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Terez 09-01-2014 09:50 PM

By the way, RJ confirmed that those specific Aes Sedai were not from the Age of Legends twice, long before he confirmed no Aes Sedai survived the Breaking at all. I have often wondered whether that was a retcon because of the logic of the lost weaves. The way those Aes Sedai were described would lead you to believe they were near the max lifespan, but they had already begun using the Oath Rod by then, if not all three Oaths which is necessary for the "ageless" look.

Marie Curie 7 09-01-2014 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terez (Post 223633)
I can't find it, hopefully because I'm using the wrong search terms, but I remember the logic was that if any of them had survived, then none of the common weaves should have been lost.

One place it exists is in the BWB.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ
BWB
Chapter 9


Given the exceedingly long lifespan of Aes Sedai during the Age of Legends, it would seem possible that at least some Aes Sedai who were alive at the beginning of the Breaking, even some who lived when the Bore was drilled, were still living when the Breaking ended. Over the centuries there has been considerable speculation, some rather wild, about this. However, the increasingly violent nature of the times, from the drilling of the Bore to the beginning of the War of the Shadow, the war itself, and finally the centuries of the Breaking, suggest that no Aes Sedai alive at the end of the Breaking had survived that entire span, or even a significant portion of it. The one possible exception may be the Aes Sedai who were involved in the building of Rhuidean, in the Aiel Waste. Tantalizing rumors claim that Aiel Wise Ones and clan chiefs may know something about this, but unless they can be induced to be more forthcoming - and so far, they are rigidly closemouthed - little is likely to be learned beyond the fact that Aes Sedai were involved.

By the first century AB, letters reliably attributed to Aes Sedai already speak of "forgotten Talents" and "lost abilities," and bemoan the "vast knowledge of the Power that is gone and may be centuries in the rediscovery." If any Aes Sedai had survived the entire span, or even Aes Sedai who had been raised in the early years of the Breaking, there would have been few or no lost abilities and no need to "rediscover" them.


Terez 09-01-2014 11:12 PM

I believe that's the only place it exists. I considered it was there when I was looking for it, but I felt more confident it was an interview quote, and I was on the road and trying to search from my phone until I got home. :D I don't have the BWB on my phone. And now since I am home I will link the two quotes I mentioned in my last post:

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=98#2

MICHAEL MARTIN
My first question: "Was the Aes Sedai who initiated the Pact of Rhuidean from the Age of Legends?" (From The Shadow Rising).

ROBERT JORDAN
(Pause) "No." (Pause) "No, she was not from the Age of Legends."

MICHAEL MARTIN
My reason for asking had to do with the Oath Rod theory about agelessness and such.

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=83#32

JOHN FROM FRONT ROYAL, VIRGINIA
Mr. Jordan, were either of the Aes Sedai seen at Rhuidean in The Shadow Rising Deindre, the Aes Sedai from the beginning of the Breaking? Is Deindre responsible for Foretelling the entire Prophecies of the Dragon? Thank you for taking time to respond to our questions this evening.

ROBERT JORDAN
No, she wasn't, and you're welcome.

Terez 09-01-2014 11:16 PM

Now that I look at those quotes they're open to interpretation, even alongside the BWB quote, despite the logic of the lost weaves, which is good logic but not foolproof logic.

1) In the first quote, RJ might have seen a loophole in the wording "the Aes Sedai who initiated the pact".

2) In the second quote, he might have ignored the first question.

3) In the BWB quote, there are hints that the Aes Sedai in Rhuidean were the only Aes Sedai who lived that long, but no one else knew about them, and the logic of lost weaves didn't necessarily apply to them since they were traveling with the Jenn.

rand 09-01-2014 11:35 PM

Huh. For some reason I forgot (even though I just read it) the AS show up when the caravan's back in Cairhien. I guess they just caught up to the Jenn after a while?

FWIW regarding the timeline, Rand says "If the ancestors of the Cairhienin had not allowed the Aiel to have water three thousand years ago..." Which probably isn't very accurate.



Anyway, I've been working 10-12 hours a day over the past few days, so I haven't had time to read much or post. But I got some stuff in:

Going back to the visions in Rhuidean, what did Mandein see? Was his first vision just of himself from ten minutes earlier?

I forget if this is ever elaborated on, but why do the wolves completely clear out of the TR when Slayer shows up? I know he can kill them permanently in TAR, but you'd think with their philosophy regarding Trollocs and Fades they'd just band together and try to kill the guy.

This is probably just a stupid idea, but does Faile know Luc from earlier? His Hunter of the Horn persona is presumably bs, but he claims to have been looking for it in Manetheren, the same as Faile (who seemed to think it was a secret idea of hers). When he first sees Faile, Luc gives her a smile that's "familiar and decidedly warm." Perrin thinks he's just hitting on her, and Faile later tells Perrin she encouraged it to make him feel jealous. But obviously she must be covering up for more sinister relations with Lord Luc... :p

Why do Verin and Alanna go to the Two Rivers in the first place? Are they looking for Rand? I'm guessing Verin doesn't really care about all the channelers in the TR. But unless they knew of Fain's plan to use the WCs to lure Rand there, did they just go in the off chance Rand would get homesick and go back?

It's also weird that Verin and Alanna go to Watch Hill, and are apparently fine with staying there until the WCs push them south to Emond's Field.

So I guess the abundance of channelers, ta'veren, and wolfbrothers (well, one) in the Two Rivers is all caused by inbreeding and the Old Blood being "strong"?

I know I've accused Verin of doing pretty much everything so far, but did she have a hand in killing Alanna's Warder Owein? Getting shot to death in an open field by WCs just seems like a really dumb mistake for a Warder to make. Maybe Verin needed Alanna off-balance and tripped Owein or held him with the OP or something?

Do we ever really find out what Fain is doing with (or getting from) the Fade he tortures?

Based on Verin's reaction to Perrin's hammer, I'm guessing she knows about the Wolf King part of the Prophecies. Oddly enough, Moiraine says earlier in tSR (I think. Maybe tDR somewhere) that the Prophecies don't mention Rand's companions (Mat and Perrin). Who did she think the Wolf King was then? Just Rand? Even after she knew about Perrin's wolf stuff?

Luc says his Borderland house is Chiendelna. Is this significant in any way, or just a random name he gives? It seems to reference dogs ("chien") (ie wolves), but maybe it's just nothing.

Should we assume that Verin knows exactly (more or less) who Luc is?

When Perrin goes into the WC camp to save everyone, he asks Verin to have her Warder Tomas go with them, and she refuses, saying "Do you think one more would make a difference? Besides, I have other uses for him." Does Verin mean that Tomas, as a fellow fake DF, is integral to her overall plan and thus she can't risk him for something as "trivial" as this?

How did Rand plan on catching Asmo? Did he leave the Choedan Kal in Rhuidean as bait, (somehow) knowing that Asmo would go after them? Or did he just get lucky that everything worked out as it did?

Is Rand's destruction of the Aiel and the "remnant of a remnant" thing still to come after aMoL, like the stuff that Aviendha sees in Rhuidean? Or did all that just never really happen in aMoL?

When Egwene meets Elayne for the first time after they part (and before Amys wakes her up and starts yelling at her), is this the first instance of the unseen eyes in TAR? I know people have said it's the Heroes. Is this assumed to be true, or is there any other answer?

Terez 09-02-2014 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rand (Post 223639)
FWIW regarding the timeline, Rand says "If the ancestors of the Cairhienin had not allowed the Aiel to have water three thousand years ago..." Which probably isn't very accurate.

It's pretty close.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rand (Post 223639)
Going back to the visions in Rhuidean, what did Mandein see? Was his first vision just of himself from ten minutes earlier?

Probably not. It was important for them to see that the Aiel once followed the Way of the Leaf and how their change came about, and it was important to remember what their mission was, to keep the things safe from channeling men. The Aes Sedai apparently originally thought that they might rebuild the Hall of the Servants in the Waste, but they probably broke with the Aes Sedai who were building Tar Valon. I wouldn't be surprised, actually, if the Mandein scene is roughly concurrent with the completion of the construction in 202.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rand (Post 223639)
I forget if this is ever elaborated on, but why do the wolves completely clear out of the TR when Slayer shows up? I know he can kill them permanently in TAR, but you'd think with their philosophy regarding Trollocs and Fades they'd just band together and try to kill the guy.

He was making Darkhounds. Every death was a weapon in his hands.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rand (Post 223639)
Why do Verin and Alanna go to the Two Rivers in the first place? Are they looking for Rand? I'm guessing Verin doesn't really care about all the channelers in the TR. But unless they knew of Fain's plan to use the WCs to lure Rand there, did they just go in the off chance Rand would get homesick and go back?

They were looking for information about Rand and hoping to tie him to them with the girls he knew from back home. That played out in LOC when he saw them and Alanna bonded him. I think Verin does care about the recruits on a purely Aes Sedai level, and of course Alanna does too. They just care more about Rand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rand (Post 223639)
Do we ever really find out what Fain is doing with (or getting from) the Fade he tortures?

Not explicitly, though we see him again later and know that Fain has gotten information from him at least. I always suspected it had something to do with the attack on Rand in KOD at Algarin's manor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rand (Post 223639)
Based on Verin's reaction to Perrin's hammer, I'm guessing she knows about the Wolf King part of the Prophecies. Oddly enough, Moiraine says earlier in tSR (I think. Maybe tDR somewhere) that the Prophecies don't mention Rand's companions (Mat and Perrin). Who did she think the Wolf King was then? Just Rand? Even after she knew about Perrin's wolf stuff?

That verse was quoted by a Seanchan when it was finally quoted, so I'm not sure it's known on Randland proper. Verin could know it from Ishamael.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rand (Post 223639)
Luc says his Borderland house is Chiendelna. Is this significant in any way, or just a random name he gives? It seems to reference dogs ("chien") (ie wolves), but maybe it's just nothing.

Good point on the name; the reference seems to have mostly been significant because it alludes to Isam and the begrudged throne.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rand (Post 223639)
Should we assume that Verin knows exactly (more or less) who Luc is?

Luc, probably. Isam, not yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rand (Post 223639)
How did Rand plan on catching Asmo? Did he leave the Choedan Kal in Rhuidean as bait, (somehow) knowing that Asmo would go after them? Or did he just get lucky that everything worked out as it did?

He left the Choedan Kal in Rhuidean because he was going to go back for them; I don't think he had a specific plan to lure Asmodean there, and he likely would have been reluctant to risk that kind of battle and would have sought a more mundane one, with his fat man.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rand (Post 223639)
Is Rand's destruction of the Aiel and the "remnant of a remnant" thing still to come after aMoL, like the stuff that Aviendha sees in Rhuidean? Or did all that just never really happen in aMoL?

It's probably endlessly interpretable, since the Aiel are already a remnant of a remnant in Mandein's time. (Da'shain - less the Tinkers - less the Jenn.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by rand (Post 223639)
When Egwene meets Elayne for the first time after they part (and before Amys wakes her up and starts yelling at her), is this the first instance of the unseen eyes in TAR? I know people have said it's the Heroes. Is this assumed to be true, or is there any other answer?

No explicit answer. It could be anyone who knows how to stay hidden.

GonzoTheGreat 09-02-2014 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rand (Post 223639)
Huh. For some reason I forgot (even though I just read it) the AS show up when the caravan's back in Cairhien. I guess they just caught up to the Jenn after a while?

In another vision, from even earlier, it is mentioned that the Aiel occasionally meet AS. Those went another way after meeting them, these stayed with the Jenn.

Quote:

Going back to the visions in Rhuidean, what did Mandein see? Was his first vision just of himself from ten minutes earlier?
LOL
I think Terez is right about him not seeing himself, but it is a neat idea nonetheless.

Quote:

Why do Verin and Alanna go to the Two Rivers in the first place? Are they looking for Rand? I'm guessing Verin doesn't really care about all the channelers in the TR. But unless they knew of Fain's plan to use the WCs to lure Rand there, did they just go in the off chance Rand would get homesick and go back?
No AS had been in the TR for a long time, possibly not since the Trolloc Wars. Now a pair of very strong channelers and three ta'veren come from the same village. For a Brown, that is an interesting phenomenon, thus giving Verin a plausible reason for curiosity. For a Green, it could be a source of power to be harnessed in preparation for TG, which is supposedly what Greens do.
Plus, if they find other girls who can be trained, that would be a major plus for their standing in the WT.

At the time, Alanna did not yet know that Rand was the DR, and Verin wasn't going to tell her.
Quote:

So I guess the abundance of channelers, ta'veren, and wolfbrothers (well, one) in the Two Rivers is all caused by inbreeding and the Old Blood being "strong"?
Useful plot device, that, isn't it?

Quote:

Based on Verin's reaction to Perrin's hammer, I'm guessing she knows about the Wolf King part of the Prophecies. Oddly enough, Moiraine says earlier in tSR (I think. Maybe tDR somewhere) that the Prophecies don't mention Rand's companions (Mat and Perrin). Who did she think the Wolf King was then? Just Rand? Even after she knew about Perrin's wolf stuff?
I think that most AS, including Moiraine, had been ignoring the Wolf King bit as incomprehensible. Moiraine could have put things together, but this seems to have been something that she overlooked. She was a bit preoccupied at the time, so it is understandable.

Quote:

When Egwene meets Elayne for the first time after they part (and before Amys wakes her up and starts yelling at her), is this the first instance of the unseen eyes in TAR? I know people have said it's the Heroes. Is this assumed to be true, or is there any other answer?
Another obvious answer, and one that is probably at least partially right too, is that it would be the Forsaken and Slayer. Those too had reason to be spying on whatever they could find in TAR.

And, for all we know, some Sharans or people from the Land of the Madmen also had this ability. If Dreamwalking had been known in Seanchan then we would have heard about it, I think, so it seems we can exclude those.

Terez 09-02-2014 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat (Post 223643)
At the time, Alanna did not yet know that Rand was the DR, and Verin wasn't going to tell her.

She had, however, already shown an unhealthy interest in Rand. It would be naive to think they didn't assign themselves this mission with other motives in mind. That doesn't mean the mission wasn't important or that they didn't appreciate it on those merits.

GonzoTheGreat 09-03-2014 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terez (Post 223646)
She had, however, already shown an unhealthy interest in Rand. It would be naive to think they didn't assign themselves this mission with other motives in mind. That doesn't mean the mission wasn't important or that they didn't appreciate it on those merits.

Of course, that interest could have been a simple "I want another Warder, having a ta'veren would be nice". She was a Green, after all. And probably smart enough not to fancy Mat as a Warder.

rand 09-04-2014 12:20 AM

It's implied that the peddlers with Lanfear and Asmo must have done something to avoid running into any Aiel in the Waste. Did they just Travel directly to the middle of the Waste, or did Lanfear and Asmo kill any Aiel they happened to run across?

When Kadere and the others show up, Rhuarc says they're lucky they didn't keep going as they would have reached Rhuidean. Why would he expect Kadere to know what Rhuidean is? Ingtar and Verin didn't seem to know about it back in tGH. Though FWIW, Kadere apparently does know what it is based on his reaction.

Kadere tells Rand that "Belief and knowledge pave the road to greatness. Knowledge is perhaps the most valuable of all. We all seek the coin of knowledge." And the glossary describes Kadere as "A man with knowledge to sell, if he can find the right price." Is Kadere trying to rat out Lanfear and Asmo in exchange for protection from the DR?

Presumably Mat's medallion and ashanderei are objects the Eelfinn collected from people who didn't escape Sindhol. Is it possible either belonged to Birgitte and/or Gaidal Cain?

During the Trolloc attack at Imre Stand Mat's medallion grows cold during the battle. Who's channeling at him? I'm guessing it would have to be either Lanfear or Asmo, but why? Are they trying to protect him or kill him or what?

Also, what's up with the Trollocs at Imre Stand? Why did they attack the small settlement there weeks earlier? And who ordered them to attack Rand's party? Isn't it Lanfear's plan to have Asmo teach Rand? Why try to kill him? But if not her or Asmo, who else knows where Rand is at this point?

When Liandrin is talking to some of the other BA sisters at their palace in Tanchico, Asne Zeramene says (about Rand): "If there is a way to control him, I would not mind binding him to me. He is a good-looking young man, from the little I saw." Where would she have seen him before. The only possibility is that she might have caught a glimpse of him in the distance as he ran through the halls of the Stone.

So who's ordering Liandrin and the others at this point? Liandrin clearly has no more idea what they're searching for than Nynaeve and Elayne do, so what did the Forsaken tell them? That there's something in Tanchico that might control Rand, but good luck finding it? Did whoever ordered them know about the male a'dam and just didn't bother describing it to Liandrin? That would be pretty pointless. But if the Forsaken didn't know exactly what/where the controlling device was, how they know it was in Tanchico to begin with?

I don't think I ever noticed this before from Egeanin's PoV with the Seeker in her house:
Quote:

tSR 38
Most Seekers for Truth bore the ravens as well as the tower, but not even someone who dared steal a Seeker's plaque would have himself marked so. To wear the ravens was to be the property of the Imperial family. There was an old story of a fool young lord and lady who had themselves tattooed while drunk, some three hundred years gone. When the then Empress learned of it, she had them brought to the Court of the Nine Moons and set to scrubbing floors. This fellow might be one of their descendants. The mark of the raven was forever.
So the raven tattoos are somehow passed on through generations? Does that mean they're OP tattoos, similar to the Rhuidean dragons? Is the guy in the Band (forget his name) a descendant of these people?

Why does Domon instantly recognize Nynaeve and Elayne, who he spent like ten minutes with (he spent most of his time in Falme with Min)? On top of that, he doesn't recognize Thom until well after he's reacquainted with Nynaeve and Elayne, even though he knew him for much longer.

I forget, does Elayne ever re-remember that Thom was Morgase's lover?

GonzoTheGreat 09-04-2014 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rand (Post 223666)
It's implied that the peddlers with Lanfear and Asmo must have done something to avoid running into any Aiel in the Waste. Did they just Travel directly to the middle of the Waste, or did Lanfear and Asmo kill any Aiel they happened to run across?

Yes. Probably yes to the first, that they Traveled there, but since we're not sure, a generic yes is the best available answer.

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When Kadere and the others show up, Rhuarc says they're lucky they didn't keep going as they would have reached Rhuidean. Why would he expect Kadere to know what Rhuidean is? Ingtar and Verin didn't seem to know about it back in tGH. Though FWIW, Kadere apparently does know what it is based on his reaction.
I got the impression that peddlers and such get a briefing which says "don't go near Rhuidean, we really mean it" and not much more. So he would have known that it was a bad idea, but not where specifically it was.
Usually peddlers get an escort, and thus can be steered away from it.

I wonder how the Aiel kept the Tinkers away from it. In hindsight, I wish I'd asked RJ that one.

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Presumably Mat's medallion and ashanderei are objects the Eelfinn collected from people who didn't escape Sindhol. Is it possible either belonged to Birgitte and/or Gaidal Cain?
In the case of the medallion: possible, though there is no real reason to think so.
In the case of the ashanderei: no way. Gaidal Cain is famous for always using two swords, so a spear like thing would be totally out of character for him. As for Birgitte, I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader.

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So the raven tattoos are somehow passed on through generations? Does that mean they're OP tattoos, similar to the Rhuidean dragons? Is the guy in the Band (forget his name) a descendant of these people?
I suspect that it is much simpler: children of such slaves are tattood too, so that they are marked as property from a young age.

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I forget, does Elayne ever re-remember that Thom was Morgase's lover?
Read and find out. Read on and find out!

rand 09-05-2014 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat (Post 223669)
Read and find out. Read on and find out!

Yeah, I have to do that for a lot of things lol. It's surprising how much I forgot about the series.





Where does Alanna keep disappearing to in Emond's Field? Loial informs Perrin (through Faile) that she's vanished twice since they arrived in Emond's Field. And later on when Perrin shows up with the arrow in his ribs, it takes Alanna what feels like forever to show up--she clearly wasn't just hanging around the village somewhere. I know she sent Ihvon out to look for Perrin, but I can't picture Alanna herself marching off into the woods alone in search of him.

Why doesn't Perrin think Luc looks a little like Rand? At least, I don't think he ever does. But later when Egwene (or Elayne or someone) sees him in TAR she thinks he looks like Rand's evil uncle.

When Luc sees the Aiel, for what I think is the first time, he does this: "Luc frowned at Gaul thoughfully, perhaps disapprovingly; the Aielman stared back stony-faced." I never noticed this before. I'm guessing it has something to do with Slayer's connection with the Town and his killing/capturing of Aiel heading that way, as he doesn't seem to look at Bain and Chiad at all. Why would he be disapproving, though? I forget, is it ever mentioned if Luc knew Tigraine went to the Waste?

Why do Ihvon and Tomas know how to build catapults? I know they're Warders and all, but was the construction of a catapult common knowledge that any competent soldier would have known?

Verin says that Alanna suggested the wolfhead banner. This seems unlikely considering Verin is the one who more than likely knows about Perrin's connection with wolves. So did Verin compel Alanna into making the suggestion, as she may have compelled Alanna into bonding Rand later on?

I know it's kind of a joke, but do the Two River's people really have enough weapons "rusting in their attics" to fill the entire commonroom of the Winespring Inn?

When Loial's talking about destroying a Waygate, he mentions that a circle of thirteen was able to do it, but when only nine tried they "'damaged the Gate in such a way that the Aes Sedai were pulled into--'" And then he cuts off when everyone stares at him: "Everyone was staring at him, even Verin and the Aiel." So first, what did they AS get pulled into? Just the Waygate? Another dimension? A spinoff book? Second, why is Verin surprised here? Was she unaware that a Waygate could be destroyed, or is she also curious as to what happened to the nine AS that tried to do it?

At one point Tomas calls a Fade a "Faceless." Is this just a typo for Eyeless? I don't remember them being called Faceless before. I mean, they still have faces...

For some reason I always think of tSR as being heavily focused on Nyneave and Elayne in Tanchico, but they actually only have about 5 or 6 chapters there. Comparatively, Perrin has about 15 in the TR.





Ok, here's a theory-ish thing I thought of. Though it's probably been brought up before.

So I guess Mat's luck comes from the dagger and it's connection to Mordeth. This seems to be confirmed when Slayer says "The Shadow consume me if that man [Fain] does not have more luck than the White Tower." My question now is why Mordeth is particularly lucky. Was he ta'veren? It's possible that he's simply a sneaky, persuasive guy, but being ta'veren would help explain how he was able to so heavily influence the king of Aridhol, Barthanes, the Fade in tGH, Pedron Niall, Dain, Elaida, etc. Maybe this would also explain Mat's luck a little more--he also has the affect of another ta'veren in his body, in some way (which I admittedly don't know) allowing all his luck to be good instead of 50/50 like most ta'veren.

Davian93 09-05-2014 02:20 PM

Quote:

Where does Alanna keep disappearing to in Emond's Field? Loial informs Perrin (through Faile) that she's vanished twice since they arrived in Emond's Field. And later on when Perrin shows up with the arrow in his ribs, it takes Alanna what feels like forever to show up--she clearly wasn't just hanging around the village somewhere. I know she sent Ihvon out to look for Perrin, but I can't picture Alanna herself marching off into the woods alone in search of him.
No idea...maybe she's simply grieving? She did just lose a Warder after all and that's a devastating event.

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Why doesn't Perrin think Luc looks a little like Rand? At least, I don't think he ever does. But later when Egwene (or Elayne or someone) sees him in TAR she thinks he looks like Rand's evil uncle.
I can't recall off the top of my head but maybe Perrin only ever sees him as Isam and thus there is no resemblance?

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Why do Ihvon and Tomas know how to build catapults? I know they're Warders and all, but was the construction of a catapult common knowledge that any competent soldier would have known?
Warders aren't common soldiers, they are the best of the best and Warder School is like the West Point of soldiering, its not just learning the sword. They learn all the rest. Building siege equipment and the engineering associated with them would be part of that. I wonder how Gawyn did in the trig classes he'd need to take for the aiming part?

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Verin says that Alanna suggested the wolfhead banner. This seems unlikely considering Verin is the one who more than likely knows about Perrin's connection with wolves. So did Verin compel Alanna into making the suggestion, as she may have compelled Alanna into bonding Rand later on?
Its Verin so its probably a half-truth at best.

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So first, what did they AS get pulled into? Just the Waygate? Another dimension?
RAFO. Seriously though...probably the dimension that the Waygates exist in which is likely some form or another of TAR given the issues with time/distance that exist there. I doubt they survived the process.

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At one point Tomas calls a Fade a "Faceless." Is this just a typo for Eyeless? I don't remember them being called Faceless before. I mean, they still have faces...
Probably a typo...or maybe its just another iteration of the same naming conventions.

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For some reason I always think of tSR as being heavily focused on Nyneave and Elayne in Tanchico, but they actually only have about 5 or 6 chapters there. Comparatively, Perrin has about 15 in the TR.
I would imagine this is because those Tanchico chapters can be a chore to read at best given that its about Elayne & Nynaeve.

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My question now is why Mordeth is particularly lucky. Was he ta'veren?
Likely because he is outside the Pattern to an extent (I believe RJ used the phrase "sidestepped the Pattern" to describe Fain/Mordeth) that it does not control him...thus he can manipulate things unlike anyone else (other than the DO who is also outside the pattern).

Weird Harold 09-05-2014 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davian93 (Post 223701)
Quote:

For some reason I always think of tSR as being heavily focused on Nyneave and Elayne in Tanchico, but they actually only have about 5 or 6 chapters there. Comparatively, Perrin has about 15 in the TR.
I would imagine this is because those Tanchico chapters can be a chore to read at best given that its about Elayne & Nynaeve.

Or it could be that the supergirls get three times as much accomplished in their five chapters as Perrin does in his fifteen?

Davian93 09-05-2014 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weird Harold (Post 223704)
Or it could be that the supergirls get three times as much accomplished in their five chapters as Perrin does in his fifteen?

To be fair, those are pretty much the only chapters in the entire series where Perrin is actually interesting.

He gets a ton done in them.

GonzoTheGreat 09-06-2014 04:20 AM

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Originally Posted by rand (Post 223698)
Why doesn't Perrin think Luc looks a little like Rand? At least, I don't think he ever does. But later when Egwene (or Elayne or someone) sees him in TAR she thinks he looks like Rand's evil uncle.

Perrin starts out with a bit of prejudice against Lord Luc before he's even seen him, so he would not be too likely to associate the fellow with one of his friends.
As for Egwene ... if I comment on that, it might get moved to the Egwene thread. :D

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Verin says that Alanna suggested the wolfhead banner. This seems unlikely considering Verin is the one who more than likely knows about Perrin's connection with wolves. So did Verin compel Alanna into making the suggestion, as she may have compelled Alanna into bonding Rand later on?
Another possibility is that Verin was not being truthful. She is BA, after all.

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At one point Tomas calls a Fade a "Faceless." Is this just a typo for Eyeless? I don't remember them being called Faceless before. I mean, they still have faces...
It's probably yet another regional name for them. At another point in the same book (right after saving Perrin from a Halfman), Ihvon also uses the term "Faceless".

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So I guess Mat's luck comes from the dagger and it's connection to Mordeth. This seems to be confirmed when Slayer says "The Shadow consume me if that man [Fain] does not have more luck than the White Tower." My question now is why Mordeth is particularly lucky. Was he ta'veren? It's possible that he's simply a sneaky, persuasive guy, but being ta'veren would help explain how he was able to so heavily influence the king of Aridhol, Barthanes, the Fade in tGH, Pedron Niall, Dain, Elaida, etc. Maybe this would also explain Mat's luck a little more--he also has the affect of another ta'veren in his body, in some way (which I admittedly don't know) allowing all his luck to be good instead of 50/50 like most ta'veren.
We know there's a ter'angreal that sort of reproduces ta'veren effects. We also know that Mordeth at some point was searching for any kind of power that he could use against the DO. Maybe one of the things he found or did to himself was get some twisted form of ta'verenness.

rand 09-10-2014 01:46 PM

I haven't been able to reach much lately, but here are a few things.



Why don't Elayne and Nynaeve recognize Egeanin's Seanchan accent? Elayne thinks it sounds different and wonders where it's from, but you'd think they'd be haunted, like Egwene, but anything associated with the Seanchan. Something like that accent should definately stick in their memories for a long time.

When Elayne and Nynaeve mention Bayle Domon's name, Egeanin almost has a heart attack in front of them. But earlier from Egeanin's PoV we know that she already knows Bayle is in Tanchico, and she's already trying to avoid him.

Right before Siuan is deposed she thinks this:
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tSR 47
Danelle, on the other hand, the young Brown sister who was supposed to be watching Master Jovarin, the mason, was most likely letting herself be distracted by the books the fellow kept finding for her. That was the only way to explain her failure to question the number of workmen Jovarin claimed to have hired, with the first shipments of stone from Kandor just arriving in Northharbor. He could rebiuld the entire library with that many men. Danelle was simply too dreamy, even for a Brown.
First of all, why would any Brown sister need some random mason guy to find books for her? A second, of course--why would Mesaana? Assuming Jovarin really is finding books for her.


Siuan is clearly puzzled about how Masema, a Shienaran in Ghealdan, could possibly know Rand's name. Doesn't she know that Rand was traveling with a whole bunch of Shienaran soldiers for a while? I mean, she could wonder why the guy was in Ghealdan, but the fact that a Shienaran knows Rand's name shouldn't be very surprising.

Not that it seems to have mattered to Elaida, but was it "legal" to murder Siuan's Warder before arresting her? Is it customary to murder the Warder of AS who are to be stillied, or Amyrlin's who are to be desposed?

I know he's wearing a scarf and all, but how does no one notice that Mat has a huge scar around his neck?

Why are gleemen allowed in the Waste? I know why Tinkers would be, albeit grudgingly. And peddlers are useful. But why gleemen? Do the Aiel really value entertainment that much?

Are Cairhienin gleemen allowed in the Waste?

GonzoTheGreat 09-11-2014 04:02 AM

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Originally Posted by rand (Post 223787)
First of all, why would any Brown sister need some random mason guy to find books for her? A second, of course--why would Mesaana? Assuming Jovarin really is finding books for her.

Having someone else do your work is generally a lot easier than doing it yourself, so a Brown letting a mason fetch her books wouldn't be necessarily out of character. As for why such a mason might do that: Siuan comes up with a fairly good reason. And as to the last: I don't think it was books at all. Instead, I think that Jovarin was a DF who was getting orders and bringing information to Mesaana.

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Siuan is clearly puzzled about how Masema, a Shienaran in Ghealdan, could possibly know Rand's name. Doesn't she know that Rand was traveling with a whole bunch of Shienaran soldiers for a while? I mean, she could wonder why the guy was in Ghealdan, but the fact that a Shienaran knows Rand's name shouldn't be very surprising.
Siuan may have believed that all those Shienarans had gone home. Admittedly, that would have been a somewhat dodgy assumption, especially since she knew there had been a couple of ta'veren involved.

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Not that it seems to have mattered to Elaida, but was it "legal" to murder Siuan's Warder before arresting her? Is it customary to murder the Warder of AS who are to be stillied, or Amyrlin's who are to be desposed?
It was probably "differently legal", which is also good enough for loads of our own vigilantes.

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Why are gleemen allowed in the Waste? I know why Tinkers would be, albeit grudgingly. And peddlers are useful. But why gleemen? Do the Aiel really value entertainment that much?
Well, they don't sing themselves, unless they're fighting, so if they want a song, they have to find some non-Aiel to do it for them. And they don't want to ask the Lost Ones.

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Are Cairhienin gleemen allowed in the Waste?
I think that with a gleeman, the nation of origin isn't particularly important.
For example, I wouldn't even know what country Thom Merrilin came from, originally.

rand 09-15-2014 11:18 PM

I finished tSR a couple days ago and started tFoH. I'll post stuff from the end of tSR for now and get to the tFoH stuff some other time.

Moiraine's guest gift to Lian is scents from Arad Doman. Where did she get these from? Did she go through there on her way to Toman Head back in tGH? Did she somehow learn balefire by witnessing Graendal or Lanfear do it there?

How do the Wise Ones anticipate the Shadowspawn attack? They make some offhand comments about it being an evil night or something, but how do they sense this? It reminds me of Raen somehow sensing the attacking ravens on tEotW.

Has Elayne seriously not realized that Thom is more than a senile old man at this point? She dismisses him out of hand and treats him like crap time and again, yet he continues to prove her wrong. And she continues to ignore all that. I mean, instead of starting a riot and killing half of Tanchico, they likely could have told Thom about the bracelets and seal and sent him into the palace to get them with no problems.

Not sure I ever noticed this before, even though it was fairly obvious these two would meet up at some point:
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tSR 52
She realized she had not told Egwene about Egeanin. Perhaps best not to stir up Egwene's memories of her captivity. Nynaeve could remember all too well the other woman's nightmares for weeks after she was freed, waking up screaming that she would not be chained. Much the best to let it lie. It was not as if Egwene need ever meet the Seanchan woman.

When Nynave is using Need to find the thing that's dangerous to Rand, the first thing she sees in the Panarch's Palace is the Seal. Why doesn't she just assume that this is the "weapon?" The BA could blackmail Rand with it or something, threatening to break it.

When Elayne frees Amathera from Temaile, Amathera says Temaile used to bring her into TAR and drop her from a tower before waking her up inches from the ground. Back when Egwene was initially scouting Tanchico, she saw the exact same thing happen to a man. Is this just coincidence, or was the BA torturing someone else? Any idea who he is/was?

Why doesn't Elayne just kill Temaile. Isn't that what Siuan sent them to do in the first place? They're supposed to be hunting the BA sisters, not following them around partially disrupting their plans every now and again.

For that matter, why on earth doesn't Nynaeve kill Moghedien? She's so concerned over the bracelets, which might pose a distant threat to Rand, that she's willing to let one of the Forsaken run free, who will certainly be a threat to Rand. I mean, helping Rand is the whole reason they're there in the first place.

So when was the domination band/e've/sad bracelets/whatever they're called made? It seems like it was long before a'dam were invented. Was it originally created during the Breaking to control the insane male Aes Sedai?

How did Moghedien find out that the bracelets were in a museum in Tanchico? She doesn't seem to be working with Liandrin and the others at the moment, so who told them the bracelet was there?

Domon says he's going to dump the bracelets into the water near Aile Somera. Egeanin apparently agrees to go with him. But Aile Somera is where Cantorin and Suroth's headquarters are. Egeanin must know this, so is she intentionally trying to sabotage to mission to get rid of the bracelets?

Faile tells Perrin that Queen Tenobia has never led men in battle. I forget, but doesn't she in aMoL?

The Deven Riders sent word to Emond's Field that they were coming to help long before the Trollocs actually attacked. So how did they know when the attack would come? Were they just waiting out in the woods until the Trollocs attacked so they could take them from behind?

How does Fain know his dagger's in the WT? Can he really tell from that far away the exact building it's in?

Does Fain actually go to Caemlyn before TV, as he tells his Whitecloaks, and we just never see it "on screen?" It seems like he wants to rally Morgase against the Two Rivers, so should we assume he left Caemlyn right away after realizing a Forsaken, and not Morgase, was ruling Caemlyn?

When Rand make stairs in the Skimming place to chase Asmo, he does this:
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tSR 58
With the thought, the gray stone under his foot began to fade, and all the others ahead shimmered. Desperately he concentrated on them, gray stone and real. Real! The shimmering stopped. They were not so plain now, put polished, the edges carved in a fancy border he thought he recalled seeing somewhere before.
Is this just a random comment? Where did Rand see these stairs before?


FWIW, Asmo puts up a better fight against Rand that almost any other Forsaken.

It's mentioned that there are stained glass portraits of people in some of the windows in Rhuidean. Who would these be of?

Does Asmo naturally look like Natael? Ie, is he ever disguised in the series?

Terez 09-16-2014 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rand (Post 223852)
When Rand make stairs in the Skimming place to chase Asmo, he does this:

Is this just a random comment? Where did Rand see these stairs before?

The Lews Therin memories began to surface at the beginning of this book, in ch. 9 specifically. RJ likes to drop those bits in dream-space, sleeping or otherwise. They're often random and small like this one.

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Originally Posted by rand (Post 223852)
Does Asmo naturally look like Natael? Ie, is he ever disguised in the series?

No disguise. Rand doesn't begin to remember their faces until later. The memories really start flying in the next book, and it's possible that his being around Asmodean all the time has something to do with it.


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