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-   -   Gateways and other Questions for Brandon Sanderson (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=4990)

PerrinMcBeardy 01-04-2011 01:55 PM

Gateways and other Questions for Brandon Sanderson
 
Hey all, I emailed Brandon Sanderson and he responded, so I thought I'd post the exchange here. My original email to him is pasted below his response.

Brandon Sanderson:
"Thank you for the email. You raise some great points. Really, I need to dig into the notes and find out of there's a reason for this, and what the reason is. Honestly, it hadn't occurred to me that there might be a problem, as some of these sequences (as I mentioned) are based on direction I received, not my own conjuring. I don't generally fact-check those as exhaustively as I do my own.

My instinct is that there's a reason in the notes given, and it's probably something like you mentioned. Some kind of leak of power on a weave that huge when tied off. Or, even, it continues to drain strength form the one who made it. We'll see, but for now, you are free to theorize. I'll say this: It isn't a mistake, as it wasn't something I came up with on my own. (The lack of tying the gateways off.)

Best,

Brandon"

My email to Brandon Sanderson:

"I was reading through the new quotes from the recent book tours, and I came across this:

'Towers of Midnight book tour 16 November 2010 WH Smith, Paris, France - Jonathan B. reporting

I asked [Brandon Sanderson] about why Grady didn't tie off the gateways to move Perrin's troops if he was too tired to keep them open. Brandon [said] that this was part of the instructions he had, so he didn't want to change it (my speculation is that I think that means it was probably in the notes themselves but I don't know that for sure). He said that it makes sense for tying off gateways to have a cost for the channeller to maintain because if it were so easy to create gateways and tie them off, it could be very breaking for the logistics of the world. If this were possible in the Age of Legends for example, why would anyone need a horse or a wagon or to develop any other kind of technology to transport anything? There could just be tied off gateways from everywhere to everywhere else.'

It has bothered many of us in the last few books that they haven't mentioned tying off gateways as an option at all. I think it's quite likely that the Pattern was keeping Perrin and his force in that area so that he would meet/deal with the Whitecloaks and do all the other stuff he had to do to become the new Perrin 2.0. But, reading the above quote made me think of earlier in the series, where Rand blocks Avienda's closing gateway and that despite him doing that, the gateway still slowly shrank. Asmodean's response was that he had only known of a couple people ever being able to block a closing gateway. I know that this doesn't necessary directly relate to tying off gateway's, but it seems that the same problem might exist. Naturally gateways are very powerful, in that they can slice solid objects as they open or close. It makes sense to me that gateways would strongly resist remaining open, and that tying them off would have limited affect. Who would want to be walking through a tied off gateway if that gateway might close on them at any moment?

Could this be the reason that people don't attempt to tie off gateways for long periods of time?"

sythmaster 01-04-2011 03:06 PM

This idea makes sense, that there is somehow so much 'energy' focused and how it punches through or copies parts of the Pattern that aren't really suppose to be like that.

Gateways don't naturally exist, and the Pattern tries to fix that....

Another example (possibly) for you to use would be the amount of energy expended when the gateway that was being unraveled exploded. Though that might of had some side effects from the Bowl of Winds.

On a side-note, I was never actually sure if the 'side effects' on the OP in the south were due to the Bowl of Winds, or the explosion of the Gateway. Originally, I thought it actually had more to do with the gateway than the Bowl. But I'm probably wrong on that.

Neilbert 01-04-2011 09:46 PM

Because they will fall apart eventually.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACOS 40
Frowning, Graendal watched the gateway close behind the last of the Jumai Shaido. The Jumai and a great many Wise Ones. Unlike with the others, Sammael had not simply knotted this web so it would fall apart eventually. At least, she assumed he held it to the last; the closing, right on the heels of the last brown-and-gray-clad men, was too fortuitous otherwise. Laughing, Sammael tossed away the bag, still holding a few of those useless bits of stone. Her own empty sack was long since discarded. The sun sat low behind the mountains to the west, half of a glowing red ball.

Some weaves can apparently be tied off for a long time, like the wards on Callandor, but I would bet that tying off a gateway just leaves you with a gateway that will close at some random point in the future.

Kimon 01-04-2011 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neilbert (Post 137975)
Because they will fall apart eventually.



Some weaves can apparently be tied off for a long time, like the wards on Callandor, but I would bet that tying off a gateway just leaves you with a gateway that will close at some random point in the future.

There must be a way to vary how long a tied off weave will endure however. Certainly the tied off shield that Moghedien placed on Liandrin has lasted quite some time, but it likely requires quite a bit more effort and expenditure of energy on the part of the weaver. I seem to recall Rand at various times also commenting on tying off weaves and having them last a couple of days, so apparently he at least could vary the length of time that his knots would last to some degree. But certainly, for a weave designed for the transport of people, you wouldn't want to always be in fear of imminent collapse, thus personally holding the gate open, while taxing, is, if nothing else, much more safe.

Juan 01-04-2011 11:28 PM

Right. Tied off weaves weaken and fade over time. Some quicker than others. I imagine gateways can be tied off and fall apart rather quickly because they're a "rift in the pattern" so they probably don't have enough strength to stay open for too long if tied off.

For example, when Lanfear had Asmodean as a prisoner she had the shields on him. She had to constantly reapply the shield because it began to weak and dissolve gradually. So there's definitely examples and proof that tied-off weaves dissolve over time.

Marie Curie 7 01-16-2011 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sythmaster (Post 137920)
On a side-note, I was never actually sure if the 'side effects' on the OP in the south were due to the Bowl of Winds, or the explosion of the Gateway. Originally, I thought it actually had more to do with the gateway than the Bowl. But I'm probably wrong on that.

They were due to the Bowl:

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ
The Path of Daggers book tour 21 November 1998, VA - John Novak reporting

The Bowl: Someone asked him whether, if men had helped the Aes Sedai and Windfinders and Kin channel through the Bowl, the One Power would still have been screwed up. His implicit assumption was that the Bowl screwed things up....He went into a relatively detailed explanation to the effect that the Bowl was stressed far, far beyond its original design parameters because of the advanced knowledge of the Windfinders. It was affecting a global pattern, when it was designed for only a small region. Men helping would not have changed anything, and the effects linger most strongly near Ebou Dar, but also along the "spokes" which radiated from that place.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimon (Post 137977)
There must be a way to vary how long a tied off weave will endure however. Certainly the tied off shield that Moghedien placed on Liandrin has lasted quite some time, but it likely requires quite a bit more effort and expenditure of energy on the part of the weaver. I seem to recall Rand at various times also commenting on tying off weaves and having them last a couple of days, so apparently he at least could vary the length of time that his knots would last to some degree. But certainly, for a weave designed for the transport of people, you wouldn't want to always be in fear of imminent collapse, thus personally holding the gate open, while taxing, is, if nothing else, much more safe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juan (Post 137980)
Right. Tied off weaves weaken and fade over time. Some quicker than others. I imagine gateways can be tied off and fall apart rather quickly because they're a "rift in the pattern" so they probably don't have enough strength to stay open for too long if tied off.

RJ has stated that it is possible for the channeler to vary the length of time that a weave remains tied off:

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ
TOR Questions of the Week, December 2003 to April 2004

Week 7 Question: I would like to ask about knotting a weave. Does a channeler determine how long it will last when she knots it or is it dependent on her strength? If a channeler who knotted a weave died, would the weave dissipate immediately?

Robert Jordan Answers: The length of time the knot lasts is the choice of whoever makes the knot. It is not strength-dependent. And the knot would continue in existence if the channeler died, at least if the channeler had not set it to unravel in a certain time. Remember, tying off a weave is a way to keep the weave in existence without having to actually channel to maintain it, so once it is tied off, there is really no need for the channeler to continue living for the weave to be maintained.



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