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greebo 11-07-2010 11:02 PM

totally lost...
 
I have to admit- this was the first place in the book that totally stumped me and got me wondering "whatthe hell was THAT all about". Honestly, I have not the smallest clue, but I like the Jenn idea. The fact that the woman just vanished without Avi sensing anything, though, leads me to think Forsaken or ghost.
Either way, I honestly thought this would be one of the first things I say posted, and was surprised that it took this long, so thanks Tam cuz it's nice that we can still have some serious mystery and fodder this late in the game!

MaliciousMatt 11-09-2010 12:21 PM

Just me...
 
Long time stalker, first time poster.

When I read this part I was convinced that it was simply something akin to a vision. Aviendha has been mulling over the plight of the Aiel for some time. It didn't really seem like such a far stretch for her to experience a vision like this while on this profound journey to complete her training.

That just seems like the simplest answer, and so I gravitate towards it I suppose.

Tamyrlin 11-09-2010 12:28 PM

Interesting
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MaliciousMatt (Post 125249)
Long time stalker, first time poster.

When I read this part I was convinced that it was simply something akin to a vision. Aviendha has been mulling over the plight of the Aiel for some time. It didn't really seem like such a far stretch for her to experience a vision like this while on this profound journey to complete her training.

That just seems like the simplest answer, and so I gravitate towards it I suppose.

Like a Blood Vision, akin to Blood Memories. I like it MM. I will add it to the list.

X.X. 11-09-2010 01:45 PM

Has to be a Wise One...
 
I hadn't contemplated it happening in TAR, but that makes it easy to be Amys. It makes the most sense. Aviendha is important to the Aiel. The wise ones know this. Who knows, maybe Avi wasn't the only one to to give the columns a second spin.

They fear for the future of their people and know she is the key. They also know how stubborn and proud she is. Just listen to her internal monologue about "being soft". It wouldn't take much for the other wise ones to glean her attitude. Hence, 'Nakomi' comes along, pretty much shaking up what Avi was thinking, saying things they could not just directly tell her themselves lest she simply dismisses them as "growing soft" as well.

We may never find out who, but to me, it just seems like a clever ploy to to nudge avi toward the mental place she needs to be in order to do the right things.

Tamyrlin 11-09-2010 01:49 PM

Part of the Training
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by X.X. (Post 125301)
I hadn't contemplated it happening in TAR, but that makes it easy to be Amys. It makes the most sense. Aviendha is important to the Aiel. The wise ones know this. Who knows, maybe Avi wasn't the only one to to give the columns a second spin.

They fear for the future of their people and know she is the key. They also know how stubborn and proud she is. Just listen to her internal monologue about "being soft". It wouldn't take much for the other wise ones to glean her attitude. Hence, 'Nakomi' comes along, pretty much shaking up what Avi was thinking, saying things they could not just directly tell her themselves lest she simply dismisses them as "growing soft" as well.

We may never find out who, but to me, it just seems like a clever ploy to to nudge avi toward the mental place she needs to be in order to do the right things.

It being part of the journey back to the columns, as part of the formal training of a Wise One, is one of the avenues I'm going to looking into for my theory.

I think Aviendha is unique in what she did about the columns, with her Talent, but I believe the Wise Ones know it is likely to happen and important that it does.

FelixPax 11-09-2010 05:41 PM

Who is Nakomi likely?

An Aiel women who broke Clan & Sept, and who later interacted with Tuatha'an in Three-Folds Land. A women who has tasted Tuatha'an cooking, like the Dedicated Arlen Nalaam has once tasted (TofM, pg 684-685).

Perhaps Nakomi has met Ila or someone whom she has taught cooking too?

Nakomi, I suspect will be one of the remnant of a remnant... assuming she flees Three-Folds Land.

dannil 11-09-2010 07:00 PM

Nakomi is Demandred
 
What do we know:
1. She appeared and left suddenly and so quietly that Aviendha did not hear her. If she was a female channeller her gateway probably would have been felt. Yes, I know there are ways around this, but it adds to the total impression. She wasn't a maiden so it would be unlikely for her to approach silently enough on her own.
2. She made a few mistakes that a real Aiel might not make: she was travelling alone in the waste without water of her own. She mistook Aviendha as a Wise One when other Aiel seemed to recognize her as an apprentice (something like the clan and society recognition Aiel seem to have automatically for one another?) She asked for water to make tea before it was offered. This struck me as impolite for an Aiel.
3. Aviendha could tell that she was not a channeller. Yes, there are ways to hide the ability for a woman, but a man using the mirror of mists would not appear to be a channeler either.
4. Most telling: the passage is very clear that when Nakomi appeared Aviendha grasped the One Power rather than her weapons - she was even proud of herself for doing so. Yet one of the first things Nakomi said was that she would not hurt Aviendha - even though Aviendha would not have appeared threatening or threatend to most observers. Nakomi must have either seen or felt Aviendha holding the source.

I've believed for a while now that Demandred has been in the waste. He could have learned of Aviendha approaching the city and put on the mirror of mists in order to learn more about her intentions. I'd add one more possibility: what if, after learning that she was to go through the crystal columns, Demandred was able to alter what Aviendha saw when whe went through the second time?!?

metaphor 11-09-2010 07:35 PM

I'd say an apparition/ghost from the past. Maybe an AoL AS, a Jenn Wise One or something else.



Reasoning about the possibilities in the OP I reached those conclusions:


A Forsken/darkfriend

She gave advice to Aviendha, tried to guide her. The thing is, it is good advice. Aviendah herlself had been thinking about that problem. Should the Aiel continue with the old ways even though the reasons for those ways don't exist anymore?

It was not only said by someone who understand the ways of the Aiel, but it was something helpful to the Aiel.

For this reason I would exclude a Darkfriend or a Forsaken.


Wise Ones

Nakomi suggested that the Aiel should adapt to the future and change their ways. The Wise Ones know that the change will come, but they are reluctant to change, try to resist it, don't like it. And in any case, they would have talked about it with Aviendha and other WO in the tents.


Verin
Verin could have realized the problem of maintaining or changing the Aiel ways, and she would have the motivation do help them. But she doesn't have the knowledge and ability and power to affect the Glass Columns. She may have known somehow that Aviendha would have gone through them twice, and that she would have seen the future, and the kind of future she would have seen, but it would be kind of a stretch, and wouldn't explain who and why had put those visions in the Columns.


Age of Legend Aes Sedai and Jenn

Thy are the ones who made the Columns, the AoL AS who helped build Ruhidean.
They had both the means and the motivation.
The Glass Columns were made so that the Aiel could survive-the clans who didn't accept the pact of the Ruhidean would die off- and prepare them for the last battle. But after that?
As Aviendha has realized, the travel through the columns is now pointless, but the struggles for the Aiel aren't ended. They have survived the 3rd age and been prepared for the Last Battle, but will they survive after the LB?In the 4th age?
That's what Aviendha's role is, and, I figure, the final purpose of the glass columns. Prepare the Aiel to the aftermath, and Aviendha will lead them. This would be confirmed by the fact that after coming out Aviendha touched them and they felt dead. The columns have stopped working, because the Aiel don't need them anymore.More, staying attached to the past would be harmful to them. They have to look to the future now.


Who exactly is Nakomi?


How does Nakomi fit into this?
I believe she is there to guide Aviendha, and suggest her the right path, so that she in turn could guide the Aiel.

Her apparition to Aviendha has been prepared thousands of years ago by the same AS who created the GC. Who she is in particular is more difficult to say. AN AS, a wise one, or an image created just for that purpose?
She could also be a ghost of a Jenn or one of the AS who made the Ruihdean. They knew, maybe through foretellings and visions, many important events which would happen in the future, so they could have known of the thinning of reality and the possibility for one of them to speak with Aviendha.

The scenario that I like is that she is the spirit of Ruhidean iself.
When Rand and Asmo destroyed the mist they freed her, who had since them been wandering the desert giving advice to various Aiel, and waiting for Aviendha.

THose are certainly the ones who made the Columns, the AoL AS who helped build Ruhidean.

morat'corlm 11-09-2010 07:49 PM

I'm in agreement with those who think it was a Wise One dreamwalker in T'A'R.

Nakomi features some of Verin's mannerisms, yes, but I do not believe Verin could have absorbed that much of Aiel culture in her few months as a restricted guest. And, perhaps more importantly, I find it hard to believe we would just be given a weird scene like this with no explanation later, and Verin is too dead to explain it. Unless one of her letters reaches Aviendha, perhaps.

Terez 11-09-2010 09:24 PM

That is an unfounded statement, about Verin absorbing their culture. You need to substantiate it, or it's just noises in the wind.

Also, Nakomi had nothing to do with Aviendha's vision in the columns.

morat'corlm 11-09-2010 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terez (Post 125516)
That is an unfounded statement, about Verin absorbing their culture. You need to substantiate it, or it's just noises in the wind.

It's no more unfounded than
Quote:

Originally Posted by Terez (Post 120202)
I think she understood a great deal about the Aiel from her interactions with them, especially when she was questioning the 'apprentices'.

You think (with little to no supporting evidence) she could have learned a very great deal about the Aiel even with her limited and mistrustful interactions with them; I (with little to no supporting evidence) do not. We shall see.

The mannerisms are indicative of a wetlander, yes, and even Verin in particular. But I do not find it credible that she could have tracked down Aviendha, either in the actual Waste or in T'A'R. More noise on the wind, I know.

Terez 11-09-2010 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morat'corlm (Post 125520)
It's no more unfounded than

Bullshit. There is tons of evidence that Verin had plenty of familiarity with the Aiel, and that most of what she said in her conversation with Aviendha was covered in her very first encounter with an Aiel.

You need to substantiate your claim.

jana 11-09-2010 10:25 PM

It's not a stretch at all to think Verin knows a lot about Aiel. She just outed the entire Black Ajah, when she was only supposed to know about those in her heart. If anyone in the series was going to learn their ways, it would be her.

She had plenty of time around Gaul/Bain/Chiad and then a bunch of Wise Ones from Crown of Swords to Knife of Dreams. She's been around Aiel more than we have =oP

bwardj 11-10-2010 01:08 AM

Here's a loony idea. We know that the pattern is weakening and that ghosts have been seen walking the world, etc. What else might be happening because of the thinning of the pattern? Could, possibly, the pattern be thinned enough for other patterns to be seen through them?

What I mean is this. We know that there are other worlds (the ones accessible via the portal stones, etc.). Perhaps these other worlds each have their own similar, yet different pattern that may be near the one we've been reading about.

My idea is similar to the "bubble of good" one, I suppose. What if the thinning of the pattern allowed Nakomi to wander over from another world, chat with Avi, and wander away with no sign of her passing.

Nakomi might just be an ordinary Aiel that found herself in another world where things were different. She knew she was close to home (since her world was close to Avi's) yet far away since she didn't know how to go back. Nakomi's mannerisms could easily be explained if she was from another world where things were happening similar to, yet differently than the world Avi knows. Once she had done what she was meant to, she found her way back to her own world.

It's a stretch, but I think it's a possibility.

lord Mordeth 11-10-2010 01:09 AM

I would also say, in support of the Verin hypothesis, that Nakomi doesn't show incredible, detailed knowledge of Aiel ways; her insights are sharp, but they're also something that outside familiarity and a sharp mind (ie. Verin) would be sufficient for. And the small mistakes, like seeing Aviendha as a Wise One, add to that impression.

The question that leaves, though, is: why would Verin choose to meet with Avi in TAR? The coals etc. point to that, but Verin wasn't a Dreamer and so couldn't have pulled Aviendha in. This is the part that has me confused. If it was the waking world, why the physical incongruities? Neither seems quite to make sense.

Terez 11-10-2010 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord Mordeth (Post 125563)
The question that leaves, though, is: why would Verin choose to meet with Avi in TAR? The coals etc. point to that, but Verin wasn't a Dreamer and so couldn't have pulled Aviendha in. This is the part that has me confused. If it was the waking world, why the physical incongruities? Neither seems quite to make sense.

It could have been inverted weaves. But if it was Tel'aran'rhiod, then Verin is in a better position than most to use it. It would have been an easy way to find her. The Wise Ones say that pulling someone into Tel'aran'rhiod is a thing of the Shadow. Perhaps Verin knows it, but perhaps that is also why Corianin Nedeal's notes were too dangerous to share with Egwene.

lord Mordeth 11-11-2010 12:03 AM

Thanks, that makes sense. I'd misremembered the pulling in as being something only a Dreamer could do. If that's not the case, I feel like that option is more plausible than inverted weaves - for one thing, although those weaves themselves aren't visible, I don't think we have any reason to think that the channelling itself wouldn't be felt. So Verin could hide her ability and her weaves from Avi, but not the fact that she was touching the Source.

Res_Ipsa 11-11-2010 12:53 AM

20 says Nakomi in AmoL appears before Rand and starts shouting Baba Booey. Thats how we know BS lost his mind finishing the series!

Terez 11-11-2010 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord Mordeth (Post 126127)
Thanks, that makes sense. I'd misremembered the pulling in as being something only a Dreamer could do. If that's not the case, I feel like that option is more plausible than inverted weaves - for one thing, although those weaves themselves aren't visible, I don't think we have any reason to think that the channelling itself wouldn't be felt. So Verin could hide her ability and her weaves from Avi, but not the fact that she was touching the Source.

How do you think Moghedien got away with pretending to be Marigan for so long? Why do you think Demandred was so surprised when his reversed weaves were pinpointed at the Cleansing? (Cadsuane had that ter'angreal.) Also:

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ
TITLE - Knife of Dreams
PROLOGUE - Embers Falling on Dry Grass

Melare’s eyebrows climbed again as the implications sank in. “We’ll see how clear it is in the morning,” she said slowly, “when they let down the half that’s still iron. The rest of it stands out stiff like, well, like a bar of cuendillar. Myself, I doubt any but smaller vessels will be able to cross.” She shook her head with a puzzled expression. “There was something strange, though. More than strange. We couldn’t find the wilder, at first. We couldn’t feel her channeling. There was no glow around her, and we couldn’t see her weaves. The chain just started turning white. If Arebis’s Warder hadn’t spotted the boat, she might have finished and gotten away.”


Galagros 11-11-2010 08:30 AM

Last night I had a dream that I fully understood the Nakomi sequence and couldn't help thinking, "Wow, that's so obvious. Why didn't anything think of this yet!?"

And then I woke up ... and couldn't remember a damn thing. :)


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