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  #1  
Old 01-19-2011, 12:59 AM
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Default Brandon's 'innocent' foreshadowing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twitter
Brandon on Twitter - 18 January 2011
Yes, there is other foreshadowing in the books that I'm not telling you about because it references AMOL.
Terez
I will hopefully catch some of those, though I'm bound to catch a few red herrings as well.
Brandon
I just passed a big one in TGH.
Terez
haha, and you know I will be scouring the pages of your vicinity looking for it.
Terez
My first guess: Mat is immune to Fain's dagger. (ch. 7) Second guess: foreshadowing of Cyndane's importance in AMOL.
Terez
3rd: Slayer's role in AMOL. 4th: Perrin puts on a crown and speaks in High Chant. (the crown at least seems likely)22
Brandon
Nope and nope. It's a very innocent line, and I won't tell you more than that. You'll spot it once you read AMOL.

(Note: his last tweet was technically in response to my first two guesses.)

So, it's somewhere between chapter 6 (where he started for the day) and chapter 9 (he commented on the first Domon POV just after that). We might should reasonably extend it to the chapter he first reports on tomorrow, though it would seem smart to concentrate on 6-9 first.

Obviously, Brandon thinks it's something we won't understand until we read AMOL. But that won't stop us from over-analyzing every phrase in those chapters, will it?
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Old 01-19-2011, 04:13 AM
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Easy, this one. I've been saying it for years:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TGH, Chapter 8, TDR
The Aes Sedai shook her head. "The world grows stranger every day. I suppose the blacksmith will wear a crown and speak in High Chant. Wait here." She vanished inside to announce them.
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Old 01-19-2011, 04:25 AM
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Ah, yes, I remember reading that I went imediately "Oh, you just wait and see, bloody snob Aes Sedai", too. it´s hardly an innocent line, though. Poor Perrin will be devastated. Leader, ok, crown and king, well, the wheel weaves as the wheel wills, but High Chant ? He´d probably prefer to howl at the moon
Unfortunately my own reread is just near the end of EotW but I´m making donkey´s ears on all pages that get my attention in regard to aMoL. If others do as well, as I guess, we could make a foreshadowing compilation.

Last edited by Fie; 01-19-2011 at 04:29 AM.
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Old 01-19-2011, 05:02 AM
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Some possibilities:
(page numbers are from the the mass market edition)

Ch6, P87
Quote:
"Shai'tan is dead" [Rand] said harshly, and abruptly the room seemed to lurch. He grabbed his head as waves of dizziness sloshed through him.


Ch6, P89
Rand running through the women's appartments passing by lots of AS
Quote:
"Someone stop him!"
but nobody does. Doesn't any AS try to hold him with Air? Did Rand use Saidin?


Ch7, P102
After healing Mat
Quote:
How will this affect matters? Moiraine wondered. He is not necessary with the horn gone and yet.....
What does she know about Mat and the Horn? He hasn't blown it yet at this point.


Ch7, P113
Quote:
"Now you [Perrin]," [Leanne] said, in tones quiet yet brisk, "are almost a pretty enough boy to make me wish I was green. Almost"
Probably not what Brandon meant but still made me smile


Ch8, P122
Quote:
Leanne looked Rand over with a slight smile. Despite the smile, her voice had a hard snap to it. "What have you brought the Amyrlin Seat today, Lan Gaidin? A young Lion? Better you don't let any Greens see this one, or one of them will bond him before he can take a breath. Greens like to bond them young."
Another smile for Leanne


Ch8, 124
Verin:
Quote:
I have even heard a few Red say they sometimes wish for a warder.
Pevara and.......
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Old 01-19-2011, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
Easy, this one. I've been saying it for years:
You must have missed that I mentioned that one in one of my tweets. I do like it because it's innocent and Brandon didn't technically deny it (he responded to my first two guesses, and that one was guess four).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Landro View Post
Some possibilities:
(page numbers are from the the mass market edition)
As a general rule, it's better to use chapter numbers; no one has the same editions, except that there is a rather large group with the first edition hardback (more so for later books, obviously) because we all buy it when it comes out. But most of us use homemade ebooks at the computer.

Quote:
Doesn't any AS try to hold him with Air? Did Rand use Saidin?
Oh hell no. Don't you think they'd have noticed?

Quote:
Ch7, P102
After healing Mat

What does she know about Mat and the Horn? He hasn't blown it yet at this point.
Brandon addressed that:

Quote:
Brandon
Much has been made of Moiraine thinking of Mat: "He is not necessary with the Horn gone." (This is long before he's blown it.)
Brandon
I think it's a lot of fuss over nothing. Her plan was to have Mat, eager for adventure, draw Rand into carrying the Horn south.
Quote:
Pevara and.......
For context, he's talking about foreshadowing that he can't discuss because it will spoil things for future books. Things like this that we already know about don't qualify.
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Old 01-19-2011, 03:13 PM
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A couple of possibilities:

Lan putting aside his oaths to help Rand --- could foreshadow Rand bringing aid to Lan in AMOL.

The Dark Prophecy says Rand "gives his friends for sacrifice" -- is this turning his back on Esmond's Field, or something else?

Moiraine learning all about Rand's history while Rand is at Fal Dara -- how did she do that?
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Old 01-19-2011, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kasper11 View Post
Moiraine learning all about Rand's history while Rand is at Fal Dara -- how did she do that?
Moiraine found out a lot about Tam. She could have used her eyes and ears in Illian for that. Or maybe she has connections in Caemlyn that found out about Kari al'Thor and Tam.
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Old 01-19-2011, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kasper11 View Post
Lan putting aside his oaths to help Rand --- could foreshadow Rand bringing aid to Lan in AMOL.

The Dark Prophecy says Rand "gives his friends for sacrifice"
I thought of this when I read TGS, and Rand gave Nynaeve his little speech about how Lan's sacrifice would be a good tactical distraction.

I don't think that anything related to a prophecy is what Brandon had in mind when he said 'innocent'. He's talking more about something like this:

Quote:
An owl hooted in the night outside, and the village people jumped before they realized what it was. They laughed nervously and exchanged shamefaced looks.

"Next thing, field mice will chase us up a tree," Egwene said with an unsteady chuckle.

Lan shook his head. "Better if it had been wolves."

"Wolves!" Perrin exclaimed, and the Warder favored him with a flat stare.

"Wolves don't like Trollocs, blacksmith, and Trollocs don't like wolves, or dogs, either. If I heard wolves I would be sure there were no Trollocs waiting out there for us."
Or this:
Quote:
"Master Fain knew little more than he had already told. At least, little of interest to us. Battles won or lost. Cities taken and retaken. All in Ghealdan, thank the Light. It hasn't spread, or had not the last Master Fain knew."

"Battles interest me," Mat said, and Perrin added, "What did he say about them?"

"Battles don't interest me, Matrim," Tam said.
Or this:
Quote:
"I heard a story once," Mat said slowly, "from a wool-buyer's guard. He said the Dragon would be reborn in mankind's greatest hour of need, and save us all. "

"Well, he was a fool if he believed that," Perrin said firmly. "And you were a fool to listen." He did not sound angry; he was slow to anger. But he sometimes got exasperated with Mat's quicksilver fancies, and there was a touch of that in his voice. "I suppose he claimed we'd all live in a new Age of Legends afterwards, too."

"I didn't say I believed it," Mat protested. "I just heard it. Nynaeve did, too, and I thought she was going to skin me and the guard both. He said – the guard did – that a lot of people do believe, only they're afraid to say so, afraid of the Aes Sedai or the Children of the Light. He wouldn't say any more after Nynaeve lit into us. She told the merchant, and he said it was the guard's last trip with him."

"A good thing, too," Perrin said. "The Dragon going to save us? Sounds like Coplin talk to me."

"What kind of need would be great enough that we'd want the Dragon to save us from it?" Rand mused. "As well ask for help from the Dark One."
Or this:
Quote:
"I have wasted nothing, child." A small smile of satisfaction flitted across Moiraine's lips. "That last light was yours alone."

"It was?" Egwene exclaimed, then slid immediately back into glumness. "But it was barely there at all. "

"Now you are behaving like a foolish village girl. Most who come to Tar Valon must study for many months before they can do what you just did. You may go far. Perhaps even the Amyrlin Seat, one day, if you study hard and work hard."
Or this:
Quote:
At the base of the hill he studied the massive, flat rock outlined against the sky, jutting out the slope almost at the crest. There was an odd familiarity to the way the top of the huge slab seemed to form irregular steps, three up and one down. He climbed the short distance and felt across the stone, walking along it. Despite the weathering of centuries he could still feel four joined columns. He glanced up at the step-like top of the stone, towering over his head like a huge lean-to. Fingers. We'll shelter in Artur Hawkwing's hand. Maybe some of his justice is left here.
Or this:
Quote:
For a wonder, Mat was the only one who had been unhorsed. Rand trotted toward him, but Mat tossed a noose away from him with a shudder, gathered his bow, and scrambled into his saddle unaided, though rubbing at his throat.
Or this:
Quote:
"Inside? Of course, of course. Don't you worry, boy. Your Wisdom will take care of him. I've watched her work, since last night, and she has a deft touch and a sure skill. It could be a lot worse. Some died last night. Not many, perhaps, but any at all are too many for me. Old Fain just disappeared, and that's the worst of all. Trollocs will eat anything. You should thank the Light your father's still here, and alive for the Wisdom to heal."

Rand blotted out the words – He is my father! – reducing the voice to meaningless sound that he noticed no more than a fly's buzzing.
Or maybe even something as blatant as this:
Quote:
He found himself staring at the reflection of his own face, pale and shivering in the knife-edge cold. Ba'alzamon's image grew behind his, staring at him; not seeing, but staring still. In every mirror, the flames of Ba'alzamon's face raged behind him, enveloping, consuming, merging. He wanted to scream, but his throat was frozen. There was only one face in those endless mirrors. His own face. Ba'alzamon's face. One face.
But certainly not a prophecy.
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  #9  
Old 01-19-2011, 03:54 PM
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And of course, these are all obvious in retrospect, but to give you an idea of how to go about 'finding' theoretic foreshadowing...my brilliant Gawyn theory was based on this very innocent line:
Quote:
Betray? Gawyn Trakand, that word fits you as darkness fits the sun.
The idea being that Gawyn will betray her or someone else when the sun goes dark, and of course there are many things pointing to this being a distinct possibility in the near future, and there are still many ways for Gawyn to fulfill this supposed foreshadowing whether he kills Rand or not.

The idea is that this is the sort of foreshadowing that RJ loved to use, and he was very good at it.
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Old 01-19-2011, 10:32 PM
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New info:
Quote:
Matt Hatch
Readers, let's go HCFF on an "innocent" comment by @BrandonSandrson re: an AMoL foreshadowing in TGH, discuss! http://bit.ly/gMZvLI
Brandon
I've seen someone post on the innocent comment before, FYI. In fact, it was recent.
And Terez has sniffed at it before, I know.
I wonder what he's getting at here. It could be something as simple as the Perrin-crown guess being correct. He didn't technically deny it was that. It could be something else, but I'd rather not go crazy over trying to decide what of my theorizing he's read. The advantage might be in the fact that I rarely talk about TGH, lol. Unless it's something that has nothing to do with the actual quote and more to do with the theory it foreshadows...
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Old 01-20-2011, 12:54 PM
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Default On Gawyn's upcoming betrayal to a "Mother"; a Sister

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez View Post
And of course, these are all obvious in retrospect, but to give you an idea of how to go about 'finding' theoretic foreshadowing...my brilliant Gawyn theory was based on this very innocent line:

The idea being that Gawyn will betray her or someone else when the sun goes dark, and of course there are many things pointing to this being a distinct possibility in the near future, and there are still many ways for Gawyn to fulfill this supposed foreshadowing whether he kills Rand or not.

The idea is that this is the sort of foreshadowing that RJ loved to use, and he was very good at it.

Gawyn is currently under multiple Oaths to Egwene, Morgase, Elayne among others. That situation is the one, where Gawyn will be pushed to decide who to follow, if Egwene al'Vere and Morgase, Elayne decide to have an bloody dispute. Gawyn is caught in the middle.

Gawyn's tension inside is one between his Mother, Sister versus his new Wife to be.


Elayne never bend her knee to Egwene's position as "Mother". Elayne & her real Mother are the one to push Gawyn one way, while Egwene pulls the other. Either way unless Morgase & Egwene finally make-up in the end, Gawyn will be have to betray one of his Oaths: "Mother" versus "Mother".
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Old 01-20-2011, 03:36 PM
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I just read through chapter 6, 7 and 8. Man there's a lot of hints/forshadowing just in those three chapters alone. Long time since I reread the series that far back.

My fav scenes that I like to go back to are usually from TDR and forward. Around when Mat gets healed and Rand going for Tear. Perrin is boring as usual though. There about kicks off the second act for me.
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Old 01-20-2011, 09:50 PM
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Felix, that is one of the more reasonable theories I've seen you post! :P
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Old 01-21-2011, 12:11 AM
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Maybe this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TGH6
The windows, he thought desperately. He backed away from the door, clutching his sword before him in both hands. Even if the door holds, they can break in the windows. Why aren’t they trying the windows?

With a deafening metallic screech, one of the brackets pulled partly away from the doorframe, hanging loose on nails ripped a finger’s width out of the wood. The bar quivered from another blow, and the nails squealed again.

“We have to stop them!” Rand shouted. Only we can’t. We can’t stop them. He looked around for a way to run, but there was only the one door. The room was a box. Only one door, and so many windows. “We have to do something. Something!”
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Old 01-21-2011, 12:19 AM
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Perhaps this, WRT Selucia's basement plan:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TGH6
“The Horn! The Horn of Valere. It’s gone, chest and all.”

“But it was in the strongroom.”

“The strongroom was looted,” Ingtar said wearily. “They did not take much, except for the Horn. What they could stuff in their pockets. I wish they had taken everything else and left that. Ronan is dead, and the watchmen he had guarding the strongroom.”
Kind of a stretch, though.

This might count as ironic foreshadowing if my Dom Band idea's correct:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TGH8
You can gentle me, or kill me, or let me go, but I will not be a tame false Dragon on a Tar Valon leash.
Hm...
Quote:
Originally Posted by TGH8
Usually she could ferret out whatever he wanted to hide from her, but when he really wanted to be stubborn, she could more easily dig a brick out of a wall with her fingernails.

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Old 01-21-2011, 05:54 PM
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Brandon clarified a little bit further:

Quote:
Matt Hatch
Readers, let's go HCFF on an "innocent" comment by @BrandonSandrson re: an AMoL foreshadowing in TGH, discuss! http://bit.ly/gMZvLI
Brandon
I've seen someone post on the innocent comment before, FYI. In fact, it was recent.
Brandon
And Terez has sniffed at it before, I know.
Terez
Do you mean sniff as in turn my nose up at it? Or as in I got in the ballpark? Important distinction.
Terez
Also, I do not sniff.
Brandon
"Sniff" as in I've seen you poke at the line before, and ponder if it has meaning.

So, I'm thinking I know what I've poked at better than anyone else. And I'm thinking right now that the most likely answer is that it was my 4th guess - Perrin and the crown (and maybe also some High Chant, but whatever). I'm thinking this just because I so rarely poke at things in these few chapters. I mean, they are only a few chapters.

Another possibility is the 'shadow at noon' quote in ch. 2, but I think that is probably stretching the definition of 'just passed', since he had probably read that chapter the day before.

I will try to remember if I've picked at any other lines in the vicinity.
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Old 01-22-2011, 04:45 PM
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I feel fairly confident it's the Perrin thing. RJ did things like that constantly. There are lots of examples of characters thinking of unlikely things and saying them out loud as a joke and then five books later they actually happen.

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Old 01-22-2011, 05:53 PM
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I suspect Perrin is going to deliver an important speech.
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Old 01-22-2011, 06:40 PM
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It may just be that he will quote some of the prophecies, which are written in High Chant sometimes.
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Old 01-22-2011, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez View Post
It may just be that he will quote some of the prophecies, which are written in High Chant sometimes.
Doesn't feel important enough to be included in prophecy though. I think there's something more to it than just quoting some bits of prophecy.
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