Theoryland of the Wheel of Time Forums

Theoryland of the Wheel of Time Forums (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/index.php)
-   Book 12: The Gathering Storm (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=37)
-   -   Another Gauntlet Thrown Down by Brandon (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2514)

Terez 03-15-2010 12:48 PM

That has been discussed to hell and back, so there's no way that's what Brandon is talking about.

Daekyras 03-15-2010 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terez (Post 89676)
That has been discussed to hell and back, so there's no way that's what Brandon is talking about.

Agrees.

The fact is that BS said that he is surprised it hasn't been mentioned more. The kind of thing people skim over as unimportant or make assumptions about....Berelain...Rhuarc...:D

Scion9 03-25-2010 12:30 AM

First post here. I've been turning this one over in my head since I heard about and have been doing a re-read of the series after finishing tGS. Almost finished LoC now and came across a passage I found interesting in the Fain PoV at the end of Chapter 29: Letters...

Quote:

It was hard for him to concentrate on one thing for long anyway. Except Rand al'Thor, of course. He could feel al'Thor, could point to him, this close. Al'Thor pulled at him, pulled till it hurt. There was a difference
lately, a difference that had come suddenly, almost as if someone else had suddenly taken a partial possession of al'Thor, and in doing so pushed away a part of Fain's own possession. No matter. Al'Thor belonged to him.
I'm not sure it meets the criteria of being in every book though. Fain does get brought up a lot by the other characters though (as do many other events in superfluously annoying recaps) even when he doesn't make a strong presence in a particular book(LoC itself being an example; Rand thinks and talks about Fain more than the man actually appears in the rest of the book).

Regardless, what ramifications does this 'pushing away' of Fain's own possession have given a post-Veins of Gold Rand?

Terez 03-25-2010 12:41 AM

We haven't had any Fain points of view since then. I'm not sure that there are any implications at all, really. It doesn't seem to have lessened Fain's ability to sense Rand, when Alanna bonded him; it just makes Fain feel like someone else is encroaching upon his territory. I imagine that feeling heightened quite a bit when the girls bonded Rand, but we've only seen Fain once since then (in Far Madding), and no POV.

I don't think that what happened in 'Veins of Gold' is really comparable, unless you are talking about the bonding, rather than the last chapter of TGS.

ckparrothead 03-25-2010 03:04 PM

Any plausible theories meet scrutiny on this one yet?

GonzoTheGreat 03-25-2010 06:01 PM

The stupid soup. But how much scrutiny that can meet isn't quite clear, I think. I still need to properly research that.

Terez 03-25-2010 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ckparrothead (Post 91646)
Any plausible theories meet scrutiny on this one yet?

I think Mat's raven tattoos are a decent theory. Problem is that it's discussed on the WoT FAQ, which Brandon is ostensibly familiar with. I can still see it being viable simply because 99% of Mat discussions, as to what his future will be, don't even touch on the idea of him becoming property. Also, some might say it doesn't seem like the sort of thing that would 'save the day'. That might have been a bit of hyperbole on Brandon's part, but also, the detail is scheduled to come into play in the next book, not the final one. That's something to consider. It has the potential to be a catalyst for the Seanchan paradigm shift, which is pretty day-saving in my opinion, anyway.

I totally believe that will happen, but as to whether or not it's the 'detail'...maybe, maybe not.

Neilbert 04-01-2010 03:10 AM

Ravens mark something as being property of the Empress. Mat doesn't need raven tatoos, he already has a possession with ravens on it, his spear. Mat has claimed property of the Empress (may she live forever) as his own. Tuon offered him a way out by attempting to buy the spear, but Mat refused. This could potentially have huge reprocussions within Seanchan.

Terez 04-01-2010 04:29 AM

I want some of what you have been smoking. Can't you mail it to me?

ckparrothead 04-01-2010 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terez (Post 91698)
I think Mat's raven tattoos are a decent theory. Problem is that it's discussed on the WoT FAQ, which Brandon is ostensibly familiar with. I can still see it being viable simply because 99% of Mat discussions, as to what his future will be, don't even touch on the idea of him becoming property. Also, some might say it doesn't seem like the sort of thing that would 'save the day'. That might have been a bit of hyperbole on Brandon's part, but also, the detail is scheduled to come into play in the next book, not the final one. That's something to consider. It has the potential to be a catalyst for the Seanchan paradigm shift, which is pretty day-saving in my opinion, anyway.

I totally believe that will happen, but as to whether or not it's the 'detail'...maybe, maybe not.

Interesting. Thanks.

Luckers 05-03-2010 12:38 AM

I don't know if anyone is interested but I just finished up a compilations of suggested BUT theories over on Dragonmount. It can be found here: http://forums.dragonmount.com/index....c,57075.0.html

nameless 05-03-2010 03:42 AM

That bit asking how Trollocs managed to get all the way to Imre Stand in the Waste is one I hadn't seen before... can Shadowspawn use Portal Stones?

Terez 05-03-2010 04:18 AM

There are all sorts of stedding in the Dragonwall. They all ended up there because the Spine is basically vast stretches of land squeezed up into one place.

GonzoTheGreat 05-03-2010 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nameless (Post 96638)
That bit asking how Trollocs managed to get all the way to Imre Stand in the Waste is one I hadn't seen before... can Shadowspawn use Portal Stones?

The answer to that question is rather obvious: perhaps. :p

It has led me to wonder why the Forsaken didn't get a team of BA members to operate a Portal Stone for ferrying Trollocs over from the Waste to other destinations. It is likely that one AS wouldn't be strong enough, but a circle of five or so should be able to handle this, and if not, then more could be added easily.

NaeffOfDreams 05-03-2010 04:43 PM

Can Mat become property of the Empress now that they're married? I was under the impression that it was one or the other based on Egeanin and Domon's interactions in ACoS onwards.

GonzoTheGreat 05-04-2010 04:25 AM

But their example may not be particularly helpful, since we're told time and time again that the rules for the imperial family are different.
Whether or not they are different in this specific case is unknown, of course.

Terez 05-04-2010 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat (Post 96825)
But their example may not be particularly helpful, since we're told time and time again that the rules for the imperial family are different.
Whether or not they are different in this specific case is unknown, of course.

Actually, it's not. We know from The Shadow Rising that the mark of the raven is forever, no matter how it is obtained, and even if it was one of the Blood. Tuon would not have married him if he was already marked, but she has already married him, so it's too late now.

ckparrothead 05-04-2010 02:55 PM

Anyone have the quote handy of what exactly Mat asked the Foxes, what he said to them that resulted in his being sent back to the real world hanging from a tree with a spear, a medallion and some war memories?

ShadowbaneX 05-04-2010 03:08 PM

well, my books are about 10 feet away, so, yeah, I suppose they're handy.

Hey, now they much closer at hand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Shadow Rising - chapter 24: Rhuidean
Dead silence. He could hear himself breathing, hear the blood throbbing in his ears. "I have no intention of marrying. And I have no intention of dying, either, whether I am supposed to live again or not. I walk around with holes in my memory, holes in my life, and you stare at me like idiots. If I had my way, I would want those holes filled, but at least answers to my questions might fill some in my future. You have to answer !"

"Done," one of the men growled, and Mat blinked.

Done? What was done? What did he mean? "Burn your eyes," he muttered. "Burn your souls! You are as bad as Aes Sedai. Well, I want a way to be free of Aes Sedai and the Power, and I want to be away from you and back to Rhuidean, if you will not answer me. Open up a door, and let me " "Done," another man said, and one of the women echoed, "Done."

Mat scanned the walls, then glared, turning to take them all in, standing up there on their pedestals staring down at him. "Done? What is done? I see no door. You lying goat fathered " "Fool," a woman said in a whispered growl, and others repeated it. Fool. Fool. Fool. "Wise to ask leavetaking, when you set no price, no terms." "Yet fool not to first agree on price."

Emphasis mine to show exactly where Mat asks for stuff from the 'finns.

ckparrothead 05-06-2010 05:19 PM

Thanks. That's always bothered me.

He asked for three things, he got four.

Q: Can I have these holes in my memory filled?
A: Sure, have some war time memories.

Q: Can I have a way to be free of Aes Sedai and the One Power?
A: Ok, here's a medallion.

Q: Can I go home now?
A: Yeah, but swinging from a tree.

Q: _________________?
A: Have a spear with ravens and a rhyme, on the house.

The next logical assumption would be that the spear has something to do with fulfilling his other three desires, either the filling his memories, the being free of Aes Sedai and the One Power, or going home. Not sure the spear got him home and I can't imagine the spear is somehow integral to his head being filled with war memories.

And thus, somehow the spear makes him free of Aes Sedai and the One Power. But, how?


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:30 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.