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-   -   So I just started A Game of Thrones... (http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=8561)

Rand al'Fain 04-01-2015 02:45 AM

So I just started A Game of Thrones...
 
I wanted to see what all the fuss was about (never read the books or watched the TV show before) so I went and got the 1st book. So far it's!

Okay. Just okay? Yeah, just okay, so far. Several chapters in and in jumps around from chapter to chapter. In Wheel of Time, it somewhat does this, but most POVs are from characters that were already introduced and you know who the main protagonist is (same with LOTR). So far, story building wise, that's my biggest issue. We have like 5 different characters who have received the same amount of attention, some of which are in the same area, others are in a different land. It just jumps between characters too much to really get attached. As soon as you start to, they jump to another character who may or may not be related to the previous character's POV.

Also, whereas WOT and LOTR spent time building up worlds and such, this one is more interested in political machinations. Including incest, molestation, slavery, etc. Definitely a darker tone than the WOT books, at least the earlier ones.

So yeah. It's okay, and I can see why it would translate so well to a HBO series, though I'll see where I'm at on it after I finish book 1.

SomeOneElse 04-01-2015 04:38 AM

Yes it could be frustrating at the beginning, I agree, had the same thoughts as you when starting. Just read some more of it then you'll probably get used to it. Good that you've started with a book not with a movie.

Davian93 04-01-2015 09:12 AM

I wouldn't waste your time if I were you. Zero point to start reading them as he's never going to finish and they start to really suck once he starts ignoring his editor in Feast for Crows.

Unless you like really long descriptions of food/feasts, etc and zero plot advancement and an ever growing spiral of rape, sexual depravity, etc added purely for shock value, its a waste of time. His schtick grows old after a while and his 7 years between books act is also old.

rand 04-01-2015 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davian93 (Post 228090)
I wouldn't waste your time if I were you. Zero point to start reading them as he's never going to finish and they start to really suck once he starts ignoring his editor in Feast for Crows.

Actually, GRRM just announced that he finished Winds of Winter, and it will be out sometime this summer. On top of that, he also revealed that he's already halfway done A Dream of Spring!









April Fools :p

rand 04-01-2015 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rand al'Fain (Post 228083)
I wanted to see what all the fuss was about (never read the books or watched the TV show before) so I went and got the 1st book. So far it's!

Okay. Just okay? Yeah, just okay, so far. Several chapters in and in jumps around from chapter to chapter. In Wheel of Time, it somewhat does this, but most POVs are from characters that were already introduced and you know who the main protagonist is (same with LOTR). So far, story building wise, that's my biggest issue. We have like 5 different characters who have received the same amount of attention, some of which are in the same area, others are in a different land. It just jumps between characters too much to really get attached. As soon as you start to, they jump to another character who may or may not be related to the previous character's POV.

Also, whereas WOT and LOTR spent time building up worlds and such, this one is more interested in political machinations. Including incest, molestation, slavery, etc. Definitely a darker tone than the WOT books, at least the earlier ones.

So yeah. It's okay, and I can see why it would translate so well to a HBO series, though I'll see where I'm at on it after I finish book 1.

There isn't any real "protagonist" in asoiaf. None of the characters are "good" and none are really "bad." So if you're waiting for one single character to emerge as the main one...yeah, it's not gonna happen.

Also, regarding the world building...just wait, it will come gradually with series. GRRM's world is actually very ceative and complex.

I'd recommend reading the series. Like Dav said, books 4 and 5 are kind of meh, but IMO, books 1 and 3 are two of the best fantasy books ever written, with book 2 not very far behind. I think it's worth reading the series just for those three books alone.

SomeOneElse 04-01-2015 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rand (Post 228103)
Actually, GRRM just announced that he finished Winds of Winter, and it will be out sometime this summer. On top of that, he also revealed that he's already halfway done A Dream of Spring!









April Fools :p

Oh you

Davian93 04-01-2015 06:46 PM

He's not writing an episode of the show this year to instead focus on finishing Winds of Winter (only 5 years in now, GRRM).

He said he turned them down but I tend to think that HBO probably told him to sod off and focus on the damn books so they don't completely overtake him in the next year or so.

Best case is he's almost done Winds and he maybe, just maybe finishes soon and it can be published late this fall or early 2016. Mind you, he's been actively working on it since mid-2010 since good chunks of it were cut from Dance with Dragons.

Ugh...he really pisses me off given that I picked up Book 1 of aSoIaF in 1997.


Whoever said the first 3 books were great is completely right though. They really are and I guess are worth a read even knowing it will never end and it really drops off in Books 4 & 5 when you can tell he loses track of his story and he apparently ate his editor.

Kimon 04-01-2015 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davian93 (Post 228112)
Ugh...he really pisses me off given that I picked up Book 1 of aSoIaF in 1997.

The first three books were excellent, he just seems to have lost any track of how to end the story. The first three books all came in quick succession - '96, '98, and 2000, and likewise had clear and succinct plots. Then everything unraveled. A five year hiatus until Feast for Crows, and a story that seemed lost and disjointed. Then a six year hiatus until Dance of Dragons. That last was at least a bit better but the same dilemma persisted, the same problem that has plagued this series all along - Dany. She is clearly needed for the resolution, and she is doing nothing to move the plot forward.

GRRM seems to have lost any sense of what to do with either her, or with the endgame of the narrative.

rand 04-01-2015 10:28 PM

Based on stuff GRRM has said, I think there's still a slim (very slim) chance that TWoW will come out late this year. He's apparently cancelled his appearances at several events, but says he'll still go to them if he finishes the book before then.



I've said this elsewhere, but I honestly believe GRRM really screwed his story up with the five year gap that was supposed to happen halfway through the series. Between two books there would have been a space of five years which would allow the younger characters to grow, and would allow others (ie Dany) to move to where they need to be. He scraped the idea, for whatever reason, and the result seems to be that GRRM has no idea what to do with a lot of the characters. Instead of growing older or moving around, Bran, Sansa, and Dany now have basically nothing to do. On top of that, splitting books 4 and 5 in half based on character (and not chronology) was a bad idea. They're much better when you read them at the same time.

I hope he can get the story back on track in tWoW. Maybe he won't, and maybe it will just be another disappointment, but I think he can still bring the series back to what it originally was.

Rand al'Fain 04-01-2015 11:17 PM

So, I can get about 5-6 books in, with grinding though books that don't really go anywhere, until I hit a point where I'm stuck waiting for the next book?

Almost sounds like WOT, though with far more depravity.

rand 04-01-2015 11:43 PM

Just my opinion, but neither A Feast for Crows nor A Dance with Dragons are as bad as Crossroads of Twilight or Knife of Dreams in terms of nothing happening.

Kimon 04-02-2015 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rand (Post 228123)
Just my opinion, but neither A Feast for Crows nor A Dance with Dragons are as bad as Crossroads of Twilight or Knife of Dreams in terms of nothing happening.

I liked Knife of Dreams. It was easily the best book in WoT since CoS. WH had its moments - mostly just Far Madding and the Cleansing. PoD was pretty dull, the asha'man campaign against the Seanchan was okay, the rest was meh. There was nothing redeeming though about CoT.

Part of Feast's problem was the lack of Tyrion and Jon. It did however have Arya, and it traded in Dany for the much more interesting Arianne Martell. So it was sort of like a WoT book where there would be no Rand or Mat, but with the trade off of getting Min and Elayne instead of Egwene, but you're stuck with a lot of Perrin. And Dance, well you get Tyrion and Jon again, but now you're also stuck with Dany.

So think of it this way, if you like Mat, you'll like Tyrion. If you hate Egwene, you'll hate Dany.

rand 04-02-2015 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimon (Post 228125)
I liked Knife of Dreams. It was easily the best book in WoT since CoS. WH had its moments - mostly just Far Madding and the Cleansing. PoD was pretty dull, the asha'man campaign against the Seanchan was okay, the rest was meh. There was nothing redeeming though about CoT.

Part of Feast's problem was the lack of Tyrion and Jon. It did however have Arya, and it traded in Dany for the much more interesting Arianne Martell. So it was sort of like a WoT book where there would be no Rand or Mat, but with the trade off of getting Min and Elayne instead of Egwene, but you're stuck with a lot of Perrin. And Dance, well you get Tyrion and Jon again, but now you're also stuck with Dany.

So think of it this way, if you like Mat, you'll like Tyrion. If you hate Egwene, you'll hate Dany.

The main reason I didn't like CoT was because RJ basically cut Rand from it. Then he went and did the same thing in KoD. It's the omission of Rand, and the fact that he cuts Rand so he can show the other characters doing nothing, that puts me off regarding those two books. And at least GRRM moves around between POVs a lot. In CoT you just get 100 pages of Perrin doing nothing, then 100 pages of Egwene doing nothing, then 100 pages of Elayne doing nothing, etc. And yes, KoD resolves some plots. But ultimately, how important are Perrin's rescue of Faile or Elayne's gaining of the Lion Throne to the conclusion of the series? They aren't, really. They're just the conclusions of relatively minor subplots that could easily not have been present at all. And this isn't to give the wrong impression, because I like reading these books still. But they're easily my least favorite in WoT, and both are worse than Feast or Dance IMO.

Speaking of Feast and Dance, have you ever tried reading them simultaneously? It makes the overall story a lot better, I think. I read using that guide on my last asoiaf reread.

yks 6nnetu hing 04-02-2015 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kimon (Post 228125)
So think of it this way, if you like Mat, you'll like Tyrion. If you hate Egwene, you'll hate Dany.

lol, no

I love Egwene but think Dany is dull as a brick.

Davian93 04-02-2015 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rand (Post 228123)
Just my opinion, but neither A Feast for Crows nor A Dance with Dragons are as bad as Crossroads of Twilight or Knife of Dreams in terms of nothing happening.

This is true...its simply magnified to be more annoying when you realize that RJ died and they've still put out 5 WoT books (6 if you count New Spring) in the time its taken GRRM to put out his last 2 books.

Davian93 04-02-2015 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yks 6nnetu hing (Post 228127)
lol, no

I love Egwene but think Dany is dull as a brick.

Yeah and at least Egwene didn't get distracted completely from her job just so she could fvck everything that moves for a year straight.

Egwene, whom my feelings towards are well known, is far, far superior as a leader and character to Dany.

Daekyras 04-02-2015 08:03 AM

A quick guide to aSoIaF:

Book 1: great. Slow start but never really dull. Excellent ending. Shock done well.

Book 2: wow, shot kicking off. Erm, big shock but he's done it before. Bravo for catching me twice.. Quite a few patches of boredom.

Book 3: I'm starting to like some of these ancillary characters. Wait, what, what? why do that? Makes no sense. About ten chapters of nothing.

Book 4: what? What? Hello? Is there anybody there? I am falling asleep here.

BOOK 5: arrrrrrrghhhhh! I threw this at the wall. F#ck you GRRM. It's not shocking anymore, it's just stupid. And stop stalling characters for no reason. Also, people that age shouldn't be involved in "stuff" like that. Pervert.

If this series were films they would be lethal weapon. Law of diminishing returns.

Davian93 04-02-2015 08:29 AM

Spoiler free but there are some parts I really liked about Feast for Crows but other parts were just godawful. I dont want to go into details of even naming names as that would give stuff away as to who is important and who isn't as major characters.

On a side note....great summary by Daek. Quite accurate overall to my own feelings on Book 5 especially.

SomeOneElse 04-02-2015 09:46 AM

Btw I think GRRM is also about to die be4 he is done with the books and so some one else will have to write it based on his notes (if any).
Hope one day they release everything GRRM wrote about Arya being in Braavos cause he ones said its volume is about a separate book.

GonzoTheGreat 04-02-2015 10:31 AM

Anything he writes is a separate book. That's the whole problem with him: he's using us as the chorus in the Monty Python "get on with it" sketch. I've decided to stop playing his game, but others seem to still enjoy it (or something).


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