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  #41  
Old 06-20-2011, 09:27 AM
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1. Not really a question, but the OP strength list would be nice to have.

2. Do Aes Sedai bonded to Asha'man get any of the usual Warder benefits like quicker healing and ability to go without sleep/food for an extended period of time?

3. What do smallclothes look like? Are they more like boxers or briefs?

4. Why did Isam merge with Luc? How? Was one or both dead at the time?

5. Was Egwene meant to be a disliked character, or did fandom respond to her character in an unforeseen way?

(I'm not trying to start another Egwene debate here, and I know there are also fans who like Egwene. But I think it's fair to say that a significant portion of fandom dislikes her, and am genuinely curious what Team Jordan thinks of the backlash against her character. Did they anticipate that at all?)

6. Are any of the characters besides Rand the reincarnation of a famous historical figure?
  #42  
Old 06-20-2011, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terez View Post
I think he was saying he wants to finish his own re-read before posting theories.
That is what I was saying - I'm at the very end of TFOH if anyone was interested. I feel I need to refamiliarise myself with the books before posting any new theories.

With that in mind, Unreasoner, I think I disagree with you about Mashadar. All we know about the residents of Aridhol was that they were trying to come up with something that would use "the weapons of the shadow to fight the shadow". You may well have a quote which can defeat this, but it would make sense to me if that weapon actually was Mashadar, which was then released, by accident, upon the city, and wiped out the residents. That same freak accident may well have turned Mordeth into his evil spirit form which was then able to escape by merging with/possessing Padan Fain. But "a weapon of the shadow to fight the shadow" sure sounds like Mashadar itself to me.
  #43  
Old 06-20-2011, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Sammael View Post
That is what I was saying - I'm at the very end of TFOH if anyone was interested. I feel I need to refamiliarise myself with the books before posting any new theories.

With that in mind, Unreasoner, I think I disagree with you about Mashadar. All we know about the residents of Aridhol was that they were trying to come up with something that would use "the weapons of the shadow to fight the shadow". You may well have a quote which can defeat this, but it would make sense to me if that weapon actually was Mashadar, which was then released, by accident, upon the city, and wiped out the residents. That same freak accident may well have turned Mordeth into his evil spirit form which was then able to escape by merging with/possessing Padan Fain. But "a weapon of the shadow to fight the shadow" sure sounds like Mashadar itself to me.
Mashadar didn't actually show up until after the residents wiped each other out.
So while Mash didn't kill them, IMO it's very likely their deaths were part of its creation.
  #44  
Old 06-20-2011, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finnssss View Post
Mashadar didn't actually show up until after the residents wiped each other out.
So while Mash didn't kill them, IMO it's very likely their deaths were part of its creation.
Do you actually have the quote to prove that? To me, the "Mashadar as weapon" theory seems rather neat - it certainly explains a lot, rather than just vague evil and suspicion reaching boiling point. Of course, RJ is as likely to go for one as the other.
  #45  
Old 06-20-2011, 02:17 PM
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In fact, reading through the interview database, there are some quotes that seem to support my idea:

Quote:
The taint on Shadar Logoth did not come from the Dark One. The taint was created by humans, who believed that they must do whatever was necessary, anything that was necessary to defeat the Shadow. And because they would accept no limits to what they would do, to what could be done, to what needed to be done, they created their own destruction.
Emphasis mine. From this quote, it sounds like the people of Aridhol created something which destroyed them, rather than destroying each other directly in some sort of frenzied mass murder. This could be either the taint on SL generally or Mashadar, but while the taint is shown to create suspicion and outright paranoia, we know Mashadar directly kills.

Quote:
Brandon: Yeah, he wanted to defeat the Dark One and he felt that he could find other ways to do it. He originally was good. He did not…he wasn’t this terrible person to begin with, but he was looking to defeat the Dark One, to find a way to defeat the Shadow. And he looked into a lot of things he shouldn’t have looked into. There are evils that are not necessarily directly related to the Dark One, though everything evil kind of has…just as there are goods that are not related necessarily to the One Power…we are talking much as Perrin runs with wolves. This is a thing older than…there are other evil things that are old in a similar way.
Matt: Is the assumption then that he found one of these?
Brandon: He did.
Matt: He found one or multiple?
Brandon: He found many things of darkness. There is one in specific that is driving him, but he knew too much. He found things he should not have gotten into and that is what turned him into…when he got there he was already corrupt. He still thought he was doing a good work. He still thought, 'We are going to raise this kingdom up and it is going to become this bastion against the Shadow', but he was already by then corrupted.
Matt: Is this same corrupting influence what corrupts everyone through the dagger itself?
Brandon: Yeah. Through him, yes. And even through his presence.
Mordeth found a thing of evil that created the suspicion surrounding Aridhol. This does not appear to be even the same thing as Mashadar. Mashadar is an evil mist that kills things, not a paranoia-inducing taint. In addition, Mashadar appears to seek out Shadowspawn before humans.

Mashadar fits the bill of a weapon of the Shadow designed to fight the Shadow perfectly, and would also perfectly fit the description of something that the people of Aridhol created that was also their own destruction.

Also bear in mind that much of the information we have on Aridhol in TEOTW came from Moiraine. Here's what RJ had to say about Aes Sedai information relating to Aridhol:

Quote:
What Verin and Moiraine thought was incorrect; they were extending it too far. It is the one of things you may have noted in the books. Aes Sedai often believe they know more than they actually know.
  #46  
Old 06-20-2011, 02:24 PM
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They created their own destruction by accepting and perpetuating suspicion and extremism, created by mordeth. Mashadar didn't show up until everyone was dead. Encyclopaedia seems to have a resource.
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  #47  
Old 06-20-2011, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unreasoner View Post
They created their own destruction by accepting and perpetuating suspicion and extremism, created by mordeth. Mashadar didn't show up until everyone was dead. Encyclopaedia seems to have a resource.

The source is RJ from aCoS signing report actually.
  #48  
Old 06-20-2011, 02:53 PM
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I should have said, it is stated outright by the ewot, and so they either have a source or are quite cocky.
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  #49  
Old 06-20-2011, 07:32 PM
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I'm sure I'll think of more to ask Team Jordan, but right off the top of my head:

Was it impossible for Ishamael to channel the One Power (Saidin, in his case, of course) while he was still partially sealed in the Bore?

I've never seen this addressed in all the interviews/questions I've read on this site (and others), and I'd like to comment further on this, but will hold my tongue for a response from someone that has a good idea what the answer might be. Obviously he could channel the True Power while still sealed (and that makes intuitive sense if you think about it), so please don't assume that I'm asking if Ishy was effectively neutered entirely behind that barrier - that isn't what I mean.

Last edited by the_collective; 06-20-2011 at 07:34 PM.
  #50  
Old 06-20-2011, 08:39 PM
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Default Fain would-be toy Sammael is inferior.

Quote:
Originally Posted by looqas View Post
What re-read? Mine? You got it all wrong if it. My personal re-read of the ToM is just that. No rules or regulations there. I'm not aware of other re-reads being discussed lately.

Interesting point. Fain controlling some Forsaken via his love tentacles.

I am amused by the idea of the creature formerly known as Padan Fadan Mordeth controlling an Forsaken channeling powers.... However there is a huge glaring problem, in terms of plot outcomes.


If the 'Dream Worlds' and the 'True World' are merging; the powers of Saidar and Saidin are inferior to the power of belief, thought and a strong dreamer's dreams.



How do reader's know this as a fact?
  1. Nynaeve's Accepted Test, where she altered time and events, with thought.
  2. Perrin's interactions with Egwene al'Vere during a dream conflict over Tar Valon (ToM book). Thought is superior to saidar created balefire weave.

Recollect this scene from Nynaeve's Accepted Test?

Quote:
Abruptly there were clouds in the sky, threatening billows of gray and black. Lightning leaped from the cloud, straight for Nynaeve’s heart.

It seemed to her, just for a heartbeat, as if time had suddenly slowed, as though that heartbeat took forever. She felt the flow inside her—saidar, came a distant thought—felt the answering flow in the lightning. And she altered the direction of the flow. Time leaped forward.

With a crash, the bolt shattered stone above Aginor’s head. The Forsaken’s sunken eyes widened, and he tottered back. “You cannot! It cannot be!” He leaped away as lightning struck where he had stood, stone erupting in a fountain of shards.


The Great Hunt, Chapter 23 "The Testing" -- Nynaeve al'Meara point of view, fighting Aginor in a Dream like World, during Accepted Test.

Appearance is an illusion.
Thought is reality.
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  #51  
Old 06-20-2011, 08:54 PM
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You know I'm actually in agreement with a lot of that. I always thought if a channeler was severed without knowing they would be able to still channel in tar, and possibly if they did know, if they were aware of the possibility and had enormous strength of will.

Three questions

Could a terangreal be made that gives its user tar powers within some region of the real world?

What about one that could siphon off the taint, either by storing it up to some finite limit or blocking it entirely?

Since one can enter tar bodily, could they also use it for interworld travel? Maybe fetch extra ogier, channeler, grolm.

I like this thread. Some questions seem a little beyond the fandom's ability to answer.
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  #52  
Old 06-21-2011, 06:08 PM
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Another question (in addition to my unaddressed Ishamael question from above) I just thought of:

Is it possible to use Need in the real world, as is done in Tel'aran'rhiod?

Moiraine states the Eye of the World can be found in this way, but it seems to be an effect of the Green Man (and/or his stewardship of the Eye), not the Pattern:

Quote:
TEotW: Chapter 49 "The Dark One Stirs"

"The Green Man senses need, and there can be no need greater than ours. Our need is the hope of the world."
I believe we have evidence of this being used elsewhere in the series, but only by LTT/Rand due to his close connection to the Pattern, who I believe may have a Talent for it (conveniently enough, he does just this - while channeling, no less, if the "hot pinpricks" and "burning" bones he felt during this experience are anything like the "freezing" bones and "prickled" skin he felt every other time he channeled during this book - in order to find the Eye in the first place), but I'll save all that for another post. Without a "yes/no/RAFO" from Team Jordan on this, it's all idle speculation.
  #53  
Old 06-21-2011, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_collective View Post
Another question (in addition to my unaddressed Ishamael question from above) I just thought of:

Is it possible to use Need in the real world, as is done in Tel'aran'rhiod?
Wasn't that how Verin figured out where she had to wait for Mat?

For that matter, it may also be how Ishamael and Lanfear managed to track ta'veren.

And it may be at the core of Mat's random walk method of finding things.
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Old 06-21-2011, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
Wasn't that how Verin figured out where she had to wait for Mat?

For that matter, it may also be how Ishamael and Lanfear managed to track ta'veren.

And it may be at the core of Mat's random walk method of finding things.

Well, if any of these are true, I'd certainly be wrong about LTT/Rand being the only one able to use it. I'm certainly going to look into all of this further, myself...
  #55  
Old 06-21-2011, 06:42 PM
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I think strong enough need is reflected in tar, whether the "needer" is there or not. The threads tugging from ta'veren may in actuality be tugging at reflections in tar, and a person is being tugged towards what tar needs them to be, to their reflection. It has been theorized that the green man was in a pocket in tar, and Lanfear and ishamael spent enough time there they might be able to track any tugging.

For verin, I think it was more deduction on her part for tracking mat. Maybe mat's need drew her out and held her, but all she knew was that she was being drawn and held.

Interesting question re ishamael. Likely he only used the TP anyway, but that is no answer. An answer to this could shed some light on the nature of the seal.
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Old 06-21-2011, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unreasoner View Post
Interesting question re ishamael. Likely he only used the TP anyway, but that is no answer. An answer to this could shed some light on the nature of the seal.
Perhaps so. I was more concerned with the nature of Ishy/Moridin's extreme addiction to the TP. If he was unable to use the OP at all for 3000 years, yet still had to get things done, I would think that he used the TP enough to warrant a total dependency. This would imply that, even though Ishy/Moridin is now free, it never even occurs to him to use the OP; in which case there is no WAY Moridin could BE Taim, despite my previous inclination to believe this is the case.

I'm very curious about all of this.
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Old 06-22-2011, 01:50 AM
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Default Affinity and Ta'veren pull, as causal mechanisms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GonzoTheGreat View Post
Wasn't that how Verin figured out where she had to wait for Mat?

For that matter, it may also be how Ishamael and Lanfear managed to track ta'veren.
Need alone?

How about a combination of "affinity" and "ta'veren pull"?


Verin has repeated healed Mat Cauthon across the series, in:
  • Fal Dara, linked with Siuan, Moiraine, Leane (TGH,Ch7)
  • Cairhien (TGH,Ch31)
  • Falme to Tar Valon, months long journey with Egwene, Hurin, Nynaeve, Elayne, Mat.
  • Tar Valon, separating Red Ruby Dagger from Mat Cauthon(TDR,Ch18): linked with Alanna, Brendas, Leane, Serafelle, Alviarin Freidhen, Sheriam, Verin, Anaiya, and one other.


Lanfear healed Rand at Falme, Min point of view, thus re-creating a connection to him. Once called an "affinity" by Moiraine.

Quote:
“I will go further,” Moiraine said when Nynaeve kept silent. “You used the Power to Heal either Perrin or Egwene at some time. An affinity develops. You can sense the presence of someone you have Healed. In Baerlon you came straight to the Stag and Lion, though it was not the nearest inn to any gate by which you could have entered. Of the people from Emond’s Field, only Perrin and Egwene were at the inn when you arrived. Was it Perrin, or Egwene? Or both?”

“Egwene,” Nynaeve mumbled. She had always taken it for granted that she could sometimes tell who was approaching her even when she could not see them; not until now had she realized that it was always someone on whom her cures had worked almost miraculously well.


The Eye of the World, Chapter 21 "Listen to the Wind" -- Nynaeve point of view; with Moiraine and Lan

Previous to that scene, Lanfear healed Rand's hand in a Mirror World (Rand pov).
Lanfear in all likelihood had questioned Verin Sedai, before Hurin, Loial and Rand were pulled into a Mirror World at a camp site Ingtar picked.
Quote:
For once, Ingtar called a halt to the day’s march with the sun still golden above the horizon.


The Great Hunt, Chapter 11 "Glimmers of the Pattern" -- Rand point of view, with Uno, Ragan, Masema, Hurin, Loial, Mat Cauthon, Perrin among others.

Whereas, Ishamael/Moridin was able track Rand al'Thor using Animals, Shadowspawn, and Darkfriends, in The Eye of the World book.

Separately, Padan Fain was used as an individual to mark the three ta'veren boys for Moridin. Afterwards being identified and marked by Fain, Moridin was able to find their dreams.

--------------------------------------------------------------------


Who should also have an "affinity" with both Mat Cauthon and Perrin?
  • Leane
  • Siuan
  • Moiraine
  • Nynaeve
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  #58  
Old 06-22-2011, 01:56 AM
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I always feel like I'm in an ashram when I read your posts...
But I think she would have to be pretty close for an affinity to play much of a role. Solid point nonetheless
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Old 06-22-2011, 04:36 AM
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The point becomes a bit less solid when you consider the fact that Verin was not drawn towards where Mat was, but instead towards where he was eventually going to be.
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Old 06-22-2011, 09:23 PM
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Default Amyrlin Anghara: a mystery?

Amyrlin Anghara: a mystery?


During a search of information about one historical Queen Rhiannon (four references to up KoD), I came across an odd character memory observation from Mat's point of view.


Who was an Amyrlin Seat called Anghara, during the Free Years era? Where is her reborn soul now?

Quote:
Like Isebele of Dal Calain, who had made the Amyrlin Anghara come to her. That was one of the old memories; Dal Calain had vanished in the Trolloc Wars.


A Crown of Swords, Chapter 16 "A Touch on the Cheek" -- Mat Cauthon point of view; with Tylin Quintara, by the Grace of the Light, Queen of Altara, Mistress of the Four Winds, Guardian of the Sea of Storms, High Seat of House Mitsobar
For some reason, the names of Elayne (Isebele?), Egwene (Anghara?), and Fortuona come to mind in particular, as possible candidates.


Can Team Jordan give readers a further hint or clue, about Isebele and Amyrlin Anghara current identities, in one of the two WoT books to be published in the near future?



Queen Rhiannon
In terms of the historical Queen Rhiannon references given, both Fortuona and Elayne characters and situations are parallel to, what little is known of her.
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algarin, arangar, demandred, fain, mashadar, mordeth, sammael, shadar logoth


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