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Tamyrlin 11-03-2010 11:52 AM

The Faces of Nakomi
 
Linda and I were geeked out on this one day and threw out a bunch of possibilities, which can now be discussed openly. Feel free to discuss support or dispute all of them. Ever since that initial list, I've added the variety of ideas people have had as we've discussed her possible identity.

Nakomi as Wise One
I already pretty much made my initial case in this thread.

Nakomi as Verin
Terez made her case here: http://www.theoryland.com/theories.p...=144&theo=2771

Nakomi as Marty McFly - Future Aviendha
Time traveling...I don't like the idea, because it would be a lame deus ex machina with so many other viables options.

Nakomi as Ancestor/Ghost
Considering the ghosts and merging of Mirror Worlds, it is possible we are seeing a PLE where the Wheel is able to take advantage of the fraying of the Pattern and merging of Past/Present/Future to guide Aviendha.

Nakomi as Bubble of Good
We have seen Bubbles of Evil, so why not a Bubble of Good?

Nakomi as Lanfear or Other Forsaken
Considering Lanfear's love of the dramatic and her AoL knowledge of the Aiel, following Aviendha and messing with her mind before she goes to Rhuidean could add a more sinister meaning to what she decides. There is a Daughter of the Moon reference to the name Nokomis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokomis, which could apply to many of these ideas.

Nakomi as Dark Wise One
We haven't seen it, although it has been suggested most recently by Terez in her Sorilea is a Darkfriend. I'm not suggesting Nakomi is Sorilea. Instead, a Wise One unknown to us that knows of Aviendha's importance, maybe as a factor of Dark Prophecies and she was told to intervene.

Nakomi as Member of Jenn Aiel
Hidden group of Jenn Aiel meant to bring back The Way of the Leaf.

Nakomi as Rhuidean Aes Sedai from AoL
An Aes Sedai knowing she would be needed at the end of the Third Age, one with Foretelling or a Dreamer, has been living in a world where for every one year that passes twenty years in this world passes, waiting to return to help the Aiel find purpose after the Last Battle (ok, it's way out there, but had to mention it.)

Nakomi as Blood Vision / Vivid Dream
The name Nakomi is related to the concept of a grandmother. Aviendha remarks on how familiar the food is. Is it possible this is some kind of Blood Vision akin to Blood Memories?

Nakomi as Hero of the Horn
Hero breaks precepts and talks to Aviendha in T'A'R.

Nakomi as Mother Figure
Taken directly from Nokomis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokomis. Of course, this could mean that she is a "mother" figure, either literal or figurative.

Linda (and anyone else) am I missing any other ideas as to Nakomi's potential identity?

Davian93 11-03-2010 11:55 AM

Quote:

Nakomi as Marty McFly
Time traveling...I don't like the idea, because it would be a lame deus ex machina with so many other viables options.
That one seems shaky at best to me.


I'm leaning towards the Nakomi=Verin theory personally.

kcf 11-03-2010 12:29 PM

Honestly, I find the Nakomi as Verin to be rather ridiculous.

My initial feeling was that it was someone not friendly - most likely forsaken. But I'm not so sure now. My gut says it's more likely a ghost/spiritual type of visitation, but that really doesn't make much sence to me. In the end, I think it's a big open question.

Tamyrlin 11-03-2010 12:36 PM

It's Theoryland
 
Half of what we come up with is ridiculous. Although, I think Verin has a chance because of how long she has been working on all of this stuff. Plus, it's a fun idea. :)

Although, Nakomi as Wise Ones or Nakomi as Dark/Forsaken I think have the best shots at this point. I should go pull the text in for closer examination, as the text will have to pass the muster on all of these ideas.

No other options?

arioch 11-03-2010 01:07 PM

Jenn Aiel?

Nickel 11-03-2010 01:37 PM

Yup, that was my initial reaction as well, maybe the Jenn Aiel still exist somehow. Would also be really cool if they re-introduced the Way of the Leaf.

Does Verin know how to hide her ability to channel and all the disguise and inverted stuff? If not, this would rule her out.

Lanfear would rather kill Aviendha than mess with her I think...

Galagros 11-03-2010 01:41 PM

Agreed, my initial thought was Jenn Aiel as well.

NargsBrood 11-03-2010 02:02 PM

same
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Galagros (Post 121743)
Agreed, my initial thought was Jenn Aiel as well.

that was my initial reaction as well.

Tamyrlin 11-03-2010 05:40 PM

Good one - Didn't think of Jenn Aiel
 
Jenn Aiel Dreamwalker?

It wouldn't make sense that a Jenn Aiel would just happen to show up at that moment without some knowledge of Aviendha.

Can someone give me a quick summary as to if it was the Jenn Aiel, where they have been or why/how they sought her out?

jana 11-03-2010 05:46 PM

I'm so sure it's Verin that I don't feel the need to go into detail :P

I r bad theorist.

Tamyrlin 11-03-2010 05:51 PM

Another Thought
 
An Aes Sedai from the Age of Legends associated with Rhuidean that had the gift of Foretelling/Dreaming and knew the Aiel would be destroyed if not for some intervention. So this Aes Sedai went to a Mirror World where time passed slower waiting for her moment to return.

Loony and I love it!

missbee 11-03-2010 05:55 PM

It's Amys!
 
Ok, how about this -
It's simply the Wise Ones' doing, a part of the process. They need to be sure she can think for herself and come to reasonable conclusion, they know she will have a big role to play.
In TGS ch.11 Melanie makes Avi think on the future of Aiel, she spends whole paragraphs doing it - "A remnanat of a remnant. He had broken the Aiel as a people. What would become of them?"
Aviendha is told not to Travel straight there so she has time to think, on the way they get 'Nakomi' to ask some more questions to make think some more and check on her state of mind.
Part way through the conversation Aviendha thinks "[Nakomi] did not wear the clothing of a Wise One, but there was something about her..."
And in TGS ch.15 - "Of all the Wise Ones, only she - a former Maiden - could have sneaked up on Aviendha."

zanethanatos 11-03-2010 05:58 PM

I really like the Marty McFly option - it seems to make a good amount of sense but it would be pretty lame.

Grig 11-03-2010 05:59 PM

Quote:

Can someone give me a quick summary as to if it was the Jenn Aiel, where they have been or why/how they sought her out?
She cryogenically froze^W^W statis boxed herself in the necessary place according to prophecy by Deindre Sedai in order to guide She Who Will Save The Remnant.

Cuz otherwise, yeah, they're extinct.

FWIW, my money is on Verin.

Xelun 11-03-2010 06:06 PM

Hoid!

But no, I thought "bubble of good" on reading it originally. I was tired with a headache then. Upon re-reading after sleeping, she screams of Verin.

(e) For the Age of Legends Aes Sedai possibility, you might be able to consider vacuoles in addition to Portal Worlds. We know vacuoles were accessible to some of the Aes Sedai and that time flowed radically differently in them. Of course, that doesn't explain potential for vacuoles to break away and/or how the Aes Sedai inside would know it's time to come out, but hey, AoL AS requires serious jumping through hoops anyway.

Tamyrlin 11-03-2010 06:22 PM

I agree
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by missbee (Post 121862)
Ok, how about this -
It's simply the Wise Ones' doing, a part of the process. They need to be sure she can think for herself and come to reasonable conclusion, they know she will have a big role to play.
In TGS ch.11 Melanie makes Avi think on the future of Aiel, she spends whole paragraphs doing it - "A remnanat of a remnant. He had broken the Aiel as a people. What would become of them?"
Aviendha is told not to Travel straight there so she has time to think, on the way they get 'Nakomi' to ask some more questions to make think some more and check on her state of mind.
Part way through the conversation Aviendha thinks "[Nakomi] did not wear the clothing of a Wise One, but there was something about her..."
And in TGS ch.15 - "Of all the Wise Ones, only she - a former Maiden - could have sneaked up on Aviendha."

Go read this -> http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/...ead.php?t=4322. That's the theory I plan to develop. Nice addition with the quote from TGS. I plan to use everything in TDR/TSR/TFoH to create the theory, but that will be a nice addition.

ArtK 11-03-2010 07:33 PM

Some Questions:
 
Do we know who the old lady is that Egwene met the first time she entered TAR? (It could be the same person.)

Has anyone mentioned the fact that in the future the pillars show her Rand bowed to the Empress? Perhaps all she has to do is persuade him not to do that to prevent the future she has seen.

Couldn't Nakomi be one of the Heroes of the Horn who "hooked" her into TAR? Perhaps using a disguise, and perhaps somebody who was involved in setting up the Aiel originally.

Davian93 11-03-2010 07:37 PM

Pretty sure that most think that was Lanfear pushing the girls into a trap. I dont recall if that's ever been confirmed by RJ though.

Terez 11-03-2010 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArtK (Post 121949)
Has anyone mentioned the fact that in the future the pillars show her Rand bowed to the Empress? Perhaps all she has to do is persuade him not to do that to prevent the future she has seen.

Yes, I've mentioned this elsewhere, but this was not actually a problem at the time, and we'll never know if the Seanchan would have actually broken the Peace on that loophole. It was only assumed that they would. We do have reason to suspect that the bowing thing in the Seanchan prophecies was something planted by Ishamael, but I'm not so sure that this was the root problem at all.

Tamyrlin 11-03-2010 07:45 PM

Interesting - Hero
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ArtK (Post 121949)
Couldn't Nakomi be one of the Heroes of the Horn who "hooked" her into TAR? Perhaps using a disguise, and perhaps somebody who was involved in setting up the Aiel originally.

Hero is possible...assuming they can find dreams. Would be a useful question: Can Heroes awaiting rebirth in T'A'R find dreams?

ShadowbaneX 11-03-2010 08:36 PM

I was quite thinking Marty McFly when I suggested that idea to your Fearless Leader...think more "Save the Cheerleader, save the World."

khon 11-03-2010 09:15 PM

Sometimes a spade is just a spade. Nakomi could just be a very thoughtful Aiel. She could be an Aiel who succumbed to the Bleakness but had an epiphany as to a new direction for the Aiel.

Terez 11-03-2010 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khon (Post 122040)
Sometimes a spade is just a spade.

Sometimes, but not this time. She can't just be a random Aiel; that doesn't explain the oddities. She has to be either a Dreamwalker or a channeler with more knowledge of weaving than the Wise Ones have.

Davian93 11-03-2010 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khon (Post 122040)
Sometimes a spade is just a spade. Nakomi could just be a very thoughtful Aiel. She could be an Aiel who succumbed to the Bleakness but had an epiphany as to a new direction for the Aiel.

As T states, it just doesnt fit.

I've just reread that section and I think I'm more lost now than ever on who it was. Verin is a tempting guess but I'm not sure really.

ShadowbaneX 11-03-2010 09:49 PM

Not sure, but it didn't seem to me that this was a Dream. It was after Aviendha returned to her camp and found all of Nakomi's pack and plate were gone that she finally went to sleep. I like the idea that by some way, (a hole in the pattern or just the ability to project an image) someone manages to slip into the past (or into the future from the past?) to give a warning.

I'm also wondering if it was a coincidence that the roots that Nakomi adds to the dinner happens to be the same type of roots Aviendha's mother used to prepare.

ShadowbaneX 11-03-2010 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davian93 (Post 122046)
As T states, it just doesnt fit.

I've just reread that section and I think I'm more lost now than ever on who it was. Verin is a tempting guess but I'm not sure really.

I'm wondering if Brandon is having fun with us again. I can just imagine him there, writing that part part, giggling with malicious glee about how nuts this is going to drive us trying to figure it out.

Tamyrlin 11-03-2010 09:57 PM

Funny you should say that.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowbaneX (Post 122090)
I'm wondering if Brandon is having fun with us again. I can just imagine him there, writing that part part, giggling with malicious glee about how nuts this is going to drive us trying to figure it out.

I need to write down one or two questions he answered for me on his way out the other morning...but I need to check with him about something first.

Anyway, he seemed to enjoy the idea that we'd be discussing Nakomi in the foreseeable future.

Xelun 11-03-2010 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tamyrlin (Post 122096)
I need to write down one or two questions he answered for me on his way out the other morning...but I need to check with him about something first.

Anyway, he seemed to enjoy the idea that we'd be discussing Nakomi in the foreseeable future.

Enjoy "oh good you didn't miss something important" or sadistic enjoyment? ;)

Tamyrlin 11-03-2010 10:28 PM

More like
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Xelun (Post 122099)
Enjoy "oh good you didn't miss something important" or sadistic enjoyment? ;)

I have no intention of knocking off suspects or ending discussion in anyway about Nakomi...so yeah, a bit sadistic. :)

Terez 11-03-2010 10:32 PM

Yeah, I'm still guessing 'unrevealed', permanently. But I'm not going crazy about it at all. It was Verin, obviously.

fionwe1987 11-03-2010 10:59 PM

I'm thinking more and more that neither Verin nor Lanfear, my second and first choices, make sense.

It seems to me that that Aiel's role is still unrevealed. We have no frigging clue why they had to be kept alive as a people. Merely to provide Rand with huge armies? To train Egwene so she could become Amyrlin? To die off in the hands of the Seanchan?

None of it makes sense. They're obviously going to be very important for the LB, and the AoL Aes Sedai knew it. Plus, the AoL Aes Sedai loved the Aiel.

So here's my crackpot:

It was a ter'angreal. We've once before seen someone (Rand) be pulled into a dream and not even know it. This was in tGH and he saw Ishy in the dream.

My idea is: certain that at some point a person would come to Rhuidean who would change the future of the Aiel and lead them in the Last Battle, the super-old Aes Sedai we saw in tSR left a ter'angreal in Rhuidean that would activate when this woman was near and pull her into a Dream. There, a construct of this Aes Sedai would try to point her in a new direction, in an attempt to end the Aiel's exile in the Waste. Some of what she does seems too close to what Aviendha would expect for it to be otherwise.

There's also this:

"I am far from my roof," the woman said, wistful, "yet not far at all. Perhaps it is far from me. I cannot answer your question, apprentice, for it is not my place to give this truth.

Seems like something an automaton would say. If this is Verin, why wouldn't she give the name of a sept and clan? Why claim to be unable to answer the question? If this is a saved memory of the AS, however, it could make sense. Maybe she lived in a city that was formerly in the area occupied by the Waste. Then, all that separates her from her roof is time, which is why it is far away, yet not far at all.

How's that for crazy?

Tamyrlin 11-04-2010 12:24 AM

How about?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fionwe1987 (Post 122129)

"I am far from my roof," the woman said, wistful, "yet not far at all. Perhaps it is far from me. I cannot answer your question, apprentice, for it is not my place to give this truth.

That quote does support the Hero of the Horn theory. Far from my roof (broke the precepts), yet not far at all (in T'A'R, perhaps it is far from me (other heroes won't break their precepts, but she believes this is too important.)

jana 11-04-2010 12:28 AM

it isn't bothering me either.

dfchang813 11-04-2010 12:35 AM

Of everything I've read, I guess Verin is the most possible. But I just don't understand why she would do this . . . I've never gotten any vibe reading the series that she really cared enough about the Aiel to do something this specific.

At the same time, what she tells Aviendha isn't particularly earth-shaking. I mean, she tells her that after the Last Battle, the Aiel can't just go on doing what they're doing nor can they really go back to the Aiel Waste.

It seems that this advice, combined with Avi's visions in the crystal columns point to the Aiel returning to their society of old which is the Way of th Leaf.

The Aiel will be important in fighting the Shadowspawn armies of course but I think embracing the Way of the Leaf with the Tinkers may prove a significant role in defeating the Dark One.

Dennis

Azure Skeith 11-04-2010 01:02 AM

Glad I'm not alone
 
My initial thought was that Aviendha had been pulled into T'A'R by a Wise One for the meeting and was afraid it would be a loony thought.

As for Nakomi being Verin... Do we have any idea when in the timeline this meeting takes place? I don't have TGS with me so I don't know when she left in Rand's one, but the chapter preceding Nakomi took place weeks after Verin died if I have any chronological sense left after reading this book. So confusing.

dfchang813 11-04-2010 01:15 AM

The timelines don't match up so Verin may very well have been alive taking care of all the little things she needed to do before dying.

She can also Travel so distances mean very little.

I think it's certainly possible that Verin could have done this, the question is why would she do this? Most of her efforts have been helping Rand defeat the Dark One . . . I fail to see what giving advice to Aviendha about the Aiel AFTER the Last Battle when presumably and hopefully the Light has won serves Verin at all.

jana 11-04-2010 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure Skeith (Post 122150)
Do we have any idea when in the timeline this meeting takes place?

I don't know how long Aviendha's been walking, but she left for Rhuidean fairly early in TGS, and Rand's timeline was about even with Egwene's. So there was plenty of time left before her death.

Lupusdeusest 11-04-2010 03:03 AM

Verinness
 
She just reeked of Verin to me - I actually had to check the timeline in my head. Her mannerisms... the way she nudges Avi is almost identical to her Usual Tactic (most recently seen in her nudging Eg to visit Laras).
I would be heartily surprised were it not Verin. (Mind you, I got Mesaana=Shevan wrong...)

jana 11-04-2010 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lupusdeusest (Post 122185)
She just reeked of Verin to me

Welcome :D

So now we know Nakomi smells like ink and tea.

ArtK 11-04-2010 07:16 AM

Based on her actions, Verin could well be a Hero of the Horn, if perhaps one not often heard of in stories.


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