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-   -   The Faces of Nakomi (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=4439)

Caveatar 11-11-2010 10:06 AM

Forgot the dream?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Galagros (Post 126257)
Last night I had a dream that I fully understood the Nakomi sequence and couldn't help thinking, "Wow, that's so obvious. Why didn't anything think of this yet!?"

And then I woke up ... and couldn't remember a damn thing. :)

It is intuitively obvious that you were pulled into someone's dream. Either Brandon or Maria or Harriet or someone else who knows all about Nakomi. :D

morat'corlm 11-11-2010 05:39 PM

Quote:

"I am far from my roof," the woman said, wistful, "yet not far at all. Perhaps it is far from me. I cannot answer your question, apprentice, for it is not my place to give this truth."
Aviendha frowned. What kind of answer was that?
The obvious answer is, an Aes Sedai one, and I can see how it could support Verin, particularly the last sentence (if one of the letters will give the truth instead). But perhaps it could also support Nakomi as Egwene. That's not what I think is likely, but I don't see it as substantially less likely than Verin.

Crispin's Crispian 11-11-2010 07:13 PM

After reading through this thread and Tam's original one, I'm struck that no one noticed the similarity between Nakomi's words about the Three-fold Land and Aviendha's continuous punishment of herself before she was sent of to Rhuidean.

I haven't reread that part of TGS in a while, but IIRC Aviendha is constantly taking on stupid, menial, yet difficult tasks for the WOs, whilst at the same time wondering why they won't promote her. It turns out that they were just waiting for her to ask, and she had been needlessly punishing herself all that time.

This fits almost hand-in-glove with Nakomi's argument that the Aiel need not return to the Three-fold Land because there is no reason to keep punishing themselves. If you read the Aviendha sections in TGS and ToM as a direct sequence, I'd bet it would seem like an overarching theme.

That makes me lean towards the idea that this is either a Wise One, or a predetermined portion of the final Wise One test. They were reinforcing the point to Aviendha, and she ran with the idea all the way to Rhuidean.

Verin just doesn't seem likely, however similar her mannerisms. I just don't get the motive for it to be Verin, unless we're going to find out more later.

Tamyrlin 11-11-2010 08:59 PM

Agreed
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Crispin's Crispian (Post 126502)
After reading through this thread and Tam's original one, I'm struck that no one noticed the similarity between Nakomi's words about the Three-fold Land and Aviendha's continuous punishment of herself before she was sent of to Rhuidean.

I haven't reread that part of TGS in a while, but IIRC Aviendha is constantly taking on stupid, menial, yet difficult tasks for the WOs, whilst at the same time wondering why they won't promote her. It turns out that they were just waiting for her to ask, and she had been needlessly punishing herself all that time.

This fits almost hand-in-glove with Nakomi's argument that the Aiel need not return to the Three-fold Land because there is no reason to keep punishing themselves. If you read the Aviendha sections in TGS and ToM as a direct sequence, I'd bet it would seem like an overarching theme.

That makes me lean towards the idea that this is either a Wise One, or a predetermined portion of the final Wise One test. They were reinforcing the point to Aviendha, and she ran with the idea all the way to Rhuidean.

It works really well as a predetermined part of the final test, especially as the Wise Ones have come to depend on dreamwalking. They need to understand the future and be prepared for it to save their people. It's an important part of the function they serve, and I'm sure each of these predetermined portions of the test are a little bit different, depending on what they have learned about the woman and the world at the time of the test. To me, it is the culmination of what is started in the TDR concerning the Wise Ones/Aviendha and saving a remnant.

Although, I think it can still work without it being a definitive part of the test.

Terez 11-11-2010 10:52 PM

There's still the little problem of the fact that the Wise Ones can't invade and control someone's dreams, and that they won't pull anyone into Tel'aran'rhiod.

Brita 11-12-2010 12:01 AM

It's Future Aviendha, disguising herself and returning to the past by some ter'angriel means. The mannerisms are familiar because it is Avhienda herself returned from the future to warn her younger self at a crucial junction.

Just a crazy idea to throw into the mix. Or is that the Marty McFly theory already mentioned?

jana 11-12-2010 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brita (Post 126574)
It's Future Aviendha, disguising herself and returning to the past by some ter'angriel means. The mannerisms are familiar because it is Avhienda herself returned from the future to warn her younger self a crucial junction.

Just a crazy idea to throw into the mix. Or is that the Marty McFly theory already mentioned?

Not so crazy, IMO. It's my 2nd favorite idea so far (behind Verin).

Uno 11-12-2010 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jana (Post 126576)
Not so crazy, IMO. It's my 2nd favorite idea so far (behind Verin).

You do know, of course, that Verin is theorized to be Mat's daughter from the future?

jana 11-12-2010 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uno (Post 126608)
You do know, of course, that Verin is theorized to be Mat's daughter from the future?

THAT MAKES SO MUCH NOT SENSE THAT I TYPE IN CAPS TOWARD YOU

Terez 11-12-2010 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jana (Post 126576)
Not so crazy, IMO. It's my 2nd favorite idea so far (behind Verin).

My 2nd favorite idea behind Verin is that it's the ghost of Aviendha's grandmother. Fits a few details, especially this, and the deepearth roots, though you wouldn't think Aviendha could eat ghost food.

Quote:

THAT MAKES SO MUCH NOT SENSE THAT I TYPE IN CAPS TOWARD YOU
See, you should have been a Theorylander all along.

jana 11-12-2010 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terez (Post 126627)
though you wouldn't think Aviendha could eat ghost food.

It was probably an alien, from the planet the AOL'ers found with Travelling. They mostly moved there to make the food more succulent. Mouth-wateringly good. Scrumdiddlyumptuous. If I was writing the Finn stuff, I definitely would have used scrumdiddlyumptuous to discribe Moiraine and the bracelet. I really don't know what the author(s) were thinking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terez (Post 126627)
See, you should have been a Theorylander all along.

But back in the day I needed a bigger pool of fellow-hyper-people to tolerate my idiotic posts.

Terez 11-12-2010 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jana (Post 126629)
But back in the day I needed a bigger pool of fellow-hyper-people to tolerate my idiotic posts.

And they say size doesn't matter.

Brita 11-12-2010 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terez (Post 126627)
My 2nd favorite idea behind Verin is that it's the ghost of Aviendha's grandmother. Fits a few details, especially this, and the deepearth roots, though you wouldn't think Aviendha could eat ghost food.

I like this one as well. The deepearth roots from Avhienda's childhood seems to be a big, flashing clue to me, which makes me think it is someone very familiar to her, and more importantly: familial.

Davian93 11-12-2010 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brita (Post 126574)
It's Future Aviendha, disguising herself and returning to the past by some ter'angriel means. The mannerisms are familiar because it is Avhienda herself returned from the future to warn her younger self at a crucial junction.

Just a crazy idea to throw into the mix. Or is that the Marty McFly theory already mentioned?

It has been but its a little shaky.

Davian93 11-12-2010 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brita (Post 126773)
I like this one as well. The deepearth roots from Avhienda's childhood seems to be a big, flashing clue to me, which makes me think it is someone very familiar to her, and more importantly: familial.

Or a dream of some sort as they were done way too quickly in Avi's opinion. The whole thing smells like a TAR event of some sort.

Brita 11-12-2010 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davian93 (Post 126775)
Or a dream of some sort as they were done way too quickly in Avi's opinion. The whole thing smells like a TAR event of some sort.

But Avi's clothes don't shift at all, and she is not that experienced in TAR is she? And especially if she doesn't even realize she is in a dream.

Davian93 11-12-2010 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brita (Post 126777)
But Avi's clothes don't shift at all, and she is not that experienced in TAR is she? And especially if she doesn't even realize she is in a dream.

Yeah, that is true. The whole scene reads weird though. The food being done so quickly, Nakomi disappearing when she goes to make water, Nakomi's packs disappearing as well. Something odd is happening there.

Jonai 11-12-2010 09:55 AM

Many fine and compelling theories in this thread. It comes down to this though. Verin is black, brown, and PURPLE, and purples can do anything. *nods*

Tamyrlin 11-12-2010 10:06 AM

Not TAR - It's appears to be a dream
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brita (Post 126777)
But Avi's clothes don't shift at all, and she is not that experienced in TAR is she? And especially if she doesn't even realize she is in a dream.

It appears someone is asserting some control over Aviendha's dream (which is very difficult but not impossible from what I recall of Lanfear entering Rand's dreams) or Aviendha has been pulled into another's dream.

At least, those are the two possibilities if Aviendha has fallen asleep. Someone else mentioned this could be a Blood Vision (but the Blood Vision concept feels loony at this point.)

Davian93 11-12-2010 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tamyrlin (Post 126792)
It appears someone is asserting some control over Aviendha's dream (which is very difficult but not impossible from what I recall of Lanfear entering Rand's dreams) or Aviendha has been pulled into another's dream.

At least, those are the two possibilities if Aviendha has fallen asleep. Someone else mentioned this could be a Blood Vision (but the Blood Vision concept feels loony at this point.)

Maybe she accidentally ingested some peyote...


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