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  #21  
Old 11-16-2010, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by dominominic View Post
You mean we can't trust the Father of Lies?
I wouldn't trust ANYONE in Randland.
Except maybe Mat. Yeah, Mat.
  #22  
Old 11-16-2010, 12:55 PM
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I wouldn't trust ANYONE in Randland.
Except maybe Mat. Yeah, Mat.
That's Coplin talk for you. Surely you would trust Bran al'Vere?
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  #23  
Old 11-16-2010, 01:57 PM
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I wouldn't trust ANYONE in Randland.
Except maybe Mat. Yeah, Mat.
I like the style of that Murandian king too.

Although when his serving man asked him what colour he'd like his new coat he did say, "I demand red!"

Whatever that means...
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  #24  
Old 11-16-2010, 02:35 PM
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Yes, I know. But that doesn't make it true, nor does it mean that RJ intended Ishamael to be redeemable.
He's not citing this theory as true, only that it is possible. I agree with him.

Just because you don't THINK it will happen doesn't mean it can't, Terez. I give this theory about 50 times greater chance of coming about than any of your recent "theories." Speaking of which, how did ToM work out for you? (I already know)
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  #25  
Old 11-16-2010, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Toss the dice View Post
He's not citing this theory as true, only that it is possible. I agree with him.

Just because you don't THINK it will happen doesn't mean it can't, Terez. I give this theory about 50 times greater chance of coming about than any of your recent "theories." Speaking of which, how did ToM work out for you? (I already know)
Wait, are we talking about this theory, or Terez's theories? And why are you asking questions to which you already know the answer?
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  #26  
Old 11-16-2010, 08:28 PM
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Default Trust Bran al'Vere?

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Originally Posted by HunterOTS View Post
That's Coplin talk for you. Surely you would trust Bran al'Vere?
Is he the man whose chromosomes are responsible for Egwene al' Vere?
If so then, Nah.
  #27  
Old 11-17-2010, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by dominominic View Post
I like the style of that Murandian king too.

Although when his serving man asked him what colour he'd like his new coat he did say, "I demand red!"

Whatever that means...
I don't know if this is in the book or not, and if it isn't its a funny joke; if it is, does anyone else see it as BS sneaking in and saying "I AM DEMANDRED"?
  #28  
Old 11-17-2010, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Crispin's Crispian View Post
Wait, are we talking about this theory, or Terez's theories? And why are you asking questions to which you already know the answer?
Silly dog, they are fighting. Or at least throwing snyde remarks at each other, which on the Internet is close to trench warfare.

On topic: I would like to see a redemption thing happen. Not very likely though. The only ones who would be candidates for something like that would be Asmo, Moridin and since ToM, perhaps Cyndane/Mierin. Asmo is dead, Moridin might be turned if he saw "the error of his logic", but he is pretty firm to his convictions, unless Jesus Rand can turn him around. Mierin has never really been a true pet of the DO. She made offers to Rand to rule together, fighting the DO. I think she was honest about that. Somehow maybe she might help Rand out in defeating the DO. Especially as it seems she has been broken by Moridin in ToM, unless it's a trap, but I don't think so.
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Last edited by Mort; 11-17-2010 at 08:11 AM.
  #29  
Old 11-17-2010, 09:22 AM
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Who knows, I'm still not convinced Sammael is dead yet Rand turns his back, and when he turns back around Sammael is gone and everyone assumes the man is dead??
  #30  
Old 11-17-2010, 09:44 AM
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Who knows, I'm still not convinced Sammael is dead yet Rand turns his back, and when he turns back around Sammael is gone and everyone assumes the man is dead??
RJ confirmed Sammael died in Shadar Logoth. Can't remember if he ever said he could be brought back though. Seems kinda hard if your soul gets eaten. He probably would be back already if he could have been.
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  #31  
Old 11-17-2010, 11:40 AM
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Ishy has mentioned that it's possible to turn the Creator's champion. (This what the Borderlanders' prophesy warned about) Wouldn't it then be logical for it to be possible to turn the DO's champion?

The argument against this is that Ishy's game only includes the Creator's champion but the Fisherking could be representation of both champions rather than just the Creator's champion as Ishy assumes.
  #32  
Old 11-17-2010, 11:55 AM
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RJ confirmed Sammael died in Shadar Logoth. Can't remember if he ever said he could be brought back though. Seems kinda hard if your soul gets eaten. He probably would be back already if he could have been.
I've heard RJ give the following comment on Sammael:
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ
Sammael is dead. He is dead. He is dead. He may be reborn again, but then he will not remember he was Sammael. He cannot be reincarnated. He is dead.
From that, I concluded that Sammael is dead, but I could of course be mistaken.
  #33  
Old 11-17-2010, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by SixPips View Post
I don't know if this is in the book or not, and if it isn't its a funny joke; if it is, does anyone else see it as BS sneaking in and saying "I AM DEMANDRED"?
Just a joke sir.
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  #34  
Old 11-17-2010, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Landro View Post
Ishy has mentioned that it's possible to turn the Creator's champion. (This what the Borderlanders' prophesy warned about) Wouldn't it then be logical for it to be possible to turn the DO's champion?
Perhaps it would have been before Shai'tan got the direct interface to his brain in the last book or so. I'm guessing it's too late now for Elan Morin Tedronai.

I wonder if Moridin can expand/shrink his body and cut off access to the Source the way Shaidar Haran can.
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  #35  
Old 11-18-2010, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
I've heard RJ give the following comment on Sammael:
From that, I concluded that Sammael is dead, but I could of course be mistaken.
Nope, I think that's pretty clear. In the Bible saying something three times shows the great resolution of the truth behind it, plus RJ tends to follow the oath "I will not lie to my fans because they will hunt me with a vengeance if I do."
  #36  
Old 11-18-2010, 07:38 AM
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Nope, I think that's pretty clear. In the Bible saying something three times shows the great resolution of the truth behind it, plus RJ tends to follow the oath "I will not lie to my fans because they will hunt me with a vengeance if I do."
Well, technically, if you assume that the "he" refers to Sammael, RJ said it four times. Which may throw some doubt on things once again.
If you assume that it does not refer to Sammael, then that raises interesting additional questions, which I will leave as an exercise for the reader.
  #37  
Old 11-23-2010, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Landro View Post
Ishy has mentioned that it's possible to turn the Creator's champion. (This what the Borderlanders' prophesy warned about) Wouldn't it then be logical for it to be possible to turn the DO's champion?

The argument against this is that Ishy's game only includes the Creator's champion but the Fisherking could be representation of both champions rather than just the Creator's champion as Ishy assumes.
This is how I think the story ends.

The Dark One spent 12 books trying to turn Rand, not kill him, and as Rand says in ToM, "He almost had me." The ultimate victory for the DO isn't breaking free; it's turning the champion of the light to evil.

Which leads me to believe that the greatest victory of the light would be to turn the DO's champion.

It's certainly been hinted at that Rand and Ishydin are two sides of the same coin, and Graendel remembers a time when Elan had real, legit feelings. Being beyond redemption doesn't mean being beyond repentance.

I also remember Ishydin musing to himself, in the sha'rah chapter, about never losing if you're playing both sides of the board. Certainly seemed like he was talking about more than just a game of chess.

In that chapter and several others, the character is written in a way that seems to convey a weariness with a fate he's lived out thousands of times.

Combine all of the above with Rand's epiphany that he's not a weapon, and the "One lives, one dies," and a whole slew of other prophesies/dreams/viewings, and I'd wager Ishy takes the road less traveled in AMoL.
  #38  
Old 11-24-2010, 12:57 AM
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I find Moridin to be the most interesting character in all of Randland. Certainly, he seems to be the only one that has gone to the shadow because of a sound rational reason and not out of a desire for power or immortality. A true philosopher, even if his position is one that most won't agree with.
  #39  
Old 11-24-2010, 04:17 AM
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The Dark One spent 12 books trying to turn Rand, not kill him, and as Rand says in ToM, "He almost had me." The ultimate victory for the DO isn't breaking free; it's turning the champion of the light to evil.
I do think that the ultimate victory for the DO would be breaking free, but in order to manage that, having the Champion of the Light help would be very beneficial*.

* "Beneficial" does not seem the right word. Maleficial might be better.
 

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