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-   -   TGH, Chapter 10, 11 and 14 (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5703)

yks 6nnetu hing 07-05-2011 09:29 AM

TGH, Chapter 10, 11 and 14
 
my re-read's going much faster than I anticipated thus far.

In chapters 10, 11 and 14 Mat's being particularly obnoxious vile little boy, first to Rand and then to Perrin. With Rand he had motive seeing as Rand tried to push Mat and Perrin away from himself and purposefully insulted them. When Mat and Perrin discover Rand with the Dragon banner, first Mat's being really horrible to Rand (which is understandable, seeing as Rand insulted him earlier) but then, when Rand confesses that he can channel and that's why he tried to make sure Mat and Perrin were as far from him as possible, Perrin seems to be able to understand that Rand really doesn't have a choice of channeling or not channeling, it's just the way he is, but Mat first complains that Rand isn't the same any more (yeah, that's the pot calling the kettle black), and then this:

Quote:

TITLE: Great Hunt
CHAPTER: 11 - Glimmers of the Pattern
"That is what I'm afraid of," Mat said, standing. "No offense, Rand, but I think I will just sleep as far away from you as I can, if you don't mind. That's if you are staying. I heard about a fellow who could channel, once. A merchant's guard told me. Before the Red Ajah found him, he woke one morning, and his whole village was smashed flat. All the houses, all the people, everything but the bed he was sleeping in, like a mountain had rolled over them."
yeah, that's a good friendly reaction. sure.

and then when Mat thinks Perrin is a sniffer:
Quote:

TITLE: Great Hunt
CHAPTER: 14 - Wolf brother
"A sniffer! You? You're going to track murderers by smell? Perrin, you are as crazy as Rand. I am the only sane one left from Emond's Field, with Egwene and Nynaeve trotting off to Tar Valon to become - " He cut himself short with an uneasy glance for the Shienarans.
Perrin took Hurin's place beside Ingtar as the small column rode south. Mat kept up a string of disparaging remarks, until Uno found the first tracks left by Trollocs and by men on horses, but Perrin paid him little mind.
and that's even aside from all the times he threw up on the wayside (I've counted 4 so far, maybe 6 if I include TEOTW)

Isabel 07-05-2011 01:03 PM

True, Mat was being a jerk, but I think it's realistic in this world.
Everyone has tales about crazy male channelers and how dangerous they are. So logical that at least one of Rand's friends can't deal with it in the beginning.

WinespringBrother 07-06-2011 01:09 PM

Not to turn this into a Mat-bashing thread :D but I think he was a weak character in the beginning, though that could be just to setup his anti-hero credentials. Mat was a lot better in book 3 (my favorite in the series) and eventually became a grown up (though reluctantly lol). And in all honestly, the Emond's Fielders were all quite whiney often in the first few books... Rand pouting about Moiraine ignoring him, Perrin complaining about wolves getting inside his brain, etc.

Ishara 07-06-2011 02:25 PM

And let's not forget the influence of the dagger, and the fact that he's got his mind full of worry about that. Not everyone handles stress well, clearly he gets better at it. But yes, a bad friend and a self-righteous little prick, at first.

Davian93 07-06-2011 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WinespringBrother (Post 154182)
Not to turn this into a Mat-bashing thread :D but I think he was a weak character in the beginning, though that could be just to setup his anti-hero credentials. Mat was a lot better in book 3 (my favorite in the series) and eventually became a grown up (though reluctantly lol). And in all honestly, the Emond's Fielders were all quite whiney often in the first few books... Rand pouting about Moiraine ignoring him, Perrin complaining about wolves getting inside his brain, etc.

Teenagers that whine when things dont go exactly as they wanted or dreamed???

How out of character for them.

yeah, Mat was a bit whiny before he became the most awesomest coolest pimp daddy playah of them all.

Dont be a playah hater, WSB.

yks 6nnetu hing 07-07-2011 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WinespringBrother (Post 154182)
Not to turn this into a Mat-bashing thread :D but I think he was a weak character in the beginning, though that could be just to setup his anti-hero credentials. Mat was a lot better in book 3 (my favorite in the series) and eventually became a grown up (though reluctantly lol). And in all honestly, the Emond's Fielders were all quite whiney often in the first few books... Rand pouting about Moiraine ignoring him, Perrin complaining about wolves getting inside his brain, etc.

oh, I don't need a separate thread to bash Mat...

I was just a bit surprised that he was this advanced in his jerkdom this early in the series, I sort of remembered that he really started to go bananas after Rhuidean.

I suppose the difference is that in the examples you give, the whining is mostly an internal monologue - mostly: I do remember Rand blowing up in... someone's face about Moiraine - whereas in the quotes I gave it's definitely not internal. I mean, I can understand why he would say what he said but compared to Perrin, Rand or even Egwene at the same time period, he's spectacularly... immature.

WinespringBrother 07-07-2011 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davian93 (Post 154206)
Teenagers that whine when things dont go exactly as they wanted or dreamed???

How out of character for them.

yeah, Mat was a bit whiny before he became the most awesomest coolest pimp daddy playah of them all.

Dont be a playah hater, WSB.

LOL

Quote:

Originally Posted by yks 6nnetu hing (Post 154238)
oh, I don't need a separate thread to bash Mat...

I was just a bit surprised that he was this advanced in his jerkdom this early in the series, I sort of remembered that he really started to go bananas after Rhuidean.

I suppose the difference is that in the examples you give, the whining is mostly an internal monologue - mostly: I do remember Rand blowing up in... someone's face about Moiraine - whereas in the quotes I gave it's definitely not internal. I mean, I can understand why he would say what he said but compared to Perrin, Rand or even Egwene at the same time period, he's spectacularly... immature.

Mat did become more of a sympathetic character when he got his first POV, upon awakening in the WT after his healing(in The Dragon Reborn)- and it didn't hurt when he took his frustrations out on those 2 self-entitled noble brats Gawyn and Galad :D

yks 6nnetu hing 07-07-2011 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WinespringBrother (Post 154263)
Mat did become more of a sympathetic character when he got his first POV, upon awakening in the WT after his healing(in The Dragon Reborn)- and it didn't hurt when he took his frustrations out on those 2 self-entitled noble brats Gawyn and Galad :D

lol, even I agree: that was possibly one of the best scenes in the whole series.

Davian93 07-07-2011 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yks 6nnetu hing (Post 154309)
lol, even I agree: that was possibly one of the best scenes in the whole series.

Easily top 5...Mat's entire Tar Valon experience is still my favorite part of the early books to read.

Jonai 07-08-2011 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davian93 (Post 154326)
Easily top 5...Mat's entire Tar Valon experience is still my favorite part of the early books to read.

"You would have no chance against one trained swordsman, much less..." (lololol)

While that was a great scene and mat is pretty darn cool in book 3...he was still a bit of a douche til like book 6+.

GonzoTheGreat 07-08-2011 06:05 AM

Well, that is why Egwene and friends berated him for interfering with their plans to trap the BA in Tear, wasn't it?

Davian93 07-08-2011 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat (Post 154359)
Well, that is why Egwene and friends berated him for interfering with their plans to trap the BA in Tear, wasn't it?

He should have left their ungrateful butts in the damn cell.

yks 6nnetu hing 07-08-2011 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davian93 (Post 154370)
He should have left their ungrateful butts in the damn cell.

back on topic please. this is a thread about Mat's mega-ego overcompensating for his tiny dagger. In tGH.

Sertii 07-08-2011 09:40 AM

none of the emondīs fielders are nice and interesting characters up untill TDR, with the exception of... ehm... you-know-who, who sucks throughout the whole series, and nynaeve, who just sucks up untill book 8

yks 6nnetu hing 07-08-2011 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sertii (Post 154374)
none of the emondīs fielders are nice and interesting characters up untill TDR, with the exception of... ehm... you-know-who, who sucks throughout the whole series, and nynaeve, who just sucks up untill book 8

I very much disagree. Besides, if you didn't like the characters, why'd you continue reading?

GonzoTheGreat 07-08-2011 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yks 6nnetu hing (Post 154375)
I very much disagree. Besides, if you didn't like the characters, why'd you continue reading?

The pictures, of course. The same reason why people read the Playboy, but in reverse.

adrienne 07-18-2011 12:55 AM

I think his attitude reflects his age. We see all of the characters develop. He is obviously the most immature of the bunch and stays that way throughout the series.


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