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-   -   The Faces of Nakomi (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=4439)

Enheduanna 11-12-2010 09:34 AM

Tinker Stew
 
[QUOTE=jana;126629]It was probably an alien, from the planet the AOL'ers found with Travelling. They mostly moved there to make the food more succulent. Mouth-wateringly good. Scrumdiddlyumptuous. If I was writing the Finn stuff, I definitely would have used scrumdiddlyumptuous to discribe Moiraine and the bracelet. I really don't know what the author(s) were thinking.


That could be a description of the Tinker stew Nalaam was talking about. Maybe the AOL Aiel were Aliens with superior food technology, and that was why they had the covenant and the way of the leaf. :D

Jonai 11-12-2010 09:36 AM

way of the beef maybe

Enheduanna 11-12-2010 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonai (Post 126806)
way of the beef maybe

lol, probably; way of the tofu not so much

Crispin's Crispian 11-12-2010 11:04 AM

The other option I'm considering is that it's just a dream. Nakomi isn't real, just part of a dream.

People have dreams all the time that deal with big questions they are pondering. Does Nakomi have to be someone that exists outside of Aviendha's subconscious?

Zore 11-12-2010 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crispin's Crispian (Post 126841)
The other option I'm considering is that it's just a dream. Nakomi isn't real, just part of a dream.

People have dreams all the time that deal with big questions they are pondering. Does Nakomi have to be someone that exists outside of Aviendha's subconscious?

This is possible, but even if Nakomi was part of a dream I doubt it was Aviendha's dream. The world was far too consistent and ordered, the conversation too logical and subtle for Aviendha's mind. I could see it with someone with greater experience in controlling and manipulating dreams, but compare it to the glimpses we get of other people's dreams. They are disjointed and illogical, often only half remembered unless there is a channeler or someone else in there too.

Davian93 11-12-2010 11:15 AM

Perhaps it was a PLE type event...if that's the case, none of the standard rules apply.

Crispin's Crispian 11-12-2010 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davian93 (Post 126847)
Perhaps it was a PLE type event...if that's the case, none of the standard rules apply.

PLEase no. Seriously...if the final sooper-awesome scene requires a PLE to explain it, I'm renouncing my love of WoT.

Jonai 11-12-2010 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crispin's Crispian (Post 126852)
PLEase no. Seriously...if the final sooper-awesome scene requires a PLE to explain it, I'm renouncing my love of WoT.

That would be unamerican.

Tamyrlin 11-12-2010 11:34 AM

Yeah - Don't see that being the case
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Crispin's Crispian (Post 126852)
PLEase no. Seriously...if the final sooper-awesome scene requires a PLE to explain it, I'm renouncing my love of WoT.

Nakomi being a PLE, nah. The Wheel seems to be able to bend the rules that are applied, but creating a new person, like the machine talking to Neo, I don't think that would qualify as a PLE.

However, certainly it's plausible, consider the fraying of the Pattern, the merging of worlds, etc., for the Wheel to use the destruction of the Pattern to merge worlds in this moment, such as a Mirror World similar to our own, where Nakomi is a "ghost" and we are seeing the merging of worlds here either in the real world or Aviendha's dream. That being said, this moment feels very specific, very purposeful, so I don't give the ghost concept too much plausibility.

Crispin's Crispian 11-12-2010 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tamyrlin (Post 126855)
However, certainly it's plausible, consider the fraying of the Pattern, the merging of worlds, etc., for the Wheel to use the destruction of the Pattern to merge worlds in this moment, such as a Mirror World similar to our own, where Nakomi is a "ghost" and we are seeing the merging of worlds here either in the real world or Aviendha's dream. That being said, this moment feels very specific, very purposeful, so I don't give the ghost concept too much plausibility.

That seems like a really convoluted solution, doesn't it?

"Nakomi, who are you?"

The woman furrowed her brow further, as if hesitating. "I am the product of a complicated probability matrix generated by the Wheel of Time in the form of mirror worlds. I am not actually a person, but rather the manifestation of your consciousness as it searches for an answer to your questions. I appear here because your subconscious exploited the weakness in the Pattern to access the matrix for its own ends."

Aviendha nodded thoughtfully.

Jonai 11-12-2010 12:05 PM

Sounds like Xenosaga.

Tamyrlin 11-12-2010 12:07 PM

Lol
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Crispin's Crispian (Post 126867)
That seems like a really convoluted solution, doesn't it?

"Nakomi, who are you?"

The woman furrowed her brow further, as if hesitating. "I am the product of a complicated probability matrix generated by the Wheel of Time in the form of mirror worlds. I am not actually a person, but rather the manifestation of your consciousness as it searches for an answer to your questions. I appear here because your subconscious exploited the weakness in the Pattern to access the matrix for its own ends."

Aviendha nodded thoughtfully.

I don't find "ghosts" to be a convoluted solution, considering Egwene remarks about TAR merging with TAR Mirror, along with the other "ghost" sightings in the real world. However, I do find the idea of a ghost lacks plausibility. It's a possible, not probable situation, but still enjoyable to contemplate.

Davian93 11-12-2010 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tamyrlin (Post 126876)
I don't find "ghosts" to be a convoluted solution, considering Egwene remarks about TAR merging with TAR Mirror, along with the other "ghost" sightings in the real world. However, I do find the idea of a ghost lacks plausibility. It's a possible, not probable situation, but still enjoyable to contemplate.

Has a ghost EVER interacted with someone before in the course of the story? (Not counting the Heroes in TAR) I'm thinking No. The characters have merely seen the ghosts, not had them talk to them.

That's a strike against it in my book.

FelixPax 11-12-2010 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davian93 (Post 126882)
Has a ghost EVER interacted with someone before in the course of the story? (Not counting the Heroes in TAR) I'm thinking No. The characters have merely seen the ghosts, not had them talk to them.

So Harbor.
Directly Implied.
See CoT, Chapter 26 'In So Harbor' - Perrin point of view

Crispin's Crispian 11-12-2010 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FelixPax (Post 127026)
So Harbor.
Directly Implied.
See CoT, Chapter 26 'In So Harbor' - Perrin point of view

That's one.

In Aviendha's case it would be an extraordinary coincidence that the ghost happens to appear right there, by her fire, and happens to want to talk about the VERY thing Aviendha is thinking about.

Nei 11-14-2010 01:09 AM

I think we're missing the obvious here.

Nakomi = Bela

Think about it. Aiel don't really like horses, so the only way Bela could convince Aviendha of her wisdom was to take human form.

SaintChristobel 11-14-2010 07:16 PM

Maybe it's just because I watch Supernatural, but I initially thought that Nakomi was the Creator in disguise (SPOILERS: like Chuck in Supernatural)

Caveatar 11-14-2010 07:37 PM

Nakomi cooks like Aviendha's Mother
 
Nakomi cooks like Aviendha's Mother did.
Maybe Nakomi is Aviendha's granny/grandma/secondmother or wthever she calls her maternal grandma.
Face vaguely familiar.
Mom learned cooking from grandma.
Grandma may still be alive and coming into Avi's dreams.
She is 'far from her hold' or maybe it is 'far from her'.
Grandma would certainly know about Aiel.
She would easily call her granddaughter 'child'. WTH, my mother called me that when I was well over 50 years old. Not unusual for a parent or grandparent to do.

Ayende 11-15-2010 08:24 PM

Nokomis = Nakomi
 
I know that Nokomis was already briefly mentioned in this thread, but the wikipedia article really doesn't do her justice. It is also missing some relevant information.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ojibwe lore
When the first man was walking the earth, he saw many things that he did not understand so he asked the Creator to answer his questions. The Creator told him to go to Nokomis, his grandmother. "She is not from the world you have walked; she has the wisdom of spirits. Go to her lodge, for it is the elders who carry the knowledge of these things that you want to know."

The first man went through quite a journey to get to her that involved inventing the canoe, but I don't want to go too far afield here... When he got to her abode, Nokomis welcomed him, fed him, and bade him to rest. The first man spent many seasons with her and during this time she answered his questions to the best of her ability. After a time, she sent him on a journey that would be "hard and full of many tests."


MathGrove 11-15-2010 11:03 PM

Verin as Hero
 
At first, I was resistant to the Verin as Nakomi theory, but as I think (overthink?) about it, there is something here.

Verin dies and because of her heroic act of self-sacrifice becomes a Hero of the Horn. Therefore, the Pattern grabs her and throws her in TAR before the DO gets a hold of her.

Being a Hero in TAR, she has several rules placed on her conduct. She can't answer Avi's question about what sept she belongs to, perhaps. Conveniently, if Avi knew she was in TAR, Nakomi wouldn't be allowed to talk to her.

Finding herself with some general autonomy, Verin picks back up on her mission to discover what she can about the DO. We know she is skilled at finding subtle ways to thwart the DO, and her advice to Avienda may be just that.

Of course, this only works if the timelines have Verin dead when Avienda is on her way to the columns. Does anyone know for sure?


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