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Weird Harold 12-08-2010 08:45 PM

My first thought was Nakomi was Cyndane/Lanfear.

My second thought is that the name Nakomi was very familiar as a name from folklore. Google led me to Nokomis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayende (Post 128114)
I know that Nokomis was already briefly mentioned in this thread, but the wikipedia article really doesn't do her justice. It is also missing some relevant information.

Interesting, but I think not relevant except as a red herring. The next logical step from a page that asserts "Nokomis was the grandmother of Hiawatha" is longfellow's poem:

Quote:

By the shores of Gitche Gumee,
By the shining Big-Sea-Water,
Stood the wigwam of Nokomis,
Daughter of the Moon, Nokomis.
Dark behind it rose the forest,
Rose the black and gloomy pine-trees,
Rose the firs with cones upon them;
Bright before it beat the water,
Beat the clear and sunny water,
Beat the shining Big-Sea-Water.
...
And "Daughter of the Moon" leads me right back to my very first thought -- Lanfear. Nakomi bears a strong resemblance to Sylvie who offered Egwene unsolicited philosophy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davian93 (Post 126779)
Yeah, that is true. The whole scene reads weird though. The food being done so quickly, Nakomi disappearing when she goes to make water, Nakomi's packs disappearing as well. Something odd is happening there.

I'd have to check the timeline to see if Greandal was not otherwise occuppied, but this suggests Greandal borrowing tricks from Lanfear and Moghedien and combining the kindly grandmother disguise with the "just a touch of compulsion to steer the conversation" to plant a subtle opposition to the Dragon's Peace in someone close to Rand.

Greandal would of course, prefer to do her tampering in the real world where her skill as a mind-healer is strongest, rather than T'A'R where she's less competent.

The sudden changes/time-lapses in the scene aren't sudden at all, they're just the results of periods Aviendha wasn't paying attention to her surroundings, but was paying close attentention to Nakomi's Svengali Routine.

This would possibly explain the sudden change in function of the Crystal Columns -- Aviendha didn't go through them a second time, she just brought up the implanted memories Nakomi left to simulate a second trip through the Columns.

The technique is Lanfear's but the style is Greandal at her "kindly doctor" best.

SauceyBlueConfetti 12-09-2010 11:03 AM

Like it, like it, like it.

You mentioned this in another thread, but I like this clearer explanation.

I am not convinced Cyndane/Lanfear/Mierin is truly being tormented by Moridin to the point of Rand's concerns...lots of intrigue still left from this minx.

It returns me to Frenzy's disappointment in Moiraine's return...such a strong female character becoming all moony-eyed and
willing to give up the power for Thom made me throw up my hands a bit. I would be equally disappointed in Lanfear (or, the Bitch, as I like to think of her) turning into a whiny crying wench who can find no way to manipulate her situation to her own benefit. She is willing to be WITH Lews Therin at any cost...and if that means working with Moridin through to the end, I would find it hard to believe she would not try. She also hates Avi with a passion...she was unsure WHICH girl he had been sleeping with when she began her screaming fits at the docks. Manipulating Rand THROUGH Aviendha seems much more like her.

Terez 12-09-2010 12:09 PM

I agree that the Lanfear theory makes sense, but I'm resistant to the idea that Lanfear is going to betray the Dark.

GonzoTheGreat 12-09-2010 12:15 PM

So now that Lanfear no longer has killed Asmodean, she's started manipulating Aviendha? Why didn't she just kill her, though?
That would hurt Rand, badly, which is what Moridin wants. And it would get Aviendha dead, which is what Lanfear wants. A clear win for all.

Weird Harold 12-09-2010 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terez (Post 134763)
I agree that the Lanfear theory makes sense, but I'm resistant to the idea that Lanfear is going to betray the Dark.

How is showing Aviendha a false future built to from aviendha's worst fears to encourage her to oppose The Dragon's Peace "Betraying theDark?"

The whole point to "Svengali Nakomi" is that the futures weren't shown by the Columns, the whole second trip through the columns was a "jedi mind trick" (for those who don't get the Svengali allusion) intended to trick Aviendha into working for the Dark instead of for the light.

Weird Harold 12-09-2010 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat (Post 134766)
So now that Lanfear no longer has killed Asmodean, she's started manipulating Aviendha? Why didn't she just kill her, though?
That would hurt Rand, badly, which is what Moridin wants. And it would get Aviendha dead, which is what Lanfear wants. A clear win for all.

Which is why Greandal is actually a more likely candidate for Svengali Nakomi.

At this point, killing Aviendha wouldn't hurt Rand nearly as much as having her actively oppose his plan to bring peace to the world -- which is a very Moridin kind of subtle. Since Moridin holds Cyndane's mindtrap, his kind of subtlety gets priority over Lanfear's Psycho Cheerleader routine.

Icarium 12-09-2010 03:41 PM

I really don't get why people think Nakomi is evil. It's not as if the notion that Aiel need to find a new identity is false, nor the notion that a Dragon's Peace which doesn't include the Aiel is a recipe for disaster. What does the Shadow have to gain from such an extremely convoluted plan? Unless the idea is that Aviendha's children will be so powerful that they better not be born at all but in this case why not just kill Aviendha?

Personally I think Nakomi was merely a representation of Aviendha's doubts who appeared in her sleep. She doesn't really tell Avi anything she doesn't already know or suspect, IIRC.

Silvertip 12-09-2010 04:08 PM

Me confused.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Weird Harold (Post 134635)
This would possibly explain the sudden change in function of the Crystal Columns -- Aviendha didn't go through them a second time, she just brought up the implanted memories Nakomi left to simulate a second trip through the Columns.

Not sure I buy this. It seems inconsistent with RJ's writing. We have certainly had POVs in which the character interprets what's happening incorrectly, but I can't recall one that represents some sort of false memory that never actually occurred in linear time. (Would be glad to be reminded of one if I'm wrong). That would be uncharacteristically postmodern for the series, IMHO.

Svengali Nakomi is an interesting idea though. What bugs me the most about this scene is that, despite some very dreamlike aspects of the action, it clearly can't be taking place in T'A'R or Aviendha's dream since the shellback (tortoise?) that Aviendha caught in the real world is consumed. Had it suddenly been anything other than a carcass when she woke up in the morning, presumably it would have been noted. Subtle mental manipulation in the waking world would resolve this. It makes Aviendha seem pretty incompetent not to cotton on to what's happening, though. And why wouldn't Svengali Nakomi make the events as realistic as possible, instead of food cooking too fast, etc.?

All things considered, I still like having Nakomi be, in some fashion, part of the induction experience that is implemented by the Wise Ones. There are definitely problems with this idea too, however.

S

EDIT: Spelling error (sorry Avi)

Weird Harold 12-09-2010 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icarium (Post 134801)
I really don't get why people think Nakomi is evil.

I don't get why people take Nakomi at face value when there is so much odd about the whole incident. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icarium (Post 134801)
Personally I think Nakomi was merely a representation of Aviendha's doubts who appeared in her sleep. She doesn't really tell Avi anything she doesn't already know or suspect, IIRC.

It is exceedingly suspicious that Nakomi told her exactly what Aviendha knew or suspected after suspicious timelapses which would cover sufficient time for Nakomi to interrogate her and determine what fears and suspicions were there to enhance.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvertip (Post 134810)
Not sure I buy this. It seems inconsistent with RJ's writing.

Aviendha's second trip through the Crystal Colomns isn't consistent with RJ writing either. Svengali Nakomi is as much about explaining THAT anomaly as it is about explaining the gaps in the scene Nakomi is actually in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvertip (Post 134810)
We have certainly had POVs in which the character interprets what's happening incorrectly, but I can't recall one that represents some sort of false memory that never actually occurred in linear time.

Brandon isn't as good at hiding when false/misleading impressions/perceptions are being filtered through the character's POV as RJ was. Almost everyone found the scene with Nakomi odd, but explain the oddness(es) differently.

However, RJ did occasionally show us the same scene through different character's eyes with subtle differences; what would this scene look like through Nakomi's eyes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvertip (Post 134810)
It makes Aviendha seem pretty incompetent not to cotton on to what's happening, though. And why wouldn't Svengali Nakomi make the events as realistic as possible, instead of food cooking too fast, etc.?

The inconsistencies are, I think, consistent with the kind of things that would pass unnoticed in T'A'R -- perhaps a habit of working in T'A'R rather than in the Waking World led Nakomi to miss the inconsistencies that may eventually expose the tampering.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvertip (Post 134810)
All things considered, I still like having Nakomi be, in some fashion, part of the induction experience that is implemented by the Wise Ones. There are definitely problems with this idea too, however.

In a way, Svengali Nakomi IS a part of the induction process -- just not one that the Wise Ones are party to or supposed to become aware of. :D Both possibilities assume that Nakomi is connected to the Crystal Columns Experience (tm) in some way.

Glen 12-09-2010 11:07 PM

I think almost all of the theories so far have been too convoluted, requiring too many leaps of logic.

Here's the real test of it: can it be revealed in a reasonable manner? How would RJ/BS reveal who Nakomi was, if each theory was correct?

For instance, how would they reveal that Nakomi was really an Aes Sedai from the AoL? I'm not sure how they could really do that in any sensible manner.

"It was Lanfear, being directed by Moridin, in an effort to make Aviendha unknowingly work for the Shadow to cause problems after the Last Battle" is far too implausible (they're fighting to win the last battle, and Aviendha's experiences are regarding what comes after). Not only that, though, it is also unlikely that this could be revealed in aMoL in any reasonable manner.

Nakomi as one of the Wise Ones with Rand is inconsistent with their general behaviour. They wouldn't go and pretend to be a non-Wise One, breaking tradition in the process (tradition being that the apprentice speaks to nobody on the way), in order to ask her questions that they could have asked by other means. And there'd be no reason for any of them to talk about it again. So I don't see how it would be revealed.

Verin can't really reveal herself to have been Nakomi, either - she's dead, all the other timelines are definitely beyond her time of death, and there's really nobody who could confirm that she was Nakomi.

In the absence of any strong connection between them, I do not believe that RJ/BS would just leave it dangling. That is, RJ/BS might not want people to be certain who Nakomi is, but there should be obvious markers that strongly imply it; failing this, I see some sort of revelation at some point.

Jenn Aiel is the one already-mentioned possibility that seems plausible, to me. The Jenn Aiel apparently died out... but how do we know that this truly happened? If they do still live, they'll make an appearance before or just after the last battle, and if Nakomi was a Jenn Aiel, then she'd likely be amongst them. Thus, her identity could reasonably be unveiled in this case. Furthermore, the Jenn Aiel have both the motive and the knowledge necessary to explain the event.

The Jenn Aiel definitely have a reason to want the Aiel to return to the Way of the Leaf after the Last Battle, they would know Aiel ways and terminology, and they would have knowledge of what is to come, enough that they would want to intervene.

As I recall, the Jenn Aiel made some pact with the wise ones and clan chiefs that required them to go to Rhuidean, did they not? And then they just disappeared (they were basically never seen again), if I remember it correctly.

Here's an interesting thought - Rhuidean was covered in a kind of fog. That fog didn't dissipate until tSR. When did it first form? Why? What if the big secret is that Rhuidean had essentially been put into a kind of bubble, designed to make time move far more slowly inside than outside. It would explain why Rhuidean couldn't be entered from T'A'R, why it was clouded in fog in the first place, and where Nakomi came from - perhaps a few of the Jenn Aiel remained in Rhuidean, essentially hiding and waiting for the day that Rhuidean would be released from its bubble (known through either the future-possibilities Ter'angreal or prophecy), which is when they would need to begin their work again.

My point is, this is, from what I can see, the only explanation that does not require massive jumping through hoops, and has the added benefit of also tying in another mystery (the reason for Rhuidean's fog). But I suspect that even this one is overly complicated.


Allow me to demonstrate another theory, that I don't actually believe to be true, but could be twisted to fit this. Nakomi = Aran'gar. Think about it - Nakomi seems to do things that might be associated with channelling, but Aviendha can't detect the ability to channel. If Nakomi could channel Saidin, this would explain why. Furthermore, the timing of Nakomi's visit is very close to the timing of Aran'gar's balefiring. What if the reason why Nakomi says she'll be right back, and then disappears, is because Aran'gar's thread was burned back to around that moment? Indeed, maybe the reason for the seeming inconsistencies, such as the amount of coals and the speed of cooking, etc, is due to the pattern trying to adapt to the balefire effect.

As I said, I don't actually believe it - it's convoluted and difficult to reveal, and lacks in such things as motives and necessary knowledge. But it's as plausible as most of the other theories I've seen put forward.

Weird Harold 12-10-2010 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glen (Post 134859)
Here's the real test of it: can it be revealed in a reasonable manner? How would RJ/BS reveal who Nakomi was, if each theory was correct?

The flaw in your logic is named Sylvie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Encyclopedia WOT; tDR Ch 27 precis
Egwene is in a great hall of redstone columns. There is a crystal sword floating in the center. An ugly old woman identifies herself as Silvie and says she served Egwene's family for years. She tells Egwene they are in the Heart of the Stone in Tear. It is full of answers and secrets. She says they all pretend to serve the Great Lord while plotting their own agendas. She says Ishamael is a fool, shocking Egwene. Egwene asks about the sword and Silvie identifies it as Callandor. ...

The identification of Silvie as Lanfear is entirely based on this ONE appearance. There is no more evidence that Silvie is Lanfear than that she is Rand in Disguise come back from the future -- well, maybe a little more. :D No "grand reveal" has ever been staged for Silvie, nor does there really need to be. Silvie could be Lanfear, Greandal, Moghedien, Mesaana, or a figment of Egwene's Imagination brought to life by T'A'R. Basically the same sort of options we have for Nakomi.

morat'corlm 12-10-2010 01:58 AM

There is ample evidence that Silvie is, at the least, one of the Forsaken.
Quote:

“Plots,” she said as if to herself. “All of them pretending to serve the Great Lord, and all the while plotting and planning to regain what they lost. Each one thinking he or she is the only one plotting. Ishamael is a fool!”
Quote:

“The Sword That Is Not a Sword, though there’s precious few knows what it is. But none can touch it save one. They saw to that, who put it here. The Dragon Reborn will hold Callandor one day, and prove to the world he’s the Dragon by doing it. The first proof, anyway. Lews Therin come back for all the world to see, and grovel before.
Quote:

“He’s coming to stare at it again,” she muttered. “Awake or asleep, he wants . . . ”
What we have to deduce Nakomi's identity or allegience is far more tenuous, just supposition based on motive assumed from results.

Weird Harold 12-10-2010 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morat'corlm (Post 134870)
There is ample evidence that Silvie is, at the least, one of the Forsaken.

What we have to deduce Nakomi's identity or allegience is far more tenuous, just supposition based on motive assumed from results.

Verin knew everything that Silvie said, and Verin wasn't a Forsaken. Any of an unknown number of BA or DFs could have posed as Silvie in T'A'R.

I will grant that there is more evidence that Silvie was at least a DF than there is for Nakomi, but that's about it.

FelixPax 12-10-2010 06:04 AM

Nakomi is one of "The People". Silvie is to Mierin, as Nuli is to Rand
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Weird Harold (Post 134867)
The flaw in your logic is named Sylvie.



The identification of Silvie as Lanfear is entirely based on this ONE appearance. There is no more evidence that Silvie is Lanfear than that she is Rand in Disguise come back from the future -- well, maybe a little more. :D


Bah! Silvie was Robert Jordan's take on various 'Sleeping Beauty', 'Cinderalla' stories known as 'Baba Yaga' in Russian Mythology. Silvie is Lanfear becoming the illusion of an 'old woman', corresponds to many of the Baba Yaga tales.

One has to look at the whole context of Lanfear's character, to see that Silvie is not an outlier for who Mierin is as a modern re-telling of Baba Yaga, along with 'multiple other sources'. One chapter of Silvie is enough.




Quote:

Originally Posted by Weird Harold (Post 134867)
No "grand reveal" has ever been staged for Silvie, nor does there really need to be. Silvie could be Lanfear, Greandal, Moghedien, Mesaana, or a figment of Egwene's Imagination brought to life by T'A'R. Basically the same sort of options we have for Nakomi.

No "grand reveal" is really needed? Ha!

Mierin and Rand conflict riddled love-story, is one of the main themes of this whole darn series! Mierin's role as Silvie, is just as important as Rand's role as Nuli! :p

Similarly, Rand's identification as one character in the role of the mythological 'Perun', is parallel to Mierin's identification as 'Perunika' or 'Veronika'--"bringer of victory". Absolutely, Mierin & Rand are character parallels of Perun & Perunika. Who's Moridin then? Volos. Moridin has a thing for cows, not women. :eek: While Mierin and Rand each have the hot's for each other!

Mierin and Rand umm lover conflicts... are perhaps Jordan's way to shining a light to Charleston's own literary ties to that ever famous 70's era bodice ripper, called "The Flame and the Flower". :eek: Of course, Jordan only mentions Jane Austen in interviews... yet the sheer frequency of bosom references is of another era. ;)
Side Note: In a few other languages, Perunika is referred as: Veronika (Russian), Berenike (Greek), Pherenike (Greek), Veronica (Latin form of Macedonian Greek).


No "grand reveal" is needed, for the Aiel & Nakomi? Ha!

Epic conflicts have been created, yet one reader desires no resolution? :rolleyes:


So who the heck does Nakomi represent?

Aiel who have sought a new purpose: love, not war.
It's a well worn cliche.


From the Wise One's perspective as of TSR book, Nakomi would be considered as being one of those who is a part of the 'Bleakness'. She has no Sept, no Clan. Perhaps Nakomi once was a Maiden of the Spear, like Aviendha and Amys each once were. In any case, Nakomi belongs to what once was, and shall come again: the Da'Shain Aiel.

Nakomi is part of "The People".

Who is to lead "The People", of who should include Nakomi?
  • Mat Cauthon, as "The People" are his "People" too! :D
  • Post-AMoL Rand's outing to be out of the public eye... on a farm in 'Never-Never Land'.

If Nakomi is represents aspects of the Aiel Clans future, who might do the same for "The People of the Sea"--the Sea Folk Clans, Lines?

Harine? Shalon? Renaile din Calon? Talaan? Raab?
Or perhaps one of the many prior Sea Folk characters with Bayle Domon or Valan Luca found earlier in the series?

looqas 12-10-2010 06:41 AM

How about it's Amys using power camo? Inverted weaves and all that shit.

Just piggybacking the suggestion that all this is Wise Ones' rigged gig. Some secret Borderlander-esque own prophecy/foretelling akin to

Quote:

"One is chosen. One must change the Way of the Spear, wedded to spear herself, or the Children of the Dragon will lie in ruins and are consumed by the Towers of Midnight."
Maybe Amys and other WOs have gone through the crystals themselves one time too many.

FelixPax 12-10-2010 07:07 AM

Nakomi is not Amys, and Why.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by looqas (Post 134896)
How about it's Amys using power camo? Inverted weaves and all that shit.

Just piggybacking the suggestion that all this is Wise Ones' rigged gig.


Problem: Amys and the Wise Ones, all belong to Clans & Septs (TSR to TofM books). While Nakomi implies she does not belong to any Clans and Sept, now.

Amys wants to fight the Seanchan Empire, in the future, over the issue of using an a'dam upon Wise Ones (TGS book). A Blood Feud. Nakomi on the other hand, refers to confession by Rand al'Thor revealing past of the Aiel Clans, being Da'Shain Aiel.

Amys and Nakomi are in totally different mental worlds, as of TGS & TofM books.

Glen 12-10-2010 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weird Harold (Post 134867)
The flaw in your logic is named Sylvie.



The identification of Silvie as Lanfear is entirely based on this ONE appearance. There is no more evidence that Silvie is Lanfear than that she is Rand in Disguise come back from the future -- well, maybe a little more. :D No "grand reveal" has ever been staged for Silvie, nor does there really need to be. Silvie could be Lanfear, Greandal, Moghedien, Mesaana, or a figment of Egwene's Imagination brought to life by T'A'R. Basically the same sort of options we have for Nakomi.

That is not a flaw in my logic, it's pretty much a demonstration of my logic in action.

Do we actually know that Silvie was Lanfear? There are three possibilities, if we do - Silvie was confirmed to be Lanfear by RJ, Silvie's appearance chapter makes it obvious, or Silvie has been confirmed through later content.

I can't see any evidence that RJ confirmed it. This leaves the other two cases - either it's obvious from the chapter in which Silvie appears, or there is some revelation later on. The final possibility, of course, is that we DON'T know that Silvie was Lanfear, but rather, that it's assumed popularly despite not being confirmed.

As Weird Harold pointed out, it's plausible that Verin was Silvie in some ways. But why do people generally not accept this? The hoops involved, of course. Verin doesn't seem to be an expert at T'A'R in any sense, but Silvie doesn't show any amateur behaviour - therefore, Verin would have to know a lot more than she lets on, and have a way into T'A'R. She has also died without revealing her identity, and there's really no way for her to be revealed as Silvie at this point. We can be fairly confident, as such, that Verin was not Silvie.

It is not so much that there has to be a revelation to each of them, but that there must be one if direct evidence is insufficient - that is, if we must apply extensive speculation without any corroborating evidence. In order for Verin to be Nakomi, she must know more about the Aiel than she seemed to, she must know that Aviendha is heading to Rhuidean, and how, and she must have a number of abilities that she hasn't shown before. None of these have any supporting evidence. And since there's no way for Verin to now reveal herself as Nakomi, it is unlikely that Verin was Nakomi. Short of a statement by Brandon, we lack sufficient evidence to support such a theory.

Similarly, theories relying on complicated concepts like "it was an Aes Sedai from the AoL who was hiding in a vacuole", with no evidence to support this, are flawed, too. And while this one does have the potential to be confirmed within the story, it is unlikely, and would probably be regarded as a weak element to the story.

On the other hand, the idea that it was a Jenn Aiel, and that her survival is tied to the fog over Rhuidean, provides some supporting evidence, a mechanism that is lacking in other versions of the concept (how does she know when to come out of the vacuole?), and a reasonable in-story explanation that can be revealed quite neatly. It isn't a complete explanation on its own (the oddities such as the amount of coals, etc, are unexplained), but it passes muster as a plausible theory and a confirmable one (that is, it can be confirmed within the story).

It can be fun to speculate more wildly, to come up with explanations that are lots of fun and very creative. But if you're trying to solve the mystery, outlandish theories need to be recognised for what they are, as do theories that are unlikely to be confirmed.

FelixPax 12-10-2010 12:36 PM

Nakomi represents what is to come again: Da'Shain Aiel.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Glen (Post 134929)
On the other hand, the idea that it was a Jenn Aiel, and that her survival is tied to the fog over Rhuidean, provides some supporting evidence, a mechanism that is lacking in other versions of the concept (how does she know when to come out of the vacuole?), and a reasonable in-story explanation that can be revealed quite neatly. It isn't a complete explanation on its own (the oddities such as the amount of coals, etc, are unexplained), but it passes muster as a plausible theory and a confirmable one (that is, it can be confirmed within the story).

It can be fun to speculate more wildly, to come up with explanations that are lots of fun and very creative. But if you're trying to solve the mystery, outlandish theories need to be recognised for what they are, as do theories that are unlikely to be confirmed.

Nakomi lived in a vacuole? Umm... No, thank you.


What did the Aelfinn say, again, to Mat Cauthon? About his Fate?

Quote:

.. and live once more a part of what was!”

The Shadow Rising, Chapter 15 "Into the Doorway" - Mat Cauthon point of view
What once was, is Jenn Aiel, the Da'Shain Aiel, "The People", who once lived in Rhuidean with Aes Sedai. Yes, "The People" absolutely include the Sea Folk Clans, as "The People of the Sea" (Glossary definition)

Nakomi is part of the group, that is to come to live again: Da'Shain Aiel.
Led by no other than Mat Cauthon.

Rand al'Thor shall not 'save a remnant of a remnant', Mat Cauthon shall save a 'remnant of a remnant'. Rand's a Destroyer, Mat Cauthon is a bringer together!


What did Mat Cauthon, truly did to escape the attacking Aelfinn in TofM book? He focused on the Questions & Answers the Eelfinn gave him earlier. Thus, gaining a greater understanding of his future, his Fate....

Ladies & Gentlemen, It's Time for a Crazy Theory Blurb: A free man who dislikes the Power, Nobles and Aes Sedai, in the end ironically will become the savior of the Aes Sedai... to save them all... from the Seanchan... and the Shadow... by becoming the leader of the Aes Sedai.... imagine Nynaeve & Egwene washing Mat Cauthon feet? Lord General, King, and Savior Mat Cauthon. :eek:

Yes, that's an atypical theory... as it divides up the meaning one particular Jendai Prophecy:

Quote:

The White Tower shall be broken by his name, and Aes Sedai shall kneel to wash his feet and dry them with their hair."

The Shadow Rising, Chapter 19
One is a Name, which Mat Cauthon shall inherit "Dragon"; Second is an Action, which Nynaeve, Egwene and the Hall shall have to take survive.

The Tame Common Majority Theory, proclaims that Rand al'Thor shall have his Feet washed by Aes Sedai....

Who did Nynaeve dislike following more than any other woman or Aes Sedai? More than any common man? One Mat Cauthon.
And yet, Nynaeve has changed enough to do this very thing... to wash Mat Cauthon feet.

Why would they want to wash Mat Cauthon? To convince him to become leader of a body of women, when he wants absolutely nothing to do with the Power. Why would he want to lead a group of argumentative channeling women? To protect them from harm, as he's their only salvation--in this world.

Note: In Mat Cauthon's words all channelers are Aes Sedai (TGH), even Seanchan channelers, including his new wife: Fortuona.

This Crazy Theory parallels the "Prophecy of the Horn":

Quote:

“ ‘Let whosoever sounds me think not of glory, but only of salvation.’ ”

The Great Hunt, Chapter 5 "The Shadow in Shienar" -- Moiraine point of view



As for this line of questioning about Nakomi's special talents:

Quote:

the oddities such as the amount of coals, etc, are unexplained
Who was a smooth-cheeked old grandmother?
A Tuatha'an, named Ila.

Why are her smooth-cheeks important?
It directly implies Ila has channeled repeatedly, whether knowingly or not (e.g. Morgase; Nynaeve; Amys et la.).

Speculation: Perhaps, she has unique cooking talents... which Nakomi likely has picked up on, from either Ila or another group of Tuatha'an women whom Ila has taught previously? Ila is know for feeding a good stew, in hard times to many of our heroes and heroines--Elyas, Perrin, Egwene, Faile, and Two Rivers folks. Perhaps Verin to?
Robert Jordan used very few real common world names in WoT series, so to learn that Ila is a real world name suggests that she has a greater role yet to play.


Brandon Sanderson's own prior comments on Twitter in response to my Tweets, suggest as much, regarding Ila's name origins.



Again, why do I connect Nakomi to the Tuatha'an? To Ila Cooking?

The Bleakness.

A Bleakness which pushed and pulled roughly 25% of the individuals at the Golden Bowl to flee... some could not "accept" Rand's confession that the Aiel were not always 'warriors', those became the 'Brotherless'. While others could "accept" Rand's confession of the Aiel's Origins as Da'Shain Aiel, but could not accept continuing to 'break their oaths', those individuals went to live among the Tuatha'an... some of whom later fled to the Wetlands... as Rand later sees within Far Madding in Winter's Heart book.

Nakomi is an individual who represents, in a way of what is to come, a voice in the story, which has NOT yet been heard--until that is, Towers of Midnight book.


Robert Jordan saved Nakomi's perspective, for the ending days because its directly ties to resolution of the whole story. Jordan could have written of an individual like Nakomi earlier, however that would have given readers TOO MUCH information far too early.

Crispin's Crispian 12-10-2010 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felix
Ladies & Gentlemen, It's Time for a Crazy Theory Blurb

I rather think that ship has sailed, don't you, Captain?

Weird Harold 12-10-2010 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FelixPax (Post 134889)
Bah! Silvie was Robert Jordan's take on various 'Sleeping Beauty', 'Cinderalla' stories known as 'Baba Yaga' in Russian Mythology. Silvie is Lanfear becoming the illusion of an 'old woman', corresponds to many of the Baba Yaga tales.

No, Silvie was Somebody becoming the illusion of an 'old woman' ...

The identification of Silvie as Lanfear is entirely supposition.

The footnote at Encyclopedia WOT regarding the identification of Silvie says:

Quote:

The timing, her reference to the Great Lord, her comment about Ishamael, her knowledge of Egwene and her knowledge of the twisted ring make it near certain that Silvie is actually Lanfear. Also, see the discussion in the FAQ, Section 1.1.3
I disagree with the assertion of "near certain" but in the end, it doesn't matter who Silvie's real identity is -- any DF with a smidgeon of T'A'R training and clear instructions could have played the role.

That's really the Point about Svengali Nakomi -- it doesn't matter who she was, only what she did. The clues within the scene suggest she is responsible for Aviendha zoning out and losing track of time in at least four instances.


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