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Go Back   Theoryland of the Wheel of Time Forums > THEORYLAND STEDDINGS > Forum Archives > Archived - WoT Discussion Boards > Book 13: Towers of Midnight
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View Poll Results: Rate Towers of Midnight vs. The Gathering Storm
I liked ToM more than TGS. 95 49.22%
I liked them equally. 48 24.87%
I liked TGS more than ToM. 46 23.83%
I didn't care for either book. 4 2.07%
Voters: 193. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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  #61  
Old 11-08-2010, 11:40 PM
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In my humble opinion, this book was actually a pretty big letdown. I kept waiting for some earth shattering revelations and found basically none. Just a bunch more winding down until the series' merciful end.

Keeping in mind, I'm not just some WOT hater or something. Been reading these books for probably going on 15 years now. I liked The Gathering Storm a lot, actually.
  #62  
Old 11-09-2010, 09:43 PM
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I loved TGS the action held you in there although i wanted some more from other charcters.

TOM just finishes some plot line joins everyone up not really much more.

TOM has to short chapters that just hump all over the place you cant really get into 1 character for a bit because every 10 pages another character is in place.

And the 30 days mat had to waste before going into the tower what did he do nothing especially the last 16 all we got was testing the dragons as he was going to the tower im like what he didn't open the letter where did the 30 days go.

I found it great and a good part of the series but just to mainstream and the short chapters was annoying.
  #63  
Old 11-09-2010, 10:15 PM
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I don't know why books seven or eight are the logical cut off point for people giving up on the series. Those were great books, and they never even got to the awesomeness which was CoT. I feel played by amyloidosis, but I'll never feel played by RJ. I love RJ. I love Brandon too, I'm just no in love with his writing style.

I liked ToM more than tGS Tbh, I haven't even reread TGS yet, though I will do a full reread before aMoL. I think there was more RJ in the right places, or perhaps Brandon has just gotten better, but I definitely felt less cognitive dissonance wtf moments this time around.

I think some people were a bit outlandish in their expectations. If you've ever read a trilogy, you know what the middle book of trilogies is going to be about. Besides that, I think some things were cut, or held back to give aMoL a bigger impact when we read it, which is fine by me.

Let the Dragon ride once more upon the winds of time...
  #64  
Old 11-10-2010, 05:08 AM
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I voted equally, both were compelling reads and packed with action and surprises.

Nice bonus, trollocs get to use portal stones. I doubt if any of us saw that coming... Makes speculation about the book of translation interesting. Is the book like a portal stone a way to get to other realities? maybe it is needed to battle the use of portal stones.... does it contain a map of all known portal stones... or can you "block" portal stones in similar ways you get to block waygates?

man are we gonna like theorizing about this
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  #65  
Old 11-11-2010, 02:08 AM
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There be spoilers ahead. Cover the eyes of your aged grandmother.




i voted for tGS. i'm not done with ToM yet, I have about 100 pages left. i may shift my vote to the middle if there's an epic moment of epic awesomeness in the last 100 pages, but i doubt it. The only thing that's really hit me in this book is Hopper's final death. Nothing else comes close.

Galad not telling Perrin his judgment at the trial was pretty cool, though. Made up for Galad's character waffling during his conversation with Morgase.

Egwene manipulating the Hall was fun. Just like old times.

And everyone complaining about Elayne's reception of Perrin? What were you expecting, rainbows and lollipops? Her stance was completely logical given the knowledge she had. You may not like it, but it made sense. It was believable.

Rand in chapter 13, rushing from person to person tying up multiple plots then blubbering in Tam's shirt like a schoolboy with a skinned knee saying he's been bad, was not.

And if you think the Glossary was a definitive answer of who killed Asmodean, then you're not trying hard enough.
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  #66  
Old 11-15-2010, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Frenzy View Post

And if you think the Glossary was a definitive answer of who killed Asmodean, then you're not trying hard enough.
I agree with the Rand/Tam scene - thought it was forced. However, would you care to explain what you mean by the quoted section above? I'm pretty sure the glossary entries pretty much count as Word of God.
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  #67  
Old 11-15-2010, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TankSpill View Post
I agree with the Rand/Tam scene - thought it was forced. However, would you care to explain what you mean by the quoted section above? I'm pretty sure the glossary entries pretty much count as Word of God.
It says she was "responsible" for Asmo's death, but it also says she was responsible for the death of Arangar and we know who actually did the killing there. So you could easily work around that glossary entry if you really wanted to, though I think there are various interview quotes that would make this a lot harder.
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  #68  
Old 11-15-2010, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jokeslayer View Post
It says she was "responsible" for Asmo's death, but it also says she was responsible for the death of Arangar and we know who actually did the killing there. So you could easily work around that glossary entry if you really wanted to, though I think there are various interview quotes that would make this a lot harder.
I agree. While another Forsaken, Moiraine, or any other Lightfriend seem ruled out, other options are not. Say, Slayer for instance.

I've done a bit of a re-read, but hold to my initial feeling. Too much unbelievable actions. And not just stuff I found unbelievable, but stuff that diminished the characters. Kind of like Peter Jackson & Faramir: Verin screws up? Lan get's selfish with the LB on the horizon? Rand & Eggy seem to blow off most of a month AFTER the progress they made in tGS? Nothing on the Seanchan or BT? No help for Lan, from Rand, Eggy, or Nynaeve? I call BS on BS.

Not to mention the disappearance of 2nd level characters: Loial, all the Aiel, the Sea Folk, Dobraine, and Tuon off the top of my head. No real reunions for Mo?

Again, I'm not trying to Bash BS here, he took on a tough and thankless job, and I thank him for it, I just felt ToM was a letdown despite the really nice moments.

As someone else said, the best parts were the unexpected (Perrin/Hopper/Dreamspike), Avi's trip, Nynaeve's testing. And I really think it would have been better if Nynaeve would have failed and just went back to Rand or to Lan.
  #69  
Old 11-17-2010, 04:29 PM
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No contest. Towers of midnight was a massive disappointment. Too much filler. Not enough plot progression apart from moraine rescue which was flat as it was.

oh well one more book to go
  #70  
Old 11-18-2010, 03:13 PM
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More Mat = More Win
ToM was better
  #71  
Old 11-22-2010, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squocka View Post
I loved TGS the action held you in there although i wanted some more from other charcters.

TOM just finishes some plot line joins everyone up not really much more.

TOM has to short chapters that just hump all over the place you cant really get into 1 character for a bit because every 10 pages another character is in place.

And the 30 days mat had to waste before going into the tower what did he do nothing especially the last 16 all we got was testing the dragons as he was going to the tower im like what he didn't open the letter where did the 30 days go.

I found it great and a good part of the series but just to mainstream and the short chapters was annoying.
Agreed. But I loved ToM none the less. Whom ever did the chapter arrangements could have done a better job tho'. In past books we get a feel for a character which spans a section of the book. Here we get 3 POVs in a single chapter.

In past books, I'd skip over the Perrin or Elayne parts and just read the bits with Mat but here that would be impossible as things start on random pages in the middle of a chapter. And some of the chapters had wonky names.

Right- whining off my chest. I still voted this much better than TGS. Brandon has a much better grasp on the feel of the characters and where we are going with things in this book. It was very easy to immerse myself in the writing.

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  #72  
Old 11-22-2010, 06:56 PM
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Mat- very hard character to write as he is most everyone's favorite. No matter what, somebody will be ticked off at the way he was penned. And Mat is a tough personality as he is many contrasts rolled into one. Childish, yet dutiful, irreverent, slacker and general, rogue yet keeps his word. Tell me that it is not hard to find that balance. Everyone wanted to be Mat or marry him, or just hang out with him. Bottom line, Brandon is doing his best and I can live with the results, and Brandon has a much better grasp than in tGS.
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  #73  
Old 11-28-2010, 11:06 PM
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I liked them both.
TGS gave us fast moving plots (something that has been missing for quite a while).
ToM gave us some much needed catch up and still moved faster then several of the earlier books in the series.
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  #74  
Old 12-02-2010, 05:00 AM
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Eh, my last post was deleted, but I want to ask two questions.

What is arguably the most powerful force in all of Randland, the Black Tower, isn't worth figuring out in the 30 days of Rand? Unbelievable.

Fain is just gone? Perhaps the most important character going forward (maybe) is just ignored for books?

I felt like ToM was filler, and not even good filler. Nothing of note really happens and even some arcs we thought completed are reopened (Seanchan attacking the White Tower...AGAIN?!)

Way too much to do in the last book now.
  #75  
Old 12-12-2010, 04:04 PM
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It also depends on the characters a person favors and the initial impression a person forms reading Brandon doing Mat for the first time.

There was much Egwene and Mat stuff in tGS. TGS was also darker because, let's face it, Rand was still enwrapped in his aura of darkness. ToM we have a very Messiah like Rand going about righting past wrongs and fighting the DO at random points. Kinda reminds me of Caine in Kung-Fu.

ToM is also chalk full of Perrin still plodding until about 3-400 pages in. That was a tough go. Brandon was loyal to the character and writing pace, but that was still hard for us to read. But he did write in Hopper. Then again, he also killed Hopper

Both books did have good Nynaeve moments, ToM had the Lan moments tho'.

There was a lot more jumping around in ToM which made for a good pace, but hard to follow. I'd suggest rearranging the chapters but things switched POVs in mid chapter so that is pointless. In the end I am glad to have both as it means we are finally moving on.
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  #76  
Old 12-14-2010, 07:33 AM
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I enjoyed it, but not as much as TGS. TGS wrapped up a lot of plotlines that needed wrapping up, and I loved the Rand plotline. When it became clear that the DO hoped to win by corrupting Rand, and then reading how Rand turned back to good at the last second, I was looking forward to seeing the "new" rand in ToM.

And although the new Rand didnt disappoint, there just wasnt enough of him. He was in too few scenes, and for too short a time, and instead we got to read about palace intrigue with Elayne, Egwene being bitchy and arrogant, Perrin moping about not wanting to be a leader, and Faile scheming. I enjoyed some parts of Perrin's narrative, such as when he forges his hammer, and the wolfdream sequences, and fights with Slayer, but the moping about leadership and worrying about losing himself has been going on for, what 13 books? It shouldnt take 13 books to wrap that up.

Likewise Taim and the BT - why is this unresolved so many books later? Right now I would rate the book a B-, if it had wrapped up the BT story I would have given it a B+ or maybe an A.

BS still did a good job, it still moved things forward, but not as much as I would have liked. Some people have already complained that it was rushed - personally after 11 books of RJ, BS is a refreshing change. If I never have to read about cream silk bodices again I will die happy.

I'd be interested to see how BS plans to wrap aMoL - has he closed enough plot threads that the LB can take place and be given the space it deserves? Or is he going to have to butcher threads to make everything fit in the last book, or leave things out?
  #77  
Old 01-23-2011, 05:23 PM
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I thought the Towers was the better book, except where Perrin and the B.are rewarded for being arrogant and ignorant. They should both have been beheaded for treason. I guess Rand needs Perrin in the last battle tho, if he will bother to go, it doesn't interfere with anything the B wants, and he thinks it is worthwhile.

IMO, the first four books were great, and then they went down hill fast. They are still my favorite books, I just read what I want in them and ignore Elayne and Perrin stories. I can't wait for the end. It has been painful, and I will be happy when it ends, however it ends.
  #78  
Old 02-04-2011, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faedryth View Post
Fain is just gone? Perhaps the most important character going forward (maybe) is just ignored for books?
Honestly, I don't think any characters in the book have any idea that Fain is as important as he is - we only know and suppose because we're privy to POVs that Rand, Egwene, Moridin, and others are not. I imagine Rand's going to be in for one hell of a surprise when Fain shows up at the last battle. I think most people just think he's a bit of a nutjob. It is probably even reasonable to assume that most people who knew about Fain's relationship to Shadar Logath now believe him to be dead, with the evaporation of the city and all.
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  #79  
Old 02-24-2011, 04:48 AM
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was finding out that the Aiel are reduced to rubble.
 


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