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-   -   Is ******* a Darkfriend? (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2523)

GonzoTheGreat 07-07-2010 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terez (Post 103205)
And it had more to do with her personality than any idea about how many unrevealed Darkfriends there should be around Rand.

She's a strong woman, so obviously she's evil. :p

Toss the dice 07-08-2010 12:55 PM

I always assumed Shaidar Haran freed Semirhage and then left. And that Semirhage did everything else, from locating the box to opening it to retrieve the bracelets, after killing the sisters standing guard, then taking Elza with her.

I wouldn't count it very improbable that Semirhage would possibly take a look around Cadsuane's room for anything that could be of use, whether it be angreal, information, or whatever. She stumbles across a warded box or simply finds the box and discovers it is warded. Being an AOL Forsaken with vastly more knowledge, skill, and considerably more strength in the Power than Cadsuane herself, she has no problem with the warded box and opens it to find the sad bracelets.

In this same vein of thinking, SH could have told Semirhage about the sad bracelets before he left, although I think that's highly unlikely bordering on impossible due to Rand getting access to the TP to escape. Because of this, I also find it unlikely that Shaidar Haran would open the box.

Maybe Semirhage found the box on her own or she could have learned about it from Elza or another DF, including Sorilea. While I personally believe Sorilea is not a Darkfriend, it is possible. All the quotes given in this thread really only say that it is possible, but that's true for many "good" characters. Sorilea being a DF could be very interesting.

If there is something wrong with what i've said (as in something simply can't be), let me know. I am basing this off of slightly fuzzy memory.

GonzoTheGreat 07-08-2010 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toss the dice (Post 103311)
I always assumed Shaidar Haran freed Semirhage and then left. And that Semirhage did everything else, from locating the box to opening it to retrieve the bracelets, after killing the sisters standing guard, then taking Elza with her.

When Semirhage left the room in which she was imprisoned, outside she found three corpses (the women who had been shielding her). Also outside was Elza, kneeling, who informed her of the Compulsion and gave her the E've.

So Semirhage didn't have to search for it, and she did not have to go into Cadsuane's room for it. Someone else had already done that. And she hadn't killed the AS who were guarding her either.

Toss the dice 07-08-2010 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat (Post 103313)
When Semirhage left the room in which she was imprisoned, outside she found three corpses (the women who had been shielding her). Also outside was Elza, kneeling, who informed her of the Compulsion and gave her the E've.

So Semirhage didn't have to search for it, and she did not have to go into Cadsuane's room for it. Someone else had already done that. And she hadn't killed the AS who were guarding her either.

Thanks for the straight of it. :)

PS You just killed my entire post.

Casabamelon 07-08-2010 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toss the dice (Post 103311)
In this same vein of thinking, SH could have told Semirhage about the sad bracelets before he left, although I think that's highly unlikely bordering on impossible due to Rand getting access to the TP to escape. Because of this, I also find it unlikely that Shaidar Haran would open the box.

I know I'm not alone in theorizing that the whole point of getting the sad braclets to Semi was the Dark One knowing of Rand's connection to Moridin and the fact that the ONLY way Rand could free himself from the bracelets was the TP. So, either Rand doesn't tap into the TP and he's a freak on a leash, or he does, and he now has touched the Dark One.

Win-Win for the Dark One.
________
BODY SCIENCE

greatwolf 07-08-2010 04:35 PM

If its the DO's idea, then he's banking on something he might know enough about. That link was created by the pattern. At least the response to BF is by the pattern not the DO.

Casabamelon 07-08-2010 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greatwolf (Post 103331)
If its the DO's idea, then he's banking on something he might know enough about. That link was created by the pattern. At least the response to BF is by the pattern not the DO.

I'm not sure I understand where you're going with this.
________
Shower porn

Sukoto 07-08-2010 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat (Post 103313)
When Semirhage left the room in which she was imprisoned, outside she found three corpses (the women who had been shielding her). Also outside was Elza, kneeling, who informed her of the Compulsion and gave her the E've.

So Semirhage didn't have to search for it, and she did not have to go into Cadsuane's room for it. Someone else had already done that. And she hadn't killed the AS who were guarding her either.

It is also important to note that there was only one corpse, not three. Daigian was dead, Corel and Nesune were in a trance and only looked dead. Neither Merise nor Narishma could see remnants of weaves.

So, here are some questions that might be interesting to speculate on:

Who put Nesune and Corele in a trance?
Who put Compulsion on Elza?

The answer to both of these questions is certainly not Sorilea. Neither is it likely that another Black sister is the culprit. A Black sister wouldn't know how to weave Compulsion unless one of the Forsaken had taught her, which is a complicated scenario at best and doesn't make much sense (see Liandrin vs. Moghedien).

Do these two events make us want to re-think SH's ability to act on non-Darkfriends? The way the trance is described makes it seem like it might not have been done with the OP. The part where Merise talks about not being able to see remnants of weaves seems intended to lead us to believe that SH did it. Of course, maybe you could argue that the weaves were inverted, and then everyone could argue about the meaning of remnants, residues, inverted weaves, what you can and cannot see/detect/sense, etc, etc.

Anyway, the above questions are, for me, the two points that could rule out the possibility of Sorilea being a DF.

Kimon 07-08-2010 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sukoto (Post 103357)
Who put Compulsion on Elza?

Verin

Terez 07-08-2010 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casabamelon (Post 103333)
I'm not sure I understand where you're going with this.

This is a standard reaction to vardene's posts.

greatwolf 07-09-2010 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casabamelon (Post 103333)
I'm not sure I understand where you're going with this.

Well, most of us beleive the link between Rand and Moridin came as a result of BF. But BF itself doesn't create links! BF will erase whatever is in its path from the pattern.But that would leave a vacuum. Its that vacuum that the pattern rushes to fill in, to keep things (the weaving I suppose) intact.

To repeat the oft used example, when Moggyu BFed Nynaeve's boat in aCoS, she burned the rowers and a piece of the boat out of the pattern for a few minutes. So they haven't been in existence those few minutes and all sorts of consequences occur as a result.

1. The boat ends up behind the boat that was following it instantaneously.

2. The boat is in twobits at the point where it reappears, both halves sinking.

3. The occupant is in water and already taking in water, same for the bits of the boat.

All happened instantaneously.

And all beyond the DO's ability to influence. It all happened beforehe was aware of it. Minutes ago.

The BF has removed a couple of stitches from the weaving. The pattern patches it up immediately, doing what the DO cannot do - reach backwards in time to maintain the present.

Because the restructuring after a BF event is done by the pattern rather than the DO, it will be restructured to the pattern's goals and benefit not the DO's.

So why did the pattern allow the link to come about in the first place? (Remember the link was apparently predicted by Min) We don't know except that it won't be for the DO's benefit.

There's this feeling you get in chess when you know you're going to fall into the other guy's trap and you just for the life of you can't tell what he's up to.

If I were the DO, I'd kill Moridn to get him out of that link fast.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ttt
This is a standard reaction to vardene's posts.

I always try to cut it into soft bits for you dear.

Sukoto 07-09-2010 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimon (Post 103358)
Verin

I don't think Verin's "Compulsion" is what Elza was referring to when she was talking to Semi. It seems more likely that someone put more powerful Compulsion on her mind right before Semi was freed and gave her the set of orders that she carried out, i.e. "I was instructed to tell you that there is Compulsion in my mind that you are to remove... I was also instructed to give you this (DB)."

Terez 07-09-2010 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sukoto (Post 103455)
I don't think Verin's "Compulsion" is what Elza was referring to when she was talking to Semi.

Brandon confirmed that it was. I also had the same impression as you at first, though.

Terez 07-09-2010 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greatwolf (Post 103452)
I always try to cut it into soft bits for you dear.

Thanks. I think I scared everyone else away so I've been clicking 'view post' a lot lately (as I'm sure you've noticed). How is it that you managed to find the ugliest wolf picture on the internet for your avatar?

Sukoto 07-10-2010 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terez (Post 103464)
Brandon confirmed that it was. I also had the same impression as you at first, though.

Stupid interviews. They ruin everything.

greatwolf 07-10-2010 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terez (Post 103465)
Thanks. I think I scared everyone else away so I've been clicking 'view post' a lot lately (as I'm sure you've noticed). How is it that you managed to find the ugliest wolf picture on the internet for your avatar?


Maybe you could try cutting the noobs some slack. Everyone can't be Terez. Most of the good avatars seem to be bigger than size limit allowed here. But it'll probably change soon.

E:Your avatar is er, em, well a little scary. Is it a mother troll?

Terez 07-10-2010 09:50 PM

You can't claim to be a noob any more! Also, my avatar is a happyspider. It's supposed to be scary.

greatwolf 07-11-2010 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terez (Post 103521)
You can't claim to be a noob any more! Also, my avatar is a happyspider. It's supposed to be scary.

lol. What do you have in common with moghedien? :p

GonzoTheGreat 07-11-2010 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greatwolf (Post 103545)
lol. What do you have in common with moghedien? :p

She's stealthy, pretty, doesn't appear to be capable of channeling and turns up on short notice in strange cities. Those things all apply to Moghedien, as you should know.

Terez 07-11-2010 08:26 PM

I am a small, harmless spider, thankyouverymuch.


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