQ and a google search reveals very minimal discussion on the intertubes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ckparrothead
I'm thinking that since Books 4 and 6 were so Slayer oriented, it's possible the detail has something to do with Slayer, but it's not necessarily something you've identified.

The other interesting small detail to do with Slayer is his possible relationship with the Finn, as potentially indicated by his possible entry into the Tower of Ghenji and his inhuman scent. Although that doesn't make much sense - to the best of our knowledge the Finn are very anti the Dark One, and if Luc and Isam met in the blight, then why would the Finn be involved?

Terez 12-08-2009 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tercel (Post 80318)
It's a small detail in the sense it's one sentence mentioned in passing. And it hasn't been discussed significantly... I don't recall it being discussed, it's not in the FAQ and a google search reveals very minimal discussion on the intertubes.

This is the first thing that came up in a search on Yuku. And another.

Daekyras 12-08-2009 09:42 PM

The small detail that will turn out to be important in the future concerns Berelain. And Rhuarc.

Bank on it!!
;)

ckparrothead 12-09-2009 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daekyras (Post 80330)
The small detail that will turn out to be important in the future concerns Berelain. And Rhuarc.

Bank on it!!
;)

Where does that come from?

Terez 12-09-2009 12:47 AM

I think he's talking about how, some time after Rhuarc spanked Berelain, the Aiel all treated her with respect (which was mentioned either earlier in this thread or in the one on Dragonmount; can't remember).

It's easy enough to figure out - we have seen several examples of it in the books. If you accept that you have toh for something, and accept the consequences, then you gain ji (and therefore respect from other Aiel). The infraction goes away completely after it is atoned for.

Devlin1969 12-09-2009 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daekyras (Post 80330)
The small detail that will turn out to be important in the future concerns Berelain. And Rhuarc.

Bank on it!!
;)

I always found the interaction between Berelain and the Aiel to be odd, something hidden that we do not know yet.

And it is not just Rhuarc, there are examples in the books of this odd interaction between Berelain and other Aiel as well.

Terez 12-09-2009 01:32 PM

Already explained in previous post...

ckparrothead 12-09-2009 02:48 PM

I think you've probably got it right about why the Aiel treat her that way in general, however there still hasn't been an explanation as to why and how it came to pass that Rhuarc started thinking of her and treating her like a daughter.

I think that's been observed multiple times and I doubt it has anything to do with her accepting her punishment as I think Rhuarc was acting fatherly toward her even before that.

ckparrothead 12-09-2009 03:04 PM

Berelain is generally very mysterious...much like Laras from the kitchens. There's always more to her than meets the eye. That's why at first she seemed an obvious candidate to be a Forsaken in disguise, like Lanfear.

She's presented as very ambitious, using people to get what she wants, free with her sexuality and using it to get things that she wants...but she's also presented as very fair and to some extent virtuous.

She's cynical like Mat, there was the scene where she came from Rand's bedroom after a miasma hit and she was totally freaked out and Mat got her attention in the hall, she looked at him and considered him and walked off muttering "too much like me".

She can fight. If I remember right when she got into that little hair pulling matchup with Faile, she handled her like a kitten.

She's got this weird thing with Rhuarc. Again subject to my poor recollection, Perrin said something to the extent of Rhuarc smelled proud like a father every time he was near Berelain. I don't know if that observation happened before or after her hair pulling incident with Faile.

The other Aiel show her an air of respect. That may have something to do with accepting her punishment that one time but it may not.

Her standard is basically Hawkwing's standard, and aren't there some tidbits about her and the Seanchan and some kind of mutual respect, and the Firsts of Mayene claiming to be direct descendants of Hawkwing?

What I find strange is that with the way she's been painted throughout the books, she's got the look of a hero. She's painted almost like a Jack Bauer...except she's almost completely in the background of the main story lines. Yeah yeah, she flirts with Perrin some and then when Faile is out of the picture temporarily, flirts with him some more, etc. None of that seems very fitting for someone as interesting and thoroughly as she's been described.

I can only guess that she's got more role to play. Perhaps the way we're supposed to take her is to just imagine that Artur Hawkwing were alive today, in the form of a woman, but without the benefit of being ta'veren.

Tercel 12-09-2009 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terez (Post 80319)
This is the first thing that came up in a search on Yuku. And another.

Exactly... only a couple of threads, one with only five posts and the other less than 30... ie virtually not discussed at all.

Seriously, I doubt there's anything in the series that's been discussed never, ever, not at all, not even a little bit. Sanderson's point is that he's never seen it discussed, and that it's going to be important, and should have warranted some discussion at the time. Now I've been discussing the book in these forums for seven years on and off, and I've never seen Luc's role in winning the last battle discussed, it's clearly going to be a major feature in the final books and it does warrant discussion. As far as I can see, that fulfills all BS's criteria.

Terez 12-09-2009 07:57 PM

It doesn't fit the criteria unless you come up with something head-slapping, which you haven't - you've just put forth some vague 'Luc will be important' stuff. This is something we should be able to figure out, so until we do, it doesn't fit the criteria.

Also, there were several pages of search results on that topic. I only picked a couple near the top.

Daekyras 12-12-2009 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terez (Post 80339)
I think he's talking about how, some time after Rhuarc spanked Berelain, the Aiel all treated her with respect (which was mentioned either earlier in this thread or in the one on Dragonmount; can't remember).

It's easy enough to figure out - we have seen several examples of it in the books. If you accept that you have toh for something, and accept the consequences, then you gain ji (and therefore respect from other Aiel). The infraction goes away completely after it is atoned for.

Yeah, I'v mentioned this a few times. I always find it weird.

One thing Terez, where does it say that Rhuarc spanked Berelain? I know it probably does say that somewhere just can't remember reading it..

Not that I have a great memory!!!


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