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halo6819 12-23-2009 12:52 PM

i think it may be hard for the forsaken to read the pattern to find mat and perrin is that for the last few books is that they have been staying away from major population centers, especially mat. however if any of the forsaken need to know where the wonder boys are, they both have very large armies that are sure to have lots of DFs, no need for any fancy pattern reading to find them, honestly i just think that they are not trying hard enough, a couple dozen AM/AS travel to them and lay waste, hell, if any one of them showed up in person, i think they would be able to toast either of them. Mat does have his medallion as protection, but we know it has some serious flaws (lightning, pick up a sword with to OP and stab him) and perrin has a few AM/AS/WO's with him, but none of them are particularly strong or talented to my recollection...

so IMHO for some reason (selfishness?) the forsaken just dont want mat and perrin dead.

GonzoTheGreat 12-23-2009 01:05 PM

It may be that Rand, who is the strongest ta'veren by far, is confusing things with his constant hopping about.

It may be something like using the ripples in a pond to find a couple of small ducks that are paddling around somewhere. If you also have a swan that is constantly taking off, landing and flapping around vigorously, then finding the ducks won't be all that easy.

wolframbohr2 12-23-2009 01:40 PM

Or the pattern is weaving in such a way to keep the 2 boys from being found.

Also, once Rand proclaimed himself, the forsaken probably lost interest or put those two on the back burner. Finding them might be like trying to find that so so present after you get done playing with the super awsome one.

padfoot89 12-23-2009 02:50 PM

Graendal said in KoD that it was difficult to find them because the Pattern was full of flux or something similar. Since they are trying to destabilize the Pattern, it must be very hard. I'd imagine it is much easier to find a thread when the Pattern is stable than when it is behaving chaotically. It's ironic that one of the DO's tactics is actually protecting the ta'verens.

FelixPax 12-24-2009 01:38 AM

The game of Sha'rah isn't Occam's Razor
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonzi77 (Post 81793)
Felix, you would do great in Congress, because you filibuster an argument better than anyone I have ever seen.

Are you familiar with the concept of Occam's Razor? Basically, in any given situation, the simplest explanation is the best.

You should of explained it to Ishamael-Moridin, as he tends to favor a very long game of Sha'rah. Any decent use of Occam's Razor would of shortened the series, instead of lengthening the pages count of the series quite a bit--to a successful authors' long-term $$$ advantage. Sha'rah is anti-Occam!! ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Path of Daggers, Prologue - Moridin pov
From time to time he idly stroked one of the two mindtraps that hung on plain silken cords around his neck. At his touch, the blood-red crystal of the cour’souvra pulsed, swirls moving in endless depths like the beating of a heart. His real attention was on the game laid out before him on the table, thirty-three red pieces and thirty-three green arrayed across a playing surface of thirteen squares by thirteen. A re-creation of the early stages of a famous game. The most important piece, the Fisher, black-and-white like the playing surface, still waited in its starting place on the central square. A complex game, sha’rah, ancient long before the War of Power. Sha’rah, tcheran, and no’ri, the game now called simply “stones,” each had adherents who claimed it encompassed all the subtleties of life, but Moridin had always favored sha’rah. Only nine people living even remembered the game. He had been a master of it. Much more complex than tcheran or no’ri. The first object was capture of the Fisher. Only then did the game truly begin.

...(skipped a paragraph)

The Fisher held his attention, baiting him. Several pieces had varying moves, but only the Fisher’s attributes altered according to where it stood; on a white square, weak in attack yet agile and far-ranging in escape; on black, strong in attack but slow and vulnerable. When masters played, the Fisher changed sides many times before the end. The green-and-red goal-row that surrounded the playing surface could be threatened by any piece, but only the Fisher could move onto it. Not that he was safe, even there; the Fisher was never safe. When the Fisher was yours, you tried to move him to a square of your color behind your opponent’s end of the board. That was victory, the easiest way, but not the only one. When your opponent held the Fisher, you attempted to leave him no choice for the Fisher but to move onto your color. Anywhere at all along the goal-row would do; holding the Fisher could be more dangerous than not. Of course, there was a third path to victory in sha’rah, if you took it before letting yourself be trapped. The game always degenerated in a bloody melee, then, victory coming only with complete annihilation of your enemy. He had tried that, once, in desperation, but the attempt had failed. Painfully.

Slowly he set the Fisher back on the board. Slowly his fingers uncurled from around the cour’souvra. There was no need for destruction. Yet. Icy calm replaced rage in the blink of an eye. Blood and wine dripped from his gashed hand, unnoticed. Perhaps the Fisher did come from some dim remnant of a memory of Rand al’Thor, the shadow of a shadow. It did not matter. He realized he was laughing, and made no effort to stop. On the board, the Fisher stood waiting, but in the greater game, al’Thor moved already to his wishes. And soon, now . . . It was very hard to lose a game when you played both sides of the board. Moridin laughed so hard that tears rolled down his face, but he was not aware of them.

We read the 'green text' move of Ishamael's, when he forced Rand to use the True Power to free himself of the male a'dam. There was no other move, for Rand to take (tGS, Ch.22 "The Last That Could Be Done").



Ishamael could have followed Graendal's Occam Razor class of advice, below:

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Gathering Storm, Prologue - Graendal pov - pg. 35
Was she the only one who saw that al'Thor himself was the real threat? Why not just kill him and be done with it?

But there is that small bond, two-way flowing mechanism between Ishamael and Rand, which Graendal totally misses....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonzi77 (Post 81793)
So what is more likely? That there's somehow a second woman that was spurned by Lews Therin/Rand who appears out of nowhere all of the sudden? Or that whatever link you think Lanfear put on Mat either broke when she went through the doorframe or (more likely) never existed in the first place?

Cyndane exists to create 'uncertainty' and 'a cover' for manipulating the remaining Chosen, that is one of Ishamael's goals for her, I think.

Lanfear may or may not have 'marked' Mat, at Falme or within Tar Valon during their meeting before Siuan, Leane got close.

However, Noal does know that Mat is (#1) ta'veren, (#2) that he is one person directly written about in the 'Prophecies of the Dragon'(CoT,Ch28), and (#3) he knows of Mat's separate visits to both the Aelfinn, Eelfinn. Noal has obvious signs of past compulsion upon himself, by Ishamael. So why hasn't Cyndane found Noal yet? We know Cyndane has been carrying Ishamael's orders around, according to Graendal (tGS, Prologue - pg.36):

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Gathering Storm, Prologue - Graendal pov
Moridin was gathering the Great Lord's forces for the Last Battle, and his war preparations left him very little time for the south--though his two minions, Cyndane and Moghedien, occassionally showed their faces there. They spent their time rallying the Darkfriends and occassionally trying to follow Moridin's orders that the two ta'veren--Perrin Aybara and Matrim Cauthon--be killed

Does Cyndane lack the ability to Dreamwalk, as Lanfear was able to? Why hasn't Cyndane found Ishamael's pawn of a tool, Noal, yet?

A ripped out of the Hero of the Horn, Birgitte, was able to easily find Nynaeve in the 'Dream' world, using a sleepweaver ter'angreal twisted ring. So why hasn't Cyndane been able to do the very same thing with Noal?

Lanfear is a master of the 'Dream' world, surely finding one known Darkfriend of Ishamael's, is not that hard? Or just accept that Cyndane is not Lanfear....


Will Mat snatches Lanfear out of the Eelfinn's realm, along side of Moiraine? In 'Towers of Midnight' book? Would that fulfill part of the 'Prophecies of the Dragon'? Snatching both 'The Daughter of Nine Moons' and 'Lanfear' out of the sky?

After all, Hopper called Lanfear, "Moonhunter" to Perrin, and in the Old Tongue Lanfear means "Daughter of the Night". Sky metaphors are each part of Lanfear and Tuon's identities.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonzi77 (Post 81793)
As for the finding Ta'veren trick, Lanfear herself admitted it wasn't easy for her. She didn't "literally stink" because I doubt she was actually smelling badly while trying to do it. And besides, that argument is completely meaningless because Moridin CAN use that trick and hasn't used it to kill Mat and Perrin, so it's wrong to conclude that someone would just because they could.

Ishamael has no known 'marking' upon Mat nor Perrin. Besides both of their 'Dreams' are blocked, one by a ter'angreal and the other by guardian wolves. The ta'veren finding tricking is most likely a lie, by Ishamael to fool the other Chosen. He's slowly killing off disloyal Chosen in the process, indirectly--Semirhage--to further his own goals.

Ishamael plays both sides of the board, remember that. And Lanfear knew this from the very beginning.

nameless 12-27-2009 02:10 AM

This post makes my brain hurt. Of course Cyndane is Lanfear. Winter's Heart make that abundantly clear.

From "With the Choedan Kal":

"'If you are truly one of the Chosen, I will serve you,' the bearded man in front of Cyndane said doubtfully, but she did not hear what else he had to say.
She coud feel it. That much of saidar being drawn to one spot was a beacon that any woman in the world who could channel would feel and locate. So he had found a woman to use the other access key. She would have faced the Great Lord- faced the Creator!- with him. She would have shared the power with him, let him rule the world at her side. And he had spurned her love, spurned her!"

There is only one person in the whole world who offered to help Rand use the Choedan Kal to take on the Dark One and supplant the Creator: Lanfear. If Cyndane remembers doing this, then she must have Lanfear's memories.

You ask why she didn't mark Mat as Lanfear either in the Waste or Tar Valon and use that mark as Cyndane to track him down and kill him. The answer is simple: the orders to kill Mat didn't come until long after she and Mat parted company. Just because she had the opportunity to put a Finder on him doesn't mean she actually did so.

You ask why Cyndane can't find Noal's dreams the way Birgitte found Nynaeve, demonstrating that you have a fairly poor understanding of dreamwalking in general. Finding someone's dreams and finding someone in the World of Dreams are two completely different skills, and the former is far more difficult. Noal has never been to the World of Dreams. Furthermore, even if she could find his dreams easily there's no reason to believe she'd know there was any cause to do so. The plans Ishamael/Moridin carried out through Compulsion were secret plans, and he's not likely to share them with her. Noal and Cyndane are both just tools to him and he won't tell them about each other any more than he'd tell his hammer about the task his screwdriver had been assigned to.

Yuri33 12-27-2009 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nameless
This post makes my brain hurt.

Welcome to the club--you should see his earlier posts on Valan Luca being a major factor in the last two books.

Cyndane is one of the Forsaken--the mere fact that she sits in on their meetings is enough evidence. All of the other Forsaken are accounted for. Therefore, the only person Cyndane could be is Lanfear.

wolframbohr2 12-27-2009 05:51 AM

Can someone who is mindtrapped enter TAR? (Entering TAR by dreaming, not in the fleash with a gateway) Follow my logic here a minut, we know from Perrin that when he went too deep into TAR, (the wolf dream) he got cold (like his soul was not there) The same thing is said of the Souless, I now they are not in TAR, but cold cause their soul is not there.

If this is the case, and the soul or essence of it is in the mindtrapp can they enter TAR? Can they enter TAR if the holder of the mindtrap gives permission?

This could explain why Cyndane/Lanfear is not seen there or finding or doing what not in TAR by fdindind so and so.

This is meaningless if they can enter TAR by dreaming, I dont remeber if we see them there by dreaming or in the flesh. I never gave it much thought till now.

Terez 12-27-2009 06:30 AM

The Forsaken meetings are in Tel'aran'rhiod. Moghedien and Cyndane were present in 'At the Gardens' (Knife of Dreams ch. 3).

wolframbohr2 12-27-2009 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terez (Post 82061)
The Forsaken meetings are in Tel'aran'rhiod. Moghedien and Cyndane were present in 'At the Gardens' (Knife of Dreams ch. 3).


But are they there by dreaming or in the flesh? Or don't we know for sure?

Terez 12-27-2009 06:47 AM

Does it matter? If Cyndane can go there in the flesh, then it would not explain why she isn't seen there.

wolframbohr2 12-27-2009 06:57 AM

It would if you need your soul in your body to enter TAR by dreaming. If the soul is in a mindtrap, then she could not enter there by dreaming, just in the fleash.

I probably did not do a good job with my Perrin example. It was to show the soul is effected some how or needed for TAR.

FelixPax 12-29-2009 09:52 AM

Cyndane is an enigma
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nameless (Post 82036)
This post makes my brain hurt. Of course Cyndane is Lanfear. Winter's Heart make that abundantly clear.

Who does Cyndane serve again? Who did Lanfear challenge, with Perrin watching in secret via a Wolf Dream??

Answers to both questions, is Ishamael.

Ishamael knew that Lanfear was chafing at her bonds, and was all but ready to knock off himself.

Your argument that Cyndane = Lanfear, relies on a few broken reeds in Winter's Heart and that's it. All of those reeds, could of easily been implanted, compelled and/or suggested by Ishamael into his new mindtrapped victim, Cyndane.


For example, many Chosen have called the Dragon Reborn, L.T.T as Lanfear and Cyndane have in the books; including Mesaana, Sammael, Be'lal, Demandred, Graendal.


If Cyndane truly is Lanfear, explain away this quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dragon Reborn – Chapter 4 “Shadows Sleeping” – Perrin pov with Lanfear
Darkness enfolded him, but (Lanfear) her voice followed, whispering. “The night is always there, and dreams come to all men. Especially you, my wildling. And I will always be in your dreams.”


Why is Perrin alive, if Cyndane = Lanfear as some people believe?


Let alone Aviendha and Egwene? Each of these women were on Lanfear's hit list, in Cairhien, so why are they too alive? If Cyndane is truly, Lanfear?


Cyndane is not Lanfear, is a better argument overall.


So who might Cyndane be, possibly?
(Pure Speculation here, based on multiple vague text clues, timing) At best, Cyndane's a former Sharan noble from a southern port city. Who failed to keep news of the coming of the Dragon Reborn out of one of southern port towns peasant population.

One Armed Gimp 12-29-2009 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FelixPax (Post 82242)
So who might Cyndane be, possibly?
(Pure Speculation here, based on multiple vague text clues, timing) At best, Cyndane's a former Sharan noble from a southern port city. Who failed to keep news of the coming of the Dragon Reborn out of one of southern port towns peasant population.

So a Sharan that just happened to find a way to be held by the 'finns and feel scorned by Rand/LTT or that Moridin decides to implant these thoughts into her head and RJ writes them to deliberately mislead us.

Yup, much better and more sound of an argument than Cyndane = Lanfear.

Bonzi77 12-29-2009 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FelixPax (Post 82242)
Who does Cyndane serve again? Who did Lanfear challenge, with Perrin watching in secret via a Wolf Dream??

Answers to both questions, is Ishamael.

Ishamael knew that Lanfear was chafing at her bonds, and was all but ready to knock off himself.

Your argument that Cyndane = Lanfear, relies on a few broken reeds in Winter's Heart and that's it. All of those reeds, could of easily been implanted, compelled and/or suggested by Ishamael into his new mindtrapped victim, Cyndane.


For example, many Chosen have called the Dragon Reborn, L.T.T as Lanfear and Cyndane have in the books; including Mesaana, Sammael, Be'lal, Demandred, Graendal.


If Cyndane truly is Lanfear, explain away this quote:




Why is Perrin alive, if Cyndane = Lanfear as some people believe?


Let alone Aviendha and Egwene? Each of these women were on Lanfear's hit list, in Cairhien, so why are they too alive? If Cyndane is truly, Lanfear?


Cyndane is not Lanfear, is a better argument overall.


So who might Cyndane be, possibly?
(Pure Speculation here, based on multiple vague text clues, timing) At best, Cyndane's a former Sharan noble from a southern port city. Who failed to keep news of the coming of the Dragon Reborn out of one of southern port towns peasant population.

Wow, no offense, but that's a bunch of nonsense. Using that logic I could decide that Demandred was not actually Demandred. Sure, he thinks he's Demandred, but Ishamael could have put those thoughts there. You've come up with one preposterous theory (Moridin planting memories) to support another preposterous theory (Cyndane is not Lanfear). It's a complete house of cards.

One Armed Gimp 12-29-2009 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonzi77 (Post 82245)
It's a complete house of cards.

Which is very solid provided you don't blow on it.

FelixPax 12-29-2009 11:19 PM

Cyndane memories are flawed, imperfect-- Aviendha's silver necklace, a missing detail
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonzi77 (Post 82245)
You've come up with one preposterous theory (Moridin planting memories) to support another preposterous theory (Cyndane is not Lanfear).

Ishamael has multiple times implanted commands to individuals within the story, those are facts. Noal Charin (also known as Jain Farstrider, Jain Charin), Jaichim Carridin (as Bors) among others.

Recall the scene when Bors sees Mat in Ebou Dar, and his appearance suddenly triggers planted memories which were commanded by Ishamael during the darkfriend social hour in 'The Great Hunt, Prologue'.


Even Lanfear gave commands and created memories for Hadnan Kadere to watch and observe the Dragon Reborn and Natael (TFoH,Ch29 - Hadnan Kadere pov) via the Dream World. Ishamael was not alone in implanting commands, that is a fact. There are other examples, too.



An mental omission: Cyndane lacks any known hatred of Aviendha, Min, Elayne or Egwene-all of whom Lanfear knew of. Lanfear almost killed Egwene and Aviendha in Cairhien. Lanfear had seen Min, Elayne and Aviendha within the Dragon Reborn's own dreams. Yet Cyndane lacks any known knowledge of these three women, let alone jealous driven hatred towards them. Cyndane only displays hatred towards the Dragon Reborn, bizarrely. It just does not fit.


----------------------------------------------

To: Bonzi77

As I have mentioned before numerous times, Cyndane origin is an "enigma". There is no hard evidence, what her native background is. Only a slim vague wording from the series. It just does not fits anywhere we know of. Yet, there is enough scenes to show that Cyndane's behavior, knowledge, and attitudes do not fit Lanfear's either.


You can mock my pure speculation that Cyndane is from a southern Shara port city, and has a noble's background from there. At least this seems to fit where Lanfear's likely white room palace could of been in the awaking world, too. However, this speculation is independent of the argument that Cyndane is not Lanfear. One is an argument, the other purely a guess of speculation based on very small descriptive clues. Some individuals seem to lack to notice the distinction here.


For those who believe Cyndane = Lanfear , the numerous book Glossaries do not give any aid to this belief, only uncertainty to what Cyndane's real background is:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winter's Heart - Glossary
Forsaken, the:
The name given to thirteen powerful Aes Sedai, men and women both, who went over to the Shadow during the Age of Legends and were trapped in the sealing of the Bore into the Dark One’s prison. While it has long been believed that they alone abandoned the Light during the War of the Shadow, in fact others did as well; these thirteen were only the highest ranking among them. The Forsaken (who call themselves the Chosen) are somewhat reduced in number since their awakening in the present day. The known survivors are Demandred, Semirhage, Graendal, Mesaana, Moghedien, and two who were reincarnated in new bodies and given new names, Osan’gar and Aran’gar. Recently, a man calling himself Moridin has appeared, and may be yet another of the dead Forsaken brought back from the grave by the Dark One. The same possibility may exist regarding the woman calling herself Cyndane, but since Aran’gar was a man brought back as a woman, speculation as to the identities of Moridin and Cyndane may prove futile until more is learned.


----------------------------------------


No one on this forum's board has put out an argument why, Cyndane remembers visiting both the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn?


Quote:

Originally Posted by Winter's Heart, Chapter 35 - Cyndane point of view
She was stronger than Cyndane had been before the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn held her!

We as readers know Lanfear was last seen entering the realm of Eelfinn only, with Moiraine at the Cairhien docks through a twisted redstone doorway which melted. Cyndane's very own memories are in error here.



A partial explanation to account for Cyndane's error:

The Shadow's forces very likely never even knew about a separate twisted door way that only goes to the Eelfinn's realm. Even Ishamael probably ignorant here. Why? Because Rhuidean has been closed to everyone, except for testing of Wise Ones (twice) and Clan Chiefs (once) for roughly 2,700-3,000 thousand years. Besides no Dreamers, Dreamwalkers or individuals in the 3rd Constant were able enter Rhuidean either.


There is no proof anywhere in the story, any of the Chosen knew about the separate door to the Eelfinn's ream, which Mat entered in Rhuidean.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Shadow Rising – Chapter 23 – “Beyond the Stone” – Egwene pov
“There are some places one cannot enter in Tel’aran’rhiod,” Seana said. “Rhuidean. Ogier stedding. A few others. What happens there is shielded from a dreamwalker’s eyes.”

If an experienced Aiel Dreamwalker says Rhuidean is a place one cannot to enter in the Tel'aran'rhiod, that is very strong evidence in my view.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Shadow Rising - Chapter 23 – “Beyond the Stone” – Egwene pov
“It is not permitted,” Melaine said firmly, addressing her sisters. She pulled her shawl up to cover her head. “The law is clear. No woman may go to Rhuidean more than twice, no man more than once, and none at all save they have the blood of Aiel.”


Even Asmodean was not able to enter Rhuidean by use of the Dream (TSR,Ch39 - Nynaeve pov). Of course, Asmodean is dead now too.


------------------------------------------------


The small detail missed, Brandon said the fan forums missed is most likely Lanfear marking Aviendha's silver necklace of Kandori snowflakes with a bond weave, which works as long as the two are together.

Lanfear was a highly jealous women, indeed.

lady itchy woo 12-30-2009 12:14 AM

wait, i thought everyone knew cyndane was ileyna?

ha ha, no, i know she's lanfear.

we don't know if cyndane hates the 3 ladies of rand because it really hasn't come up in her POVs. that, and she's rather one tracked in her thinking which is revenge. she's like the kill bill version of lanfear. i'm sure if she sees one of the three it will be accompanied by the high pitched theme we got every time the bride saw red...

nameless 12-30-2009 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FelixPax (Post 82280)
Ishamael has multiple times implanted commands to individuals within the story, those are facts. Noal Charin (also known as Jain Farstrider, Jain Charin), Jaichim Carridin (as Bors) among others.

Recall the scene when Bors sees Mat in Ebou Dar, and his appearance suddenly triggers planted memories which were commanded by Ishamael during the darkfriend social hour in 'The Great Hunt, Prologue'.


Even Lanfear gave commands and created memories for Hadnan Kadere to watch and observe the Dragon Reborn and Natael (TFoH,Ch29 - Hadnan Kadere pov) via the Dream World. Ishamael was not alone in implanting commands, that is a fact. There are other examples, too.



An mental omission: Cyndane lacks any known hatred of Aviendha, Min, Elayne or Egwene-all of whom Lanfear knew of. Lanfear almost killed Egwene and Aviendha in Cairhien. Lanfear had seen Min, Elayne and Aviendha within the Dragon Reborn's own dreams. Yet Cyndane lacks any known knowledge of these three women, let alone jealous driven hatred towards them. Cyndane only displays hatred towards the Dragon Reborn, bizarrely. It just does not fit.


----------------------------------------------

To: Bonzi77

As I have mentioned before numerous times, Cyndane origin is an "enigma". There is no hard evidence, what her native background is. Only a slim vague wording from the series. It just does not fits anywhere we know of. Yet, there is enough scenes to show that Cyndane's behavior, knowledge, and attitudes do not fit Lanfear's either.


You can mock my pure speculation that Cyndane is from a southern Shara port city, and has a noble's background from there. At least this seems to fit where Lanfear's likely white room palace could of been in the awaking world, too. However, this speculation is independent of the argument that Cyndane is not Lanfear. One is an argument, the other purely a guess of speculation based on very small descriptive clues. Some individuals seem to lack to notice the distinction here.


For those who believe Cyndane = Lanfear , the numerous book Glossaries do not give any aid to this belief, only uncertainty to what Cyndane's real background is:




----------------------------------------


No one on this forum's board has put out an argument why, Cyndane remembers visiting both the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn?




We as readers know Lanfear was last seen entering the realm of Eelfinn only, with Moiraine at the Cairhien docks through a twisted redstone doorway which melted. Cyndane's very own memories are in error here.


How could Ishamael/Moridin have known what memories to implant if Lanfear hadn't come back and told him? Plotting to overthrow the Dark One, along with other things Cyndane remembers at the Cleansing, are hardly likely to come up during casual conversation. Did he go to Finnland to interrogate her and then come back and leave her there? If she's still trapped her memories are trapped with her. As for the so-called omissions, just because a character doesn't think a specific thought during their brief POV scenes does not mean they've never thought it. For all you know Cyndane could hate Aviendha every bit as much as Lanfear hated Ilyena and it's just never come up because they've never been in the same scene.

The fact that Cyndane has been to both Aefinn and Eelfinn seems a strange one to get caught up on. If the Finnlands both have commerce with the prime world they could just as easily have commerce with each other. I suspect we'll learn a little bit more about their realities in ToM but in the mean time there's no reason to assume a character is making a mistake every time she mentions something that occurred offscreen.

GonzoTheGreat 12-30-2009 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nameless (Post 82296)
If the Finnlands both have commerce with the prime world they could just as easily have commerce with each other.

Actually, based on what Birgitte says to Perrin in TSR, it is not a matter of "just as easily".
Quote:

Originally Posted by TSR, Chapter 28, To the Tower of Ghenjei
Her eyes widened, and she glanced at Hopper, who still lay stretched out on the grass ignoring her and watching Perrin. "You can talk to wolves? Now that is a thing long lost in legend. So that is how you are here. I should have known. The tower? It is a doorway, archer, to the realms of the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn." She said the names as if he should recognize them. When he looked at her blankly, she said, "Did you ever play the game called Snakes and Foxes?"

Assuming that she knows what she is talking about, the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn definitely have contact with each other; they may very well live together.


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