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  #1  
Old 03-10-2017, 11:45 AM
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Default Meanwhile, While Everyone Is Outraged Over Healthcare...

https://www.genomeweb.com/policy-leg...rimination-law

Another bill is quietly advancing through Congress that would destroy genetic privacy.

WTF is wrong with the GOP???
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Old 03-10-2017, 12:09 PM
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Maybe they're all possessed by demons. It does seem to get pretty hard to find arguments to refute that theory, at least.
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  #3  
Old 03-10-2017, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
https://www.genomeweb.com/policy-leg...rimination-law

Another bill is quietly advancing through Congress that would destroy genetic privacy.

WTF is wrong with the GOP???
Can't see the article without registering. So different link or copy-paste please.

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Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
Maybe they're all possessed by demons. It does seem to get pretty hard to find arguments to refute that theory, at least.
That's insulting Gonzo. Demons have standards. They wouldn't touch GOP with a ten foot pole.
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  #4  
Old 03-10-2017, 02:05 PM
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Default

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics...ns-genes-bill/

Does this one work?

If not, maybe this one...

https://www.statnews.com/2017/03/10/...netic-testing/
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Old 03-10-2017, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
Those work just fine.

But the whole thing is pretty vague. If I understood this right the people we might refer to as "employers" want access to the medical information of their employees and specifically their genetic information. What I don't understand is why they want this information.
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Old 03-10-2017, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Nazbaque View Post
Those work just fine.

But the whole thing is pretty vague. If I understood this right the people we might refer to as "employers" want access to the medical information of their employees and specifically their genetic information. What I don't understand is why they want this information.
"Oh, you have the potential for some odd genetic issue? We ain't keeping you around, that'll cost us a fortune"

That's a start. Also, they can then turn around and sell that information...which is scary in itself.
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Old 03-10-2017, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Davian93 View Post
"Oh, you have the potential for some odd genetic issue? We ain't keeping you around, that'll cost us a fortune"

That's a start. Also, they can then turn around and sell that information...which is scary in itself.
And the latter part wouldn't be a crime?
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Old 03-10-2017, 06:33 PM
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And the latter part wouldn't be a crime?
Since when has that ever stopped anyone?
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Old 03-10-2017, 08:48 PM
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Since when has that ever stopped anyone?
The fact that something is illegal? Oh quite a few times. Naturally there are those it wouldn't stop just like people still get murdered in spite of all the laws against it. But there is a difference in a law that is inefficiently enforced and there not being a law at all. The first just requires some fine tuning while the other demands definite change before you can even get to the fine tuning.
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Old 03-11-2017, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Nazbaque View Post
The fact that something is illegal? Oh quite a few times. Naturally there are those it wouldn't stop just like people still get murdered in spite of all the laws against it. But there is a difference in a law that is inefficiently enforced and there not being a law at all. The first just requires some fine tuning while the other demands definite change before you can even get to the fine tuning.
That only matters if you don't have any money. If you got lots and lots of money don't matter how finely you tune the laws they'll be ignored if someone can make enough money off of it.

As the line in the song goes "everything's legal as long as you can convince the DA not to prosecute"...or something like that.
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Old 03-11-2017, 04:22 PM
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That only matters if you don't have any money. If you got lots and lots of money don't matter how finely you tune the laws they'll be ignored if someone can make enough money off of it.

As the line in the song goes "everything's legal as long as you can convince the DA not to prosecute"...or something like that.
Whereas if something is not illegal no-one will worry about how much it'll cost to pay the lawyers and if it's worth the risk of getting caught. Illegal activities carry the risk of punishment even if that punishment hits the wallet.

You can be as cynical as you want about this, but the plain fact is that you said that existance of a law wouldn't stop anyone from committing a crime. It's deplorable how many people it won't stop, but it does stop some so your statement is fundamentally false.
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Old 03-12-2017, 05:24 AM
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Whereas if something is not illegal no-one will worry about how much it'll cost to pay the lawyers and if it's worth the risk of getting caught.
Which is why the police never ever harass any innocent people at all. Why no one ever gets locked up only to be released a few days later with no charge and no ability to sue for wrongful arrest. Why, if you do get prosecuted for something that is not actually illegal, you don't need to bother hiring a lawyer, since the judge will throw out the case automatically and make the cops pay you for your lost time.

Or maybe you're just a tad idealistic.
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Old 03-12-2017, 06:10 AM
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Which is why the police never ever harass any innocent people at all. Why no one ever gets locked up only to be released a few days later with no charge and no ability to sue for wrongful arrest. Why, if you do get prosecuted for something that is not actually illegal, you don't need to bother hiring a lawyer, since the judge will throw out the case automatically and make the cops pay you for your lost time.

Or maybe you're just a tad idealistic.
Awww the cynic is so afraid of being naive he doesn't realise that he is still judging everything by the same metric even if it is the other way around. The flaw of the naive isn't in expecting the best but in expecting simple. Being a cynic is more pathetic than being naive since the latter has the excuse of inexperience. Cynics have gained the experience but failed to learn the lesson.

You for instance have learned about the flaws in the legal system and fool that you are advocate having no system whatsoever. You can't have perfect and in your disapointment refuse to try at all. The adult thing to do is to try for 90% of perfect. Or more. Or less. Depends on where you are at the moment and what improvement can be achieved.
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Old 03-12-2017, 07:10 AM
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Oh, I admit that having a system is almost always better than not having a system. I merely wanted to point out that your implicit assumption of perfection was not warranted.
People often do have good and solid reason to worry about being found doing things that are entirely legal. Denying that (as you did) is both naive and cynical (towards the victims of unwarranted harassment). Or maybe only cynical, if you did know that innocent people get ground up in the process now and then.
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Old 03-12-2017, 07:46 AM
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Oh, I admit that having a system is almost always better than not having a system. I merely wanted to point out that your implicit assumption of perfection was not warranted.
People often do have good and solid reason to worry about being found doing things that are entirely legal. Denying that (as you did) is both naive and cynical (towards the victims of unwarranted harassment). Or maybe only cynical, if you did know that innocent people get ground up in the process now and then.
Now I never said things like wrongful convictions don't happen. The point I've been making from the start is that if a person knows something is illegal they are likely to at least pause before the act. If they are convinced that something is not illegal their personal morals might still get in the way but they nevertheless don't expect to be arrested for it. It's not that the innocent have nothing to fear because they do. It's about how the lable "illegal" in itself makes people cautious and the lable "legal" gets them to relax. A phenomenon SBX sought to deny.

And I am neither naive nor cynical. I don't make assumptions based on what would or wouldn't be nice.
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Old 03-12-2017, 10:34 AM
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Deny? Nah. Playing up cynicism to a make a point? More likely. Being equal before the law? That's a little different. A black person with a gun is different than a white person with a gun. Law looks at them different.

Similar with these sorts of laws. It's information and data. If there are laws that say "bad corporation" they'd take their chances that either their not found put or that the penalty/fines/prison time will hit other people or will be less than the profits they make off of selling it.
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Old 03-12-2017, 05:55 PM
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Deny? Nah. Playing up cynicism to a make a point? More likely. Being equal before the law? That's a little different. A black person with a gun is different than a white person with a gun. Law looks at them different.

Similar with these sorts of laws. It's information and data. If there are laws that say "bad corporation" they'd take their chances that either their not found put or that the penalty/fines/prison time will hit other people or will be less than the profits they make off of selling it.
But the point still remains that even with this unbalanced system the lable "illegal" has an effect.

I am not saying everyone acts the same way. I am not saying the system isn't unbalanced. This is about the choices people make before the act.

You say you were making a point, but "Since when has that ever stopped anyone?" is a flawed statement in practically any meaning you might put to it. There are those almost mythical law abiding individuals who nevertheless count as anyone and there are those for whom it is merely a matter of pros and cons just as any legal activity. But even for the latter being caught in a legal mess is something to avoid if only because of the expense, so legality does matter and sometimes even stops them. Not always and not everyone, but some people sometimes and that proves the cynic wrong.

You were demonstrating one of two mentalities. "Naive is wrong, cynic is right" or "it doesn't matter if I'm wrong so long as I'm cynical and not naive". Ironically both are naive as well as wrong.
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Old 03-12-2017, 07:42 PM
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You were demonstrating one of two mentalities. "Naive is wrong, cynic is right" or "it doesn't matter if I'm wrong so long as I'm cynical and not naive". Ironically both are naive as well as wrong.
Or, as I said above, I was playing up the cynicism to make a point. Do I actually believe that everyone will disregard laws for self-interest? No, and the fact that I have to explain that confuses me.
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Old 03-12-2017, 10:46 PM
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Or, as I said above, I was playing up the cynicism to make a point. Do I actually believe that everyone will disregard laws for self-interest? No, and the fact that I have to explain that confuses me.
Doesn't matter what you actually thought. The post you made was a failure. On multiple levels as the very point you claim as your excuse was completely lost. You would have done better to claim it was joke after my first reply.

And you do have to explain it because I don't assume I know you. That would be an insult. And I would take offense at you assuming that I know you well enough to not need an explanation so if you did I'd like an apology. If you assume this of everybody then you are taking people for granted and should seriously take a look at your own relationships and consider if they perhaps deserve better from you.
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Old 03-13-2017, 09:25 AM
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Doesn't matter what you actually thought. The post you made was a failure. On multiple levels as the very point you claim as your excuse was completely lost. You would have done better to claim it was joke after my first reply.

And you do have to explain it because I don't assume I know you. That would be an insult. And I would take offense at you assuming that I know you well enough to not need an explanation so if you did I'd like an apology. If you assume this of everybody then you are taking people for granted and should seriously take a look at your own relationships and consider if they perhaps deserve better from you.
Can we get back to actual, serious issues at hand, and leave the petty semantics alone.

This breach of personal privacy is absolutely mind-boggling. Companies being able to pry into health habits is one thing (and something I generally disagree with), but to pry into genetic code that cannot be modified or chosen is incredibly dangerous territory.

Gattaca-esque: We regret to inform you that are only worth working this menial job- because of your genetic propensity for hypertension. We don't want you getting too stressed out, you understand? It is for your own good really. Actually you're welcome.

In this whole "experiment", the most disturbing thing for me to see is how many people either embrace these discriminatory orders (some border guards) or just shrug their shoulders (some of the general public). I know there are just as many, if not more, people resisting it. But I am dismayed at how easy it is to begin to reverse so many hard fought protections that are crucial to a civilized society.
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Last edited by Brita; 03-13-2017 at 09:40 AM.
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