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Tollingtoy 08-04-2014 07:58 AM

Cuendillar armor?
 
My father in law asked me an interesting question I couldn't answer--maybe someone here can

Why not make cuendillar armor?

Weird Harold 08-04-2014 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tollingtoy (Post 222866)
My father in law asked me an interesting question I couldn't answer--maybe someone here can

Why not make cuendillar armor?

Because you can't make anything articulated -- it turns into a single piece off cuendillar, like the harbor chains.

To make Cundillar armor, each piece would have to be fitted to the recipient and converted to cuendillar separately. A task that would take an armorer as long as making regular armor, plus tie up a relatively powerful Aes Sedai as well.

Cuendillar armor would also have to be plate armor because chainmail couldn't be assembled ring by ring or converted in one weave.

GonzoTheGreat 08-04-2014 09:55 AM

Make cuendillar helmets. Those would already provide helpful protection.
Make (big) cuendillar shields, and have those carried by people protecting others from arrows, balefire and other flying nuisances.
Make cuendillar breast plates, and fit those to other (more conventional) armor with leather straps.

Edited to add:
Make cuendillar ear plugs, to protect against Draghkar.

The Unreasoner 08-04-2014 11:32 AM

The thing about cuendillar armor is that it could be paper thin. Scale mail, breastplate, helmet..,and the thinner the material, the easier it could be to convert. And it protects against balefire, deathgates, etc...

The obvious answer to the OQ is that it would be too useful, acrewing up the plot.

Side note: the dom band was cuendillar, and was somehow articulated maybe converted piece by piece, held in a way that they didn`t touch. Or wrap it in paper.

I want to know why they don't make cuendillar swords. I have ceramic knives at home sharp as hell, though annoyingly brittle.

GonzoTheGreat 08-04-2014 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Unreasoner (Post 222874)
I want to know why they don't make cuendillar swords. I have ceramic knives at home sharp as hell, though annoyingly brittle.

Read and find out:
Quote:

Originally Posted by AMoL, Chapter 1, Eastward the Wind Blew
Rand had lent him as many more Asha'man as he could spare, if only because—as soon as they'd heard—he'd had dozens of Maidens presenting themselves and demanding Power-wrought spearheads. It only makes sense, Rand al'Thor, Beralna had explained. His smiths can make four spearheads for every sword. She'd grimaced saying the word "sword," as if it tasted like seawater.


The Unreasoner 08-04-2014 01:15 PM

Thats no answer. Rand's sense of obligation to the Maidens and Tarmon Gaidon imposed time constraints concerning normal Power wrought weapons don't explain why no one made a cuendillar blade, in either age we have info on. Even power wrought weapons can break, Rand's did in TGH. Maybe it was TP, idr, but balefire almost certainly could destroy the one and not the other.

Sarevok 08-06-2014 05:12 AM

Another point on the cuendillar armor question:
Remember this was in a time whith much larger industrial capacity, which presumably meant things like grenades and bombs were available alongside fireballs thrown by Aes Sedai.
Armor is nice against swords, but it's less usefull if the enemy can throw mass destruction around at will. Armour is nice, but if your face might get melted off, it may be better to not wear any armor and be more agile instead.

The Unreasoner 08-06-2014 11:29 AM

Paper thin cuendillar (or even thinner) wouldnt inhibit motion much. And alongside grenades and whatever was balefire and deathgates. And grenades have shrapnel.

GonzoTheGreat 08-06-2014 11:47 AM

Shrapnel gets stopped by armour, if it hits it (and the armour is strong enough). Blast waves, though, would be more of a problem.

The death gates would be a good issue, though. Supply some Trollocs (or Myrddraal) with cuendillar swords, and they can cut up all the death gates without being harmed by them. Then the rest of the horde can follow, and the Shadow wins.

rand 08-06-2014 01:39 PM

Regarding the cuendillar swords...I don't know much about swords, but they should be flexible, right? Cuendillarizing them would most likely get rid of the flexibilty. This might not matter much for knives, spearheads, axes, etc., but I'm not sure cuendillar swords would really work.

The Unreasoner 08-06-2014 02:14 PM

Flexible? Some swords might be, but I don't see why it would be advantageous as a rule. They'd be thinner and lighter, but cuendillar could be made thin enough for arbitrary lightness. And I don't think the randland swords are flexible in any case. A cuendillar sword would almost be a lightsaber, if it's thin and sharp enough. Cut through almost anything, block balefire blasts, etc. Lightsabers, broadswords, katanas...none need to bend.

As for the cutting up deathgates, I think it would just block it, or be pushed aside. Though I do not know what would happen if someone slipped a cuendillar ring over the silvery line of light that precedes a gateway.

The Unreasoner 08-06-2014 02:19 PM

On that note, if someone constructed a cuendillar door/tunnel through a large gateway, would that hold it open indefinitely? Because that introduces a host of interesting possibilities. Aside from the ones BS brought up when it came to tying off gateways, you could have unlimited energy from a waterwheel that had its water continuously replaced.

Weird Harold 08-06-2014 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Unreasoner (Post 222925)
Paper thin cuendillar (or even thinner) wouldnt inhibit motion much. And alongside grenades and whatever was balefire and deathgates. And grenades have shrapnel.

Just how many cuendillar makers are there in the world? Most of them we know of take hours to convert one goblet.

There's also the additional armorer's time to make iron armor thinner and custom fit pieces to the recipients (because you can't adjust or resize cuendillar)

Cuendillar was an expensive luxury even in the AOL, not because it wasn't versatile but because very few Aes Sedai could make it or devote time to it from other duties or interests.

The Unreasoner 08-06-2014 09:18 PM

I'm not asking why no armies have standard issue cuendillar armor and weapons. I'm asking why we haven't seen a single instance of either. Although swords could be done easily in bulk by Egwene. Take a bit of iron, shape it with the power into one very fat sword, then slice off paper thin pieces (or thinner) with a gateway mandolin. Then convert at your leisure. One day of dedicated effort could arm a hundred soldiers with swords better than any on earth before or since.

ShadowbaneX 08-06-2014 09:38 PM

I think armour probably wouldn't be worth the effort. It's been a while, but didn't the links on the chain in Tar Valon fuse when Egwene did her thing? If that's the case then doing chain mail or anything of the like is now a pain. Plate could still be done, but there's a problem with that, it still needs straps and the like to hold it on, so there's still a failure point.

Weapons aren't a bad idea, but in some cases, like say axes & hammers, having a heavy head a bonus, not a detriment. If it can hold an edge, that also works, but if you think about it, they've already got power-forged weaponry, that's, while probably not as durable as cuendillar is still pretty useful.

No, if I want to make anything out of cuendillar it's cannon & rifle barrels. Imagine a squeeze-bore artillery piece. The general idea is an artillery or rifle barrel that is larger at the loading end and smaller at the naughty end. When the round or shell is fired out under enormous pressure and is actually deformed as the barrel gets smaller, resulting in much higher velocity, so can travel further and have more kinetic force/penetrating power when it arrives at it's target.

Or, you know, tanks. Tanks could work too.

Frenzy 08-07-2014 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Unreasoner (Post 222941)
I'm not asking why no armies have standard issue cuendillar armor and weapons. I'm asking why we haven't seen a single instance of either.

Probably for the same reason modern police officers don't wear kevlar bunny suits.

And a super light sword wouldn't be all that useful because no matter how sharp it is, it wouldn't have enough mass/momentum to cut through much.

Weird Harold 08-07-2014 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Unreasoner (Post 222941)
Although swords could be done easily in bulk by Egwene. ... Then convert at your leisure. One day of dedicated effort could arm a hundred soldiers with swords better than any on earth before or since.

When does the Amyrlin have time for "One day of dedicated effort?" Egwene can't convert swords "in bulk" because they'd fuse together; each sword would require a separate weave.

That assumes such thin, light, swords would be of any use; it certainly wouldn't help that each would have to be inspected closely and sharpened before conversion because once converted, they're fixed forever with every dent, ding, and warp.

Also, FWIW, a good sword is flexible (in part) so that it doesn't transmit the shock of impact back to the swordsman's arm.

ShadowbaneX 08-07-2014 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frenzy (Post 222947)
And a super light sword wouldn't be all that useful because no matter how sharp it is, it wouldn't have enough mass/momentum to cut through much.

George Lucas would disagree...:p

Hugh the Hand 08-13-2014 05:20 PM

I think time and effort was the problem in "modern" times. As for the AOL who knows what they had or did not have. Plus as we can see, even in the AOL they did not think of everything that would be helpful in war, such as using gateways as windows to view the field.

A light sword would have its uses, ie rapiers or foils.

As for the AOLers not using armor or finding it not usful due to bombs, OP, etc, we see them wearing armor in the Glass Columns chapters.

ShadowbaneX 08-14-2014 06:56 AM

I'm not saying that it wouldn't be useful, I'm saying that if I'm in charge I'm having the resources put towards artillery first. Did we ever figure out the effect range of a Channeler is? I'm gonna guess it's not nearly the same as the effective range of an artillery piece.

I'm still disappointed that Frenzy didn't think of the Star Wars reference though.


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