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  #81  
Old 04-05-2011, 12:47 AM
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Weiramon Weiramon is offline
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Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
Actually, no. You're all right; you've convinced me now. Egwene is a HORRIBLE person. Frankly I'm surprised she hasn't turned to the Shadow already, she's that evil, mean, selfish, spiteful and corrupt.
Aye, turned to the Shadow. Best she be stilled and executed.

It would not be a suprise if some Dreamer had foreseen her beheading with a sword.
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  #82  
Old 04-05-2011, 02:26 AM
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Rand al'Fain Rand al'Fain is offline
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Aye, turned to the Shadow. Best she be stilled and executed.

It would not be a suprise if some Dreamer had foreseen her beheading with a sword.
Hey Weiramon, I just got news that the Dragon Reborn is putting you under the command of an Illianer commoner foot soldier.
  #83  
Old 04-06-2011, 12:06 AM
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Burn my eyes, better to be sent charging into the Pit of Doom on the back of a flaming goat than serve under a swamp-dwelling commoner who wouldn't know the front end of a horse from its. . . rear!
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  #84  
Old 04-06-2011, 12:35 AM
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Rand al'Fain Rand al'Fain is offline
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Burn my eyes, better to be sent charging into the Pit of Doom on the back of a flaming goat than serve under a swamp-dwelling commoner who wouldn't know the front end of a horse from its. . . rear!
You've been transferred to being a pikemen as well. So, no more horses except when facing a charge.

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  #85  
Old 04-06-2011, 09:52 AM
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Feel the need to comment on the confusion between Democracy and Democratic Leader.

The term Democratic Leader doesn't refer to the fact that the leader is acting in a Democratic way, but instead refers to the fact that they are the leader of a Democracy, and the only way to get a Democracy to do what you want them to do is to convince them that is the best course of action (as opposed to a dictator {benevolent or otherwise} who can direct via force). This is where the manipulation comes in, because your actions are specifically to change the opinion of the governed, even if it's done with good intentions, openness, and honesty, you're still manipulating people to come around to your point-of-view.
  #86  
Old 04-06-2011, 12:24 PM
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But if you do the manipulating by telling lies, so that you can eventually end up as their dictator (which the Amyrlin Seat is), is it then really as democratic as you think?
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Old 04-06-2011, 04:22 PM
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The key here is the "governed" part of the whole deal. The Wise Ones are not part of the WT's organization, and they wish to never become part of it. So however they are treated [democracy or dictatorship] is irrelevant, because they are not subjects to the WT, they see themselves as a separate entity.

For a person to become a democratic leader they will need to be voted/chosen to fill that position, and after that what they do can include manipulation since that's just part of politics.

But in the current situation two friends are dealing with each other, and in that particular dynamic manipulation should have no place. The party that is dishonest and manipulating in a friendship is the one betraying the friendship.
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Old 04-06-2011, 07:20 PM
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Ugh. This is the problem with saying you're not going to post in a thread and then still checking it. Lesson learned.

Lightning, I think you're blowing it up out of proportion a little bit. All Egwene has done so far, at very worst, is think about manipulating the Aiel to tie them to the Tower, not actually take any steps to maneuver them to do so. Her "ribbons" could literally be, "So how about signing up to train WT Novices as Wise One's then? I promise to bake you an ENORMOUS cake!" All she's suggested is that there will be soft ties between the WT and the Aiel... and to be honest, the Aiel would be daft not to take it.

As I said before, re-reading TEOTW after reading this thread I can already point out two or three examples of Egwene being a huge bitch, and I'm only halfway through, but I'm afraid this is a bad example, in my opinion.
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Old 04-06-2011, 10:27 PM
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Sorry if I'm getting a little melodramatic. I've just always been very big on 'intentions', and to me it seems like Egwene is just getting started with the WO, and laying the groundwork for her plans. Although it might all turn out to be a friendly mutual thing in the end. Who knows, we might never find out.
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