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-   -   Can Rand do it? (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2754)

Belazamon 12-04-2009 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluejam (Post 79699)
I'm just going by the knowledge that the Creator made Shai'tan for there to be a counterbalance in his creation

Actually that's not known at all.

The Creation/Destruction dichotomy, on the other hand, is something to which I've always subscribed.

DahLliA 12-04-2009 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy (Post 79357)
It's an interesting question as to why the Creator did not destroy the Dark One

easy one

Quote:

Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world? Where none suffered, where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program. Entire crops were lost. Some believed we lacked the programming language to describe your perfect world. But I believe that, as a species, human beings define their reality through suffering and misery. The perfect world was a dream that your primitive cerebrum kept trying to wake up from. Which is why the Matrix was redesigned to this: the peak of your civilization.

Wunderwaffe 12-06-2009 02:29 AM

Is it safe to assume that all previous iterations of the Dragon Soul at some point before the end fully integrated all memories of their past selves? Or was Rand's integration with all of his previous iterations a unique act to this Age?

Weird Harold 12-06-2009 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wunderwaffe (Post 79890)
Is it safe to assume that all previous iterations of the Dragon Soul at some point before the end fully integrated all memories of their past selves? Or was Rand's integration with all of his previous iterations a unique act to this Age?

Strictly guesswork, but I think the Dragon Soul does integrate with -- or at least become aware of -- his past lives at the end of every Third Age in his final incarnation of the Second and Third Ages (eg as the Dragon Reborn) but otherwise is only integrated with all of his past lives while awaiting reincarnation in T'A'R.

The Dragon Soul is spun out once as the Dragon to supervise the end of the Second Age (and partially re-imprison the DO) and then spun out a second time as the Dragon Reborn to supervise the end of the Third Age and repair the DO's prison so that it can become completely forgotten again by the end of the next First Age. Only the second archetype needs to be aware that he is "a specific Soul reborn according to Prophecy," in Greandal's words.

According to RJ, the Dragon Soul is spun out in "non-dragon" incarnations, and remembering past lives as the Dragon or Dragon Reborn would probably be counter-productive to those incarnations.

Yellowbeard 12-07-2009 12:30 PM

just had this thought. at work so don't have books and can't look up things to check at the moment.

don't a few of the 4th age writings that appear as quotes at the beginning/ending of the novels reference the DO's prison,etc.?

and i thought strike at shayol ghul was written like it was a report written by a 4th age author, and it references that a "thinness" in the pattern can be detected to show where the DO's prison is?

wouldn't that suggest that the DO survives TG and his prison is restored to a pre-bore condition?

i've been intrigued by LTT's statements that something had to touch the DO when they sealed he sealed the bore. i'm wondering why? why does something have to touch the DO? obviously, when rand gets his redo attempt at the sealing, he can't use saidin or saidar. the obvious answer is fain, but it also seems to me that maybe RJ isn't that predictable.

Wunderwaffe 12-07-2009 12:43 PM

Hey Harold, the second and third age Dragons always serve the same function? The second age Dragon partially but imperfectly seals the Bore. The third age Dragon, having a "second chance," correctly seals the bore.

The roles can't be reversed? It seems odd that the second age Dragon can never do the job as effectively as the third age Dragon. Why does the second age Dragon always screw up? LTT, in his arrogance, thought men could seal the DO away as well as the Creator did. Three thousand some years later the world is still reeling from the effects of his baseless assumption.

Weird Harold 12-07-2009 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellowbeard (Post 80094)
and i thought strike at shayol ghul was written like it was a report written by a 4th age author, and it references that a "thinness" in the pattern can be detected to show where the DO's prison is?

"The Strike At Shayol Ghul" was written during the Breaking -- Late Second Age,Early Third Age, or an indeterminate Interstitial period -- not in the Fourth Age.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wunderwaffe (Post 80098)
Hey Harold, the second and third age Dragons always serve the same function?

I see a full Turning as most like the Playbill at a Shakespearian fetival -- Every night, the same seven plays are performed live, onstage, in the same order. Each day's performance is slightly different because of audience reactions and flubbed lines, but Romeo and Juliet always end up dead, Lady MacBeth never gets the blood washed off her hands, and Julius Ceasar still gets a knife or twelve in his back.

The Dragon is the lead in one play and the Dragon Reborn is the lead in the next. Julius Ceaser doesn't get to kill himself over Juliet and Lady MacBeth doesn't get to poison herself over unrequited love even if the same actors play Juliet-Lady Macbeth and Romeo-Ceaser; Each play has a script that must be followed.

Bonzi77 12-07-2009 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weird Harold (Post 80118)
I see a full Turning as most like the Playbill at a Shakespearian fetival -- Every night, the same seven plays are performed live, onstage, in the same order. Each day's performance is slightly different because of audience reactions and flubbed lines, but Romeo and Juliet always end up dead, Lady MacBeth never gets the blood washed off her hands, and Julius Ceasar still gets a knife or twelve in his back.

SPOILER ALERT

Weird Harold 12-07-2009 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonzi77 (Post 80120)
SPOILER ALERT

Pfffft! :p

Shakespear has been released just a tiny bit longer than the six-months to a year Theoryland worries about spoilers. :D

Crispin's Crispian 12-07-2009 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weird Harold (Post 80122)
Pfffft! :p

Shakespear has been released just a tiny bit longer than the six-months to a year Theoryland worries about spoilers. :D

Wait, Julius Caesar was killed?!

wolframbohr2 12-07-2009 03:08 PM

Boy, way to go and spoil the plot of the book I was reading after tGS. Next your gonna tell me that Holmes survived Reichenbach Falls.

Terez 12-07-2009 03:40 PM

Who?

Blue Bob 12-07-2009 04:28 PM

I thnk he means Robert Downey Jr.

Belazamon 12-07-2009 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Bob (Post 80144)
I thnk he means Robert Downey Jr.

Elementary.

Wunderwaffe 12-08-2009 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belazamon (Post 80179)
Elementary.

, my dear Blue Bob.

Belazamon 12-08-2009 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wunderwaffe (Post 80257)
, my dear Blue Bob.

thatsthejoke.jpg


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