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Muirenn 11-01-2009 09:18 AM

It's Rand. Thom's mention that the Dragon Reborn is one with the land and the land is one with the Dragon. The things that keep happening to the world at large roughly follow Rand's wounds and moods. Much of what has been attributed to th Dark One is actually Rand's doing.

He is wounded at Falme, which cannot be healed, and is constantly warm to the touch, and the land enters a long summer.

He is cut by the Shadar Logoth daggar and things begin to rot. He grows increasingly paranoid and suspicious of his friends and allies because the wound is never healed and the spoilage accelerates.

The barriers between his past lives begin to thin and he is able to access memories from them, and ghosts (memories of previous times) start to appear.

He sinks deeper into madness/depression and the 'good' things normally caused by his ta'veren nature stop, leaving only the bad. A parallel to his mental state.

Just something I've been kicking around for a while. :)

Tamyrlin 11-01-2009 09:18 AM

Books 4 - 6
 
That's an interesting point...can't tell if Brandon is being "sneaky" with that comment, or if you consider the doorways...there are details about the doorways that occur in books 4 and 5, maybe he isn't sure when that small detail occurs...

1Powerslave 11-01-2009 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muirenn
It's Rand. Thom's mention that the Dragon Reborn is one with the land and the land is one with the Dragon. The things that keep happening to the world at large roughly follow Rand's wounds and moods. Much of what has been attributed to th Dark One is actually Rand's doing.

He is wounded at Falme, which cannot be healed, and is constantly warm to the touch, and the land enters a long summer.

He is cut by the Shadar Logoth daggar and things begin to rot. He grows increasingly paranoid and suspicious of his friends and allies because the wound is never healed and the spoilage accelerates.

The barriers between his past lives begin to thin and he is able to access memories from them, and ghosts (memories of previous times) start to appear.

He sinks deeper into madness/depression and the 'good' things normally caused by his ta'veren nature stop, leaving only the bad. A parallel to his mental state.

Just something I've been kicking around for a while. :)

Nice. Add to this, Rand finds out what is happening and Rand finds the song to reverse the effects.

Davian93 11-01-2009 09:25 AM

It reads to me as if he simply wasn't sure which of those 3 books it occurred in and he also didn't want to narrow it down. So there must be 1 small clue (akin to the clue in Mistborn) that is out in the open but considered completely innocent.

Muirenn 11-01-2009 09:26 AM

Possibly!

Quote:

TITLE: Great Hunt
CHAPTER: 50 - After
And men cried out to the Creator, praying, O Light of the Heavens, Light of the World, let the Promised One be born of the mountain, according to the Prophecies, as he was in Ages past and will be in Ages to come. Let the Prince of the Morning sing to the land that green things will grow and the valleys give forth lambs. Let the arm of the Lord of the Dawn shelter us from the Dark, and the great sword of justice defend us. Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time. -from Choral, Drianaan to Calaanon, The Cycle of the Dragon, Author unknown, the Fourth Age

Tamyrlin 11-01-2009 09:28 AM

Yeah
 
Could be that Rand's healing of the Land is it. But...all of Rand's affect on the Land...is not exactly small details...and his healing of the Land...wouldn't necessarily be some shocking detail that has been hidden.

1Powerslave 11-01-2009 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muirenn
TITLE: Great Hunt
CHAPTER: 50 - After
And men cried out to the Creator, praying, O Light of the Heavens, Light of the World, let the Promised One be born of the mountain, according to the Prophecies, as he was in Ages past and will be in Ages to come. Let the Prince of the Morning sing to the land that green things will grow and the valleys give forth lambs. Let the arm of the Lord of the Dawn shelter us from the Dark, and the great sword of justice defend us. Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time. -from Choral, Drianaan to Calaanon, The Cycle of the Dragon, Author unknown, the Fourth Age

This prophecy is all but fulfilled now. Justice the sword, is probably the sword Rand has now. Lord of the Morning was what Lews Therin was called IIRC, Rand can now rightfully call himself that.

That the Dragon Reborn is literally one with the land could be a side effect, not intended by the Pattern perhaps, of his being ta'veren. It also strengthen the let the lord of chaos rule theme, and the fisher king victory conditions.

Davian93 11-01-2009 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1Powerslave
This prophecy is all but fulfilled now. Justice the sword, is probably the sword Rand has now. Lord of the Morning was what Lews Therin was called IIRC, Rand can now rightfully call himself that.

That the Dragon Reborn is literally one with the land could be a side effect, not intended by the Pattern perhaps, of his being ta'veren. It also strengthen the let the lord of chaos rule theme, and the fisher king victory conditions.

I'm kinda annoyed since Rand never outright says its Justice nor is it recognized by the Seanchan. Was that statement released by someone on DM really accurate or are we just hoping. Granted, its hinted in Rand's POV at Falme but never said.

Muirenn 11-01-2009 09:40 AM

Tam, the 'small detail' would be Thom's comment, which most people have ignored. Mythology and legend (and the WoT world being the source thereof) have been major themes. The Fisher King legend is one that has been mostly ignored by the fandom.

1Powerslave 11-01-2009 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davian93
I'm kinda annoyed since Rand never outright says its Justice nor is it recognized by the Seanchan. Was that statement released by someone on DM really accurate or are we just hoping. Granted, its hinted in Rand's POV at Falme but never said.

Yeah, you're right, I shouldn't be citing it as near fact if I can't even pinpoint the source. Which is what exactly (other than the Tears from Steel chapter of course)? I can't recall.

Davian93 11-01-2009 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muirenn
Tam, the 'small detail' would be Thom's comment, which most people have ignored. Mythology and legend (and the WoT world being the source thereof) have been major themes. The Fisher King legend is one that has been mostly ignored by the fandom.

We've talked extensively about the Fisher King theme here on TL.

Zaela Sedai 11-01-2009 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davian93
We've talked extensively about the Fisher King theme here on TL.


Yeah we have.... over and over again....I think its a theory(ies) on the main board isn't it? It was common years ago, we just haven't hashed it up again as much as before.

Ana - I thought the same thing when I read PS's sig

JSUCamel 11-01-2009 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davian93
It reads to me as if he simply wasn't sure which of those 3 books it occurred in and he also didn't want to narrow it down. So there must be 1 small clue (akin to the [REDACTED] in Mistborn) that is out in the open but considered completely innocent.

Slightly off topic, but I think perhaps you should censor the "thing" in Mistborn that was crucial to the plot. There are many here who have not read the series and may be tempted to read them now that they've read Brandon's writing in TGS. Therefore, we shouldn't spoil that series, too. After all, Brandon himself didn't give away what it was at the signing in Vegas.

I believe you've referenced the thing in question three or four times this thread. If you could edit it out or change it to something else, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks.

Trutino 11-01-2009 11:22 AM

A couple ideas
 
I agree that BS probably couldn't remember which of those three books it was. I checked anyway to see if there were any major things/arcs introduced in and across those books.

First doorway ter'angreal introduced in Tear in book four. From then on we come across another doorway and Rhuidean rings and ancestor thing that Aviendha will be using in ToM.

Jasin Natael is also introduced in book four.

Finally, is there anything that hasn't been beaten to death about these two? (Davram and Mazrim):

Joiya tells Egwene that the Black Ajah plan to free Mazrim Taim and set him up as a false dragon in book four (they go to Tanchico instead), Mazrim Taim escapes from the Aes Sedai in book four, we find out Bashere goes AWOL in book five, Bashere leads a taunting Mazrim Taim to Rand in book five, Mazrim Taim sets up Black Tower in book six, etc.

Maybe there's something there, maybe not!

ETA: It's probably something we've beaten to death but missed one detail on

Muirenn 11-01-2009 11:22 AM

I looked on the main site, and under 'Fisher King' there are only two quick comments. Neither of which deal with Thom's comment that the Dragon is one with the land. That's what I meant. Sorry if it was unclear. :)

And the confirmation of Rand's sword being Justice was Brandon to Jennifer Liang. He also said that the description of the sword was based on the one Brandon was given from RJ's personal collection. Pic can be seen on his blog. :)

WinespringBrother 11-01-2009 11:24 AM

We should do a poll on this, though we have a year to go before any answers emerge.

I'm late to the thread, but a couple of comments:

Egeanin appeared first in TGH, not TSR.

Gholam have probably also been around since TGH - Barthanes death fits their MO.

I was surprised Verin was Black Ajah, but not that she was hunting them ;)



As for prediction of small thing, Moghedien was told by either Moridin or Shaidar Haran that she did some small good thing by mistake which saved her bacon. Presumably that was sometime in books 4-6 and I had a theory that she was responsible for Gaidal's disappearance prior to her ripping Birgitte out of TAR. But I like the Tinker thing too. Maybe we can do some kind of timeline to figure out who could have killed the Tinkers and start from there. At least we know shadowspawn weren't gated there.

lurk 11-01-2009 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tercel
A random thought:
There was reported to be war in Shara much earlier in the series... perhaps we will see the results as Sharan armies march to support Rand... seems unlikely as Rand's plotline shouldn't have much time in ToM.

Hmmm, Aviendha just went into the waste, she could meet them and tell them where to go

Might even be the armies that save the day....

Tamyrlin 11-01-2009 11:53 AM

Could be Fisher King
 
Muirenn - what are your thoughts on how it would fit"shocking"? Shocking in the way that it comes about?

Muirenn 11-01-2009 12:02 PM

Shocking (to the fan groups) in the way that we all sort of glossed over it. We connected the Fisher (playing piece from the sha'rah game) to the beggar vision of Rand, and to the legend of the Fisher King. But didn't take it far enough. (I can't believe we haven't been discussing this for twelve years!)

And very likely the big reveal itself will be shocking. I don't think we'll know that part until we get ToM. But I can imagine the reaction on the part of the characters (including Rand) when they realize that all these effects that they blamed on the Dark One are actually caused by Rand.

Weird Harold 11-01-2009 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trutino
ETA: It's probably something we've beaten to death but missed one detail on

Another minor detail that would fit this interpretation is the fact that Seed Singing doesn't require channers.

That would tie into the return of tinkers to the books after a lapse of a book or two of no mention of the tinkers other than Aram.

We learned that seed singing in books 4-6 from Charn's(?) POV in the glass columns ter'angreal, but I'd have to look it uo to give a book/chapter reference.


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