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  #1  
Old 09-05-2016, 08:54 AM
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Is anyone here watching this? There are no official foreign releases yet so it's only available in Japanese, and you can find it fansubbed on the internet. But I know it's a popular show, so surely at least one person here is watching it.

Naz? I know you're more into 'serious' anime but IIRC you have at least some nostalgic fondness for DB.
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Old 09-05-2016, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Terez View Post
Is anyone here watching this? There are no official foreign releases yet so it's only available in Japanese, and you can find it fansubbed on the internet. But I know it's a popular show, so surely at least one person here is watching it.

Naz? I know you're more into 'serious' anime but IIRC you have at least some nostalgic fondness for DB.
I never watched dragon ball, but I do like anime, just not so much the neverending shonen style fighting series.

As an aside, does anyone else feel like the quality of anime series has sharply declined since the '90s and early aughts? Seems like it's been a long time since anything worth watching came out of Japan, with the only good cartoon (I wouldn't really call these anime style) shows that come out in recent years are all western - Archer, Venture Brothers, and Rick and Morty. Seems like a long time since any of the good anime studios (KyoAni and Shaft always seemed the two best) have produced anything decent. The last really great shows I can think of from Japan were Haruhi (even with the obnoxious shenanigans they pulled with its second season) and Lucky Star (so basically nothing since 2007) for KyoAni, or the Monogatari series and Puella Magi Madoka Magica for Shaft (which are at least sort of recent - 2011 for Madoka, everything after the first series of Bakemonogatari has been in decline). I wouldn't expect everything to be as good as the anime movies that Hayao Miyazaki made, or the manga based series from the various works of Rumiko Takahashi, but still, pretty much everything these days just sucks.
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Old 09-05-2016, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Terez View Post
Is anyone here watching this? There are no official foreign releases yet so it's only available in Japanese, and you can find it fansubbed on the internet. But I know it's a popular show, so surely at least one person here is watching it.

Naz? I know you're more into 'serious' anime but IIRC you have at least some nostalgic fondness for DB.
Haven't checked super. I've checked a few episodes of most DB *insert rest of title* and they have been seriously formulaic. It's practically the Eddings of Anime. Do one good, make a formula that doesn't include anything that made the first good and repeat that over and over again.

"Serious" doesn't really describe what I'm into. The tone of the series can be light hearted, dramatic, trajic, dark or down right perverted, but there has to be a working plot or at least boobs to distract you from the lack.

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I never watched dragon ball, but I do like anime, just not so much the neverending shonen style fighting series.

As an aside, does anyone else feel like the quality of anime series has sharply declined since the '90s and early aughts? Seems like it's been a long time since anything worth watching came out of Japan, with the only good cartoon (I wouldn't really call these anime style) shows that come out in recent years are all western - Archer, Venture Brothers, and Rick and Morty. Seems like a long time since any of the good anime studios (KyoAni and Shaft always seemed the two best) have produced anything decent. The last really great shows I can think of from Japan were Haruhi (even with the obnoxious shenanigans they pulled with its second season) and Lucky Star (so basically nothing since 2007) for KyoAni, or the Monogatari series and Puella Magi Madoka Magica for Shaft (which are at least sort of recent - 2011 for Madoka, everything after the first series of Bakemonogatari has been in decline). I wouldn't expect everything to be as good as the anime movies that Hayao Miyazaki made, or the manga based series from the various works of Rumiko Takahashi, but still, pretty much everything these days just sucks.
Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood is a masterpiece that beats the 90's stuff by leaps and bounds.

Space Battleship Yamato 2199 is a better space opera than most live-action stuff.

Black Lagoon is damn good.

There's more but I'd have to know your preferences.
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Old 09-05-2016, 12:47 PM
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Haven't checked super. I've checked a few episodes of most DB *insert rest of title* and they have been seriously formulaic. It's practically the Eddings of Anime. Do one good, make a formula that doesn't include anything that made the first good and repeat that over and over again.
Yeah, I can't really disagree with any of that. It's the kind of thing you only watch if you get attached to the characters. And while I enjoyed Eddings to an extent (read them several times until I couldn't stand the plot holes any more) I never liked his characters anywhere near as much as I like the characters of DB. They are awesome. I also love Toriyama's quirky gag style in general.

It took me a really long time to get into DB because the animation was terrible and the dialogue cliched, but eventually it grew on me and now I love it. Well, I have loved it for a long time; my DB love predates my WoT love, actually, though I was technically an adult by the time the dub started airing in the US.

I just watched FMA:B recently for the first time. I'd never watched the original anime; tried to get into it years ago but couldn't. And Brotherhood was also difficult to get into at first; it was difficult to get attached to the characters with the way they glossed over the early plot. But by the time I was halfway through, I was hooked.

I like Attack on Titan, though there are a few things about it that annoy me.

I have never had any desire to watch the other long-running anime like One Piece and Naruto.
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Old 09-05-2016, 01:03 PM
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Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood is a masterpiece that beats the 90's stuff by leaps and bounds.

Space Battleship Yamato 2199 is a better space opera than most live-action stuff.

Black Lagoon is damn good.

There's more but I'd have to know your preferences.
I didn't like Black Lagoon. I did watch Full Metal Alchemist, both the original version and the "fixed" Brotherhood version. They were both okay, but I didn't like either as much as anything I mentioned above. I haven't watched Space Battleship Yamato 2199, but I did watch quite a few of the older series and movies (Arcadia of My Youth, Galaxy Express 999, a few episodes each of Captain Harlock and the original Space Battleship Yamato, i.e. Star Blazers) by Leiji Matsumoto.

The anime that I first watched, and which generated my continued interest in the genre were things like Ranma, Akira, Vampire Hunter D, Kimagure Orange Road, and the Miyazaki films. Somewhat eclectic, but I tend to like slice of life types (like Lucky Star or Pani Poni Dash) or weird/fantasy (like Haruhi, the Miyazaki films, Escaflowne, Ranma and other Takahashi series). Other than Bakemonogatari, Madoka, and some Type-Moon Series (Tsukihime, Kara No Kyoukai, and Fate/Stay Night) there just hasn't seemed to be much of anything worth watching out of Japan in the last decade. The '90s and early aughts just seemed to have a lot more that captured my interest. At least there has still been a decent frequency rate of JRPG games.

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Old 09-05-2016, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Terez View Post
Is anyone here watching this? There are no official foreign releases yet so it's only available in Japanese, and you can find it fansubbed on the internet. But I know it's a popular show, so surely at least one person here is watching it.

Naz? I know you're more into 'serious' anime but IIRC you have at least some nostalgic fondness for DB.
Been watching it. No, I don't know why Future Trunks now has blue hair, and yeah, the art is a lot different than Z or even GT, but the current arc is pretty engaging. Especially after that last episode.

Ranma 1/2 is a good series, though the manga gives more character development (and has an actual ending part, sort of), but I wouldn't be opposed to it getting a reboot of sorts. DB got Super, Sailor Moon got Crystal (never watched original or this, but both being big series, you hear these things), so Ranma certainly should.

Konosuba is a fairly recent anime that makes fun of a lot of fantasy series tropes you see. Only 10 episodes, and animation is a little odd, but definitely one of the more recent series that is actually fun to watch.

Another is Working!! Has a bevy of quirky characters, with the final season actually wrapping up all the plot points quite well.

About DB being the "eddings" of anime; a lot of series took inspiration from it from the 90s on up until today. A lot of tropes seen in those, were more than likely done in DB/DBZ first.
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Old 09-05-2016, 01:53 PM
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Been watching it. No, I don't know why Future Trunks now has blue hair...
It's the one thing about his past that he managed to change. (This is an anime-only inconsistency, by the way. In the manga, Toyotaro implied that both Trunkses have the same color hair.)

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...and yeah, the art is a lot different than Z or even GT, but the current arc is pretty engaging. Especially after that last episode.
It was a pretty awesome episode. People who know more about animators than I do are raving about Naotoshi Shida, one of the key animators on ep 57, who is apparently responsible for the movie-quality stuff in that 2v2 fight. But of course Reddit is complaining about the power level inconsistencies (as if DB has ever been great about power level consistency). And now I'm stuck trying to explain time travel and multiverse theory to a bunch of people who can't wrap their heads around the simplest aspects of it, much less the more complicated ones.

I love DB.
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Old 09-05-2016, 02:28 PM
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Ranma 1/2 is a good series, though the manga gives more character development (and has an actual ending part, sort of), but I wouldn't be opposed to it getting a reboot of sorts. DB got Super, Sailor Moon got Crystal (never watched original or this, but both being big series, you hear these things), so Ranma certainly should.
A remake of Ranma would be weird, especially as the original was well done. Rumiko Takahashi has a few other quality series - Urusei Yatsura, Mermaid Saga, and Inuyasha were all good as well.

Quote:
Konosuba is a fairly recent anime that makes fun of a lot of fantasy series tropes you see. Only 10 episodes, and animation is a little odd, but definitely one of the more recent series that is actually fun to watch.

Another is Working!! Has a bevy of quirky characters, with the final season actually wrapping up all the plot points quite well.
I tried to watch Konosuba but couldn't get hooked into it. I've never watched Working!!, might at least be worth giving a try. I just can't think of much of anything in the past 4-5 years that was really worth watching all the way through, except Steins;Gate and Fate/Stay Night Unlimited Blade Works. Henneko and Oreimo were both somewhat entertaining, if somewhat messed up, a lot messed up in the case of Oreimo...
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Old 09-06-2016, 02:16 AM
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Working!! is a very good anime. Impressive Japanese cast. Oreimo was a surprisingly complex anime so what did you like about it? Depending on your answer you might like Oniai. You also might like B gata H kei.

Slice of life, huh. Well I usually go for light hearted comedy rather than drama but the best shows have a bit of both. Gekkan Shoujo Nozaki-kun is worth watching and the manga is worth reading. Mikakunin de Shinkoukei has a supernatural twist (not vampires), but it definitely counts as slice of life. Then there is Himouto! Umaru-chan. Gin no Saji or Silver Spoon is by the same artist as Fullmetal Alchemist, but a very different work. Bokura wa Minna Kawaisou is insanely good both the anime and the manga which goes a lot further and thus we hope for more anime.

More on FMA. It's misguided to call 2003 the original because Brotherhood is the one that is more true to the manga. Towards the end that is. 2003 was true to it until it caught up and instead of making tons of filler they decided to go for an ending of their own. Brotherhood speeds through what 2003 did at the beginning, so in a way they are both wrong, as 2003 has the wrong end and Brotherhood has the wrong start. Personally I can live with Brotherhood's beginning, but understand it when others can't.
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Old 09-06-2016, 06:06 AM
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More on FMA. It's misguided to call 2003 the original because Brotherhood is the one that is more true to the manga.
It is the original anime, though, despite the fact that it got ahead of the manga eventually. It's not misguided to say so. Calling it the original story would be misguided, even though it's true enough in the beginning.

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Towards the end that is. 2003 was true to it until it caught up and instead of making tons of filler they decided to go for an ending of their own. Brotherhood speeds through what 2003 did at the beginning, so in a way they are both wrong, as 2003 has the wrong end and Brotherhood has the wrong start. Personally I can live with Brotherhood's beginning, but understand it when others can't.
My impression is that only people who watched the original anime first are content with the beginning of Brotherhood. Everyone else I know who watched Brotherhood first had a really hard time getting into it, especially when it comes to relating to the characters. I almost didn't finish it. Might not have if I didn't have friends who wanted me to watch it, and sufficient free time.

When I was done, I regretting not having tried to watch a mix, starting with the original and switching to Brotherhood at the point when the original passed the manga. I don't know if that's particularly feasible, though; I don't know how to parse it but I suspect new content is mixed with old in the earlier episodes of Brotherhood. But I think I wouldn't have had a problem with rehashing the beginning when it came to that.
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Old 09-06-2016, 06:57 AM
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More on FMA. It's misguided to call 2003 the original because Brotherhood is the one that is more true to the manga. Towards the end that is. 2003 was true to it until it caught up and instead of making tons of filler they decided to go for an ending of their own. Brotherhood speeds through what 2003 did at the beginning, so in a way they are both wrong, as 2003 has the wrong end and Brotherhood has the wrong start. Personally I can live with Brotherhood's beginning, but understand it when others can't.
As Terez also pointed out, it depends on the emphasis and interpretation one gives to original. It obviously wasn't the truer of the two versions to its origin, but only because it ran past the original material upon which it was based and hence had no choice but to come up with some original content of its own in order to finish the series, much as Game of Thrones has been forced to do on HBO. I was mostly thinking of it as original, however, simply in the sense of being the first of the two anime versions. As for Oreimo, it was entertaining, but a bit too incest driven. Japan does have a weird fetish with incest, so it's often unavoidable in anime, but usually not so overtly so. The only other show you mentioned that even rang a bell was B Gata H Kei. Not really my cup of tea.
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Old 09-06-2016, 08:59 AM
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As for Oreimo, it was entertaining, but a bit too incest driven. Japan does have a weird fetish with incest, so it's often unavoidable in anime, but usually not so overtly so. The only other show you mentioned that even rang a bell was B Gata H Kei. Not really my cup of tea.
It depends on how you define incest. How close is the blood connection? Immediate family only? Cousins? Second cousins? Third?

Then there is the concept of inseki, which means a romantic and/or sexual relationship between people who are legally related but not by blood. There are many ways it can be wrong, but it isn't incest. Take any sibling-type incest story and alter it so that one of them was adopted. Another possible set up might be a young man and his parent's brother's wife. Would be adultery, but not incest. A recently popular set up has been relationships between children from previous marriages.

I don't see inseki as wrong in itself, but the circumstances might make an individual case wrong. And even then it might be the kind of wrong that adds oil to the fires of drama. If it's a case of adultery for example. Blood related people having sex is just twisted.

I'd say that Japanese storytelling has a thing for all forms of immoral relationships and incest is just one of them. The question is which ones are you okay with or are you pure as vanilla?
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Old 09-06-2016, 09:09 AM
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There's no incest in DB! (Unless you count fanfic.) It appears to be going that way in AOT, though. One female character seems torn between her adopted brother and her blood brother. I'd almost rather she ended up with the blood brother because at least she never met him until recently.
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Old 09-06-2016, 10:19 AM
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Should I guess that those other shows that you mentioned were more or the blatantly ecchi variety?
Just Oniai. The others are just slice of life. Bokura wa Minna Kawaisou has some fanservice moments but it's pretty tame and more makes fun of the concept of fanservice.
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There's no incest in DB! (Unless you count fanfic.) It appears to be going that way in AOT, though. One female character seems torn between her adopted brother and her blood brother. I'd almost rather she ended up with the blood brother because at least she never met him until recently.
If you mean Eren and Mikasa those feelings have been pretty obvious from the start. And what's wrong with ending up with your childhood friend?
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Old 09-06-2016, 10:24 AM
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I'm not going to try to moralize it; it just strikes me as a bit creepy because they definitely have a sibling vibe between them. Have you read the manga? Because it's in bits past the anime that the blood brother becomes an option. (I think he is her brother, but I'm not 100% positive and probably need to reread it.)
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Old 09-06-2016, 11:34 AM
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I'm not going to try to moralize it; it just strikes me as a bit creepy because they definitely have a sibling vibe between them. Have you read the manga? Because it's in bits past the anime that the blood brother becomes an option. (I think he is her brother, but I'm not 100% positive and probably need to reread it.)
Mikasa definitely has a thing for Eren. It might be one sided but that much is definite. I don't think she ever saw his parents as anything else than kind people who took care of her. Eren might see it differently, but that's drama for you. And yes I have read the manga. And I think they are cousins to some degree.
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Old 09-06-2016, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Nazbaque View Post
Mikasa definitely has a thing for Eren. It might be one sided but that much is definite.
I can see the implications, obviously, or I wouldn't have brought it up. But I wouldn't call it definite. She cares about him deeply, obviously, but nothing so far has indicated she's sexually attracted to him.
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Old 09-06-2016, 12:35 PM
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I can see the implications, obviously, or I wouldn't have brought it up. But I wouldn't call it definite. She cares about him deeply, obviously, but nothing so far has indicated she's sexually attracted to him.
She has a romantic interest in him, but young as she is it might not had reached a sexual level. Or that might have happened off panel. Mikasa is the type that doesn't broadcast her emotions. And iirc her parents died while avoiding the sex talk. Maybe the Jaegers never got to it either. It's entirely possible that none of them know about sex.
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Old 09-06-2016, 12:36 PM
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And if they haven't been told then they'll never have that kind of feelings.
I wonder why no one ever thought of that as a method for contraception. It would no doubt work amazingly.
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Old 09-06-2016, 12:36 PM
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How else do you differentiate between a deep sibling connection and a romantic interest?
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